Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Pro Business Discussion => Topic started by: Fritzer on October 05, 2011, 03:15:59 pm
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I feel like moving, must be an age thing ...
A question for those of you who work internationally - what place do you think might be best to do advertising photography ?
I've been living and working mainly in the US and Germany as a still life photographer for a couple of decades; those are the places my agent covers, and to a degree the rest of Europe .
Both markets have been hit heavily by the ongoing economic crisis; Germany hasn't been great to begin with, usage rights in particular, and I doubt the US are going to recover anytime soon, if ever.
Maybe go to Australia, Singapore, Hongkong ?
I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts .
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Benjamin Kanarek wrote about the places to be for fashion (editorial and advertising) recently in one of his cross-posted blog posts which might be a good place to start.
I'm considering relocating within Europe myself, but my day job is not photography. If you're planning to relocate indefinitely or permanently, climate plays a big role. Hong Kong was on my shortlist as I just love the place, until I realized they have several months of 30+ degrees at 100% humidity. Not sure if I could ever get used to that, no matter how much AC there is. HK is in a prime location for the Chinese market, though, and no matter what industry one is working in it would be a location with bright medium-term prospects. Long-term is another matter which I won't get into in here (mainly to do with political and demographic stability of China). Currently looking at Paris FWIW.
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I feel like moving, must be an age thing ...
A question for those of you who work internationally - what place do you think might be best to do advertising photography ?
I've been living and working mainly in the US and Germany as a still life photographer for a couple of decades; those are the places my agent covers, and to a degree the rest of Europe .
Both markets have been hit heavily by the ongoing economic crisis; Germany hasn't been great to begin with, usage rights in particular, and I doubt the US are going to recover anytime soon, if ever.
Maybe go to Australia, Singapore, Hongkong ?
I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts .
Greece would be great! ;) :) :D ;D ;D ;D Just a joke... Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Greece would be great! ;) :) :D ;D ;D ;D Just a joke... Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
Ya know dooode...just because LuLa allows you to use emoticons doesn't mean you have to use than multiple times. It makes you look juvenile and incapable of expressing yourself using words. So, cut it out will ya? A little self discipline will go a long way toward fitting in here.
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Greece would be great! ;) :) :D ;D ;D ;D Just a joke... Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
Yeah, he could ask for the 1,450 EUR back you and your countrymen owe every single household in the EU for your bailouts. No joke. Oh, and the 1,450 EUR is just the tip of the iceberg before your country goes bankrupt and then we really need to start paying.
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Yeah, he could ask for the 1,450 EUR back you and your countrymen owe every single household in the EU for your bailouts. No joke. Oh, and the 1,450 EUR is just the tip of the iceberg before your country goes bankrupt and then we really need to start paying.
Political corruption has nothing to do with me or the Greeks, its mostly our wealth that has been stolen, but isn't this a conversation that belongs elsewhere? I only quoted a joke, never tried to open such a conversation. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Political corruption has nothing to do with me or the Greeks, its mostly our wealth that has been stolen, but isn't this a conversation that belongs elsewhere? I only quoted a joke, never tried to open such a conversation. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
It's not only the politicians' fault, that's dodging the blame. Tax evasion is one of the main drivers for the problems of Greece (Greece tax income is 4.7% of GDP, EU average is 8% (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=apSz28ifLL9U) from an article written well before the meltdown), and that's a systemic issue: corruption at all levels of the society.
But yeah, this is not the place for this discussion - although it is relevant for anyone considering moving to Greece as they will be the ones paying the bills of Greek profligacy. Then again, everybody in EU will be paying those bills for generations...
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Political corruption has nothing to do with me or the Greeks, its mostly our wealth that has been stolen, but isn't this a conversation that belongs elsewhere? I only quoted a joke, never tried to open such a conversation. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
I wouldn't have opened this topic either, but now that you've stated that "Political corruption has nothing to do with me or the Greeks" I have to protest. The Greek government is very much to blame for this. Borrowing money to double public sector pay is textbook corruption if you ask me. The Greeks shouldn't be protesting about austerity measures - they should be marching on their parliament with pitchforks in hand.
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I wouldn't have opened this topic either, but now that you've stated that "Political corruption has nothing to do with me or the Greeks" I have to protest. The Greek government is very much to blame for this. Borrowing money to double public sector pay is textbook corruption if you ask me. The Greeks shouldn't be protesting about austerity measures - they should be marching on their parliament with pitchforks in hand.
Most of the Greeks don't disagree with you Michael..., the others are the ones that have a family member in the public sector.., buying votes by staffing people in the public sector is political corruption isn't it? Please Michael let's not continue this... it hurts. It started as a self-sarchasm joke. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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How about Brasil? Or Miami ?
And let's leave Greece for the Greeks to take care of.
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And let's leave Greece for the Greeks to take care of.
I wish that was the case, but every single person in European Union (and in many other countries) will be paying the bills of Greek society's corruption along with interest for literally generations.
Yeah yeah, I know, don't keep bringing it up and I'll shut up.
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OK! Back to the OP. I'll still suggest Greece..., better whether, lots of inspiration, great cultural background and foreground and plenty of ...subjects! If your subject is advertising and your client a local booker in an EU country, you won't deal with the heavy taxation at all, ....just make sure that your client will pay you, ...as well as the Hotels, plane tickets, ship tickets and catalogs that he will produce..., alternative is Spain of course or Italy. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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I feel like moving, must be an age thing ...
A question for those of you who work internationally - what place do you think might be best to do advertising photography ?
I've been living and working mainly in the US and Germany as a still life photographer for a couple of decades; those are the places my agent covers, and to a degree the rest of Europe .
Both markets have been hit heavily by the ongoing economic crisis; Germany hasn't been great to begin with, usage rights in particular, and I doubt the US are going to recover anytime soon, if ever.
Maybe go to Australia, Singapore, Hongkong ?
I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts .
But maybe your open post is somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong) talking about local market and not that much international because from an international point of view, the best places aren't the one where the economy works best but the ones where the infrastructures are. In other words, if you plan to have an international carreer in advertising, wich is perfectly fine as a goal, there is no better place than the places we already know because wherever you are located, you will work worldwide once your reputation settled. Problem: the competition is tough in Europe and North America and need very good skills in surrounding yourself by the correct persons. Very different is a view on a local market where yes it is important to know if the economy is pushing or sinking.
Locally, avoid Argentina, Chile, Center America but maybe Brasil (take care about business laws in Brasil and also about not loosing focus on your work because of women there except Sao Paulo...)
Avoid Oceania, Russia and Africa then you pretty much have Asia as the newplayer (but less interesting than Brasil for dates) and some pushing Arab countries in the Gulf (forget about the dates there...).
India might be interesting to studdy.
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forget about the dates there...)
Actually the dates here are pretty good
(http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dates.jpg)
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Actually the dates here are pretty good
(http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dates.jpg)
Greatly done Graham! Had a good laugh. (in french also dates mean the fruit but not the other meaning wich would be "plans" or "rendez-vous")
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I have the same thoughts. I've been living and working in the Netherlands. What place do you think might be best to do Architectural photography?
Maybe go to Spain, Australia, Singapore, Hongkong ?
I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts.
Gr,
www.fotostudiohart.nl (http://www.fotostudiohart.nl)
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Thanks for the replies - I'll skip Greece, though . ;)
But maybe your open post is somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong) talking about local market and not that much international because from an international point of view, the best places aren't the one where the economy works best but the ones where the infrastructures are. In other words, if you plan to have an international carreer in advertising, wich is perfectly fine as a goal, there is no better place than the places we already know because wherever you are located, you will work worldwide once your reputation settled. Problem: the competition is tough in Europe and North America and need very good skills in surrounding yourself by the correct persons. Very different is a view on a local market where yes it is important to know if the economy is pushing or sinking.
Thanks Fred, good thoughts .
I'm thinking in terms of global economy, and whether moving to a different part of the world might improve my business.
Right now I am located in both New York and Hamburg, Germany, with advertising clients mostly from the US, Germany, France and the UK .
So you could call it an 'international carreer', which has been moderately successful for about 20 years .
Of course location is only one factor, but the one I'm most curious about at the moment.
I've heard about the emerging markets in South America, but some people told me the pay wasn't that great - and it all comes down to that, doesn't it ? ;)
As for the Middle East and Asia, it'd be very interesting to hear about experiences, how people approach those markets, and if one needs to be located in the area to get a foot in the door .
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Having been through the process of relocating myself, things such as; language, local selling cycles, openness to new talent, creativity of the local market as well as the density of assignments, can all be as important as the economy in determining one's success.
I am curious about your experience in Germany.... 'Germany hasn't been great to begin with, usage rights in particular' what is it that has been underwhelming for you?
DC
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I've heard about the emerging markets in South America, but some people told me the pay wasn't that great - and it all comes down to that, doesn't it ? ;)
I would not trust south america except Brasil if your goal is stricktly commercial.
Argentina is a complete mess and their recent boom is speculative, wich means it will collapse soon or later and they'll be back in the corralito. I had 2 argentinian girlfriends those recent years and I know how uncertain and unreliable those countries can be. Politicians are corrupted and people controled by football games (bread and games...). Those are not serious places for boosting an international career, but if life quality is part of your goal, that's a different story and South America could be very interesting.
But then, it is also interesting to be where the others aren't.
Asia is certainly more serious.
You know what? I would follow my heart (intuition) and not my logical brain in such a choice. If you like the place, you will grow for sure. IMO.
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The best market is where you have your network of contacts. Things are already competitive enough without moving to a new country and having no client network at all.
If you're looking for a magical place where there are no photographers and they're prepared to pay high rates, I think you'll be looking for a long time.
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I just had to sign up to LL to comment on this post.
I have been working in Hong Kong for the past 10 years.
Problem here is getting paid. Advertising agencies have a policy to pay you after 12 month... if you are lucky. They prefer to hold on for 18 month. And you need to pay all the production costs, as they dont deal with photographers- only production companies.
Smaller clients are better, but you still feel like you are fighting a war just to get paid.
The Asian culture is very very different to what we are used to dealing with in the west. I have not met any photographers here that could hold on to a client for more than a few years. They dont value a long term work relationship, so even if you land a job,.. and do a REALLY good job, that dosent guarantee the client will consider you again.
China was the way to go 5-10 years ago. But you need to speak chinese.
I think Australia would be great!
just my 2 cents
Jonas
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There are very many things that factor into this. I currently live and work in Copenhagen Denmark, and the marked here has taken a hit, like most others have.
I lived most of 2008 in Beijing China, I don't speak Chinese but I did fine. In fact I am moving back to Shanghai next year, if you can manage with the culture and climate I think China is a good spot to be.
I guess time will time if I am right, I am at least very much looking forward to the adventure and inspiration that comes with relocation.
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I am curious about your experience in Germany.... 'Germany hasn't been great to begin with, usage rights in particular' what is it that has been underwhelming for you?
Well, in other European countries and the US my fees are usually 2-4 times of what I can get in Germany, and usage rights hardly ever get paid anymore, or only little .
Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy my work wherever I am, and whatever they pay me, but German agencies tend to treat photographers worse than those in other places I know.
Also, some of the larger clients have developed policies that can actually ruin you if you accept certain assignments and payment schedules .
The best market is where you have your network of contacts. Things are already competitive enough without moving to a new country and having no client network at all.
If you're looking for a magical place where there are no photographers and they're prepared to pay high rates, I think you'll be looking for a long time.
I don't really have a steady client network, it's more about my agent's network in my case .
As for 'magical' place, give me some credit - I'm not that naive ... ;)
I just had to sign up to LL to comment on this post.
I have been working in Hong Kong for the past 10 years.
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Thanks very much, Jonas, that's valuable information !
I've been told about the role of production companies in (parts of ?) Asia , and that they actually are crucial for assigning jobs to photographers .
Is that correct ? If so, how do you approach self-promotion ?
... I am at least very much looking forward to the adventure and inspiration that comes with relocation.
Good point .
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I don't know if that would help, but I've been learning that when you follow your heart, you get much better, and (important), faster results.
I mean by that, that you can be tempted to be rational and try to get as much infos as you can. This, is the hard way because it always take time, efforts and energy, and that's the way the mind works. Mind likes rational things, proofs of all kinds and is unable to "see" through the mist. But the greatest accomplishments, moves, sucessfull changes aren't the ones that obey to the mind, but the ones that obey to the heart, or the soul, or whatever we can label that, that's not important.
Get your goal in focus, then do...nothing (keep going your daily ocupations without putting any sort of pressure and try to keep the mind away, it's not its business). Something will show-up very soon that will tell you where. All you have to do is being prepared to read the signs. Energy cost: zero. Efficiency: 100%.