Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: Jeremy Roussak on July 04, 2011, 06:11:46 pm
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Comments?
Jeremy
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I mentinoned this before, but HDR applied across the board and indiscriminately defies the very essence of photography, which is elimination of the superfluous (i.e., painter adds, photographer subtracts). In this particular image, by bringing out every shadow and every detail, everything becomes a point of interest, thus nothing is the point of interest.
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I mentinoned this before, but HDR applied across the board and indiscriminately defies the very essence of photography, which is elimination of the superfluous (i.e., painter adds, photographer subtracts). In this particular image, by bringing out every shadow and every detail, everything becomes a point of interest, thus nothing is the point of interest.
Slobodan,
Every now and then someone says something important in a simple manner that is easy for me to understand - this is one such comment. This particular photograph vividly illustrates your point, and I for one, will keep this simple idea in mind from here on.
Thank you!
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Slobodan,
Every now and then someone says something important in a simple manner that is easy for me to understand - this is one such comment. This particular photograph vividly illustrates your point, and I for one, will keep this simple idea in mind from here on.
Thank you!
+1
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Pleased as I am that the photo might serve as an educational aid, I would like to point out that I very seldom use HDR. This shot is a straight three-shot panorama, stitched in AutoPano Pro and then converted to B&W in Lightroom.
Jeremy
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Could you show us a colour version please? Normally this type of image has strong deep shadows and contrast. Yours is a different rendering and I am not sure if it is better than the "normal". I think a good reason is needed to try and show something that is different. If however you can pull it off then you are onto a "winner" 8)
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Could you show us a colour version please? Normally this type of image has strong deep shadows and contrast. Yours is a different rendering and I am not sure if it is better than the "normal". I think a good reason is needed to try and show something that is different. If however you can pull it off then you are onto a "winner" 8)
I'll post it when I get home this evening. It was an overcast, rather dull day so the colour version wasn't, to my eye, terribly interesting.
Jeremy
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I'll post it when I get home this evening. It was an overcast, rather dull day so the colour version wasn't, to my eye, terribly interesting.
Jeremy
Jeremy,
I like your photo very much. I also know that it's not really easy to produce something spectacular in this place. I've been there many times and your rendition is the best I've seen so far. I doubt that the color version could improve over the B/W.
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I just think you should have got much closer to the edge, for a better perspective ;)
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With or without a parachute? ;)
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Comments?
Jeremy
Been there or at least somewhere similar, done that, applied to much manipulation, didn't win anything in the club competition, etc, but I think you all probably know the rest by now.
My version is of a place called Horseshoe Bend, located at the bottom end of the Grand Canyon. I do intend to go back though and have another go at it, as for my version of this type of image, I was stood right on the very edge when I took this image (wife holding onto my belt screaming loudly as I leaned forward to try and get it all in – the vista of course) and what a rush that was, because if memory serves me correctly, I think it is something like a sheer 2,000 foot drop at that point and my toes were right up to the edge – you can get a sense of size if you look really carefully to the left of the river bend about 8 O'clock, you can see what is quite a large boat that due to the scale, looks like a tiny little spec.
Also I would recommend if you do go to Horseshoe bend to have a go at taking this type of image and after your knees have stopped trembling, you then make a detour and take in the slot canyons just down the road, expensive, but well worth it.
Photobloke
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Jeremy,
My first reaction was surprise to see this in BW rather than in color. I assumed it was the same Horseshoe Bend that Photobloke did, but taken from farther to the right.
I like the fact of seeing it in black and white, since I have seen many versions in color, so BW is a refreshing change. But it does look a bit flat, and I would be tempted to increase the local contrast some to give it a bit more punch.
What I very much like in your shot is the shape of the curve of the canyon, which is much more interesting than the straight-on one in Photobloke's. The little dark pointy hills (or whatever they are) on the horizon somewhat left of center provide a nice secondary point of interest and help to balance the image.
I'd like to see the color version as well as a reworking of this one.
Eric
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J
eremy,
Was that a single exposure ?
thanks
Frank
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…My first reaction was surprise to see this in BW rather than in color. I assumed it was the same Horseshoe Bend that Photobloke did, but taken from farther to the right.…
This isn't Horseshoe Bend.. It's Goosenecks SP, between Monument Valley and Mexican Hat-
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... I would like to point out that I very seldom use HDR. This shot is a straight three-shot panorama, stitched in AutoPano Pro and then converted to B&W in Lightroom...
Like in any good crime drama, the first suspect is rarely the last. So, my apologies to you as the wrongly accused ;)
But the "crime" is still the same, except the culprit turned out to be... Mother Nature with its dull lighting (which "brought out every shadow and every detail"). In your own words, reality (i.e., color version) was rather dull and uninteresting. I have yet to see a stunningly different result when a dull color version is converted to b&w (without further manipulation, that is). Typically, a dull color results in a dull b&w. That is why we resort to optical help (i.e., filters), or, these days, software. Overcast sky is great for shooting smaller scenes and details, but grand vistas almost inevitably require some kind of manipulation for b&w... filters, channel mixing, and yes, good old dodging and burning.
I must admit here that my personal preference is strong manipulation in post processing, so that may not be everyone's cup of tea. To give you an idea what I prefer for the same/similar scene, check out this Peter Eastway's photo (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.petereastway.com/images/HorseShoeBend07c2131.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.petereastway.com/showpics.taf%3FPortNo%3D19%26PicNo%3D10&usg=__Dw5YVCxONN5X2G1wQik2pEEFoGE=&h=386&w=900&sz=159&hl=en&start=0&sig2=cC_3Xyvmmzeruq8hXpecUQ&zoom=1&tbnid=LvMLtIJQmF0-SM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=194&ei=a08TTr-vI5KFsgLhw-HUDw&prev=/search%3Fq%3DPETER%2BEASTWAY%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1434%26bih%3D1084%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divnso&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=146&vpy=434&dur=5665&hovh=147&hovw=343&tx=190&ty=75&page=1&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0). This might be too much for some, but at least it gives you an idea of what emphasizing the main point of interest is all about.
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Gosh, Slobodan, I had to put on my sunglasses to look at that one. Yes, it makes your point very well. So I guess the recipe is: First get yourself a good canyon with a nice curve, then fill it with molten gold to just the right height, thern set up your lights, and... ;)
Eric
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Francois is correct: it's Goosenecks State Park, in southern Utah, about an hour's drive north of Monument Valley. I've been there a couple of times and find it a rather lovely place, very quiet, with far fewer people than Horseshoe Bend, which I also visited. I recall the first time I went, about 15 years ago, marvelling at a chap spending what seemed like hours setting up a view camera, bellows, cloth cape and all (I was even more ignorant about photography then than I am now and I'd never before seen one actually being used).
Here's a colour version of the same shot. All I've done is reverse the b&w conversion in LR, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it could be considerably improved.
Slobodan, I take your point. If you travel with only a day or two in each place, you have to make do with what you can find and sadly the weather was bad when I was there (I took the shot of Monument Valley I posted recently the same evening). I just enjoy trying to produce something interesting.
I do like the Eastway photo. Nobody could confuse it with reality! Sadly, I'd left the furnace I usually use for melting gold back at the hotel.
Jeremy
[Edit: I've added another, wider shot of the scene. I've done nothing to this except default raw processing in LR and stitch in APP]
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Been there or at least somewhere similar, done that, applied to much manipulation, didn't win anything in the club competition, etc, but I think you all probably know the rest by now.
My version is of a place called Horseshoe Bend, located at the bottom end of the Grand Canyon. I do intend to go back though and have another go at it, as for my version of this type of image, I was stood right on the very edge when I took this image (wife holding onto my belt screaming loudly as I leaned forward to try and get it all in – the vista of course) and what a rush that was, because if memory serves me correctly, I think it is something like a sheer 2,000 foot drop at that point and my toes were right up to the edge – you can get a sense of size if you look really carefully to the left of the river bend about 8 O'clock, you can see what is quite a large boat that due to the scale, looks like a tiny little spec.
Also I would recommend if you do go to Horseshoe bend to have a go at taking this type of image and after your knees have stopped trembling, you then make a detour and take in the slot canyons just down the road, expensive, but well worth it.
Photobloke
Would have been interesting to know what she was screaming; let me go, damn you?
You can't leave us dangling on the edge of our seats, Phot!
;-)
Rob C
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To give you an idea what I prefer for the same/similar scene, check out this Peter Eastway's shot. (shot -my edit; RC) This might be too much for some, but at least it gives you an idea of what emphasizing the main point of interest is all about.
Excuse the edit, but on my monitor, if comes out as a huge jumble of code - so I tried to cut that out, just in case you get the same.
Beautiful picture; just the kind of stuff that could make even this old cynic think again about landscape. And stock agents swoon.
Rob C
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Well, I must say I love the Peter Eastway's shot but of course it is a matter of taste. The third photo Jeremy posted is exactly the type of photo I get all the time. I am at this gorgeous location, the lighting is ok but not great, the trip has been wonderful but when I open the photo in Photoshop it looks...average. One time a photographer told me, that post production is half the fun. I agree that you should get the best possible shot in the camera but sometimes I feel post editing is somehow a dirty word in the minds of some shooters. I kind of like the first photo in color though.
I guess I like the Eastway's photo because of the WOW factor, I have posted similar photos to Jeremy's in other forums and have gotten 1/4 of the comments his original photo got.
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I took the freedom for an edit.
Hope you like it.
0. Set to 16 bit mode
1. Duplicate layer
Gaussian blur new layer (don't remember the radius, but it was quite big)
2. Put new layer in a group, set the group to multiply mode (not pass through)
3. added levels to the group above the layer and tweaked it a bit.
4. added a final curve on top of all.
5. Merged and exported as 8 bit jpg
This method generally helps a lot if you have little global contrast but high local contrasts to get the balance between local and global contrasts back.
Time needed: 2-4 minutes
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Chris,
Your version goes in the direction I was asking for, but I think it carries it a little too far for my taste. I think you can soften the contrast some and still retain the sense of drama, while retaining detail in the shadows.
I wish I'd heard of Goosenecks State Park before my one trip to Utah a couple of years ago. I think I like the scene better than Horshoe Bend.
Eric
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Chris,
Your version goes in the direction I was asking for, but I think it carries it a little too far for my taste. I think you can soften the contrast some and still retain the sense of drama, while retaining detail in the shadows.
I wish I'd heard of Goosenecks State Park before my one trip to Utah a couple of years ago. I think I like the scene better than Horshoe Bend.
Eric
Yes, I agree. It was just a quick and dirty proof of concept, definitely not a final edit.
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Well, I must say I love the Peter Eastway's shot but of course it is a matter of taste. The third photo Jeremy posted is exactly the type of photo I get all the time. I am at this gorgeous location, the lighting is ok but not great, the trip has been wonderful but when I open the photo in Photoshop it looks...average. One time a photographer told me, that post production is half the fun. I agree that you should get the best possible shot in the camera but sometimes I feel post editing is somehow a dirty word in the minds of some shooters. I kind of like the first photo in color though.
I guess I like the Eastway's photo because of the WOW factor, I have posted similar photos to Jeremy's in other forums and have gotten 1/4 of the comments his original photo got.
Andres, that was my point, really. My wife and I had just over a week in Arizona / Utah. I'd been there before; she hadn't. We had decent weather at Grand Canyon and lots of sun in Page. When we reached Monument Valley, though, it was heavily overcast and raining. We went out to Goosenecks because I wanted to show her the place and since I probably won't return for years, I took some photographs. I knew as I took them that to produce anything worth paper and ink I'd need a lot of post-processing. I knew also that even with a fair bit of work, I might well end up with nothing.
Christoph, I like the idea of what you've done to the photo but like Eric, I think it's overdone. I appreciate it was more a proof of concept, though, and I'll see what similar effect I can manage. Thanks for the method tip, which I'm sure will have application elsewhere as well.
Eric, having now been to Horseshoe Bend, I too think I prefer Goosenecks, at least for black and white. The colours are more interesting at Horseshoe, which no doubt helps to explain its popularity.
Jeremy
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Would have been interesting to know what she was screaming; let me go, damn you?
You can't leave us dangling on the edge of our seats, Phot!
;-)
Rob C
My wife is very scared of heights and I am totally not, so whenever we hunt down a good landscape location and find something with a sheer drop (found some really good ones in Yosemite Valley last year), I find I have to go right up to the edge and dance about a bit like an idiot, or better still pretend I have stumbled, which makes her scream like a banshee - ah, what we do for love...?
Photobloke
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My wife is very scared of heights and I am totally not, so whenever we hunt down a good landscape location and find something with a sheer drop (found some really good ones in Yosemite Valley last year), I find I have to go right up to the edge and dance about a bit like an idiot, or better still pretend I have stumbled, which makes her scream like a banshee - ah, what we do for love...?
Photobloke
I guess that your wife would love Goosenecks. It's not too steep, at least compared the the vertical walls of Horseshoe Bend and you could dance all day long without risking too much!
;D
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My wife is very scared of heights and I am totally not, so whenever we hunt down a good landscape location and find something with a sheer drop (found some really good ones in Yosemite Valley last year), I find I have to go right up to the edge and dance about a bit like an idiot, or better still pretend I have stumbled, which makes her scream like a banshee - ah, what we do for love...?
Photobloke
That's love? That's terrorism!
Rob C
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... I do like the Eastway photo. Nobody could confuse it with reality! Sadly, I'd left the furnace I usually use for melting gold back at the hotel...
Hehe... nice one Jeremy!
Btw, this is my homage to Peter Eastway:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/3100666920_dbbfcba7f5.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/slobodan_blagojevic/3100666920/)
Egg Rock Lighthouse (http://www.flickr.com/photos/slobodan_blagojevic/3100666920/) by Slobodan Blagojevic (http://www.flickr.com/people/slobodan_blagojevic/), on Flickr
P.S. For those new to Flickr, once you are there, click again on the picture to see it larger and on a plain, black background
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Nice light, Slobodan.
Jeremy
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Right, Jeremy. There is only so much one can do in post-processing if the light was not good to start with. This was shot from a speeding catamaran (used for whale watching), at full speed, returning to the harbor at the end of the day. Hand-held, Canon 70-200/4 with a 1.4x converter. It was the strong, golden (though not this golden ;)) sidelight that caught my attention.
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Very nice, Slobodan. Great light on the hand of man always triumphs. Bravo!