Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: JV on August 07, 2011, 12:07:43 pm
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Does anybody know whether there is any difference between the Leaf AFi cameras and the latest Hy6 cameras from DHW?
Can the Leaf AFi cameras be upgraded to the latest firmware?
Thanks, Joris.
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Hello,
I am unaware of any differences in these cameras, if there are any, but in any case, the AFi I own has the latest firmware... it was supplied to me by Sinar in the course of warranty service on the camera. Sinar gives great service to AFi owners!
Neil
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Joris,
As far as I know there are few cosmetic differences between the Hy6 and the AFI. Mainly regarding some connection on the body. May be somebody knows the small differences here and there. However, once the back is fitted on the body, all goes the same: perfect. From my side the firmware on my AFi is the latest one.
Cheers JL
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Difference is mainly the name (and possibly the battery holder in the grip, Leaf-bodies take the same batteries as the backs), actual firmware (in case you still have 2.xx) can be upgraded by DHW in Braunschweig.
Andreas
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DHW can supply the Hy6 with a battery compartment suited for the Aptus (Samsung) batteries or the Sinar (Varta) batteries
The latest firmware which came out from Leaf/ Sinar (written by jenoptik) in mid-2009 is 3.10 and this is what Sinar put on when they service the cameras
There are some DHW Hy6 bodies out there with 3.10a3 firmware which is the Alpha version not the released one.
Contact your Leaf or Sinar dealer to find out if your body can be upgraded with the 3.10 firmware as some of the older bodies will also need a hardware mod to support it
Yair
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Yair
Slightly off topic questions:
Can you elaborate on differences between the Leaf Aptus-II 10R 56 MP and the Leaf Aptus-II 12R 80 MP other than the sensor size.
Do they both have tilting LCD screens for the Hy6/AFI mount?
Are the LCD screen resolutions same or different between 10R and the 12R?
thanks
prakash
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Hi Prakash,
AFi-II 12 and AFi-II 10 backs have got tilt screen and rotating sensors
Aptus-II 12R (V series) and 10R "only" have the rotating sensor
All LCDs are the same
80MP and 56MP have different pixel size an sensor shape. Being 2 yrs newer, the 80MP uses an updated sensor design
Hope this helps
Yair
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FWIW, the older AFI II 7 has the rotating sensor and tilting screen as well.
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AFi-II 12 and AFi-II 10 backs have got tilt screen and rotating sensors
80MP and 56MP have different pixel size an sensor shape. Being 2 yrs newer, the 80MP uses an updated sensor design
I am an architectural shooter and use a Sinar e75 back on a technical camera. When I purchased the back it was supplied with a "birth certificate" measuring the 4 corners and the center of the sensor and the maximum variation was 6-7 one thousands of a millimeter. Using Rodenstock HR lenses I frequently have to shoot wide open @ f4.5 getting excellent results with regard to edge to edge sharpness.
Now.....reading this forum, one would have the impression that focus is a big problem that can not be accurately resolved without the use of
various solutions offered by different manufacturer's of technical cameras and/or digital backs: laser or sonar measuring devices, HPF focus rings, adapter plates with adjustable shims, esoteric helical focusing mounts, live view, and focus indicators on the lcd using contrast......
Does Leaf provide this type of a factory "birth certificate" measuring the variations of the perpendicularity of the sensor and how the heck do you maintain this on a sensor that rotates internally? Will I have to stop down the Rodie HR's to get a sharp photograph?
Can you also explain the "updated sensor design" of the 80MP back versus the 56MP?
thanks Yair
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I am an architectural shooter and use a Sinar e75 back on a technical camera. When I purchased the back it was supplied with a "birth certificate" measuring the 4 corners and the center of the sensor and the maximum variation was 6-7 one thousands of a millimeter. Using Rodenstock HR lenses I frequently have to shoot wide open @ f4.5 getting excellent results with regard to edge to edge sharpness.
This is odd since the back uses an adapter which you can change yourself and I doubt that you were provided with a guide for how much torque to apply to each screw and this will surely affect the alignment of the back for such critical applications
Now.....reading this forum, one would have the impression that focus is a big problem that can not be accurately resolved without the use of
various solutions offered by different manufacturer's of technical cameras and/or digital backs: laser or sonar measuring devices, HPF focus rings, adapter plates with adjustable shims, esoteric helical focusing mounts, live view, and focus indicators on the lcd using contrast......
Does Leaf provide this type of a factory "birth certificate" measuring the variations of the perpendicularity of the sensor and how the heck do you maintain this on a sensor that rotates internally? Will I have to stop down the Rodie HR's to get a sharp photograph?
We do not supply a certificate as it may have little bearing on how the back is mounted and used in the field. The backs are designed and made to stringent tolerances that are provided by the body manufacturers and alignment/ calibration is done at the pixel level under a microscope.
The rotating mechanism is designed with all that in mind. You have to hold one and play with it to realise how solid and robust it really is
The reality tells us that in general this all works fine and if there's a specific focusing issue it can be dealt with via our service channel. I believe this is true for al the back manufacturers
Can you also explain the "updated sensor design" of the 80MP back versus the 56MP?
New pixels (5.2µ as opposed to 6µ) mean update to the supporting electronics, RGB filters, readouts etc. We also always try to improve things like DR, signal-to-noise ratio and colour sensitivity
Hope this helps
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Can you also explain the "updated sensor design" of the 80MP back versus the 56MP?
Hi, I am an advanced amateur into primarily landscape photography and recent upgraded my 28MP Aptus 65 to 80MP Afi-II 12. I also looked at the character of Aptus-10 files since I was considering upgrading to that one. Among reasons why I went with the Afi-II 12 was that it is per my impression that it is a clear significant improvement in image quality compared to Aptus-II 10 files that seemed as incremental improvements in comparison. Pixels are more and which is useful, but what really impress me is that there is a much finer gradation of colors, there is more correct colors and more colors and a wider DR, all of which also assist in processing files with a pleasing look and better to highlight detail and better shadow detail. The highlight and shadow response seem better. For years I have shot Velvia 50 alongside with digital, but the Afi 12 made me sold my 5 boxes of remaining Quickloads. Not that it is same, but has made me happy in image quality :).
As for the rotating sensor, I use DHW Rolleiflex Hy6 with the 80mm Xenotar AFD 2.8 which is very sharp. Rotating sensor so far works excellent. I was asking Yair along similar lines when I purchased the back since I plan to later add an Alpa. It seems others are using rotating sensor on tech camera also. I anticipate my back should work fine with rotating sensor on an Alpa, but if there is any issue I would shim it for one position, likely horizontal. No worries, still happy!!!
Regards
Anders
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Dear Prakash,
This is effectively strange. I am not aware that Sinar did this kind of measurement with a "birth certificate", they didn't. Unless it was made by the one who sold the back to you. Are you sure that was from Sinar?
Best regards
Thierry
"When I purchased the back it was supplied with a "birth certificate" measuring the 4 corners and the center of the sensor and the maximum variation was 6-7 one thousands of a millimeter."
This is odd since the back uses an adapter which you can change yourself and I doubt that you were provided with a guide for how much torque to apply to each screw and this will surely affect the alignment of the back for such critical applications
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Dear Prakash,
This is effectively strange. I am not aware that Sinar did this kind of measurement with a "birth certificate", they didn't. Unless it was made by the one who sold the back to you. Are you sure that was from Sinar?
Best regards
Thierry
Perhaps it was supplied by Jenoptik? I remember getting one too.
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This is odd since the back uses an adapter which you can change yourself and I doubt that you were provided with a guide for how much torque to apply to each screw and this will surely affect the alignment of the back for such critical applications
LOL.......I like your sense of humor........... and now that I think about it I am surprised the allen screw driver did not come with an adjustable torque! You make a good point in that there are no applications that are so " critical" and I would agree that there is only a certain level of precision that is required to make sharp photographs. I have owned an Aptus 75previously and indeed it is a robust product for professional use.
New pixels (5.2µ as opposed to 6µ) mean update to the supporting electronics, RGB filters, readouts etc. We also always try to improve things like DR, signal-to-noise ratio and colour sensitivity
Yair
I have seen the specs on the Leaf website and they are the same with regard to dynamic range between the 56MP and the 80MP.
Would you happen to have sample files that may illustrate these improvements or is it a subjective issue similar to what Anders HK is referring to? I realize that specs do not address critical things like how the back renders information.......Is it possible to see these improvements in DR,signal-to-noise ratio and color sensitivity between the 56MP and the 80MP? Is there a difference in battery power management ?
@THierry
I have these measurement from Sinar......perhaps it is an internal document that was sent in error when I upgraded to the live view version of the e75
@Anders HK
your observations are interesting
prakash
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"Does anybody know whether there is any difference between the Leaf AFi cameras and the latest Hy6 cameras from DHW?"
I have recently purchased both a camera from DHW and one through Leaf. The one from DHW has Hy6 and Rolleiflex printed on it and has firmware 3.10a3 and the Leaf has AFi and Leaf printed on it plus has firmware 3.10 on it. Other than the printed words, there appears to be no difference between the bodies in terms of function and available options.
and Yair - I like how you write, "We also always try to improve things like DR, signal-to-noise ratio and colour sensitivity".
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Quite interesting that the Leaf body had the more recent firmware...
Was there any difference in price between the two?
Given that the Leaf body comes without warranty it should be slightly cheaper, shouldn't it?
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Was there any difference in price between the two?
Not really sure about normal pricing or even if one can buy bodies direct from Leaf or its dealer's or distributors, as my purchase from leaf came about through a complicated series of events. I do hope that Leaf will continue to support the AFi platform for a long while and offer the bodies, etc as well as backs.
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Quite interesting that the Leaf body had the more recent firmware...
Is 3.10 later than 3.10a3?
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Is 3.10 later than 3.10a3?
3.10 is the formal release version, while 3.10a3 is the alpha 3 candidate one.
Here Rollei dealers tell their buyers that 3.10a3 is the latest version. Probably they think 3.10a10 is even newer. ;D
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I asked DHW about the difference in June when I got the camera from Leaf and this is the reply:
Dear Eric,
We never use the firmware version 3.10 only 3.10a3. Maybe Leaf has changed the firmware because
of their digital backs.
Best regards
The funny thing is that at the same time the Leaf and Phase people I was in contact with thought it might be older that what the factory used. Only after I got in contact with a great technical person at Phase was I told that the DHW was older (a=alpha). Anyhow - I've worked with both cameras and see no difference other than the names printed on the outside. The AFi-ii 12 back works seemingly identical on both - so if there are any differences at all, its not apparent.
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I would rather replace the logo Leaf with Rolleiflex. Few guys know there is a camera named Leaf. ;D
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I also bought a Hy6 a few weeks ago from DHW. They offer the Hy6 with either Sinar or Leaf battery compartments. I chose Leaf so I would have batteries matching my back. I also like the 'Rolleiflex' logo, which is how they should all have been branded from the start.
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Mine says Sinar, but I would be happier with Rolleiflex.
Does anybody have any idea how much a Rolleiflex Chimney-hood costs?
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Not really sure about normal pricing or even if one can buy bodies direct from Leaf or its dealer's or distributors, as my purchase from leaf came about through a complicated series of events. I do hope that Leaf will continue to support the AFi platform for a long while and offer the bodies, etc as well as backs.
With the recent change in the USA concerning distribution of Leaf products, Mamiya America Corporation (MAC Group) is now once again the sole distributor for all Leaf products in the USA (a good thing). We can now order AFi camera bodies and lenses from Leaf via MAC. Pricing is good. I have several units on the way and before ordering, I confirmed the serial numbers started with 3xxx and the firmware version was 3.10.
Steve Hendrix
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Does anybody have any idea how much a Rolleiflex Chimney-hood costs?
Contact DHW directly. I have a price list but unfortunately the chimney finder wasn't itemised separately. Call +49 531 6800 293.
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Mine says Sinar, but I would be happier with Rolleiflex.
Does anybody have any idea how much a Rolleiflex Chimney-hood costs?
The chimney style or 3x 6x6 lupe finder base is kind of expensive if you ask me. I just bought this from DHW for 387 euro!!! ( Maybe Steve can do better through MAC? ;) ) And then you need to buy the 6x6 lupe if you didn't already have it. But it is the best view and most accurate finder available. Magnification is higher than with the 45 degree prism and also brighter. It's a funny little part because you'd think its just a frame but its got some pointy shape in the front. Part number is #58048
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Steve,
Can one order lenses and accessories too through you via MAC?
Thanks,
Eric
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Steve,
Can one order lenses and accessories too through you via MAC?
Thanks,
Eric
Yes, though there are limits, particularly with the accessories. I'm still feeling this out in terms of the extent of the products and inventory availability and hope to have a more complete picture soon. As you and I have discussed, it's a positive, being able to get competitive pricing, compared to the situation previously.
Steve Hendrix
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That's great news - a real distributor and dealer too. With credibility. Wunderbar.
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If the demand keeps up, perhaps eventually the 35mm S-Flektogon sees the light of day! :)
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Put me in for the 35mm!
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The chimney style or 3x 6x6 lupe finder base is kind of expensive if you ask me. I just bought this from DHW for 387 euro!!! ( Maybe Steve can do better through MAC? ;) ) And then you need to buy the 6x6 lupe if you didn't already have it. But it is the best view and most accurate finder available. Magnification is higher than with the 45 degree prism and also brighter. It's a funny little part because you'd think its just a frame but its got some pointy shape in the front. Part number is #58048
Does it work on Hy6?
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Does it work on Hy6?
Yes - that's correct. DHW made this part 58048 available earlier this year to use the 6x6 lupe style finder on the Hy6/AFi.
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Yes - that's correct. DHW made this part 58048 available earlier this year to use the 6x6 lupe style finder on the Hy6/AFi.
DHW must be able to modifiy the old frame base into the Hy6 type.
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That was what I had thought but the bottom of the new one is very different - only the top part where the lupe attaches looks the same. Actually as a side comment - the whole way the finders attach on the Hy6 is improved over the 6000 series cameras.