Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: Steve Weldon on September 29, 2011, 09:13:21 am
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Everyone pre-order theirs already? I did. I even wrote a short piece on my reasoning here (http://www.bangkokimages.com/Articles/Equipment/entryid/1082/Ordering-a-Amazon-Kindle-Fire.aspx). Shameless I know.. ;o)
Really, for $199 it looks to be incredibly useful and it has the essential features I personally need, and I think many more will need. I think the $199 price will seriously impact Apple Ipad sales and further boost Amazon's cloud based services and their ebooks and movie streaming service.. Tie that in to their Prime membership with free 2-day shipping and it starts to look like a very effective marketing tool as well.
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I'd love to get an e-reader, but only when Amazon gets rid of DRM and fixes their TOS (ie. they can and do delete your books off your device if they so desire).
As a tablet Fire has more things than just a reader going for it, though. And the price is right. How's the battery life supposed to be when watching video?
I think you could have slipped in the product name and keywords into the blog post a few more times for even more google-fu :P
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Ordered: Despite my hesitations regarding Android in general. As a device for photography - pretty much worthless with only 8gb storage. Maybe for presentation, it'll be intersting to compare display quality.
I am a voracious reader - before Amazon, my book budget averaged 150-200 month, now i'm well below $50.
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I'm still really really happy with my Ipad 1, even more so since I started using it with Phase One Capture Pilot. So no, no pre-order for me :)
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I'd love to get an e-reader, but only when Amazon gets rid of DRM and fixes their TOS (ie. they can and do delete your books off your device if they so desire).
As a tablet Fire has more things than just a reader going for it, though. And the price is right. How's the battery life supposed to be when watching video?
I think you could have slipped in the product name and keywords into the blog post a few more times for even more google-fu :P
a. I agree about DRM, but so far I haven't found this a problem in my personal use. I'll be curious to see if other ebook readers work on this which aren't DRM.. I'd assume there will be, but so far we don't know.
b. Yes, it's got a lot going for it. If I use it just for ebooks I'll be content, and if I can get aps that allow functionality with my photography I'll be more than content..
c. Yes, the price is certainly right. I think the price will turn out to be the key to the Fire's success, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it steadily drop as the Kindle Readers have done.
d. Thank you, I was worried about this.. ;o)
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Ordered: Despite my hesitations regarding Android in general. As a device for photography - pretty much worthless with only 8gb storage. Maybe for presentation, it'll be intersting to compare display quality.
I am a voracious reader - before Amazon, my book budget averaged 150-200 month, now i'm well below $50.
a. I'm wondering about this.. and how well it will sync to my home based FTP with a 20mbps upstream.. or possibly with my Amazon S3 account. It's possible this will be my first successful foray into cloud based storage for photography. I know I could test this out with any PC/Laptop.. but because they have their own large storage I only use the FTP for access to archived work. With the Fire I'll be forced to use it for most, or not at all.
b. I am as well. I use my Lenovo x201s (a 2.4 pound 12.1" laptop) with the Kindle Reader ap now and it works out well enough. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Fire will be an improvement.
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I'm still really really happy with my Ipad 1, even more so since I started using it with Phase One Capture Pilot. So no, no pre-order for me :)
I suspect Ipad owners will find little or no reason to 'upgrade' to a Kindle Fire. I think their market is those who haven't yet purchased a tablet, and maybe current Ipad owners will a 2nd or 3rd tablet for family members or other uses desirable at the $199 entry price.
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As an iPad2 user, the biggest fault with the Kindle Fire is the same as the original iPad, no camera. The Kindle Fire also lacks 3G mobile capability, it is WiFi only.
It is really not an iPad competitor.
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As an iPad2 user, the biggest fault with the Kindle Fire is the same as the original iPad, no camera. The Kindle Fire also lacks 3G mobile capability, it is WiFi only.
It is really not an iPad competitor.
a. I wouldn't use a camera on my tablet. I don't use the one on my phone either, and it's a decent one.
b. 3g I think is a useful feature. Still, I'll get along fine without it and I'm curious to see how many others will too.
c. Anything people buy when their next choice would have been an Ipad.. is a competitor. But where Amazon will really compete with Apple will be with their streaming movies/tv/music downloads and cloud based services.. Their $79 a year all you can eat price will be highly competitive with any service out there. Especially when you consider the other benefits of the Prime program. The initial talk is their cloud enhanced Silk browser is going to change the rules..
At equal pricing I don't think the Kindle Fire is competition for the Ipad on a hardware level.. but at equal pricing I think their media streaming and cloud services might make up for the hardware. At $199.. I'd bet on it.
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a. I wouldn't use a camera on my tablet. I don't use the one on my phone either, and it's a decent one.
b. 3g I think is a useful feature. Still, I'll get along fine without it and I'm curious to see how many others will too.
c. Anything people buy when their next choice would have been an Ipad.. is a competitor. But where Amazon will really compete with Apple will be with their streaming movies/tv/music downloads and cloud based services.. Their $79 a year all you can eat price will be highly competitive with any service out there. Especially when you consider the other benefits of the Prime program. The initial talk is their cloud enhanced Silk browser is going to change the rules..
At equal pricing I don't think the Kindle Fire is competition for the Ipad on a hardware level.. but at equal pricing I think their media streaming and cloud services might make up for the hardware. At $199.. I'd bet on it.
I'm really not looking forward to a "cloud" future.
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As an iPad2 user, the biggest fault with the Kindle Fire is the same as the original iPad, no camera. The Kindle Fire also lacks 3G mobile capability, it is WiFi only.
That's the whole point of it: it's a tablet without some of the bells and whistles of the high-end models, but comes with a much lower price tag.
Besides, you can buy Fire and a camera phone for the price of an iPad2 ;)
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I'm really not looking forward to a "cloud" future.
Me either, but if anyone can pull it off with current infrastructure it will be Amazon. I've been impressed with their Kindle Reader program, at first I didn't like the idea of my ebooks being cloud based, but after a year of using it I think they've balanced things quite well.
Something else to consider. Amazon is NOT taking steps to prevent rooting. Currently B&N is selling a very similar Nook refurbished for $149. Both can be rooted, which means you can then install a generic Android OS and have access to the complete Android library. When I get some time I'm going to check into what programs are in the Android library we'd find useful for our cameras. I can see a 7" tablet slipped into my camera bag with some sort of tripod mount.. where I could pull it out, tether my DSLR, and use something like DSLR Remote or Helicon while in the field.
More, I've been talking to the guys over at Quantum about the possibility of using the mini-USB port on their Pilot to connect a tablet or laptop.. it would be great to have a 7" IPS display light controller.. better with touch screen. Other light manufacturers are embracing computer controlled light controllers so I hope Quantum will to. They've already got plenty of memories to store lighting setups and tons of function, but that tiny low cost LCD they use is a real hinderance. Wouldn't it be nice if someone would make a customized version of Android just to support photo aps?
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Besides, you can buy Fire and a camera phone for the price of an iPad2 ;)
Heck, for the price of the top Ipad you can buy a Fire, an HD web cam, and a low end DSLR kit.. I know the point of the Ipad is to have all this stuff built in but..
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Heck, for the price of the top Ipad you can buy a Fire, an HD web cam, and a low end DSLR kit.. I know the point of the Ipad is to have all this stuff built in but..
Convergence comes into stark contrast when the battery dies on your combined phone/web browser/video conferencing device/camera/mp3 player/video player/gaming device 12,000 feet above the Atlantic with six hours to go on the flight, and you're not doing any of that.
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Yeah, one can only be amazed by the monastic abnegation of those who, a few years ago, crossed the Atlantic without e-mail, chatroulette and angry brids. In other waters, we can only imagine how many followers would the @KonTiki twitter account have had...
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Convergence comes into stark contrast when the battery dies on your combined phone/web browser/video conferencing device/camera/mp3 player/video player/gaming device 12,000 feet above the Atlantic with six hours to go on the flight, and you're not doing any of that.
I've always been slightly amused that 500 of us at a time pay money to sit for 20-24 hours (average flight to SEA) in poorly padded small uncomfortable seats just inches from sweaty smelly people we don't know, with the only relief coming when it's time to cram ourselves into a phone booth sized well used toilet. Qui-Xang Caine fresh from the Shaolin temple didn't have the mental fortitude to sit in such a seat for 20+ hours with only his thoughts for entertainment. And now we're so well trained we take off our shoes, belts, wallets, and jewelry while letting some stranger put his hands in our underwear just for the pleasure. The only way to take our minds from what would be effective interrogation conditions at Guantanamo is through the use of some type of electronic gadget. One can only read the 10 page Sky News so many times. It is unthinkable such gadget should fail and render us aware of our surroundings. There is a reason they dim the lights on these flights.
I can't remember the last time I've seen an enclosed phone booth..
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Will you read books on your new Kindle or on your old one? I mean, this is a colour display, so visual fatigue and battery life must be worse than in the original Kindle.
Regards
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Guillermo: Good point! I currently read using either my iPhone, or iPad. The Kindle is wonderfull, but a single purpose device, eye fatigue for me has never been a factor and I read a *lot*. That said, I've never read paper books in direct sunlight either ;)
Like Steve, I'm curious what this will do for the platform in general, especially for non-apple types. I'd love to see some dSLR remote apps, as along with other capabilities - it's an exciting time!
I personally don't see much market overlap between the iPad or the Kindle Fire - although I do see the Fire pretty much devastating any other Android tablet out there......
3G on the iPad?.... meh, I use a wifi hotspot - why pay separate 3G fees these days?
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Will you read books on your new Kindle or on your old one? I mean, this is a colour display, so visual fatigue and battery life must be worse than in the original Kindle.
Regards
I use the Kindle Reader PC ap (free ap) on my notebook and smartphone.. sometimes when I'm feeling evil I'll read on my NEC imaging monitors.. :) So far I've never found the battery life or fatigue to be an issue on my notebook, it gets about 8-10 hours when only reading like the new Amazon Kindle is estimated to get. I rarely read for that long and I'm rarely away from a charger for that long.. The bigger difference.. is my notebook is 2.4 pounds and of course hinged. I'm hoping using a tablet to read is more comfortable to hold.
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3G on the iPad?.... meh, I use a wifi hotspot - why pay separate 3G fees these days?
My iPad2 with 3G was very useful during the power outage associated with flooding from Tropical Storm Irene last month here in upstate New York. It was the only means of communication I had, as phone lines were out also. Emergency broadcasts and news reports occurred on mobile devices through Facebook. The 10 hour battery life of the iPad combined with 3G was a life saver. The mobile plan for the iPad is monthly and can be turned on or off depending on your need. I also use the camera to visually communicate through Skype with my 82 year old Dad who lives a distance away. I have used the back camera on the iPad to record Council meetings and political speeches editing the video on the iPad with iMovie and uploading directly to YouTube.
I just don't find anything redeeming about the new Kindle device. It is trying to be an iPad, but not quite making it.
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This isn't an 'iPad killer' or any other tablet killer or even an iPad competitor. The 7" screen is pointless from the standpoint of a photographer. The RIM Playbook had the best screen on the market (yes, better than the iPad) before the Samsung 10.1 and new Lenovo (both with IPS screens) but the 7" screen made it a non-starter for photographic display purposes. And I haven't yet looked at the new Samsung or Lenovo so the Playbook may still have the best screen on the market. The lack of features compared to other tabs makes it (a) a very stripped down tablet or (b) a moderatly upgraded e-reader. Neither of which are appealing. What this is, plain and simple, is a loss leader product for Amazon to get more people into the Amazon universe. They're pricing it at $199 with the hope that people will use it enough to buy other products off of Amazon that they'll make the profit that way. And in Canada, no streaming video so even more pointless.
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This isn't an 'iPad killer' or any other tablet killer or even an iPad competitor. The 7" screen is pointless from the standpoint of a photographer. The RIM Playbook had the best screen on the market (yes, better than the iPad) before the Samsung 10.1 and new Lenovo (both with IPS screens) but the 7" screen made it a non-starter for photographic display purposes. And I haven't yet looked at the new Samsung or Lenovo so the Playbook may still have the best screen on the market. The lack of features compared to other tabs makes it (a) a very stripped down tablet or (b) a moderatly upgraded e-reader. Neither of which are appealing. What this is, plain and simple, is a loss leader product for Amazon to get more people into the Amazon universe. They're pricing it at $199 with the hope that people will use it enough to buy other products off of Amazon that they'll make the profit that way. And in Canada, no streaming video so even more pointless.
1. You may not see it this way, but if it takes sales away from the Ipad then it is by default an Ipad competitor. The Amazon Kindle Fire has already broke sales record and now sits on the top of the Amazon electronics best seller list, and it did that after one day. The numbers aren't out yet, but they're expected to be huge. To think that this didn't impact Ipad sales just isn't realistic.
2. The screen is not "pointless" for a photographer, this would depend on what the needs of the photographer may be. If someone came out with a 12 inch tablet that wouldn't make the Ipad "pointless" as a photographic display tool just because there's a larger choice. It just means there are more choices to fill a photographers different needs. Plus, while it may not be useful to 'you' as a display tool, it may be useful to you as a photographic control tool. I think this is an ideal size for a tablet that controls my wireless strobes, runs DSLR Remote, or a number of field based photographic tools
3. Appealing is in the eye of the beholder. To me a $500-$900 Ipad to display images isn't appealing. There are any number of lesser priced alternatives. I'm not denying the Ipad is a great tool, just that it's not marketed for my needs. I would never say the Ipad isn't appealing, if someone wants to give me a free one, or sell one to me for $199.. I'll place my order today.
4. You are absolutely correct. This might go down in business history as one of the smarter marketing strategies of recent times. But the reason it will be successful, and by some measures it became successful before the first unit was delivered, is because it will provide great value to the customer. Some will find value in a small fast browsing device, others as an ereader, some as a video player, others as a photographic display device, and many will find value as a portal to the retail world.. Personally I love shopping Amazon. I like the way they handle addresses as I use many, the way they handle my different credit/debit/checking/paypal accounts, their shipping rates are the best I've seen, return policies are fair and enforced, merchant requirements are strict, and best of all the delivered prices (if carefully shopped) are consistently among the lowest available.
As an example, I recently ordered (2) Seagate single drive 3tb external USB 3.0 hard drives for $119 each with free two-day shipping. (you can't buy 3tb internal drives for that price, so if you need internal you can order these and save the USB 3.0 cases for another project) Other places came within a few bucks, but the shipping, ease of ordering, and knowing their return policy will protect me.. made Amazon the best value for this purchase. I find myself using Amazon more and more as I find I can find what I want at a reasonable/best price and place my order.. often in less than 2 minutes. If I turned "one-click" on I could turn that into 30 seconds.
So.. if the Amazon Kindle Fire makes my retail experience either more enjoyable or more convenient.. then it might be worth that $199 price just for that..
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1. I don't that people will be making the full-featured tablet/Kindle Fire choice. One doesn't replace the other. The Fire is too feature-stripped to be a competitor to more full-featured tabs; including the Playbook.
2. If you've looked at images on a 7" screen you'd understand. They're simply too small for the purposes of using it as a 'portable portfolio'. 10" is sufficient so no I don't believe a 12" would be more beneficial. If I want a 'control device', I'd prefer to use a smart phone. The memory on the Fire makes it less useful as well.
3. Not saying a full-featured tab would 'just' be used as a display device. I'd question the useability of the Fire as a productivity device as well given how heavily modded the Android OS apparently is.
4. Or one of the dumbest if the sales follow through doesn't work. Given the missing features, the 'real' price for the Fire is probably about $399 when comparing to others on the market. If Amazon is subsidising $200/unit and they sell as fast as expected, Amazon has to sell a LOT of other products to make up that difference given their low margin strategy.
I'm not saying Amazon isn't a good place to buy things. I buy from them as well. But I can do that on a full-featured tab too and still have the other benefits.
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1. I don't that people will be making the full-featured tablet/Kindle Fire choice. One doesn't replace the other. The Fire is too feature-stripped to be a competitor to more full-featured tabs; including the Playbook.
2. If you've looked at images on a 7" screen you'd understand. They're simply too small for the purposes of using it as a 'portable portfolio'. 10" is sufficient so no I don't believe a 12" would be more beneficial. If I want a 'control device', I'd prefer to use a smart phone. The memory on the Fire makes it less useful as well.
3. Not saying a full-featured tab would 'just' be used as a display device. I'd question the useability of the Fire as a productivity device as well given how heavily modded the Android OS apparently is.
4. Or one of the dumbest if the sales follow through doesn't work. Given the missing features, the 'real' price for the Fire is probably about $399 when comparing to others on the market. If Amazon is subsidising $200/unit and they sell as fast as expected, Amazon has to sell a LOT of other products to make up that difference given their low margin strategy.
I'm not saying Amazon isn't a good place to buy things. I buy from them as well. But I can do that on a full-featured tab too and still have the other benefits.
1. I think this will be the case for some of the market, but I think there's also a big portion of the market who doesn't need/want the extra features. And there just might be an even larger part of the market who thinks the features are nice, but not 2-3x the price nice or who think an Ipad is great but not $500-$900 great. These people are going to be very tempted by a $199 device. This isn't like the automotive market where hundreds of choices exist so we group the most like models together and call them competition. This is more like a automotive market where 3-4 choices are available, two of which are great choices, and those two models are separated by features and price. If we only had a $80,000 Benz to choose from, if we wanted a car we buy an $80,000 Benz. Now, bring on a $15,000 Toyota Yaris. There's going to be a segment of the market who would have otherwise bought the Benz but is now buying a Yaris because it's "good enough", but there's probably an even larger segment of the market who never considered the $80,000 Benz.. because it was.. well.. $80,000.. who will now buy the $15,000 Yaris because its.. well.. $15,000. In any case, the two are competition because they're what's available if you want a car. You'll buy one or the other based on your needs, or none at all because the market still hasn't wised up enough to offer an Accord or Camry alternative.
2. I have looked at images on a 7", and 3.5", 10", 12", etc.. all the way to an LED billboard. Personally I think even 10 inches is too small to 'evaluate' an image as a photographer. But clients aren't looking at the same things I do. They're looking more at an overall view and the 7" is fine for that. In such cases bigger is always better.. but 3 inches more screen at 2-3x the price? If size was my priority I'd buy one of those $350 17" laptop deals you can always find. But it isn't, so as a photographer I'll learn to examine an image by zooming a 7 or 10 or 12" tablet as long as pixel density provides.
3. I'd agree this is a concern. Either we'll have photography aps available to us through the Amazon store.. and eventually I'd bet we will. Or, we'll root the Fire and put a full featured Android OS on it.. My guess, is aps which aren't a marketing threat to Amazon will be quickly approved for the Amazon store.. but we'll see, it's always hard to predict this.
4. Early reports show the Kindle Fire costing roughly $25 more a unit than they cost to research, manufacturer, ship, and market. $200 'might' be accurate if you're counting expected profit. But Amazon's model isn't to profit from the sales only, but rather to profit from the addition of new customers to it's content library.. so anything after $25 starts paying off. Everyone buying a years Prime membership does this just through the membership alone.. and it's a great deal, free 2-day shipping on every item you buy, full access to their content library, and consumer protections. Meanwhile, the more "embedded" a customer becomes, especially if they're having fun doing it and it's made super easy.. the more they'll be buying. And Amazon has already shown they know how to make retail easy and comfortable in a huge way.
And most don't realize.. there's an Amazon U.K., Amazon Germany, Amazon Australia, Amazon China (joyo.com?), and more.. Enjoying a bargain is a global thing..
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1. Those who aren't looking for a fuller featured version wouldn't have bought a fuller featured tab anyway so still no lost sales from Apple or anyone else. As far as people not wanting to pay the higher price for the increased feature set, well already millions of people don't seem to have a problem with it so not sure that's really a limiting factor either. I don't have one (yet) because I'm in the ABA camp and there's nothing else on the market that I've seen yet that has a good enough display.
2. I'm not talking about 'evaluating' images. For crying out loud, why does every discussion on this forum have to come back to pixel peeping and measurebating? As far as that $350 laptop you're talking about, I'd go for a Playbook with a good screen before a POS cheap laptop.
3. If Amazon is anywhere near as tight as Apple wrt what gets approved and the approval process, it may be a cold day in hell before there's a decent universe of apps available.
4. I don't know where the $25 comes from but depending on the source, of course I'd question its validity. If it comes from Bezos, I'd doubly question it. There's very, very little straight talk that comes from his gaping maw. And yes, of course I'm also talking about profit. If the $25 number is factual; however, I'd have serious questions about screen quality, general component quality and overall build quality. A Reuters story this week indicated an estimated $50 loss per unit. A DJ Newswire story estimates a $10 loss per unit and a $10 net margin after digital content bought via/for the tab are considered. By comparison, Apple has about a 30% margin on the iPad. And yes, I understand what Amazon's model is. I alluded to that earlier. Problem is they've been cutting too many margins too thin of late and profits are suffering as a result. If this has the same experience as the original Kindle in 2007, there are going to be a lot of pissed off customers because Amazon didn't source supply to meet demand.
I think a lot of people realise what Amazon's reach is. Only the truly xenophobic or obscenely jingoistic (or completely ignorant) wouldn't realise it, I'd think.
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1. Those who aren't looking for a fuller featured version wouldn't have bought a fuller featured tab anyway so still no lost sales from Apple or anyone else. As far as people not wanting to pay the higher price for the increased feature set, well already millions of people don't seem to have a problem with it so not sure that's really a limiting factor either. I don't have one (yet) because I'm in the ABA camp and there's nothing else on the market that I've seen yet that has a good enough display.
2. I'm not talking about 'evaluating' images. For crying out loud, why does every discussion on this forum have to come back to pixel peeping and measurebating? As far as that $350 laptop you're talking about, I'd go for a Playbook with a good screen before a POS cheap laptop.
3. If Amazon is anywhere near as tight as Apple wrt what gets approved and the approval process, it may be a cold day in hell before there's a decent universe of apps available.
4. I don't know where the $25 comes from but depending on the source, of course I'd question its validity. If it comes from Bezos, I'd doubly question it. There's very, very little straight talk that comes from his gaping maw. And yes, of course I'm also talking about profit. If the $25 number is factual; however, I'd have serious questions about screen quality, general component quality and overall build quality. A Reuters story this week indicated an estimated $50 loss per unit. A DJ Newswire story estimates a $10 loss per unit and a $10 net margin after digital content bought via/for the tab are considered. By comparison, Apple has about a 30% margin on the iPad. And yes, I understand what Amazon's model is. I alluded to that earlier. Problem is they've been cutting too many margins too thin of late and profits are suffering as a result. If this has the same experience as the original Kindle in 2007, there are going to be a lot of pissed off customers because Amazon didn't source supply to meet demand.
I think a lot of people realise what Amazon's reach is. Only the truly xenophobic or obscenely jingoistic (or completely ignorant) wouldn't realise it, I'd think.
Fun discussion. Thanks for keeping it fun.
1. I think your first premise is flawed. The Ipad was the only tablet available for a long time, of course people bought it if it had more features then they needed. Your second premise is equally flawed: Even if we limit this discussion to the USA, there are over 300 million potential buyers. Just because a couple million already purchased an Ipad doesn't at all mean at least that many (probably 100x that many or more) who didn't buy it because the price was too high.
2. Calm down.. ;o) I did break down the use in two ways, evaluating and viewing images. If you've got another share please.
3. This is one of the important unknowns. We DO know the Kindle will not make the entire Android ap library available because they told us. We DO NOT know what aps they will make available. I've already went an updated my order to add a few more of these wonderful $199 devices after learning they won't lock out rooting. IF I like it I'll keep one as it comes to enjoy Amazon's content library.. and I'll root the others to use for photography utilities. I might even write a few aps myself if no one else is making them. I hate programming.. but it's not rocket science.
4. The $25 came from one of the Electronic Research firms who estimate such things. I think HIS iSuppli (http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Amazon-Sells-Kindle-Fire-at-Low-Profit-Margin-to-Promote-Online-Merchandize-Sales.aspx) was the one I quoted, but there are several such estimates out there and they're all pretty close. They estimated it as $209 to build it, and then added more to include research and marketing costs. These research firms are reliable and often used in the industry.
4.5. I'm not as optimistic. Most don't realize Amazon has different stores in different countries much less their true reach.. but sure, like any company they want to do well and they have.. they've done well because they make smart business decisions. I think the Kindle Fire will be one of their best yet, but only time will tell..
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Just wait if the Kindle Fire can be rooted to use another firmware like the www.cyanogenmod.com.
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/amazon-announces-kindle-fire-tablet-forum-live-on-xda/
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1. It was the only tab available for a while but there are many others now. But I'm not of the belief that even brainwashed Jobsian cult members buy something just because it's available. There may be 300 million people in the U.S. but what's the actual market for tabs? Maybe 25 to 30 million, if that. It sold 2 million of the 1st gen model in the first few weeks so the numbers now will be much, much higher. 1 million of the 2nd gen units sold in the first weekend of availability.
2. There's a whole sub-industry building of photography and videography on mobile devices. There are an increasing number of apps available for editing video. Vimeo is even co-sponsoring a 'film-fest' of videos shot on mobile devices. This one has no camera(s). Is it a fad? Maybe. But initially a LOT of people said video in DSLRs would never take off either. Oh how wrong they were.
3. For what you've spent on the Fire now you could have bought a more fully featured tab and still had money left over.
4. Sorry, I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying there was a $25 profit margin built into each unit, not a loss. So let's take the middle point at $25 (between the $50 and $10) I mentioned before as somewhat accurate. If the other estimate of a $10 profit from content is included, that still leaves a $5 loss per unit ($10 loss on unit + $20 profit on content = $10 net profit). Not an overly smart business strategy.
4.5. I guess I have more faith in people (I can't believe I'm actually saying that :-o ).
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1. It was the only tab available for a while but there are many others now. But I'm not of the belief that even brainwashed Jobsian cult members buy something just because it's available. There may be 300 million people in the U.S. but what's the actual market for tabs? Maybe 25 to 30 million, if that. It sold 2 million of the 1st gen model in the first few weeks so the numbers now will be much, much higher. 1 million of the 2nd gen units sold in the first weekend of availability.
2. There's a whole sub-industry building of photography and videography on mobile devices. There are an increasing number of apps available for editing video. Vimeo is even co-sponsoring a 'film-fest' of videos shot on mobile devices. This one has no camera(s). Is it a fad? Maybe. But initially a LOT of people said video in DSLRs would never take off either. Oh how wrong they were.
3. For what you've spent on the Fire now you could have bought a more fully featured tab and still had money left over.
4. Sorry, I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying there was a $25 profit margin built into each unit, not a loss. So let's take the middle point at $25 (between the $50 and $10) I mentioned before as somewhat accurate. If the other estimate of a $10 profit from content is included, that still leaves a $5 loss per unit ($10 loss on unit + $20 profit on content = $10 net profit). Not an overly smart business strategy.
4.5. I guess I have more faith in people (I can't believe I'm actually saying that :-o ).
1. It is a good point that the market has already been saturated. But only to a point. There are many who haven't yet purchased and the first day figures of 95,000 pre-orders shows the market is strong for this level of device. I think (and Bezo obviously agrees) there are a large number of potential tablet buyers waiting for a lower price point. Any current business/economic theory will support this. The only question is at what price point will the most people jump in. Often companies know they can sell x number of units at a high price, so they do this their first year. They know when they do this that the market will saturate and they'll need to lower the price to sell more units at a lower profit margin.. so they do this the next year. This is a standard business model most companies use..
2. There is.. and the mobile phone market has this sewed up. There is little to be gained by having this type of camera on a tablet as Apple has found out. A tablet is just too big and inconvenient to use as a capture device. But there is a limited market for those who video chat in one form or the other, about the same percentage as there is for laptops. Very few have ever debited a laptop for not having built in cameras, unless it's a model aimed squarely as multi-media home use.. and this is usually a low end market.
3. Sure, but now I'll have 3 devices. I'm envisioning one for personal reading/viewing, and two I'll root. One hopefully will control my wireless Quantums even if I have to write it myself.. and the other as a field capture device, time lapse, focus bracketing, etc.. This last one is a bit risky, while I can write the light control software myself because it's very basic, I'm not capable to do the other. So I'm guessing others will. Or will soon. If not, I'll find a use for a capable $199 tablet.. easy to do. For me a 10 inch Ipad is bigger than I want for stuffing in my bags, but not big enough to do real work on.. I'm not a fan of a 10 inch in any format.
4. If the business strategy was to make a profit ONLY on hardware sales then I'd agree. But it's not. It actually becomes an extremely cost effective advertising tool. Think about it, how much money do you think you could make if you could somehow get people to carry around a mini-billboard that you could program to feature anything you wanted, as often as you wanted? Would you pay people $25 to carry this around? Amazon will, and it's absolutely brilliant.
4.5. Faith in people is a good thing. But when it comes to awareness outside their own country, especially with American's, I just can't bring myself to be optimistic. Heck, Amazon isn't just making money on operating systems like Windows, or hardware like Ipads, or service plans like AT&T.. they've positioned themselves to get a piece of all that, plus most everything sold retail, all sorts of intellectual property, new cloud technology, you name it.. they're getting a piece of it. And they're doing it globally. And because they're not controlling a specific industry there can't be a monopoly or anti-trust issue. They're just getting their small slice of everything. The mafia business model.. :) From a business standpoint this is a tremendous achievement. To pull off what the mafia has been trying to do since time began, but to do it legally.. and with voluntary, happy, and satisfied customers. The true scope of which, is only limited by Bezo's obviously huge imagination.. Impressive. And on top of this, everything they're doing provides a better value to masses.. a sort of retail social equalizer. There are no losers. Well, except maybe a few states who think they should get their share through taxes, but they've been handling this issue well.
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Amazon building "millions more" Kindle Fires in response to demand.. (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Amazon-Kindle-Fire-Jeff-Bezos-Honeycomb-Q4-2011,news-12999.html)
Nice...
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If your looking for something a bit more "Tough" there always this. Will be out begining of next year. http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/toughbook-tablet-overview.asp Will come in a 10 and a 7 inch model.
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Anyone get theirs yet? I posted a 'running review' (http://www.bangkokimages.com/Articles/Equipment/entryid/1098/Amazon-Kindle-Fire-Running-Review.aspx) which I'll update every few days for the next week or so as I set up the new Kindle Fire, research and choose aps, and generally get a feel for the thing.
There's a rumor out there that when the numbers are in.. the Kindle Fire will double the numbers of the Ipad launch. Not bad.
In a nutshell, this is not an Ipad. But if you can do without 3g/4g, on-board cameras, the Apple Store and you can live with a 7 inch display.. then you'll find this a great value. Amazon Prime, $79 a year for free two-day shipping and $4 next day shipping is a deal just for that.. but when you add their content library, once a month borrow an ebook program, and free cloud storage.. then the value is multiplied several times. There's no doubt it's a 'consumption' device as set up from Amazon.
The Kindle Fire has already been rooted. There are a ton of aps already approved on the Amazon store.. and it's not that difficult to install the Marketplace to access the rest of the Android aps. Personally I won't mess with this one, the content library is so good I'll find it useful just for that, checking email, weather, and other simple things. When I get time I'll order another, root it, and see if I can flip it to a decent 'production' device for photography use. Since it can be easily rooted there's no reason it can't be set up in a few hours to be a cheap and capable full Android tablet with access to all Android aps.
Still, I've become pretty 'involved' with my 12.1" Lenovo x201s. A 2.4 pound i7/8gb RAM/ 256gb SSD/matte screen/kevlar coated laptop (http://www.bangkokimages.com/Articles/Equipment/entryid/606/Lenovo-x201s-Thinkpad-Review.aspx) that runs a good 5-6 hours on the standard battery. It's last years model, but for what I use it for.. it's great. And after using it for a year as my "mobile device" I'm finding it really hard to give it up for a 7" tablet. Heck, any tablet is such a big step down in functionality, a much bigger step in proportion to what you gain in size/weight of the tablet.. that I'm finding I suffer withdrawal symptoms when I try to get by with just the tablet. Everything the tablet does, the x201s does better, faster, with a bigger screen, and much greater ease of use. Weight wise we're talking a pound vs. 2.4 pounds and right about double the size. But it's small enough, where if I have to carry either one, I can't say that for most of my uses.. it's more of a chore to carry the x201s than the tablet.
But.. I can see the Kindle Fire finding a permanent home in my vehicle just sitting there for the times I forget or didn't think to take the x201s laptop, there's no doubt my wife will want one, and if I can root the Kindle Fire and turn it into a photography tool.. it will fit in any of my bags with ease and become invaluable.
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Engadget has done a comparison between the Kindle Fire and the Nook Colour.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/18/kindle-fire-vs-nook-tablet-fight/#disqus_thread
What I really, really want, however, is this:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=3135&c=samsung_gt-p6810_galaxy_tab_7.7_wifi_
For photographers, it would seem that the display is everything.
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Besides, you can buy Fire and a camera phone for the price of an iPad2 ;)
Though for my aging eyes, reading a website or PDF document would require two Fire's butted side-by-side ... and then the cost advantage is lost!
Seriously, the iPad screen size is the bare minimum that works for many of my reading and on-screen typing tasks. I see these as two potentially wonderful and succesful devices, but with not as much overlap in "use case" or likely customers as some people say.
By the way, video chat with FaceTime or Skype can be fun, but that is the only use I have for cameras in a device this big, and so a very minor selling point for me. As you suggest:
"Taking crappy photos? That's what phones are for!"
Sent from my iPad.
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At the end I ordered a refurbished Nook Color for $160 because of the microSD slot. The device should arrive this week and rooting to the CyanogenMod 7 to get a tablet with a plain Android OS is on top of my To-do list. I will use the device as a quite pocketable ereader and as a portfolio-on-the-go.
I played around with the iPad 2 and iOS 5.01 for two days. It's a closed system with the iTunes software and the Apple Shop. I prefer an open system without restrictions. Instead of the iPad I would get the Asus Transformer Prime.