Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on November 09, 2011, 04:00:56 AM

Title: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 09, 2011, 04:00:56 AM
He seems to like it...

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-11666-11988

My findings are a good match for his.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: Gary Brown on November 09, 2011, 10:36:18 AM
Kirk Tuck also has several posts about his opinions and use of the V1. In chronological order (the first three being the main reviews, with additional comments in the other two):

Nikon 1. Counterintuitive. Crazy. And a whole lot of fun. (http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/10/nikon-1-counterintuitive-crazy-and.html)

Nikon V1 part two. Wet performance. (http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/10/nikon-v1-part-two-wet-performance.html)

Just a quick post with a few more Nikon V1 observations. (http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/11/just-quick-post-with-few-more-nikon-v1.html)

Sunday a day off? Naw. It's a day to pack and organize. (http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/11/sunday-day-off-naw-its-day-to-pack-and.html)

What a fascinating three days! High level conference imaging. (http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/11/what-fascinating-three-days-high-level.html)
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: AFairley on November 09, 2011, 12:59:36 PM
Yes, it seems like the people who actually use it like it.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: OldRoy on November 09, 2011, 01:28:11 PM
He seems to like it...

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-11666-11988

My findings are a good match for his.

Cheers,
Bernard

Including the poor Capture NX2 conversions?
This surprised me although he gives no indication what values he used. One assumes that he tried to optimise them.
Roy
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 09, 2011, 03:24:30 PM
Lightroom 3.6 has been supporting the J1/V1 since yesterday. For those who do not like NX2 conversions, this is a good workaround. I was impressed by the amount of detail I could extract from the .nef with a bit of sharpening paramaters tweaking in LR.

The real killer is going to be DxO though, but I guess we'll have to wait a bit for that. The philosophy of DxO is a perfect match:
- One click to capture the image a la Cartier Bresson (camera set to A mode at f2.8 on the 10mm f2.8, AutoIso set to 3200 max, AF set to closed subject priority), zero physical noise, zero UI distraction... the ultimate street camera,
- One click raw conversion in DxO that gets things incredibly close to what you would get by tweaking in LR or C1 Pro.

We live in a wonderful era!

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: ixania2 on November 10, 2011, 06:24:11 AM
Yes, it seems like the people who actually use it like it.

i bought one and sold it after 2 days. IQ not better than several 4/3s  canon g10 et al., much worse than fuji x100. deep menues burying everything.
ok, 5fps or so, so what. buy a machine gun or a video cam.
targeted at snappers who want full-auto. much too expensive for what it delivers.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 10, 2011, 05:10:57 PM
i bought one and sold it after 2 days. IQ not better than several 4/3s  canon g10 et al., much worse than fuji x100. deep menues burying everything.
ok, 5fps or so, so what. buy a machine gun or a video cam.
targeted at snappers who want full-auto. much too expensive for what it delivers.

Did you like the AF?

As far as image quality goes, are you saying that 4/3 and G10 deliver the same level of image quality? If that is your assessement, then I would argue that image quality doesn't matter to you in the first place. :)

Also, do you own a 4/3 camera and G10? Then I am not sure why you even considered the J1.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: ixania2 on November 10, 2011, 06:56:57 PM
Did you like the AF?

As far as image quality goes, are you saying that 4/3 and G10 deliver the same level of image quality? If that is your assessement, then I would argue that image quality doesn't matter to you in the first place. :)

Also, do you own a 4/3 camera and G10? Then I am not sure why you even considered the J1.

Cheers,
Bernard


The af is good, although i can perfectly shoot street and hcb with my fuji x 100 as well. I dont need and dont want a machine gun.
Iq is nearly the same on the better and newer small formats. You wont use it for high art, and for those small snaps they are good enough.
I had no j1 but an v1.  Why? I buy this small stuff like desperate housewives buy stilettos. Its fun.
When talking about hcb - he had more out of focus snaps with burned highs than would be acceptable for most internet cops today. Who cares?
Catch the decisive moments if arising in never-seen compositions. And relax.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 10, 2011, 07:27:01 PM
When talking about hcb - he had more out of focus snaps with burned highs than would be acceptable for most internet cops today.

I wonder what camera he would be using in 2011.

I respect your camera buy-return hobby! :-)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 15, 2011, 11:46:37 PM
Just for fun:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/744|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/516|0/%28brand2%29/Canon

The gap between the Canon 1Ds, the camera once said to have dethroned MF film, the reference for fashion and fine art digital print for years, and a Nikon J1 is...fairly small up to ISO400.

I guess that must be the reason why I feel it is a very decent pocket camera.  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 23, 2011, 10:50:32 PM
The French magazine Reponses photo just had a shoot out of the main mirrorless cameras (Pana, Olympus, Sony and Nikon).

Their main conclusion is that there is very little difference between them in terms of overall image quality, the Nikon V1 gets the highest mark of all by a very small margin. It is said to easily match competition from 4:3 cameras.

It does get the best mark in terms of reactivity though, ahead of DSLRs like the Nikon D7000, Canon 60D for example. No camera, including the D3s and 1DMkIV, gets a better mark in this area.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: OldRoy on November 24, 2011, 06:53:39 AM
Unless I'm even more confused than I think I am, the methodology behind the samples presented in this otherwise lucid review helps obscure the performance of these cameras magnificently.
Not least the fact that everything's been through Noise Ninja. They still look horribly noisy to me though.

Roy
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: uaiomex on November 24, 2011, 05:28:49 PM
Well, well, well. If this accurate, where will the next generation of FF sensors be?  Sensor performance is correlated if developed around the same period of time. FF is the holy grail (I've said that before, sorry). Bigger sensors will turn out to be an overkill. Perhaps they already are. This means more pressure for DMF manufacturers to lower the ridiculous prices.
Eduardo

Just for fun:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/744|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/516|0/%28brand2%29/Canon

The gap between the Canon 1Ds, the camera once said to have dethroned MF film, the reference for fashion and fine art digital print for years, and a Nikon J1 is...fairly small up to ISO400.

I guess that must be the reason why I feel it is a very decent pocket camera.  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard

Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 25, 2011, 12:25:42 AM
Unless I'm even more confused than I think I am, the methodology behind the samples presented in this otherwise lucid review helps obscure the performance of these cameras magnificently.
Not least the fact that everything's been through Noise Ninja. They still look horribly noisy to me though.

I didn't see many details about the measurement process used nor detailed sample images, but perhaps I missed them.

For what is worth, DxO Mark says basically the same thing:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/744|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/724|0/%28brand2%29/Olympus/%28appareil3%29/701|0/%28brand3%29/Panasonic

They are close, with Nikon concentrating more on DR and color quality while the 4:3 sensor have an advantage at higher ISOs.

But anyway, I did a few more hours of casual shooting with the J1 yesterday and just love it. As I mentioned before, the perfect super iPhone experience. Point, click... and 0.3 sec later you have nearly every single time a perfectly exposed and sharp raw file in the box.

It provides a wonderful experience that enables me to concentrate on framing and timing, which I personally think street photography is all about.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: Vivec on November 26, 2011, 02:49:11 PM
For what is worth, DxO Mark says basically the same thing:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/744|0/%28brand%29/Nikon/%28appareil2%29/724|0/%28brand2%29/Olympus/%28appareil3%29/701|0/%28brand3%29/Panasonic

They are close, with Nikon concentrating more on DR and color quality while the 4:3 sensor have an advantage at higher ISOs.

Hi Bernard,
I don't post much but I always enjoy reading your posts and influenced by you, even started doing some stitching recently :-)

However, I think you are a bit overly enthusiastic about the Nikon 1. Sure it seems  a fun small camera but its image quality is not really something to write home about. Comparing to the Olympus and Panasonic M43 is not really useful since their cameras are still using quite old sensor tech. If we compare the J1 against more recent tech, like the NEX-5N and the Pentax K5, we see a big difference:
camera,  score,  range, iso
J1,          56,  11evs, 372iso
NEX-5N,  77,  12.7evs, 1079iso
K5,         82,  14.1evs, 1162iso

dxo mark comparision (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/744%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/737%7C0/(brand2)/Sony/(appareil3)/676%7C0/(brand3)/Pentax)

That is a very big difference in my opinion. In my opinion, the Nikon 1 should be compared more to good P&S cameras. It surely does well there image quality wise, and with the fast AF. However, it is also not really as pocketable as a P&S -- and once you make that compromise, perhaps a NEX or small DSLR may offer more bang for the buck.

Just my 2c.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 27, 2011, 12:23:02 AM
Hi Bernard,
I don't post much but I always enjoy reading your posts and influenced by you, even started doing some stitching recently :-)

However, I think you are a bit overly enthusiastic about the Nikon 1. Sure it seems  a fun small camera but its image quality is not really something to write home about. Comparing to the Olympus and Panasonic M43 is not really useful since their cameras are still using quite old sensor tech. If we compare the J1 against more recent tech, like the NEX-5N and the Pentax K5, we see a big difference:
camera,  score,  range, iso
J1,          56,  11evs, 372iso
NEX-5N,  77,  12.7evs, 1079iso
K5,         82,  14.1evs, 1162iso

dxo mark comparision (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/744%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/737%7C0/(brand2)/Sony/(appareil3)/676%7C0/(brand3)/Pentax)

That is a very big difference in my opinion. In my opinion, the Nikon 1 should be compared more to good P&S cameras. It surely does well there image quality wise, and with the fast AF. However, it is also not really as pocketable as a P&S -- and once you make that compromise, perhaps a NEX or small DSLR may offer more bang for the buck.

Just my 2c.

Yes, the NEX has much better image quality, but the question is whether it matters for the cases when I use a Nikon J1.

My personnal answer is that d80 like image quality like the one provided by the J1 on a camera that gets the focus right in most conditions is what I need.

If I need NEX image quality and can deal with the additional bulk of the lenses, then I will bring my D7000. As I mentioned before, the gap in image quality between a J1 and a Canon 1Ds is small at moderate ISOs, that tells me something about its abilities as a photographic tool.

Quality has zero absolute meaning. Most 4:3 camera users are very happy about the images delivered by their camera relative to their needs. All I am saying is that the J1 does about as well in a slightly smaller, much more responsive and more silent package.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: Vivec on November 27, 2011, 02:01:10 PM
Yes, I can see the argument. However, as soon as you have a separate lens, the Nikon 1 is not *that* much smaller than a NEX with the pancake, or a M43 with small lens. All of the mirror-less have lenses that stick out -- and for me personally, that already means they are not really pocketable; at that point, one may just as well go for the best image quality (in that size/weight range), i.e. M9 or NEX. The Nikon has some nice zoom lenses though!
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: AndreasE on November 28, 2011, 04:25:26 PM
I got my System 1 cameras about 5 weeks ago.

What started as a kind of so-so relationship developed over time into a rather positive thing. As with all photographic gear, nothing will fit all purposes - neither will the System 1 be able doing so. The reason, why I started getting into this system was that for me Nikon did some of the basics right - to be able and the potential to build a solid platform over time around the new mount, like the company proved it for more than 60 years for the F-mount. A camera is a collection of hundreds of attributes - ranging from technical data, to size, to weight, to form, to usability, to agitility, to image quality to price to name a few. It is rather seldom possible to assess the overall performance of a complex technical thing in one aspect.

What is the value of a superior sensor technology, if the AF is not able to focus in a certain condition? What is the merit of a perfect AF, if the sensor is incapable? What is the value of a great package, if the speed of turning on, let the phtographer miss 50% of his opportunities? What is the benefit of having the smallest package, but you need 5 spare batteries to survive a single day? It's the package, not the individual components.

As an (extreme) example: It is significantly easier to get a sharp photo with better resolution with a J1 and the AFS 30-110 set at 110mm (equivalent 300mm) and open aperture vs. a D3x and the 70-300mm VR (Same output size). Due to the optical limitations of the 70-300mm VR at 300mm and wide open, the superior sensor of the D3x is not capable to show its benefits vs. the "weaker" CX sensor. The combination of vibrationless exposure (mirror and shutter), a superior VR (due to lighter lens elements to shift around) and an AF which by the way it is constructed can not exhibit font/back-focus by design and the benefit of a small sensor for the lens design (perpendicular rays through micro lenses, no vignetting wide open, almost no distortion, good flare/reflections characteristics) make the overall difference.

Shooting 300mm (equiv) at 1/40sec handheld and getting sharp images is not the exception it is the norm. 1/5 sec with the 10-30mm @ 30mm (80mm equiv) is no problem either.

It is this level of "ease of use" which turned my view of the System 1 cameras around. This interaction of subtle things can not be deducted from data sheets, it won't tell the whole story if you look at some test charts. It is this kind of utility of a complete system which creates an experience, value and makes fun. I've only shot around 5.000 photos in 5 weeks for myself and most of them turned out to be above what I expected.

Will I give up DSLR cameras and F-mount lenses? No. Is the System 1 a great complementary system? Absolutely. Will other mirrorless camera systems loose their ability to take incredible pictures? Heck, no. Can there be choice? I bet.

This camera will not win hearts and mind by data sheets, but by users actually using it. Photos printed in high quality in A4 are excellent. If the source image is excellent, printing in A3 is no problem as well. Pixel peeper will hate the quality of individual pixels, a specialized quality which is irrelevant for the intended audience interested in great photos taken with ease.

Take it easy,
Andy


 
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: uaiomex on November 28, 2011, 11:40:45 PM
I really liked your post Andy. Clever annotations.

Eduardo




I got my System 1 cameras about 5 weeks ago.

What started as a kind of so-so relationship developed over time into a rather positive thing. As with all photographic gear, nothing will fit all purposes - neither will the System 1 be able doing so. The reason, why I started getting into this system was that for me Nikon did some of the basics right - to be able and the potential to build a solid platform over time around the new mount, like the company proved it for more than 60 years for the F-mount. A camera is a collection of hundreds of attributes - ranging from technical data, to size, to weight, to form, to usability, to agitility, to image quality to price to name a few. It is rather seldom possible to assess the overall performance of a complex technical thing in one aspect.

What is the value of a superior sensor technology, if the AF is not able to focus in a certain condition? What is the merit of a perfect AF, if the sensor is incapable? What is the value of a great package, if the speed of turning on, let the phtographer miss 50% of his opportunities? What is the benefit of having the smallest package, but you need 5 spare batteries to survive a single day? It's the package, not the individual components.

As an (extreme) example: It is significantly easier to get a sharp photo with better resolution with a J1 and the AFS 30-110 set at 110mm (equivalent 300mm) and open aperture vs. a D3x and the 70-300mm VR (Same output size). Due to the optical limitations of the 70-300mm VR at 300mm and wide open, the superior sensor of the D3x is not capable to show its benefits vs. the "weaker" CX sensor. The combination of vibrationless exposure (mirror and shutter), a superior VR (due to lighter lens elements to shift around) and an AF which by the way it is constructed can not exhibit font/back-focus by design and the benefit of a small sensor for the lens design (perpendicular rays through micro lenses, no vignetting wide open, almost no distortion, good flare/reflections characteristics) make the overall difference.

Shooting 300mm (equiv) at 1/40sec handheld and getting sharp images is not the exception it is the norm. 1/5 sec with the 10-30mm @ 30mm (80mm equiv) is no problem either.

It is this level of "ease of use" which turned my view of the System 1 cameras around. This interaction of subtle things can not be deducted from data sheets, it won't tell the whole story if you look at some test charts. It is this kind of utility of a complete system which creates an experience, value and makes fun. I've only shot around 5.000 photos in 5 weeks for myself and most of them turned out to be above what I expected.

Will I give up DSLR cameras and F-mount lenses? No. Is the System 1 a great complementary system? Absolutely. Will other mirrorless camera systems loose their ability to take incredible pictures? Heck, no. Can there be choice? I bet.

This camera will not win hearts and mind by data sheets, but by users actually using it. Photos printed in high quality in A4 are excellent. If the source image is excellent, printing in A3 is no problem as well. Pixel peeper will hate the quality of individual pixels, a specialized quality which is irrelevant for the intended audience interested in great photos taken with ease.

Take it easy,
Andy


 

Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 02, 2011, 08:46:08 AM
I am just back from a few days in Europe where I used the J1 as a pocket camera. It is indeed just perfect, small, prefect exposure (zero correction applied to any of the images), flawless focus, totally silent and pretty decent image quality.

I have added them to my J1 set on flickr. These were converted using LR3.6, I am eagerly waiting for the Nikon J1 support in DxO v7 considering the quality of their high ISO conversions!

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7173/6441381287_a52f444790_o.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6441385047_e9b34be539_o.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6441384325_09f573dd4a_o.jpg)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/72157627982747408/with/6441381413/

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: kirktuck on December 02, 2011, 05:49:40 PM
The more I work with the little Nikon V1 the more I find to like about it.  We shot in the studio this morning for a children's play.  With the camera at 100 ISO what is not to like?

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/12/apple-boxes-very-mundane-accessory.html
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: AndreasE on December 02, 2011, 06:09:20 PM
Kirk,
love your down to earth stories. I am waiting on getting my V1 back to be able to use the small flash like you do. The J1 can't twist the flash head ....

Cheers and keep them coming,
Andy
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BJL on December 02, 2011, 07:16:01 PM
... as soon as you have a separate lens, the Nikon 1 is not *that* much smaller than a NEX with the pancake, or a M43 with small lens. All of the mirror-less have lenses that stick out ...
The single moderately wide angle option of a pancake prime does not cover everyone's needs, so for people like me, one key question is how portable/pocketable is the camera with a standard zoom lens attached? That is one place where the NEX system fails for now, with its relatively bulky zooms. M4/3 instead now has two standard zooms that collapse for transportation, with in particular the combination of Panasonic's new GX1 and 14-42 X looking quite "jacket-pocketable". I do not know how the V1 with 10-30 compares for overall size with lens retracted, but at a guess its jacket-pocketability is distinctly better than any m4/3, NEX,  NX, or DSLR body with a non-collapsing zoom, but not as good as the GX1+14-42X zoom combo.

P.S. no-one talks about the Samsung NX system around here.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 02, 2011, 08:26:43 PM
P.S. no-one talks about the Samsung NX system around here.

Yep.

It is a pity as they seem to be producing tools able to produce very good images.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: AndreasE on December 03, 2011, 08:02:28 AM
The single moderately wide angle option of a pancake prime does not cover everyone's needs, so for people like me, one key question is how portable/pocketable is the camera with a standard zoom lens attached?

The biggest size benefit the CX based System 1 can play to its advantage is the size of the camera&lens with the telezoom. The smaller sensor allows Nikon to build significantly smalelr lenses at the longer end. Take the 30-110mm as an example and compare it to the lenses of cameras with bigger sensors. The size difference at the shorter end is negligible.

BTW, the 30-110mm (equiv. 80-300mm @ FX) is the best lens in the current line-up of 4 System 1 lenses. Imho.

regards,
Andy
 
Title: I played with the PD 10mm-100mm Nikon Series 1 lens today.
Post by: kirktuck on December 08, 2011, 10:23:14 PM
It's a great lens for video people.  And photographers who cross over.  The system lenses are better, overall, for still work.  More?

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2011/12/nikon-series-one-10mm-100mm-kirk-review.html
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 09, 2011, 11:44:21 AM
I have just added a few snaps captured in Seoul during a very quick walk through some old parts of the city.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7141/6482379111_f71598f4bd_o.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6482379465_b1a0c0e99c_o.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7169/6482379289_d4c14fdabd_o.jpg)

More after the link.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/72157627982747408/

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: AlexRobinson on December 10, 2011, 05:52:53 PM
Yep.

It is a pity as they seem to be producing tools able to produce very good images.

Cheers,
Bernard

I actually wound up buying an NX200, I was sold after Samsung lent us a sample to play with (Sadly there's only us and one other shop that stocks it in NZ so it mostly flies under the radar with people), viewfinder wasn't such a concern for me, while the NEX 7 has a fantastic one I know Samsung will have the same viewfinder or better in the NX20 next year. I love the size, it's tiny (with a 20mm it's the same size as an X10) and the files are plenty sharp and seem fine enough up to 800 ISO—I won't brave high ISO until Adobe supports the camera because the Samsung software is total crap to use. Samsung's prime lenses are indeed very nice, sharp enough and most importantly compact. They've even got a 24mm Zeiss rival coming next year which could be fun.

Downsides are enormous RAW files, 45mb a pop and it demands fast cards too. Normal Class 10 cards just take forever to process and I had to sink money into a 32GB 95 Mb/s Sandisk card. I have no idea why they're so big, a 5DII with roughly the same resolution is about half that file size. I guess Samsung doesn't compress at all or at least efficiently. Also locks you out of controls for a second or two when shooting RAW so this isn't a speed demon camera. Having said that, it's not a big issue as I generally don't change ISO very often so really all I'm changing is aperture and shutter speed which don't freeze. The UI is beautiful though, I wonder why Japan lags so far behind in this compared to Samsung?

I'm pretty happy with my choice, it's a huge shift to be able to get SLR quality in something so tiny, a total revelation to someone who's used to carting round Nikon SLR gear and a Pentax 67. I only worry about the weather sealing, I've shot with my Nikons in rain and bad conditions with no protection more times than I can count without issue. Other thing is finding the right bag for it, at the moment I'm using an old Sigma lens case to carry it. Also, why these cameras come with a neck strap is beyond me, does anyone actually use one on a camera this small? it has—or rather had those stupid triangle strap things on it which dig into your hands which I despise. I just use a little wrist strap off a compact camera and it's much better.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 10, 2011, 08:19:07 PM
RRS now has an L bracket for the V1.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=B1V1-L-Set&type=4&eq=

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: OldRoy on December 11, 2011, 10:25:56 AM
RRS now has an L bracket for the V1.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=B1V1-L-Set&type=4&eq=

Cheers,
Bernard

Terrific value, as ever....
Roy
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 11, 2011, 09:44:58 PM
Terrific value, as ever....
Roy

Well, the V1 is a camera that is of course designed and optimized to be used handheld, but its low ISO performance is similar to that a Canon 1Ds of a few years back in terms of DR, resolution,... so it might in fact make sense to use it on a tripod in some cases.

This one was shot handeheld at 110m (300mm equivalent). Some of the blur was added in post:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/6492563885_15dc1b3fae_o.jpg)

Cheers,
Bernard

Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 13, 2011, 05:35:04 PM
Thom Hogan has now his review online:

http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/nikon-j1-review.html

For those who do not know him, Thom is IMHO the best digital photography resource on the internet.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: UBUS on December 18, 2011, 08:27:07 AM
Another comprehensive review/field test of the the Nikon V1 (part one) by Brad Hill


http://naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html (http://naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html)



Cheers

ubus
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: JBerardi on December 18, 2011, 09:38:36 AM
Quality has zero absolute meaning. Most 4:3 camera users are very happy about the images delivered by their camera relative to their needs. All I am saying is that the J1 does about as well in a slightly smaller, much more responsive and more silent package.

Cheers,
Bernard


The image quality that Nikon is squeezing out of the smaller sensor in the 1 series cameras is impressive. But isn't that all about the 1s having very advanced sensor technology? I mean, if you stitched a bunch of J1 sensors together into a 4/3s sized sensor, you'd have a way better 4/3s sensor than any of the ones that are currently available... right? Isn't it fair to assume that, even if they're similar today, the m4/3s system has a much higher theoretical ceiling on it's image quality?

And to be clear, I'm not saying the 1 cameras are bad because they have small sensors. It's not like there's no advantages to a smaller sensor. I'm just wondering if my assumptions about the two systems going forward are accurate.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 18, 2011, 10:11:32 AM
True, but not all sensors are commodity items that can be bought off the shelf.

Camera companies have been investing a lot of cash to create sensor differentiation, by themsleves or with partners. Canon was successful at that game for many years. Since 2007 Sony and Nikon seem to have the upper hand. It remains to be seen to what extend Panasonic decides to invest more in sensor technology to tap into the potential of their sensor size.

In the end though, what really matters is the not the absolute quality, but the quality relative to your needs. In other words, are the current 4:3/J1-V1 not good enough for what you would like to do with them? According to DxO Mark, up to ISO 400 the sensor of the J1 is nearly as good as a Canon 1ds, the full frame reference most pro landscape/fashion shooters were using 6 or 7 yers ago to sell fine art (still on display today). With probably better AF and more accurate exposure. Is that really not good enough for those cases when you intend to use a mirrorless camera?

Following image was shot at ISO1100 with a bit of noise reduction in post. I had been focusing on the sunset more to the right. I realized in an instant that the train was leaving and just reframed and pressed the shutter, that took perhaps .5 sec and the J1 managed to focus on something... I had to leave 2 mins after and that was the only chance to get the shot.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6528420541_51a97d4e6f_o.jpg)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 10, 2012, 02:49:23 AM
For those interested, Uwe Steinmueller has recently published his review of the V1:

http://www.outbackphoto.com/CONTENT_2007_01/section_gear_cameras_2012/201201103_Nikon_V1_J1/index.html

He seems to like it a lot.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: dreed on January 10, 2012, 02:37:52 PM
In the end though, what really matters is the not the absolute quality, but the quality relative to your needs. In other words, are the current 4:3/J1-V1 not good enough for what you would like to do with them? According to DxO Mark, up to ISO 400 the sensor of the J1 is nearly as good as a Canon 1ds, the full frame reference most pro landscape/fashion shooters were using 6 or 7 years ago to sell fine art (still on display today). With probably better AF and more accurate exposure. Is that really not good enough for those cases when you intend to use a mirrorless camera?

I think there is a huge challenge here.

The first is psychological - is an expensive camera still required to "get the shot"?
As a professional, if you turn up to a shoot with a model holding a J1/V1, are you going to be taken seriously?
Would you get asked to leave and come back with a real camera if you had a NEX or similar small camera, despite the merits of its IQ?

The next is for the manufacturers.
If cameras such as the J1, NEX, etc, can provide the IQ of professional cameras from as little as 6 years ago, then how do you justify your client base spending 5 or more times the price of something like a NEX series camera? Interestingly, both the D4 and 1DX come with something that you'll never find on small cameras: built in gigabit networking. And then there's battery life, ease of use whilst rotated 90 degrees, autofocus tracking but the list is getting shorter...

The real danger is for the DSLRs in the sub-$3000 price range, especially those where the autofocus isn't particularly good/reliable and the feature set is rather, well, "basic". Does that remind you of anyone? (Hello Canon!) So then to replace the DSLR with cheaper and equally capable cameras that are smaller just requires overcoming various hurdles in our mind about what a camera needs to be in order to create a worthwhile image.

To this end, if I had the choice of a NEX-7 and A77SLT, I'd go with the NEX-7 because the A77SLT doesn't offer me anything that the NEX-7 doesn't have. If I get right down to it, all that I need is a bunch of "C" locations along with PASM and accurate (100% magnification) review. Accuracy of metering is pointless because I nearly always ETR and that more or less boils down to tweaking things to get the histogram as far to the right as possible without blowing, so to that end, how well the camera gets the white balance or 1/50 vs 1/80 is meaningless to me.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 10, 2012, 05:40:55 PM
The next is for the manufacturers.
If cameras such as the J1, NEX, etc, can provide the IQ of professional cameras from as little as 6 years ago, then how do you justify your client base spending 5 or more times the price of something like a NEX series camera? Interestingly, both the D4 and 1DX come with something that you'll never find on small cameras: built in gigabit networking. And then there's battery life, ease of use whilst rotated 90 degrees, autofocus tracking but the list is getting shorter...

The real danger is for the DSLRs in the sub-$3000 price range, especially those where the autofocus isn't particularly good/reliable and the feature set is rather, well, "basic". Does that remind you of anyone? (Hello Canon!) So then to replace the DSLR with cheaper and equally capable cameras that are smaller just requires overcoming various hurdles in our mind about what a camera needs to be in order to create a worthwhile image.

I wonder if you would not be underestimating by a large margin the impact marketing has on us.  ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: armand on January 20, 2012, 05:26:04 PM
It seems that not everybody is in love with these: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/
Too bad, my search for a compact camera for travel or light hiking is still on.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: stever on January 20, 2012, 09:01:33 PM
i've been looking pretty seriously at these alternative for some time now and have a GX-1 on order as the best compromise of size/weight and image quality combined with a UI that doesn't have serious errors or omissions.  although i will try to avoid spending money on lenses, it's reassuring that Panasonic has a pretty full range of high quality lenses available now rather than some day. 

all of the mirrorless cameras/systems have errors/omissions/problems so it's a matter of deciding which is the least bad for your purposes (with the understanding that not just the camera, but the whole system may need to be replaced in 2 or 3 years)
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 21, 2012, 01:33:32 AM
It seems that not everybody is in love with these: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/
Too bad, my search for a compact camera for travel or light hiking is still on.

I find their conclusions fair and extemely close to those of the other reviews.

Simply put: very good AF, image quality on par to that of the 12 mp 4/3, streamlined interface.

Among the negatives I agree that the bias of auto iso for low Iso is too strong and that should be corrected. Other than that not much to worry about really.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BJL on January 21, 2012, 08:08:22 AM
I find their conclusions fair and extemely close to those of the other reviews.

Simply put: very good AF, image quality on par to that of the 12 mp 4/3, streamlined interface.
I agree that this review is about "this camera is good for thus use case, not that", not a "thumbs down"?


But I do see two strange things, weighing in opposite directions:

- The familiar nonsense of looking at body size only rather than a complete working camera size, in complaining that the smaller sensor format has not produced a size advantage. And when the smaller lens size is mentioned, much later, it is phrased initially as mostly a disadvantage!  And the equally familiar and annoying theme that "being smaller and lighter is only a significant advantage if it makes the camera pocketable, which is only achieved with a prime lens". (if pocketability is the only reason a photographer would accept the IQ disadvantages of a smaller format, Leica's new-fangled 35mm "compact format" would never have succeeded against the well-established larger formats.)

- Comparing to the older 12MP 4/3" sensor, a product line that goes back to November 2008, is strange given that newer, better performing 4/3" sensor options like the 16MP sensor of the GX1 are available.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 22, 2012, 02:52:35 AM
- Comparing to the older 12MP 4/3" sensor, a product line that goes back to November 2008, is strange given that newer, better performing 4/3" sensor options like the 16MP sensor of the GX1 are available.

True in many ways but I believe that it is still relevant to compare to the 12mp 4/3 though for the following reasons:
- they must represent 95% of the 4/3 cameras out there and are therefore a widely known benchmark,
- most people using them have been boasting about the image quality for months which means that that image quality is good enough for what they have been doing with those cameras.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BJL on January 22, 2012, 09:49:07 AM
True in many ways but I believe that it is still relevant to compare to the 12mp 4/3 though for the following reasons:
- they must represent 95% of the 4/3 cameras out there and are therefore a widely known benchmark,
- most people using them have been boasting about the image quality for months which means that that image quality is good enough for what they have been doing with those cameras.
Bernard,
Yes, that makes sense if intended as a "never mind the spec sheet and lab test obsesives, this sensor is as good as one that most actual customers are quite happy with".  At least if addresssed to an audience of people who judge things by a more normal, mainstream "good enough sensor, let me move on to consider other aspects like portability, and ease of use". And hopefully, that is a large share of the natural market for such a camera.

Actually, in this context it is historically appropriate to use for comparison the sensor for which the "good enough resolution" idea was stated in an unusually explicit way by an Olympus rep (so often misquoted and misinterpreted) "12MP is enough for _most_ purposes of _most_ photographers."
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: armand on February 17, 2012, 08:36:03 PM
Some nice pictures taken in Myanmar with a V1 and nice comments about real world use: http://phototravelasia.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-01-27T22:29:00-08:00&max-results=10
If you go to the home page he has some nice ones from Vietnam also.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 18, 2012, 12:52:10 AM
Some nice pictures taken in Myanmar with a V1 and nice comments about real world use: http://phototravelasia.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-01-27T22:29:00-08:00&max-results=10
If you go to the home page he has some nice ones from Vietnam also.

Thks, interesting read.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 23, 2012, 06:32:24 PM
DxO has just announced the support of the J1/V1 as of 7.2.1.

Currently they only have a lens module for the lens needing it most, the 10-30. First results are encouraging...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on February 24, 2012, 04:42:10 AM
I am a "recent convert" to the 1 series, having just bought a J1 with the 10-30 lens. For what I want a small camera to do, it fits the bill perfectly. The other day I went for a stroll in one of the old quarters of Lisbon (I am from Portugal), just to test what this little camera was capable of doing. This is the type of photography that I use compact cameras for; walking around just photographing interesting things, not being burdened by a heavier/bulkier camera, while still getting high quality files.

I just set the camera to aperture priority and auto ISO, and that's it. Some images follow (Raw and Lightroom).
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: Tord S Eriksson on March 16, 2012, 06:25:24 PM
Yeah, for me it has replaced most of my DSLRs, except for long lenses (I have no long ones with Nikon Mount), but up to 400mm the V1 works really well (actually Tokina 1.4X screw-on lens, Nikon 30- 110, x 2.7 magnification factor. Many use up to 600mm lenses on their V1s - I am not there yet - my longest is a Nikon 80-200 manual lens!
Title: V1 in Mexico for a month
Post by: hsteeves on March 18, 2012, 01:28:06 PM
I spent February On Cuzumel.  Took a D7000/5 lens outfit and a V1/3 lenses.  The V1/10-30 I could carry in a pocket of my shorts, 30-100 in the other side if I wanted it. Occasionally threw the flash in a shirt pocket with a flap.  This camera was just so handy - took 80% of my photos with it.  Only thing it didn't do well was the 50/1.8g and FT-1 combo at night for the Carnival parade. oh, and that stupid, loose dial on the back that accesses things I really don't want.  The V1 took a bit of a beating and got wet and survived.
Title: Re: Rob Galbraith reviews the Nikon J1/V1
Post by: Tord S Eriksson on March 19, 2012, 03:32:40 AM
Yesterday we did some bird photography, and the light was bad (very overcast), so the only problem with the V1 was that I felt forced to use the 50/1.4G AF-S (and the TF1) instead of the 30-110, which would have been more suitable. So the shot of the wife came out better than the birds - you can't win 'em all!

Hope Nikon really makes some speedier lenses for the J1/V1, SOON! Say a 200/2.8 ;-)!

All the best,

Tord

PS The wider the lens, the more useful is having lots of pixels and physically big sensors. If I ever get a MF, or FF, camera I'll be using it with a 20 (or around there).