Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: Jack Flesher on June 16, 2005, 01:18:17 am
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A few basics:
On a PC, you can only use one profile at a time, so you should profile your main imaging monitor.
A good monitor profile is onlay a starting point to getting prints that look like your onscreen image. Knowing how to print with paper profiles and NO other color management is another.
The scope of how to print is beyond a simple response on a forum. If you want to learn how to print properly, you really should consider a good imaging workshop that covers printing. (Like mine on the website link below )
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You are right about the notice for Monaco! I think I'm just lucky to have both monitors very close to each other in terms of color response. But the card is showing correct profile for each monitor, like I described in post above. I wonder if Photoshop is capable of distinguishing which monitor it is using, like Monaco app? If that is the case, the on-the-fly conversion to correct display profile takes care of correct colors. What happens when you move PS window in between the two displays might be more difficult to explain...
Maybe in my next life I'll get a system with two graphics cards....
As to selecting which monitor to profile, it's up to you. That's the final goal of the whole process - make different hardware display the same colors in the same way.
Allan
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Got home and tried DisplayProfile. It shows me correct profile for each monitor. When I move the app window from one screen to another it updates itself with profile assigned to each monitor. Does it mean that what I believed before is still true - each monitor, even on Windows machine, with a good graphics card is using its own correct profile? Or is it Monaco Loader's doing its stuff after Windows tried to screw things up?
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(in the Windows Display Properties dialog box, in the Setting tab, click on the monitor i want to change profile, then click on Advanced button then click on Monitor Calibration tab, i can choose the profile i want for that monitor.)
And after you do that for monitor 2, what profile now shows as loaded for monitor 1 when you go into properties for 1?
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correct
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Hi Jack,
which Nvidia card do you have ? Is it a Quadro FX card? it sounds very interesting.
thanks for sharing
Henrik
Quadro FX 3400
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i have a question. i have two monitors hooked up to my computer. i have just finished calibrating both of them. is monitor calibration supposed to give the same image on both monitors or does it make sense that the image is not quite similar? and if it does make sense that monitor calibration doesn't yield the exact same picture on different monitors, how does monitor calibration ultimately affect the printout?
thanx for the replies....
amnon
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On a PC, you can only use one profile at a time, so you should profile your main imaging monitor.
That is generally true, but if each monitor is driven by a separate video card, then it is possible to individually profile each monitor. You can do this with the Eye-One software by simply dragging the application to the monitor you want profiled and then beginning the profiling process. The one profile limitation is due to most dual-output video cards using a single LUT for both outputs. Installing one video card per monitor bypasses this limitation.
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re.. two monitors w/one dual head card
Yes, you can calibrate each monitor separately and create a unique ICC file for each monitor. And yes, via Desktop properties you can assign the ICC profiles to their respective monitor. HOWever, Windows XP will only load one profile each time you reboot. One monitor will have the correct profile, one will not. BUT you can load the correct profile manually after you boot using a free utility from gretagmacbeth called: “Displayprofile.exe”
Download it free here (bottom of page): Displayprofile (http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/products/products_color-mgmt-spec/products_professional-cm/products_pm5-photostudio/products_pm5-photostudio_sw.htm)
Simply run 'Displayprofile', drag it into a monitor screen and select the profile you want to load.. very cool. This also allows you to quickly switch between multiple calibration files for any monitor without rebooting (say 5000° and 6500°).
Gretagmacbeth says: DisplayProfile allows you to store multiple monitor profiles for your PC and have a way to easily switch between them. (202 KB)
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HOWever, Windows XP will only load one profile each time you reboot.
Thank you.
And FTR I said a few BASICS in my original response. ::
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i use i1 display 2.
i noticed that in my Start Up folder, there's an application called Logo Calibration Loader. is it suppose to be the application that loads profile for each video card (monitor)? if yes, then the DisplayProfile is redundant, isn't it?
by the way, i'm not sure about the "Windows only loads 1 profile for both monitors/cards" because in my computer, i can make it load 2 separated profiles for 2 separated monitors/cards. my comp is IBM intelli workstation z serries.
(in the Windows Display Properties dialog box, in the Setting tab, click on the monitor i want to change profile, then click on Advanced button then click on Monitor Calibration tab, i can choose the profile i want for that monitor.)
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The Logo Calibration Loader will automatically load multiple profiles correctly even if Windows doesn't, to the extent your video card configuration allows multiple profiles.
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Hi Jack,
which Nvidia card do you have ? Is it a Quadro FX card? it sounds very interesting.
thanks for sharing
Henrik
Quadro FX 3400
Nice,...I guess why skimp on the graphic card when one consider the $ spend on everything else.
back to the drawing board.
thanks for replying
Henrik
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I suggest the search function. There was a rather lengthy thread a week or so ago on this very topic.
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Hello,
Can't exactly agree with Jack on question of only one profile for two monitors on a PC. I have 2 monitors powered by ATI Radeon 9800PRO card and it uses different profiles for each monitor. The calibration program (Monaco EZ 2.6 with OptixPro) specifically asks you to place its window during calibration on the screen you are currently trying to profile. The generated ICC file is attached automatically to the correct monitor, which you can see by going to screen properties -> settings tab (click on the screen you want to check) -> advanced button -> Color management tab. You'll see your color profile in the list. You should name the profiles differently for the two monitors (like LeftMon and RightMon).
My configuration doesn't show any difference in display colors on the two monitors, BUT only in color managed applications.
The normal display (like Windows desktop or some viewer apps) is different.
Hope this helps.
Allan
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paul...
thanks for the displayprofile..really very cool!
amnon
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allan67,
If the "Monaco Loader" is resident in memory after you boot, it may be doing the same thing Displayprofile does and load the correct profile for each monitor after the boot is complete. I have no idea. I only know that Windows XP will not load two profiles for one card. I’m using a dual head Matrox Parhelia. I don’t load it’s fancy driver add on (PowerDesk). Too many bells and whistles that only confuse me. Simple is good.
I have two “identical” CRT monitors but I can easily tell if the wrong profile is loaded. Clearly each needs its own ICC profile. And even with the correct profile loaded there are subtle differences in color rendering. That’s life. I’ve learned that the universe is exactly as it should be, regardless of what I think.
p
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Okay, I was confused. I thought you were implying earlier that you had two moniutors on the same card and could load separate profiles. I think the reason you get the separate profile for 2 and 3 is that they are on separate cards. 3 and 1 are on the same dual-head card and hence get the same profile.
More to the point, when you re-boot, do the separate profiles for the separate cards hold?
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More to the point, when you re-boot, do the separate profiles for the separate cards hold?
as i mentioned earlier, there's an application called Logo Calibration Loader that runs when the system starts up. i tried to remove it then restart, and the profiles wouldn't load. when i ran the application, the profiles loaded into their places.
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"to the extent your video card configuration allows multiple profiles. " This is the critical phrase in all of this. I just discovered that Nvidia suggests that the dual headed card I have will handle two profiles. It actually handles 2 luts and the additional software they load will accept twp profiles but will only use one because they are stored in the same place in the registry. They are saved one over the other. The little profile loader can be very decieving too. It is supposed to load luts and profiles but again on this card it loads the individual luts, appears to load the profiles but Windows says otherwise.
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Nice,...I guess why skimp on the graphic card when one consider the $ spend on everything else.
back to the drawing board.
But you don't have to spend big bucks on a graphics card to get excellent image quality.
If you don't care about the performance of 3D games, and the speed of such, a Matrox Millennium G550 might very well satisfy your needs (although it "only" has a 32-bit color depth).
If your display supports 10-bit gamma, the Millennium P650 or P750 might be the right choice.
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thank you for the tip jack. actually i had already read those threads. at the risk of incensing some (and maybe amusing others) i am going to ask what is probably a stupid question. i just hope nobody votes me off the island.
what i don't understand is this: what is the purpose of monitor calibration? i have just spent a couple of hours calibrating my two monitors (i have 2 samsung monitors, not the same model but almost similar). i was under the impression monitor calibration would answer all my problems. i thought what i saw on one monitor i would see on the other, and ultimately on my printouts. now i understand that monitor calibration has nothing to do with printer calibration, so when my printouts didn't perfectly match my monitor i wasn't surprised. but even my monitors don't match, so again, what is the purpose of monitor calibration? am i doing something wrong? is the same picture on both monitors supposed to be identical?
again i apologize for the sub-pro level of this question. if anyone feels the need to kick a rookie while he's down go right ahead but please give me some insight while you are kicking.
thanx...
amnon
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allan,
i have almost the same configuration as you do: 2 monitors with ati 9600. the calibration program is monaco optix xr. i just read the back of the box and it says "single video cards with dual monitor support are not supported on the windows platform". had i seen that before i bought it i would not have....it always pays to read the fine print beofr eit's too late!!! do you know if the optix pro supports dual monitors on a single video card in windows? also, as now i have my answer as to why the monitor calibration was off (the answer was right there on the back of the box..sorry!!!), if i have to choose one screen to calibrate, does it make a difference which one i choose?
thanx again...
amnon
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Thanks for the tip on DisplayProfile I'll try it today and see if it improves things for me.
When Monaco EZ finished profiling it installed its own LUT loader, which runs after windows is fully booted. So it supposed to load correct LUT. I wonder if it does it for both displays and if not, then which one is loaded ? The ATI site says 9800Pro has "Dual integrated 10-bit per channel 400 MHz DACs" and "Dual integrated display controllers". Do they have separate memory for LUTs? Maybe Volari Dual will be a solution...
Allan
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i have no idea. i know that windows was only loading the profile for the first monitor, but like you, the displayprofile was showing me that both profiles were loaded on the respective screens. now i have both screens apparently calibrated, but even to my untrained eye, there is no way the image is the same on both screens. i am guessing it is because the screens are not at exactly the same distance from my eye (although the difference is negligable i think).
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(in the Windows Display Properties dialog box, in the Setting tab, click on the monitor i want to change profile, then click on Advanced button then click on Monitor Calibration tab, i can choose the profile i want for that monitor.)
And after you do that for monitor 2, what profile now shows as loaded for monitor 1 when you go into properties for 1?
after i load profile for monitor 2, then go back to properties for monitor 1, the profile for monitor 1 is still its profile.
here's the screen shots
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/teddyloves/left.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/teddyloves/middle.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/teddyloves/right.jpg)
i have 3 monitors. the one on the left (number 2) uses an ATI card, the other two (number 3 and 1) share a nVidia and number 3 is main monitor.
as you can see, number 2 has its own profile, while number 3 and number 1 share the same profile
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"to the extent your video card configuration allows multiple profiles. " This is the critical phrase in all of this. I just discovered that Nvidia suggests that the dual headed card I have will handle two profiles. It actually handles 2 luts and the additional software they load will accept twp profiles but will only use one because they are stored in the same place in the registry. They are saved one over the other. The little profile loader can be very decieving too. It is supposed to load luts and profiles but again on this card it loads the individual luts, appears to load the profiles but Windows says otherwise.
Hi Jack,
which Nvidia card do you have ? Is it a Quadro FX card? it sounds very interesting.
thanks for sharing
Henrik
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Okay... I have simply been trying to understand this comment of yours:
by the way, i'm not sure about the "Windows only loads 1 profile for both monitors/cards" because in my computer, i can make it load 2 separated profiles for 2 separated monitors/cards. my comp is IBM intelli workstation z serries.
So to be clear, WINDOWS will only load ONE profile on boot, but you can use Logo-Loader to load individual profiles.
Correct?
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Hi Jack,
which Nvidia card do you have ? Is it a Quadro FX card? it sounds very interesting.
thanks for sharing
Henrik
Quadro FX 3400
Nice,...I guess why skimp on the graphic card when one consider the $ spend on everything else.
back to the drawing board.
thanks for replying
Henrik
I just realized I responded to your query, but was the wrong "Jack" -- You may want to send a PM to Jack Bingham.
I should also add this was not my first-choice card, but happened to be included with the Dell refurb I bought.