Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Stefan.Steib on December 18, 2011, 01:17:11 pm
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According to this source we will see an interview with Pentax´s R&D Chef Mr. Kitazawa tomorrow, where he mentions they are already working on a mirrorless camera (like a mamiya 7?) with the chip of the Pentax AF645D
http://photorumors.com/2011/12/17/pentax-is-working-on-a-mirrorless-full-frame-and-medium-format-cameras/
Also in the works a full frame 35mm mirrorless.
Finally there starts the movement and as always the Japanese are doing it.
I am sure this is the way to go. So who´s next ?
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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According to this source we will see an interview with Pentax´s R&D Chef Mr. Kitazawa tomorrow, where he mentions they are already working on a mirrorless camera (like a mamiya 7?) with the chip of the Pentax AF645D
http://photorumors.com/2011/12/17/pentax-is-working-on-a-mirrorless-full-frame-and-medium-format-cameras/
Also in the works a full frame 35mm mirrorless.
Finally there starts the movement and as always the Japanese are doing it.
I am sure this is the way to go. So who´s next ?
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/168796-mr-kitazawa-slated-announce-pentax-upcoming-bodies-dec-19th-2.html#post1748337
"...I am a Japanese and as I read this article, it is no where saying Pentax is doing mirror less FF and 645 is in early stage. This guy who wrote this article is just trying to sell the magazine with more detailed interview of Mr. Kitamura. All I could read from the article is Mr. Kitamura said in his interview that he is trying to start developing mirror less FF right now and his vision is even to expand to mirror less 645..."
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According to this source we will see an interview with Pentax´s R&D Chef Mr. Kitazawa tomorrow, where he mentions they are already working on a mirrorless camera (like a mamiya 7?) with the chip of the Pentax AF645D
I can't imagine them using this same CCD chip for live-view. They would have to source a new CMOS sensor to achieve that. It would be interesting if they came up with such a sensor, since it could signal a new generation of MFD technology.
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As a simple and fast solution they could just use a coupled optical viewfinder.
I estimate the Pentax engineers to be very practical and profit orientated people (their AF645D shows how good they are with proper product placement)
and paving the way to a later CMOS you first have to earn some money - which such a camera could easily do.
Bring in a new flange focal range (maybe something like 35mm to around 45mm) start building a lens portfolio and make a claim as a first for the market segment.
That easy and again - very clever !
Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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I'm just wondering, how would the Kodak CCD that Pentax is using in the 645D stack up against the Sony 36MP FF sensor in practice?
I don't see Pentax adding an optical viewfinder into this mix, not in the sense of a classic rangefinder camera. Not that I wouldn't like to see a mirrorless MFD. Perhaps the video industry will drive development of an MF CMOS chip.
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I can't imagine them using this same CCD chip for live-view. They would have to source a new CMOS sensor to achieve that. It would be interesting if they came up with such a sensor, since it could signal a new generation of MFD technology.
Oh yeah baby! Low noise Medium Format CMOS sensor (http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/arthur/images/grail.gif)
Ray
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Perhaps the video industry will drive development of an MF CMOS chip.
perhaps they will? whoever does develop such a useful chip it will not be leaphamiyablad but a company that has it's own design/manufacturing set up and a willingness to produce cutting edge technology.
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Hi,
No one except MFDB industry, astronomers, NASA and the defense industry needs a MF sensor. For Hollywood APS C is full size, and APS C is good enough for 4k. They don't need MF sensors and MF-lenses.
The way I see it...
Best regards
Erik
perhaps they will? whoever does develop such a useful chip it will not be leaphamiyablad but a company that has it's own design/manufacturing set up and a willingness to produce cutting edge technology.
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I've no doubt there will be a mirrorless 645 camera but I do doubt that Pentax will be the first to introduce it.
Since Alpa has already done that, then I guess you would be right. But Pentax is the most likely to make the second one.
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I'm just wondering, how would the Kodak CCD that Pentax is using in the 645D stack up against the Sony 36MP FF sensor in practice?
Go to DPreview an compare Sony's 25MP APS cameras with their 24MP 35mm camera to get an idea. Photography is light dependent and pixels still need light and light still has a wavelength.
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Medium formats depth of field is way too shallow for video so that would never happen, focusing would be a nightmare!
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Medium formats depth of field is way too shallow for video so that would never happen, focusing would be a nightmare!
As opposed to say 70mm cine stock? Actually, focusing a 44mm x 33mm sensor is not that difficult.
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In this context I took "mirrorless 645" to mean a camera with the sensor in the body and an EVF or equivalent. And yes, my money would still be on a manufacturer other than Pentax.
Which manufacturer?
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Which manufacturer?
Phase One ?
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Well, it won't be the European manufacturers as they tend to be too conservative. Must be Samsung.
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No one except MFDB industry, astronomers, NASA and the defense industry needs a MF sensor. For Hollywood APS C is full size, and APS C is good enough for 4k. They don't need MF sensors and MF-lenses.
The way I see it...
While RED has been quiet about it recently, they did introduce the Monstro family, which includes these future formats. The items below come from earlier announcements (and the wiki page), but Red's web site has virtually no mention of them now.
Epic 645 56x42mm 9,334 × 7,000 (9K) 65 16
Epic 617 168x56mm 28,000 × 9,334 (28K) 261 16
I don't know if they'll ever make it, but it certainly seems that any such chip would ipso facto have to support live view in real time.
That's what I was thinking of. But who knows if RED will ever get there. Clearly the staple for video is S35, with FF35 becoming useful for wide formats.
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Hi,
I was in a haste writing my response. The way I see it, MF sensors are clearly out of the main stream. I will not rule out that we see alternative vendors in that area. It needs to either give strategic benefits or decent return on investment. I'm aware of the EPIC large format sensors, but they have not yet materialized. More importantly, I got the impression that there are only a few 4K cinemas and todays DSLR formats are perfectly good for 4K. It's not very clear to me that larger sensors would benefit, and an MF format would mean a lot of change.
Best regards
Erik
While RED has been quiet about it recently, they did introduce the Monstro family, which includes these future formats. The items below come from earlier announcements (and the wiki page), but Red's web site has virtually no mention of them now.
Epic 645 56x42mm 9,334 × 7,000 (9K) 65 16
Epic 617 168x56mm 28,000 × 9,334 (28K) 261 16
I don't know if they'll ever make it, but it certainly seems that any such chip would ipso facto have to support live view in real time.
That's what I was thinking of. But who knows if RED will ever get there. Clearly the staple for video is S35, with FF35 becoming useful for wide formats.
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Hi,
I was in a haste writing my response. The way I see it, MF sensors are clearly out of the main stream. I will not rule out that we see alternative vendors in that area. It needs to either give strategic benefits or decent return on investment. I'm aware of the EPIC large format sensors, but they have not yet materialized. More importantly, I got the impression that there are only a few 4K cinemas and todays DSLR formats are perfectly good for 4K. It's not very clear to me that larger sensors would benefit, and an MF format would mean a lot of change.
Clearly MF sensors will never be mainstream. But even one good MF CMOS sensor on the market would stimulate a round of innovations in the MFD category.
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Hi!
I don't know if any CMOS manufacturer, like Sony, would make large chips. It's really about development and tooling costs. A CMOS based sensor with true live view would be very good for all the Alpa, Arca and Arctec shooters Around there ;-)
Best regards
Erik
Clearly MF sensors will never be mainstream. But even one good MF CMOS sensor on the market would stimulate a round of innovations in the MFD category.
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A translation of the interview:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/168982-translation-kitazawa-interview.html#post1749610
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Sony has an 8K camera out already - the F65, and it's not MF. The future of TV (UHDTV) is supposedly 8K. Source: wikipedia.
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as the the interview is out - full text Japanese and English here: http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/p...ml#post1749610
in my opinion the central sentence is:
"Kitazawa: Well, regarding the 645, sooner or later we will want to make it into a mirrorless. The reason is the mirror shock inherent to SLRs. Those very tiny vibrations do have an effect on the final image. I think in the future I would like to pursue mirrorless full-frame and 645 cameras."
Very , very interesting interview. Thanks to the Pentaxforum for this translation !
regards
Stefan
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The interview sounds like a personal bucket list rather than something that is actually planned. Not that these idea can't become reality, but I would not take this as any sort of product release announcement.