Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Martin Ocando on March 01, 2012, 12:18:41 pm
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Watching Michael using the NEX7 more and more, I began wondering about it and have done extensive research on the advantages or disadvantages of a Mirrorless system. Is significantly smaller than my EOS 60D, lenses are also petite in comparison, I don't do any hardcore studio or wildlife/sports work, good lenses are very well priced, EVFs are better every day (And the option of overlaying lots of info is great) and feature wise are very appealing. My photography involves primarily landscape, street, travel, people and family photography. Right now my choices are:
- Wait till April for the Olympus OM-D + 12-50mm + Zuiko 40-150mm
- Get the NEX7 now (If I can get a hold on one body), but I'm worried in lens availability.
I'm leaning towards the Olympus, primarily because is a manufacturer I've always followed with respect for the high quality of its products, but I never had the chance to get one. Back in the film days I was drooling for the OM-4T.
Now, do you consider it a good option, or I will be losing something that I will not find in any mirrorless?
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Martin,
Only you can figure out what is good for you, one thing I always do to check out something new is to rent it. I have used lensrentals.com to rent from and found them to be very reliable and more reasonable in costs than my local camera shops. You could always rent a body and some lenses for a week or so and test them out and see how you like it, then decide if that is what you want to invest time and money into. Getting opinions is nice, but trying it out for yourself will really tell you a lot more. Just a thought.
Alan
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Well, that would be nice, but down here in Panama there is no such service. I must decide based on reviews and experience from others. Sony do have a strong presence in the country, but not so Olympus. So I may be able to try out a NEX7 in the store.
I'll wait for DPreview full test before going any further, but in the mean time I'll start visiting Sony stores and check the NEX7 out.
One thing I would like to know, this time asking Michael directly:
If you had the chance to go to say Europe, or China, or Bangladesh, would you take your Leica, NEX7, or GH2, or you'll be better served with your full size Sony Alpha or Canon FF gear? I mean, do the NEX7 gives you enough image quality to "sacrifice" a nice trip just with a smaller system? Is that good?
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Hi,
My impression is that NEX-lenses are not very good right now. I just got my Sony Alpha 77 yesterday, so I cannot really comment. The Alpha 77 has the same viewfinder as the NEX-7 but uses different lenses.
Just sitting tight on what you have may be a good strategy.
Best regards
Erik
Watching Michael using the NEX7 more and more, I began wondering about it and have done extensive research on the advantages or disadvantages of a Mirrorless system. Is significantly smaller than my EOS 60D, lenses are also petite in comparison, I don't do any hardcore studio or wildlife/sports work, good lenses are very well priced, EVFs are better every day (And the option of overlaying lots of info is great) and feature wise are very appealing. My photography involves primarily landscape, street, travel, people and family photography. Right now my choices are:
- Wait till April for the Olympus OM-D + 12-50mm + Zuiko 40-150mm
- Get the NEX7 now (If I can get a hold on one body), but I'm worried in lens availability.
I'm leaning towards the Olympus, primarily because is a manufacturer I've always followed with respect for the high quality of its products, but I never had the chance to get one. Back in the film days I was drooling for the OM-4T.
Now, do you consider it a good option, or I will be losing something that I will not find in any mirrorless?
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I would hunt around in various forums, another forum that has posted a lot of experience with the Nex 7 is the Fred Miranda, Alternative Gear and lenses forum, there are some very long threads about the NEX7 and various issues people have seen and various experiences.
Alan
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Well, that would be nice, but down here in Panama there is no such service. I must decide based on reviews and experience from others. Sony do have a strong presence in the country, but not so Olympus. So I may be able to try out a NEX7 in the store.
I'll wait for DPreview full test before going any further, but in the mean time I'll start visiting Sony stores and check the NEX7 out.
One thing I would like to know, this time asking Michael directly:
If you had the chance to go to say Europe, or China, or Bangladesh, would you take your Leica, NEX7, or GH2, or you'll be better served with your full size Sony Alpha or Canon FF gear? I mean, do the NEX7 gives you enough image quality to "sacrifice" a nice trip just with a smaller system? Is that good?
The simple answer is that after using the NEX-7 for some 4,000 frames over the past four months, street shooting as well as landscape work, I don't feel that I am making any compromises in image quality over any other camera that I own (except the IQ180 on an Alpa – but that's another story).
I miss my Zeiss A lenses, but not the bulk of my A900. I prefer the huge clear viewfinder of the A900, but not the bulk tradeoff that it means. The EVF on the NEX is actually pretty terrific, especially for low light work where it actually beats a large SLR viewfinder.
Sony's E series zooms aren't great, but neither are they terrible. On the other hand the 24mm Zeiss, the 50mm f/1.8 and the 18mm pancake are terrific. Being able to use just about any other lens, including all my Zeiss glass and Leica M lenses on the NEX-7 clinches the deal.
I came down to Mexico in November shooting with the NEX-7 because it was the latest and greatest, and more importantly because I was finishing up my rolling review series. But, even though I have my Leica M9 and Fuji X100 here as well, along with a NEX 5n, it's the NEX-7 that goes over my shoulder each day.
I have the IQ180 and Alpa here as well, but except for a few days out shooting landscape in the car, it has stayed at home, because much of my shooting here is hand-held. I also hike a lot. The Sony 18-200mm is also the lens I use most, because it is the most versatile. Because of its reach and stabilization it's become a favorite. I sometimes curse the CA at the long end, and some distortion at the wide end, but LR4 cleans both us nicely. I've also learned to stop it down a bit for optimum resolution. Working in a sunny country helps do this more often than not.
I love using great lenses, but I love getting the shot more, regardless of the lens needed.
Hope this helps.
Michael
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Choose lenses then camera :D. Olympus have some great lenses, but NEX has proven that it works great with a lot of excellent other brand lenses.
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The simple answer is that after using the NEX-7 for some 4,000 frames over the past four months, street shooting as well as landscape work, I don't feel that I am making any compromises in image quality over any other camera that I own (except the IQ180 on an Alpa – but that's another story).
I miss my Zeiss A lenses, but not the bulk of my A900. I prefer the huge clear viewfinder of the A900, but not the bulk tradeoff that it means. The EVF on the NEX is actually pretty terrific, especially for low light work where it actually beats a large SLR viewfinder.
Sony's E series zooms aren't great, but neither are they terrible. On the other hand the 24mm Zeiss, the 50mm f/1.8 and the 18mm pancake are terrific. Being able to use just about any other lens, including all my Zeiss glass and Leica M lenses on the NEX-7 clinches the deal.
I came down to Mexico in November shooting with the NEX-7 because it was the latest and greatest, and more importantly because I was finishing up my rolling review series. But, even though I have my Leica M9 and Fuji X100 here as well, along with a NEX 5n, it's the NEX-7 that goes over my shoulder each day.
I have the IQ180 and Alpa here as well, but except for a few days out shooting landscape in the car, it has stayed at home, because much of my shooting here is hand-held. I also hike a lot. The Sony 18-200mm is also the lens I use most, because it is the most versatile. Because of its reach and stabilization it's become a favorite. I sometimes curse the CA at the long end, and some distortion at the wide end, but LR4 cleans both us nicely. I've also learned to stop it down a bit for optimum resolution. Working in a sunny country helps do this more often than not.
I love using great lenses, but I love getting the shot more, regardless of the lens needed.
Hope this helps.
Michael
Oh yeah, Michael. It helps really a Great deal. Thank you very much.
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I came down to Mexico in November shooting with the NEX-7 ... it's the NEX-7 that goes over my shoulder each day.
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I love using great lenses, but I love getting the shot more, regardless of the lens needed.
Up until my most recent expedition with my camera and kit, it had been over the shoulder for most of my trekking with missing black paint in places as proof of this.
Then whilst out walking I spot wildlife that I want a shot of and in the time it took to get my camera out and ready, it was gone.
The reason it was packed away is because I'd been doing longer walks (10 miles in a day) and I wanted it in a place where I could more easily carry the weight.
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I have tha NEX7 and ise the 24 zeiss and my Leica lenses (have the Sony 50 on backorder) and one thing I can say is that the magnified focus assist on both the Sony and Leica lenses allows me to get the most accurate focusing I have ever gotten on any camera...simply amazing! Eleanor
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Just wondering, should that be the 16mm pancake or are there two pancake lenses available?
Thanks
Just a typo.
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Hi Michael,
I was wondering if you had any suggestions for a light travel tripod for the NEX-7 (one's that sturdy enough to make the most of the camera's resolution). I'm hoping to buy the Nex as my only camera - so I'm looking to build a system around it.
Also, I am 25 and I've only been serious about photography for the last three years. I'm now saving up to get a high quality setup that I can take everywhere. I can't afford the Zeiss 24 1.8 at the moment but I want to get the best results out of the Nex 7 that I can. Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks for your time. This site has been a serious aide to my development as a photographer. I try to engage with everything I read critically and I have found your work clear and well justified - you convinced me to adopt ETTR and that alone has exponentially boosted the quality of my output (both figuratively and literally).
Thanks again,
Max
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Carbon fibre Gitzo, RRS or Enduro, no column, and a small light head like an Acratech would be my suggestion.
Michael
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Thank you
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I got the NEX-7 last week and am using it with Nikon and Leica lenses. No question that 24 mp delivers the goods. The menu system is hopeless, I'm still trying to figure it out where I can remember what is where and the squirrels that designed it should have their nuts taken away. Another great camera concept let down by the little things. I'm not certain what a firmware update could achieve to straighten the menu system out, but I have been surprised before.
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It needs a complete menuotomy.
Michael
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Over many many years I've had just about every kind of camera system and format (film and digital) one could ever imagine (except 8 x10 film and tech camera for my Phase backs) and I will say Ive spent more time and studying on how to work my NEX 7 than any other piece of photographic equipment by far. I finally have it fixed for my shooting but it took some doing! Eleanor
I got the NEX-7 last week and am using it with Nikon and Leica lenses. No question that 24 mp delivers the goods. The menu system is hopeless, I'm still trying to figure it out where I can remember what is where and the squirrels that designed it should have their nuts taken away. Another great camera concept let down by the little things. I'm not certain what a firmware update could achieve to straighten the menu system out, but I have been surprised before.
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Eleanor, congratulations! Yeah, I'm almost there...
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In recent months, I have also started to reduce my carrying load and simplify my camera cupboard. I have sold all of my Canon gear, my Phase One back and much of the other odds and ends around the place.
I have kept my Leica M9 with 35, 50 and 75 Crons and a compact Ricoh GR Digital IV.
I have thought about the Sony NEX 7 but just keep stopping short of pulling the trigger every time I read about the new Fuji X-Pro 1. The initial reviews seem to be very positive and the image quality seems to be very nice. However, I do print large, and as such the Sony with it's 24mp or so may make more sense.
I guess for now, I will sit tight and keep watching.
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I have the IQ180 and Alpa here as well, but except for a few days out shooting landscape in the car, it has stayed at home, because much of my shooting here is hand-held. I also hike a lot. The Sony 18-200mm is also the lens I use most, because it is the most versatile. Because of its reach and stabilization it's become a favorite. I sometimes curse the CA at the long end, and some distortion at the wide end, but LR4 cleans both us nicely. I've also learned to stop it down a bit for optimum resolution. Working in a sunny country helps do this more often than not.
I love using great lenses, but I love getting the shot more, regardless of the lens needed.
Michael
Pretty much my experience except that (1) I use the Tamron 18-200mm zoom with my NEX-7, comparable quality with the Sony offering but it has a slightly smaller black lens body (a minor preference) and (2) the stay-at-home MF camera is a Hassy H4D-50.
You just can't beat the all round versatility of the NEX-7, despite a few trade-offs.
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I got the NEX-7 last week and am using it with Nikon and Leica lenses. No question that 24 mp delivers the goods. The menu system is hopeless, I'm still trying to figure it out where I can remember what is where and the squirrels that designed it should have their nuts taken away. Another great camera concept let down by the little things. I'm not certain what a firmware update could achieve to straighten the menu system out, but I have been surprised before.
I recently got my NEX 7. I became so frustrated, I sat with the camera, instruction book, for 3 or 4 hours, and made a 4"x5" card "cheat sheet" with all the very basic functions an experienced photographer would need. For Example:
1.How to Format the card
2. How to set the ISO.
3. How to set the exposure mode (i.e. Aperature preferred, shutter preferred, manual, Program).
4. If I select "Aperture Preferred" How do I set shutter speed, and F stop? (Don't laugh--took me a long time to see how to set shutter speed and F stop). Used to be a F stop ring around the lens, and shutter speed dial on top of camera. Well, Olympus had the shutter speed ring around the lens, but that was an exception!
5. Ditto for "Shutter" preferred, or manual.
6. How to set Single frame, or Multiple frame motor drive.
To me the epitome as to how to design a digital camera is the A900, and 645D, both of which are my current cameras. Both the easiest digital cameras I have ever used.
It is embarrasing, I have been involved in photography in a serious way for well over 55 years, and when a friend buys a "simple point and shoot" camera, and asks me how to use it, I have to tell them I have no clue. They look at my collection of film cameras, and when I show them one shutter speed dial, one aperature on the lens, and one dial to set ISO, they are incredulous as to how simple they are!
End of rant.
Dave
www.modernpictorials.com
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I am presently on a photo trip in Arizona with the Nex7 and only one lens the Zeiss 21.
Shooting manual focus with the Novaflex adapter is effortless.
Will post some shots when I get back to Pa. Mid week.
So far what I am seeing at least for my landscape shooting style is a really big need for full frame/mf.
When you see what Michael R. is shooting with his Nex7 I think it's perfect for that style.
I print really big which means I am shooting quite a few panos. This camera in ff would be a killer.
If they could double its body size,and make it a 40 mp medium format camera for around 5k I would be done buying cameras.
So back to the Nex7. Pretty much the same complaints as everyone else. No bracketing other then jpegs.
Hit the movie button by mistake several times. Some kind of firmware update to clean up the menu system would help.
It's almost like Sony intentionally crippled certain features to protect the next line.
When my Nikon D800 comes it will become my primary landscape pano camera with the Zeiss.
Then the Nex7 can be relegated to a light weight everyday carry camera,more like what it was intended for.
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Another one struggling here and hoping for new firmware, but its such a nice camera that its worth it. Using it with just Leica lenses and loving it.
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I sold sold two A850 after getting my NEX 7. Yes a FF would be much nicer due to the wider angle of view, as I use all my FF lenses on the NEX. Bracketing would be nice, but I can do that manually too. I hit the video button every day a couple of times. This is really annoying. I think the menu is OK. There could be some short cut's like AF/MF but if you are into computers it just comes easy. The little control wheel on the back is very hard use with cold fingers. The EVF is awesome. I exclusively use MF for focusing. And then the EVF beats anything hands down. I never ever had so sharp pictures.
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I have had my NEX-7 for about a week, and although I have just done a bit of testing, I'm liking the IQ very much. I'm pretty adaptable when it comes to menus, so I hadn't really thought about it being bad until I saw these posts.
Just in case Sony engineers happen to be watching LuLa, my vote for the video button would be to change the operation such that pressing it is like "arming video." Another press and recording begins. If no press in say 30 seconds, it times out and goes back to previous state.
But whatever, this will be a great addition to the M9 kit, doing the shots the Leica cannot manage.
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Interesting comments re: the above. I "jumped" to a lighter system, that being the GH2 with it's three lenses awhile ago. I am surprized there were very few comments re: this camera/system as compared to the NEX.. Overall, I am impressed with the Pana. Certainly the weight factor is most noticable as compared to my Nikon system. The manuel is "fustrating" to a degree as well, "muddy". The optics are sound, excellent. I did purchase a Voitlander adapter to use my Nikon lenses. I will be going to Costa Rica the first week of April, and I plan on taking my GH2, 3 pano lenses, the adapter & an older AIS Nikkor Micro 55mm as my "kit" instead of my regular Nikon stuff. My stuff is in an attache bag rather than a camera bag.
Any comments re: the GH2 as an alternative to NEX?
Raymond
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I've only had the NEX-7 a few days, and I'm surprised that you all are having such a hard time with the menu. Sure, it has icons rather than the usual tabs at the top of the screen, but, really, once all of your custom buttons and banks are setup, it seems pretty straight forward to me. I'm not sure that I actually ever even need to go into the menus, except to format cards and occasionally turn on a grid or something. In fact, the "SETUP" menu icon is the only one that I ever use, as anything that I'd need to adjust is there. Once setup, I think it all works at least as good as my A900.
I do agree that there should be a lock on the movie button. Sony should allow you to hold it for a few seconds to lock it, just like the control dials.
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But whatever, this will be a great addition to the M9 kit, doing the shots the Leica cannot manage.
Yes, this has been a big appeal for me. Now I can use Leica glass for distance shots and use the magnification available in Live View for precise focus. It's a win/win situation for many of us.
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Any comments re: the GH2 as an alternative to NEX?
Raymond
Hi,
I used the GH-2 for some months. I was very pleased with the Pana 17 and the 14-140 for stills. However I tried my Leica glass on the GH-2, and was not to pleased with the IQ for this combo , nor with the 2x crop factor. Also I did not fancy the MF with neither lens types. So I ended up selling the GH-2, and recently purchased a NEX-5N while my M9 was at service. I now use the the NEX as a hike and fishing trip camera with only legacy lenses and overall this is a better combo for me. That is not to say that the GH-2 is bad camera, but I consider this as a m43 lens camera, and the NEX more as a digital back.
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I just did it. I sold all my Canon gear and got a Lumix DMC G3 + 14-42mm OIS ASPH for starters. I'm ordering a 20mm f:1.7 pancake, 45-200mm OIS and Bower 7.5mm lenses. I'm also considering the Leica Panasonic 45mm Elmarit-Macro lens, although is very expensive. Instead I'm also considering a used 55mm f:2.8 Micro Nikkor and m43 adapter, but I haven't made my mind yet.
I will be shooting with this system for some time, until the Olympus OM-D gets out in the wild and gets tested by real users, and I will decide if by the end of the year I get one.
My first impressions are quite favorable:
- The system is minuscule. It remembers me the Pentax Auto 110 back in the early 80s.
- Image quality is superb. Comparable to my APS-C Canon raws. Sometimes better noise control and push/pull capabilities.
- Complete unobtrusive system, fits in my belly bag and I take it simply everywhere I go. Best of all, I don't look like a pro photographer anymore. I'm just either a tourist or some guy shooting around, so I make people more comfortable around me. I can even shoot inside a public bus, unthinkable with my Canon rig.
- Mine is RED colored. Actually it was the last one, so I had no choice, but the color has grown on me. My kids named it "Ironman's Camera". Still, I think the less-pro look contributes to my relaxing state and everyone else.
- I have learned to live with the lack of eye sensor to switch between LCD and EVF. Actually I trust more my shooting abilities and stopped reviewing every image. Like using film. I also think it saves a bit of battery not using the rear LCD too much.
Having TONS of fun. Can't wait for my lenses to arrive.