Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: K.C. on January 05, 2012, 11:25:18 pm
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Looks like the MP race is over.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/05/nikon-d4-dslr-camera/
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Yep. I should be available on Feb 16th, 6000 US$ list price in the US.
"Interestingly", it appears to be 20-30% more expensive in Japan than in the US:
- 6000 US$ list price corresponding to 463,000 Yen,
- The current Yodobashi price is 648,000 Yen - 10% in points = 583,000 Yen.
Online stores might end up being 10% cheaper, but it will stil be around 530,000 Yen.
It would seem that the Japanese customers are expected to pay for some of the profit loss Nikon is enduring because of the stronger Yen when selling in the US... I guess many will instead buy from US online stores...
Cheers,
Bernard
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And so it begins...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1x2DbS55E
http://regex.info/blog/2012-01-06/1916
Mike.
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Looks like the MP race is over.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/05/nikon-d4-dslr-camera/
Thanks for the link, interesting!
Not sure about your statement on MP race though, you might be right but maybe it's better to wait until after the D4x specs get published ;)
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http://www.nikon.com.au/en_AU/product_details.page?DCRPath=templatedata/en_AU/saleable_product_information/data/Digital%20SLR%20Cameras/D4.xml¤tProductTab=4&CategoryID=gp11zkm9
They look to me real nice. And considering they are "introduction files" they are awesome.
Eduardo
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http://www.nikon.com.au/en_AU/product_details.page?DCRPath=templatedata/en_AU/saleable_product_information/data/Digital%20SLR%20Cameras/D4.xml¤tProductTab=4&CategoryID=gp11zkm9
They look to me real nice. And considering they are "introduction files" they are awesome.
Sounds very good indeed. Nice and crispy yet devoid of any visible halo or artifacts. Should be perfect for the targeted audience who cannot afford to waste time checking files for possible issues.
The 6400 images seems better than ISO 80 on most compact cameras. ;D
I wonder whether these are jpg out of camera or raw.
Cheers,
Bernard
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You will be getting one I take it Bernard?
it will be interesting to see how it compares with the 1Dx.
Those files @6400 look impressive.
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You will be getting one I take it Bernard?
it will be interesting to see how it compares with the 1Dx.
Those files @6400 look impressive.
Hi Dave,
I am not sure whether I'll get one. Not because of concerns about the specs or quality of the files, but because of the opportunity cost.
Low light is a tiny part of my shooting and the D7000 is actually very good already for most practical purposes. At low ISO I don't expect a huge difference eventhough the D4 is probably going to deliver a more forgiving file.
At least not until we have clarity about the rumored D800 and certainly not at the current price in Japan.
Now, never say never. :-)
Cheers,
Bernard
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I came accross this video sample:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZZMIo7Zfys&feature=youtu.be&hd=1
I don't know much about video, but it seems pretty good to me, no?
Cheers,
Bernard
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91k-pixel RGB 3D Color Matrix Meter, and still no ETTR metering mode? ::)
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Bernard - I am looking to possibly upgrade from my D700 to the D800 as I do a lot of landscapes. The D4 looks great but for the price and specs, it's really not meant for me. While the rumored specs on the D800 are still unconfirmed, it appears the 36mp is for real.
I'd appreciate any/all insights you might have on things to consider before buying a camera like the D800. I have their top glass and my computer and digital storage are not issues.
However, what's your take on the AA filter (assuming they do issue two models), is shooting hand held a camera with that high of resolution possible, even with VR, etc. I mostly use a tripod but still...
Thanks in advance for any assistance you (or anyone else!) may be able to provide in this matter.
Phil
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The D4 certainly looks interesting especially for the the style of photographers it's targeted toward, but for me it isn't what I want. I'm really surprised that Nikon didn't target to announce the D800 before the D4, but I admit I'm basing this only on my view of a large group of landscape photographers that jumped ship from Nikon to Canon and went with the 5D MkII. It just feels like this market would be the one Nikon would have wanted to gain some market share more quickly. Anyone else tend to feel the same?
-Garrick
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Looks like the MP race is over.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/05/nikon-d4-dslr-camera/
There may be some truth to that as far as Canon and Nikon are concerned... in that camera makers are no longer touting mp's as a main upgrade feature of their cameras. I don't think that means we won't see much higher resolution sensors in cameras, there is plenty of room for quality improvements in resolution ... even far beyond 36mp.
The high dSLR market is dominated by those that need fast focus, fast capture rates, best possible high ISO performance, and rugged bodies. They don't need 36mp. Thus the move by Nikon, similar to Canon's announced 1Dx.
But these aren't the mainstream cameras of either company, which sells a great share of it's dSLR's to a segment that craves more resolution and much less interested in fast capture rates and amazing autofocus. whether a 36mp sensor can actually deliver that (because many of these shooters also don't buy the best glass) remains to be seen, but both companies appear to be responding accordingly. thus the rumors persist that both the d800 and 5d mk3 will be @36mp. there are also rumblings of sony making a ff mirrorless camera sporting a 36mp sensor.
guess we'll wait and see ...
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The D4 certainly looks interesting especially for the the style of photographers it's targeted toward, but for me it isn't what I want. I'm really surprised that Nikon didn't target to announce the D800 before the D4, but I admit I'm basing this only on my view of a large group of landscape photographers that jumped ship from Nikon to Canon and went with the 5D MkII. It just feels like this market would be the one Nikon would have wanted to gain some market share more quickly. Anyone else tend to feel the same?
-Garrick
The Olympics are this year and the journalism equipment depots will need to be making their purchases soon. This is who the D4 is aimed at - it even has an ethernet plug! It's a camera for journalism, sports and others who need speed/high ISO/durability/rapid access over resolution.
I doubt there's a D4X in the works just like Canon did away with the 1DS. The D800 will be the high resolution body (Canon's equivalent will be the 5D mkIII). Also, the D800 factory was walloped by the floods in Thailand, so who knows when it will be ready...
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The Olympics are this year and the journalism equipment depots will need to be making their purchases soon. This is who the D4 is aimed at - it even has an ethernet plug!
I don't believe that's true. I saw that in the DCR article, but I see no mention of it in Nikon's official announcement.
Also, the D800 factory was walloped by the floods in Thailand, so who knows when it will be ready...
I don't think that's accurate either, the Thailand factory made consumer bodies; D3100/51000, not the D700. Though the earthquake/tsunami surely had an effect on the matter.
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Yep, it has a jack for an RJ45 cable for direct internet connection, or with an adaptor, a WiFi connection. You can log in from anywhere on the web to control your camera, and that includes iPhones and iPads.
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Bernard - I am looking to possibly upgrade from my D700 to the D800 as I do a lot of landscapes. The D4 looks great but for the price and specs, it's really not meant for me. While the rumored specs on the D800 are still unconfirmed, it appears the 36mp is for real.
I'd appreciate any/all insights you might have on things to consider before buying a camera like the D800. I have their top glass and my computer and digital storage are not issues.
However, what's your take on the AA filter (assuming they do issue two models), is shooting hand held a camera with that high of resolution possible, even with VR, etc. I mostly use a tripod but still...
Hi Phil,
About AA or no AA, I frankly don't know. On the principle I prefer a AA filter because the real life impact on sharpness is small while the near total lack of artifacts results in an image that is truer to the scene and faster to process (no need to waste time looking for moire that you often only see in large prints). Now, I often do panos also, so the 5% sharpness loss resulting from the AA filter is mostly unsignificant.
Then it is about whether you can deal with the fact that your images will need a degree of sharpening to appear sharp at 100% on screen. It seems that many folks enjoy the immediateness if sharpness when opening an image shot with an AA filter less device, whether the details are real or not.
Now Pentax has shown that very clean AA filter less files are possible, so I would say that we'll have to wait for actual images).
As far as being able to shoot sharp images hand held, if I judge from my d7000, the answer is yes when using live view. I am rarely 100% satisfied by AF images when using a lens wide open. Some place is critically sharp but not always exactly the one I would want to be.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I don't believe that's true. I saw that in the DCR article, but I see no mention of it in Nikon's official announcement.
The last image on this overview is of the ports: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7799914638/nikon-d4-overview/3
Ethernet cable can be useful for reliable high speed transfers over a network and remote control. Cameras mounted high up on a catwalk come to mind. A lot of stage lighting is ethernet controlled these days, so it's not unusual to find such connections in that area. I don't see a huge demand for it, but some people will be glad to have it.
I don't think that's accurate either, the Thailand factory made consumer bodies; D3100/51000, not the D700. Though the earthquake/tsunami surely had an effect on the matter.
You're correct, however parts are/were made in Thailand and it is known that the announcement of the D800 was delayed for this reason.
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As far as the D4 being announced earlier, there are probably a few factors:
- the need to react to the Canon 1DX paper launch. The D4 will ship 1.5 months earlier, but many people see it already as a reaction to the 1DX,
- the Olympics approaching and the need for pros to fully validate the performance for still and video,
- although the D800 is probably going to be produced/assembled in Sendai (Japan), it could be that some critical components were to be produced in Thailand,
- the reactions to the D800 rumors were very negative in some forums (possibly Orchastrated by competitors) and most people then wrote that they didn't care about more resolution... Now of course it is the opposite. :-)
Cheers,
Bernard
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The last image on this overview is of the ports: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7799914638/nikon-d4-overview/3
Ethernet cable can be useful for reliable high speed transfers over a network and remote control. Cameras mounted high up on a catwalk come to mind. A lot of stage lighting is ethernet controlled these days, so it's not unusual to find such connections in that area. I don't see a huge demand for it, but some people will be glad to have it.
Great, now we're going to have cameras sending spam. :)
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Looks like the MP race is over.
I see it differently: Canon and Nikon have both somewhat increased the resolution of their high frame-rate, bulletproof-bodied "Olympics" cameras, for sports and PJ: 1DMkIV -> 1DX, D3S->D4. It still seems likely that both will next offer new, higher resolution models for the "MF replacement" sector, like the rumored Nikon D800. But maybe they will abandon the bulky integrated vertical grip designs for that category.
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There may be some truth to that as far as Canon and Nikon are concerned... in that camera makers are no longer touting mp's as a main upgrade feature of their cameras. I don't think that means we won't see much higher resolution sensors in cameras, there is plenty of room for quality improvements in resolution ... even far beyond 36mp.
Wayne understood the point I was trying to make when I said it looks like the MP race is over.
Clearly there will be higher res bodies, but fortunately is seems that's no longer the sole marketing point of each new camera.
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Wayne understood the point I was trying to make when I said it looks like the MP race is over.
Clearly there will be higher res bodies, but fortunately is seems that's no longer the sole marketing point of each new camera.
It was in fact over the day Nikon presented the D3 four years ago.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi,
D3 - 12 MP
D4 - 16 MP
Keep in mind that D# series are intended for sports and low light.
The X-series is for studio/landscape type of users who shoot low ISO
D3X - 24 MP
D4X - 36 MP
Todays 16 MP APS-C sensors (Pentax K5, Nikon D7000, Sony SLT A55 etc) correspond exactly to 36 MP when scaled up to full frame, so the technology is here and kicking. My guess is that todays 16 MP cameras are not very far from the Nikon D3X, Sony Alpha 900 and Canon 5DII. I have tested my stuff (Sony) and that is certainly the case.
It is pretty sure that we will see a Nikon D800 with 36 MP very soon. Going from 24 MP to 36 MP is a minor step, that probably will not be visible in prints.
I would not call it a mega pixel race, but there is an evolution going on on sensors and one of the effects of that is more pixels.
It's exactly as with film. We had different directions, films intended for high ISO (Tri-X) and for high resolution (Panatonix-X, T-MAX 100, Technical Pan).
Best regards
Erik
Looks like the MP race is over.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/05/nikon-d4-dslr-camera/
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Hi,
I have a Sony Alpha 55 SLT, with 16 MP APS-C which exactly matches 36 MP on full frame. It has a weak AA-filter, no AA-filter or the "translucent" mirror acts as a week AA-filter.
Essentially, I see color moiré in all my test shots. Real life, I don't know! I see some ugly artifacts on some shots and it produces a lot of fake texture, I think. But sure I am not.
My view is that I would rather have more pixels with corresponding AA-filtering than fewer pixels with no AA-filter.
On the other hand, my 16 MP APS-C is quite close to my 24 MP full frame in sharpness. The downsize is that the images from the 16 MP are harsher and don't sharpen as well.
Best regards
Erik
Hi Phil,
About AA or no AA, I frankly don't know. On the principle I prefer a AA filter because the real life impact on sharpness is small while the near total lack of artifacts results in an image that is truer to the scene and faster to process (no need to waste time looking for moire that you often only see in large prints). Now, I often do panos also, so the 5% sharpness loss resulting from the AA filter is mostly unsignificant.
Then it is about whether you can deal with the fact that your images will need a degree of sharpening to appear sharp at 100% on screen. It seems that many folks enjoy the immediateness if sharpness when opening an image shot with an AA filter less device, whether the details are real or not.
Now Pentax has shown that very clean AA filter less files are possible, so I would say that we'll have to wait for actual images).
As far as being able to shoot sharp images hand held, if I judge from my d7000, the answer is yes when using live view. I am rarely 100% satisfied by AF images when using a lens wide open. Some place is critically sharp but not always exactly the one I would want to be.
Cheers,
Bernard
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It's exactly as with film. We had different directions, films intended for high ISO (Tri-X) and for high resolution (Panatonix-X, T-MAX 100, Technical Pan).
Best regards
Erik
+1
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... camera makers are no longer touting mp's as a main upgrade feature of their cameras.
Canon and Nikon have never used MP's as the main upgrade feature for the 1D-1DMkII-1DMkIII-1DMkIV-1DX or D1H-D2H-D3-D3s-D4 sequence of "PJ/sports" cameras designed for high frame rates, high shutter speeds and so on. So in that context, I do not see a change yet from evidence like the D4 announcement. Let us wait until we have a fuller round of SLR upgrades with no headlining of MP increases before drawing that conclusion.
And by the way, it seems that the usual web-site "negligee of secrecy" around forthcoming cameras has been seen through again, with a likely D800 image floating around, so I guess we will know more within a week.
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What stuns me in the 'where's the logic' department, is WHY incorporate an ethernet connector that only runs at 100Mb/s (ie 12.5MB/s theoretical max) on a camera that shoots 10 or more frames a second?! Instant bottleneck.
1000Mb/s (Gigabit) has been an ethernet standard for years and IS included on the comparable Canon 1D-X.
It boggles my mind. Was it cost? USB 2 would be faster. Someone please explain it to me as I can't work it out.
-Nik
This is who the D4 is aimed at - it even has an ethernet plug! It's a camera for journalism, sports and others who need speed/high ISO/durability/rapid access over resolution.
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If this camera has 8x less noise at ISO 6400 than my 5D2 I would consider buying it to finally appease my yearning for smooth-as-silk, hdr, focus-stacked, night time stitched panoramas. Otherwise no deal. Any unfounded opinions? ;)
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What stuns me in the 'where's the logic' department, is WHY incorporate an ethernet connector that only runs at 100Mb/s (ie 12.5MB/s theoretical max) on a camera that shoots 10 or more frames a second?! Instant bottleneck.
1000Mb/s (Gigabit) has been an ethernet standard for years and IS included on the comparable Canon 1D-X.
It boggles my mind. Was it cost? USB 2 would be faster. Someone please explain it to me as I can't work it out.
The high throughput output of the D4 is HDMI that can stream uncompressed video in 1080p.
The ethernet and wifi are mostly meant at allowing for jpg transfer for immediate viewing and remote control while the heavy data is stored in local media.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I love coming here, so much knowledge, truly a great place to learn about the Science of digital photography.
As a "serious amateur" who has an equipment Jones the recent advances in technology are just amazing to me.
A would kill for a camera that no longer requires a heavy flash unit to make it ridiculously imbalanced or my left hand to be holding said heavy flash as I take images of things that interest me. This camera seems all that. Sadly, it's sooooo darn BIG and HEAVY! Is there a reason an instrument as useful as this needs to be so honking large? Are there special electronics or...???
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Is there a reason an instrument as useful as this needs to be so honking large? Are there special electronics or...???
All that extra weight damps out high frequency vibrations as from body twitches etc. Until your arms fall off, or you become paralyzed from the strap distorting your neck vertebrae.
IMHO if that camera has a viewfinder as nice as the D3, and that has something to do with the weight, then it's worth it.
Isn't "uncompressed" video over HDMI 10 bits? Not bad, but also not strictly "broadcast quality" when claimed for a camera.
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The high throughput output of the D4 is HDMI that can stream uncompressed video in 1080p.
The ethernet and wifi are mostly meant at allowing for jpg transfer for immediate viewing and remote control while the heavy data is stored in local media.
One more piece of information on this. When in HTTP mode, it seems that it is possible to remotely access the memory card of the D4, select which images need to be downloaded and to download them.
Think of an editor during a sports event working with 4 photographers in the field with ethernet/wifi connections. The editor would be able to review the images shot by his team on the fly in their cameras and download the jpg versions of the images that seem OK... If that doesn't scream Olympics...
Regards,
Bernard
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Bernard,
I am well aware of the potential net-workable uses of this camera, I have wanted this ability for a long time but I suppose this camera is not for me then as I care about RAW only. Hopefully Nikon and other manufacturers will make an HTTP server standard in every camera from now on and include a GB network port on some of those cameras for those of us who shoot tethered RAW. I will test the D4's performance tethered via RJ45 once it comes out, maybe all my griping will be for nothing.
-N
One more piece of information on this. When in HTTP mode, it seems that it is possible to remotely access the memory card of the D4, select which images need to be downloaded and to download them.
Think of an editor during a sports event working with 4 photographers in the field with ethernet/wifi connections. The editor would be able to review the images shot by his team on the fly in their cameras and download the jpg versions of the images that seem OK... If that doesn't scream Olympics...
Regards,
Bernard