Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Wayne Fox on March 27, 2012, 01:54:49 pm

Title: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: Wayne Fox on March 27, 2012, 01:54:49 pm
So I'm remaking most of my profiles. My current ones were all built with PM5, now I'm using i1profiler with the  iSis.  Anyone have any good tips on the best settings for the perceptual intent choices when creating the profile?  Are the two defaults similar to other settings such as PM5 Logo Colorful?  Any tips or links to articles appreciated.
Title: Re: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: digitaldog on March 27, 2012, 02:18:30 pm
The older settings (Colorful for example) are not identical since the entire engine is new (and better). But they are a good start. Depending on how much you want to futz around, you may be frustrated to find that with all the sliders, and the huge granulites values they provide, they donít do that much. Iíve argued with X-Rite (among others) that IF you supply a slider with a scale that goes from 1 to 100, I expect to measure, let alone see a difference between a value of 1 and a value of 5 or 10. Not the case here. Begging the question, why not make the slider go from 1 to 10?
Title: Re: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: Rhossydd on March 27, 2012, 02:26:47 pm
why not make the slider go from 1 to 10?
Ever seen Spinal Tap ? ;-)
Title: Re: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: Wayne Fox on March 27, 2012, 08:10:38 pm
Thanks Andrew.  I was hoping you would offer some advice.

I re-read your article yesterday, noting where you had discussed the issues of the sliders, so that prompted the question. Glad to confirm the presets are a good place to start.
Title: Re: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: Jalok on April 07, 2012, 07:41:11 am
Thanks Andrew.  I was hoping you would offer some advice.

I re-read your article yesterday, noting where you had discussed the issues of the sliders, so that prompted the question. Glad to confirm the presets are a good place to start.

Could you please tell me what's the preset for perceptual rendering settings at profile settings panel? Here when it's loaded for the first time I have 0 values for all the 3 parameters: contrast, saturation and neutralize gray. It's the same as clicking Load and select default.sxf. But when re-select Custom, i1Profiler gives me 0, 0, 50 for those parameters. Which one is default?
Title: Re: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: digitaldog on April 07, 2012, 11:45:38 am
Could you please tell me what's the preset for perceptual rendering settings at profile settings panel? Here when it's loaded for the first time I have 0 values for all the 3 parameters: contrast, saturation and neutralize gray. It's the same as clicking Load and select default.sxf. But when re-select Custom, i1Profiler gives me 0, 0, 50 for those parameters. Which one is default?

For Perceptual, there are two presets in the popup menu (so two defaults) or anything different which come up as custom.
Title: Re: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: Jalok on April 08, 2012, 07:10:34 am
For Perceptual, there are two presets in the popup menu (so two defaults) or anything different which come up as custom.

There're also two custom settings. When loaded, the Profile Settings page shows 0 for Neutralize Grays. When click on Custom and re-select it, this parameter changes to 50. I suspect this (50) is the value intended to be custom one, since it's suggested at help's column. If that's true, I don't understand why X-Rite fixed other values into default.sxf file.
Title: Re: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: digitaldog on April 08, 2012, 12:08:36 pm
There're also two custom settings. When loaded, the Profile Settings page shows 0 for Neutralize Grays. When click on Custom and re-select it, this parameter changes to 50. I suspect this (50) is the value intended to be custom one, since it's suggested at help's column. If that's true, I don't understand why X-Rite fixed other values into default.sxf file.

There is much to misunderstand about certain settings and the programming mindset in i1Profiler!

Why for example do they love the 400 patch set? EVERYTIME you move into that workflow, it is set for you instead of your last used settings. There are simply dozens of similar oddities in the application like this. While I think the end results of the product are very good, I am continuously reminded that the methodology used to code this product seems to be done by people whoíve never really used the product in any kind of production environment.
Title: Re: Settings for perceptual rendering, i1Profiler
Post by: Ethan_Hansen on April 10, 2012, 07:17:32 pm
Wayne - If you are out to emulate PMP output, particularly Logo Colorful, that's difficult. The guts of i1Profiler are the MonacoProfiler engine mated to the PMP front-end and its ability to take arbitrary targets. Add a bit of ColorMunki to the mix if you really feel like printing inadequately small initial targets, generating an optimization target, and re-profiling.

In any event, for RGB profiles a heavy hand on the saturation slider gets you closer to Logo Colorful except in hadnilg of red (always less saturated) and yellow (prints as yellow rather than GretagMacbeth greenish-ugly). Softproofing the results against smooth gradients and a Grainger Rainbow shows when you have gone too far without the need to print a stack of paper.

We shoved some hundreds of profiles through i1Profiler before giving up. As Andrew says, it's a mess if you are working with more than a handful of profiles. A basic workflow we established is the following: