Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: hirte_7 on February 16, 2012, 01:58:31 pm
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Hello,
is there a way how I can calculate reasonably accurate the costs of a print in regards to ink, type of picture (colored, BW), size and media? I am about to buy or lease an Epson 9890 and would like to be able to calculate the costs for print. Is there a formula that can be used or some average numbers that make sense?
Thanks for your thoughts.
KM
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Hello,
is there a way how I can calculate reasonably accurate the costs of a print in regards to ink, type of picture (colored, BW), size and media? I am about to buy or lease an Epson 9890 and would like to be able to calculate the costs for print. Is there a formula that can be used or some average numbers that make sense?
Thanks for your thoughts.
KM
Please research this website, you will find articles I have written on this subject and in my Epson printer reviews. Not the same models but the approach could remain useful. The method of finding out ink consumption per print varies from model to model.
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I have no clue about the Epson printers.
But if you buy a canon printer, they provide you with exact details of the cost as part of the print log.
YMMV, but good ball park starting point might be $0.50 to $1.00 per sq. foot for ink, on CANON ipf8300 LARGE FORMAT printers with large ink tank (350ml). And about the same or slightly higher for the paper. But I am sure you can calculate the paper cost, since you know the roll cost and the size.
Above is just estimate. It really depends on type of media you print on and also type of image. I think my RC gloss paper takes about 20-30% more ink than canvas.
You really have to consider additional cost like ink wastage for head cleaning, loosing end of the roll of the paper due to not enough length or damage and etc.
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It's pretty easy once you're actually printing, but there's a bit of manual note taking involved. The printer keeps track of how much was printed and how much ink was used (to within .1 ml) for the last 10 jobs. You'll have to make notes about paper stock, and type of job but after a while you can pretty accurately figure out ink costs for each type of media you run. I haven't found a way to automatically download this info from the printer (but that would be awesome... Epson, are you listening?). You should be able to calculate a fairly accurate per square inch cost in Excel within about 10-20 print jobs.
I've calculated my 9890 to be around $.50 /sq. foot for canvas and $.80 (ish) for luster/gloss paper if I buy ink in 150ml carts. It's lower if you buy 700 ml carts. YMMV.
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Most people in the "printing for hire" business consider $5 per square foot a fairly representative cost, including depreciation, overhead, etc. But not including labor and profit.
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when shopping for my 44" printer both epson and canon reps provided me with a sheet that detailed ink cost and paper cost vor a variety of paper types and print types. I'm sure they'd share the same with you.
on my 44" canon it looks to be $2.40-$3.80/sq ft for just media and ink.
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Hey, not sure if it helps, but I worked with my brother to build a quick Microsoft Access data base to track our print cost, it doesn't estimate print costs (I think a lot of rips will do that) but you get a very good idea very quickly as to what your spend actually is..
you do not need access to run this, it's a stand alone..
first, it tracks the user (from windows login)
then you click "create a log"
(http://s14.postimage.org/gbplrwr25/16_02_2012_19_49_57.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gbplrwr25/)
you can then input the ink usage (got from printer) the media consumption, if it's mounted or not (this adds a set amount), the paper type. you also have an override cost. you can specify if it billable, personal or internal.
(http://s14.postimage.org/dvnse28zh/16_02_2012_19_50_35.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/dvnse28zh/)
this gets logged and you can then run a report of previous prints.
(http://s14.postimage.org/fbzaw7bwd/16_02_2012_19_51_45.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fbzaw7bwd/)
you can set up multiple printers, papers, ink volumes etc..
(http://s14.postimage.org/le6xmp0cd/16_02_2012_19_52_42.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/le6xmp0cd/)
for what I need, it works really well.
I'll upload it if anyone wants it?
James
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for what I need, it works really well.
I'll upload it if anyone wants it?
James
Thank you James. I am on Mac so I am afraid an Access db will not for work for me. But sounds interesting.
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when shopping for my 44" printer both epson and canon reps provided me with a sheet that detailed ink cost and paper cost vor a variety of paper types and print types. I'm sure they'd share the same with you.
on my 44" canon it looks to be $2.40-$3.80/sq ft for just media and ink.
Thanks for the hint - I will ask them.
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It's pretty easy once you're actually printing, but there's a bit of manual note taking involved. The printer keeps track of how much was printed and how much ink was used (to within .1 ml) for the last 10 jobs. You'll have to make notes about paper stock, and type of job but after a while you can pretty accurately figure out ink costs for each type of media you run. I haven't found a way to automatically download this info from the printer (but that would be awesome... Epson, are you listening?). You should be able to calculate a fairly accurate per square inch cost in Excel within about 10-20 print jobs.
I've calculated my 9890 to be around $.50 /sq. foot for canvas and $.80 (ish) for luster/gloss paper if I buy ink in 150ml carts. It's lower if you buy 700 ml carts. YMMV.
OK great -thanks, I will try this once I start printing.
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Inkjetart.com had an excel doc that works well and Epson also has a new web called Myepsonprinter.com that seems to be worthwhile. I've used the excel doc for a number of years and just started with Myepsonprinter.com when I upgraded to the 9900. Using either (or both) will get you a ballpark estimate of what your costs are.
Don
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I'll upload it if anyone wants it?
James
That would be awesome! Thanks James.
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That would be awesome! Thanks James.
done! :)
https://rapidshare.com/files/1294056885/Epson_9900_print_cost_tracker.zip
you can download an Access runtime (free) from here.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=d9ae78d9-9dc6-4b38-9fa6-2c745a175aed&displaylang=en
I'm pretty sure it's easily tweakable, I've never done it, as I said my brother put it toghther, but let me know how you get on and if you need anything done!
hope it helps! :)
James
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Epson also has a new web called Myepsonprinter.com that seems to be worthwhile.
Don
Hi Don,
I've registered with myepsonprinter.eu, but it shows me that I've printed say 15 prints this month, but,... no details on it.. does this happen for you?
did you need to do anything to get it to work?
Thanks,
James
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...dont know about epson specifics as i have an HP with a very detailed print logging.
a very low tech but in my eyes rather exact way to estimate ink used on a print (not including amounts being purged during cleaning cycles):
used this to find out ink amounts for a friends machine - we weighed unprinted and printed sheets of paper (paper size and printed area
are both known variables).
used a cheap small electronic scale with sufficient accuracy (new for ard. 20 euros/usd on ebay) - assuming basically the same specific
weight as water for water based pigment inks the
weight difference in printed vs. unprinted sheets in grams equates to the amount of ink used on the paper in milliliters.
cheers
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Hi Don,
I've registered with myepsonprinter.eu, but it shows me that I've printed say 15 prints this month, but,... no details on it.. does this happen for you?
did you need to do anything to get it to work?
Thanks,
James
Hello James,
I don’t know about the .eu side since I am on the .com side from Epson.
However, when I click on the top menu “Printer” I reach a page “printer overview”. On the bottom the is an area called “job activity” and I can see an overview. On the right there is a link for each activity called “more information” clicking on this link brings me to a very detailed info page about this particular print job. Including even some basic billing options (if you set it up).
I would think that’s the same on the .eu side
Rainer
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Hello James,
I don’t know about the .eu side since I am on the .com side from Epson.
However, when I click on the top menu “Printer” I reach a page “printer overview”. On the bottom the is an area called “job activity” and I can see an overview. On the right there is a link for each activity called “more information” clicking on this link brings me to a very detailed info page about this particular print job. Including even some basic billing options (if you set it up).
I would think that’s the same on the .eu side
Rainer
yeah it's a weird one, I too see a "printer overview" section, but it says "No Connection".. then the thing is I can click on the printer, it shows me that I've done a number of prints, the ink level, the maintenance tank level, list of maintenance and errors.. but no details of the prints.
I must get on to them about it!
Thanks
James
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Yeah, that’s strange,
On the .eu side it states
“Know how much every print job will cost you, and forget making estimations with test files.
Useful when you are invoicing your customers.”
I know that I don’t have to be connected with the printer to see all the info.
Can you see at least where you can make the selection e.g. how much you pay for ink, paper and so on?
Fixed costs per job?
On the side there should be somewhere on the top menu a help button or ?
Check the help out, on the .com it is explained were to find all the good stuff.
Rainer
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the .eu site is a little different, but should basically do the same thing.. I've sent support a mail but it says it's a public beta so probably not officially supported :(
I'll keep you informed anyway.
Thanks for the help
James
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Hi Don,
I've registered with myepsonprinter.eu, but it shows me that I've printed say 15 prints this month, but,... no details on it.. does this happen for you?
did you need to do anything to get it to work?
Thanks,
James
Hi James, sorry for the delay in responding. I just spent the past week in Jackson WY for a show and am currently on my way home and stoped off in Moab. It looks like you've gotten the answer. I'll be back in my studio Tuesday and will see if I can find anything to add to what has already been posted.
Don
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great Don,
I've been thinking it could maybe be something to do with our firewall, but we haven't been instructed to do anything specific with it.
did you have to do anything did it just work?
Thanks,
James
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done! :)
https://rapidshare.com/files/1294056885/Epson_9900_print_cost_tracker.zip
you can download an Access runtime (free) from here.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=d9ae78d9-9dc6-4b38-9fa6-2c745a175aed&displaylang=en
I'm pretty sure it's easily tweakable, I've never done it, as I said my brother put it toghther, but let me know how you get on and if you need anything done!
hope it helps! :)
James
Thanks James!
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no probs! let me know how you get on
James
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in the days of not that long ago Epson had always said it was 76-78 cents a foot and Canon is about 22 cents foot for ink only. By the way I'm still trying to validate the exact cost of Canon inks but so far it seems right if you are buying the 700 ml cartridges. Media is very easy and should not be calculated in a discussion like this because it really depends on paper or canvas and what kind, and also where you buy it.
Paper and canvas medias are very very easy. Keep printing pigments
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On my HP Z3200, the print driver keeps track of total paper and ink used. This makes it pretty easy to compute printing costs which worked out to about $1.76 / sq ft for me. This is made up of $0.83 for ink, $0.05 for replacement print heads (estimated), and $0.88 for paper. In contrast, Hp advertising brochure reported numbers varying from $1.40 to $1.60.
However, this doesn't account for amortization of the printer, proof prints, calibration prints, etc.
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Using (slightly modified) the fairly straightforward Excel-based methodology I have documented in my previous articles on this website, I estimate that my Epson 4900 is costing me about 80 cents (Canadian) per square foot for ink. This is based on paying about 107 CAD per 200 ml cartridge including sales taxes, and approximate consumption of 1.5 ml/sq.ft.
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I don't know if you are interested. But for proof prints, I am running OCP Claria Match Dye inks on an older Epson 7600.
I have been quite happy with the quality of the output, and how well they matched my final Epson K3 output. I was shooting mostly 4"x5", and smaller prints just didn't represent what was in the image.
The 7600 was the last printer that allowed you to reset all of the values manually, and to access all of the maintenance panels. I run one as a proof printer with the dyes, and one as a B&W printer with custom mixed B&W inks, along the lines of Paul Roarks inks.
I just ordered new dye inks today. The cost averages to about $20 for 1 quart - 32 oz. The total cost for a 220 ml cart comes to $4.65 per 220 ml, or about $.02 per ml.
I bought the printer itself years ago for $500. The older 7600 is not as efficient as the newer printers. I will have to recalculate the actual amount based on the ink used, as I have the ink counter turned off. You could pick up a cheap 7800 or 7880 to do the same thing - I have had the 7600's for many years.
My standard proof print for 4x5 is 24"x30". For my 1DsII it is 18"x27". I like to proof a lot of images large, as the final destination is a large print. Hard to get the same feel at a smaller size. I have a Nikon 800E on order and will also proof those large.
For proofs I use Epson Premium Semi-Gloss 170 because of the light weight and relatively low cost. I stocked up when Epson had a buy 2, get 1 free sale. I think my price was about $.20 per sq ft for media.
Best,
Michael
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ColorHQ has a nice spreadsheet with the cost per print on the 44" Canon 8300.
All calculated at MSRP, but some pretty good detail on actual usage with 3 standard images:
https://www.colorhq.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/1imageprograf%20ipf8300%20cost%20analysis.pdf
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Hello James,
it has been a while but I just installed the Access run time 2010 and tried to open your Access DB for the printing costs. I receive a run time error and Access just quits. The link you provided pointed to Access 2007 for XP or Vista. I guess you are running your DB on XP or Vista? I am not familiar with Access and if there are differences with the 2010 Windows 7 Version and earlier versions. Di you happen to know?
Thanks.
KM
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Hi KM,
I'm running Win 7 64bit with Access 2010 and it runs fine for me.. not sure what's happening for you to be honest. I'll check again on a different PC and let you know tomorrow.
did anybody else install it? any issues?
Thanks,
James
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No problems using Win7-64. Thanks for the program. It's useful.
Les
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No problems using Win7-64. Thanks for the program. It's useful.
Les
thanks for the info and feedback - it's definitely useful! let me know if you would like any tweaks or functionality added - if it's easy I'll see if I can get it implemented.
@KM - I tried it again on a different PC and works fine..
James