Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Pro Business Discussion => Topic started by: biggiesnows on June 18, 2011, 04:03:08 pm

Title: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: biggiesnows on June 18, 2011, 04:03:08 pm
Hi-

Is there anyone on this forum making a living shooting landscapes? I've been a professional sports shooter for 15 years and have been shooting landscapes for the last few years out of personal interest. There is an endless amount of inspirational literature on the web and in print about making a living by following your passion but is anyone actually doing it anymore? I've heard that even Art Wolfe has quit the business and has become a painter. I'd like to learn more about the business if there is one.

Thanks in advance-Bill Stevenson www.theoutdoorpictureswebsite.com.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: michael on June 18, 2011, 05:49:02 pm
Art paints, but he has definitely not left photography. He shoots, teaches, writes and publishes books and videos.

While there are a handful of photographers making a solid living from shooting landscapes, most also teach, lecture, run workshops and write for web sites and magazines.

Even those that don't are busy running their own galleries, which in itself is a full time job.

Any way you cut it, lots of hard work. Still, most wouldn't trade it for anything else.

Michael
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: ternst on June 18, 2011, 05:59:35 pm
I don't know anyone who gets paid to "shoot" landscapes. You make money selling the products produced from those photographs (which includes the teaching part). Business, accounting, writing, and SALES are the skills that make you money in this business. I've been a fulltime nature photographer for 36 years - the shooting part is a lot of fun, but mostly I've been a salesman...
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Rob C on June 18, 2011, 06:14:08 pm
There might have been a time when such stock was viable... even then, it was bound to be at the shooter's risk.

Some stock agencies eventually paid shooters to shoot (and then took copyright) but mainly lifestyle, not landscape, as far as I was able to discover. The more I think about it, the damage really did begin before digital posed its fresh threats.

Whether all the rigmarole of selling via the long list of extra functions that Michael mentioned constitutes being a pro photographer is doubtful; to my mind - it smacks of the impossibility to make it in landscape via photography alone. Frankly, with all the added jazz, I can't imagine wanting to do it.

Rob C
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: biggiesnows on June 18, 2011, 08:07:59 pm
Thanks to those who've replied.

George Lepp is the middle of a series of articles about making it as a nature shooter and its insightful. It's no b.s..   www.georgelepp.com

Bill
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: bill t. on June 18, 2011, 09:10:36 pm
I'm doing very well with local interest landscapes.   But I don't bother with merely pretty pictures, those don't sell.  I don't offer a single picture from more than few miles outside the city limits.

Antelope Canyon?  Sorry, don't want to go broke!  I connect with local people literally where they live, and they love it.  My images tie into and even glorify the life experiences of those who buy them...oh we got married there, this is near where we live, we used to go here when we were kids, we used to get drunk here, see this scar...I fell off that thing right there, etc.

I sold several hundred sofa-sized framed canvases last year, all to my local market.  I hope to double that this year.  It took about 4 years to get to that point.  But my fate is completely cast with the local wind, I would be an unknown 50 miles up the road.

This is a best seller, the scene is located a couple miles north of Albuquerque.  Usual size for this framing treatment is about 34 x 100.  Hospitals, institutions, boardrooms, doctors' offices, reception rooms, corporate headquarters, and all that ilk can buy this certifiably local interest piece without the slightest fear of disapproval or criticism.  That's what it takes.  It's safe, it's local, it's dramatic, it sells.  And it's fun.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: David Eichler on June 18, 2011, 09:33:21 pm
There are commercial photographers who have specialties in shooting such subjects as golf courses, resorts and landscape design. Commercial art, not fine art, but it is still landscapes, and it is still the same techniques and making stuff look pretty.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: biggiesnows on June 18, 2011, 10:36:00 pm
Wow, great feedback. Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: tatibcn on June 19, 2011, 11:40:20 am
The german Photographer Susanne Wegner is doing Landscapes for Assignments and Exhibitions ... with huge sucess ...
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: biggiesnows on June 19, 2011, 04:19:09 pm
Thanks. I found her site; http://www.susannewegner.de/
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: David Eichler on June 20, 2011, 01:26:29 pm
An example:  http://www.lonnatucker.com/3/artist.asp?ArtistID=28931&Akey=W47S3H5X
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: louoates on June 20, 2011, 03:30:40 pm
I'm doing very well with local interest landscapes.   But I don't bother with merely pretty pictures, those don't sell.  I don't offer a single picture from more than few miles outside the city limits.

Antelope Canyon?  Sorry, don't want to go broke!  I connect with local people literally where they live, and they love it.  My images tie into and even glorify the life experiences of those who buy them...oh we got married there, this is near where we live, we used to go here when we were kids, we used to get drunk here, see this scar...I fell off that thing right there, etc.

I sold several hundred sofa-sized framed canvases last year, all to my local market.  I hope to double that this year.  It took about 4 years to get to that point.  But my fate is completely cast with the local wind, I would be an unknown 50 miles up the road.

This is a best seller, the scene is located a couple miles north of Albuquerque.  Usual size for this framing treatment is about 34 x 100.  Hospitals, institutions, boardrooms, doctors' offices, reception rooms, corporate headquarters, and all that ilk can buy this certifiably local interest piece without the slightest fear of disapproval or criticism.  That's what it takes.  It's safe, it's local, it's dramatic, it sells.  And it's fun.


I too am convinced you need to go local for consistent landscape sales. I have several galleries in the Phoenix area that consistently sell my landscapes particularly those of the Superstition Mountains. Most are large 64" to 96" canvasses. The key seems to be to have a much better print/canvas than the point and shoot crowd can produce on their own. Here is one of a dozen or so good sellers. Some have the words "Superstition Mountains" ala poster style. This one is one I customized for one of my galleries who requested this mountain scene behind Apache Junction AZ (pop. 35,000) without houses, roads, poles, wires, etc. The gallery sells both versions about equally. The scenes from within 50 miles outsell all my Antelope Canyon, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley scenes combined.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: kevk on June 21, 2011, 04:46:46 am
Interesting topic this one.
Can you chaps make any useful generalizations about the sell-ability of mounted canvas versus framed prints?
e.g. Do home decorators go for canvas and office decorators go for framed matted prints? Do people go for bigger canvases but smaller framed prints?

Thanks for sharing this.
Kevin
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on June 21, 2011, 07:42:42 am
Bill & Lou... I've just started selling my landscapes but so far my experience is pretty much in line with what you're stating here.  I'm curious to know if you are marketing yourself outside your immediate area other than through your website and how much business is actually generated via the website.  And conversely, how are you marketing yourself in your own area.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: bill t. on June 21, 2011, 12:19:32 pm
Only a modest amount of work outside my area, mere generic prettiness can't match local interest.

I tend to downplay my website.  Most of my sales are face to face of POS at about 6 local art fairs, and two galleries.  I have smaller but very lucrative venues in community centers, restaurants, city buildings, etc.  One of my best venues is a top-drawer community center where I have 200 feet linear feet of wallspace in conference rooms favored for meetings of doctors, lawyers, dentists, real-estate agents etc who feel powerfully attracted to local, city boosting art in wall-filling sizes.

Particularly in respect to the fairs and galleries, the mere mention of a website can work against me because an otherwise motivated customer may decide "to see everything you have on your website."  Bye bye sale.  Your website can be your enemy, if you're not careful.  I also don't push the site very much because it makes galleries nervous.  If you want to sell from good galleries, best not to have a selling website.

Less than 10% of my sales come from somebody seeing my work for the first time on my site.  I do get many email inquiries from people who would like to buy prints for about $10 (their idea of pricing) woohoo!

Marketing wise, the best thing I ever did was get into Art Fairs.  Nothing will get you recognition faster.  Go for up-scale, well-organized, indoor venues where you will get a high percentage of genuine, art-buying folks.  Start applying now, there are usually waiting lists.  After two or three of those you will find you have carved out a space in peoples' visual memory, recognition is everything.  A really good art fair can get you halfway to 6 figures, so don't anybody look down their noses at those things.  Except the bad ones (ie most of them) are wastes of time, you need to do some research before jumping.

So I guess what I'm saying is...in my case face to face beets the heck out of a website.  The Internet is common, and everybody on Earth is competing with you.  Face to face contact is special, and works for me in ways the web never could.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: louoates on June 21, 2011, 03:07:09 pm
I agree with all of billt's points. Especially his cautions about poor venues. In the Phoenix area there are countless very small local art fairs that cost nothing or just a few dollars to show. Lots of them are church and charity related or organized by shopping centers to drum up traffic for their tenants.  Avoid such shows like the plague. Most have only the smallest number of people actually coming to see art. I've seen many artists at such venues failing to make any sales at all, even with decent product at give-away prices. I've often recommended the larger shows that do indeed bring art buyers but the excuse, very lame, is that it costs $400-500 for a booth space. These artists are soon out of the business due to their failure to recognize that location is everything. So they turn down showing at an established show that draws 75,000+ people and waste their time at some pie-baking contest venture. The key here is that if you don't invest SOME money in such good shows you will never know if your work is salable. Simple as that. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you will get a feel for what your work can sell for. Dollars vote and you need enough potential voters to see your work.

I also see those artists who understand that you have to spend some money to make money. They are the artists who are at every one of those main venues. Year after year. Good economy and bad. What makes them successful beyond the location?
1) they have good solid values--good art at popular pricing
2) they have INVENTORY. You can't expect to sell 5 of your best items if you only have 1 that sells out on the first day.
3) they have multiple price points for the same image. Some framed, some prints only. All in 3 or 4 of the most popular sizes, usually 8x10 up to 24x30 image size.
4) many of the better selling artists have both canvasses and framed prints. And most have smaller note cards or mini-prints in the $10 range. Remember there are 75,000 impulse buyers streaming past your booth. 75,000 of them have at least $10 or $20 in their pockets.
5) they are sales-savvy. You won't hear them running off at the mouth about their art "qualifications" unless asked. They say things like "cash or credit card?" and "I've got only one of those prints left today".
6) you never hear them promote their web site. What can beat looking at their best work in person? "I'll shop on your web site" loosely translated means "you haven't got what I want."

 Sorry for lecturing so long about my personal views: One more topic.
I mentioned framing above. Who are terrible picture framers? Artists. Who are even worse picture framers? Photographers. If your work is not good enough to justify a decent frame job, sell only prints. You simply must find a good local framer that will give you professional work at a super affordable rate day after day. There are cost-aggressive framers who will value your constant business. Especially if you can standardize frame sizes and mat selection. Ditto for canvas stretching. You really need to find a good local stretcher that can cut wood bars to the exact size your work needs. At the decent art shows you will not see poor framing except at the booths of the poor souls who will never return.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on June 21, 2011, 10:31:33 pm
Thanks guys.. that's very helpful.  I'm also looking for ways to attract customers to my own gallery. My studio/gallery is main street, small town (pop 1,700) in a rural area, BUT our drawing area (within 40 kms) is probably closer to 250,000 with a large 'drive-by' traffic of people on their way to their cottages from further away.

I'm actually starting up a local studio tour with other artists in the area. Not for this year, but hopefully next.  Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: bill t. on June 21, 2011, 11:33:25 pm
Have you looked at the Andrew Collett interview in LLVJ-19?

Hope you do well with that gallery.  My wife had one years ago, and even in a 500,000 population city it was tough going.  Best traffic builder was to hold events designed to attract people BESIDES just impoverished artists!  If I were to open a gallery again it would definitely be in a well-established shopping mall.

Have you investigated framing styles that would go with the local cottage architecture?  I know a gal in Berkeley who does a good business with "arts & crafts" style framing of a design contemporary with the many restored and revamped "cottages" in the area.  She uses old California style, I'm sure your local equivalent would be different.  Here's a URL (http://www.framersworkshop.com/FineArtPrints/Yamamoto/index.html).  If you have a clientele with money to spend and a house to primp up, count yourself lucky.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on June 22, 2011, 08:04:09 am
Yes, I have Andrew's interview and it's very inspiring.  Unfortunately, I cannot afford the 9900, canvas stretcher, air-compressors etc. that he has to produce the large gallery wraps - not yet anyway.  His cottage market is probably 10 times what mine is - and with a higher level (read income) of clientele. 

However, I believe I do have a market and the framing styles idea is a good one.  Thanks for that link Bill.  Studio Tours are popular in this area, but there are none in my immediate area which is why I'm getting one started.  I've had a good response from artists so far, so when we have a solid base of quality work we'll proceed with those plans. 

As much traffic as a mall location would provide... I really don't want to be in one.  I worked in malls for many years (Radio Shack manager) and really don't want to go back.  Besides, you have to sell an awful lot of work just to make the rent!

My saving grace, I suppose, is that the gallery is also a working studio and I also shoot portraits, corporate and commercial work.  So far, it's been enough to keep me afloat.  But I have this body of work, landscapes, etc., that I've built up over 30 or so years that I've never marketed because I never had the location.  It's starting slowly, especially since I just moved to this location in December, but right now it's a growth area of my business and I'd like to expand it along with my photography workshops which have been quite successful as well.

Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: bill t. on June 22, 2011, 04:57:57 pm
Studio tours should be helpful in your upscale area.  Something about seeing the cobbler at work. I have never done one but the fabric artist across the street participates in a tour at six-month intervals and makes several sales each time, even though she is in a suburban neighborhood way off the beaten path.  Same goes for artists way the heck out of town in some rural communities.  It's like driving out to buy veggies at the farm.

We also have gallery events here in Albuquerque like First Friday which is moderately promoted by a semi full time staff.  Stay open late, food & drink, meet the artist, stuff like that.  Also usually tied into openings.  The results are mixed.  Galleries already in a relatively high traffic area near other venues get really good attendance.  But those in more isolated areas hardly see a bump.  The effect is that whatever traffic level is already in place gets magnified, but there is no special pixie dust for the out-layers.

So basically, studio tours are the better promotion scheme for outlaying galleries, "art crawls" are better if you happen to be in a cluster of venues near a location that is already a night-life destination.  People generally don't like to drive away from the bright lights on Friday night.

Mike it occurs to this is nothing new to you, I mention it for the benefit of the newbies.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: feppe on June 22, 2011, 05:05:59 pm
A farmer uncle of mine had a photographer stop by who had a proof print of his farm house taken in beautiful light. He bought a print of it. I assume the photographer went around the countryside and took photos of all (most) houses in an area, went home to develop the proofs, and returned with them.

Similar approach would be even easier these days with film by showing the shots right after shooting on a laptop, tablet, or one of those portable printers. Hell, I bet you could fit a wide-format printer in a van to further expedite sales. Just show a full-size print from another nearby house and say "look how beautiful Mr Shannon's house looks like, but I got yours in even better light!" :D
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: bill t. on June 22, 2011, 08:14:56 pm
I assume the photographer went around the countryside and took photos of all (most) houses in an area

This scene is in my neighborhood.  I took it just because I could and the light and colors were nice.

Houses and cars are normally the Kiss of Landscape Death.  However, I have sold at least many, many copies of this image to people who live in the houses you can see, or who live near the park, or who like me just pass by it every day, or who just find the image appealing.  It also shows an iconic local landscape feature which doesn't hurt a bit.  Food for thought, people like their parks.


Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on June 23, 2011, 08:15:32 am
Actually, it's fairly new to me as far as participating in a studio tour - but you've described my thinking down to a 'T'! It's nice to hear that my ideas have potential.  

Oh... and we roll up the sidewalks at 6:00pm (I usually close between 4:30 and 5:00) so there's not much opportunity in Elmvale, Ontario for an evening 'art crawl' ;)
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: tsjanik on June 25, 2011, 07:55:31 am
Hi Mike:

I agree with everything that has been posted here, especially the emphasis on local scenes.  I too live in a rural area (not far from you really) and I have limited experience with print sales, but I have been part of an open studio tour for a few years and it has worked well.    It is certainly less work than an art show and brings people who are sincerely interested in purchasing art, which is not always true at an art show.   This year I added note cards and small unframed prints (basically my proofs) which are inexpensive and sold very well as impulse purchases.   Selling large framed prints is nice, but many people are reluctant to spend that much.
http://www.chautauquaarttrail.com/

Tom
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on June 25, 2011, 08:44:36 am
i like the idea of note cards and small prints.  You really should have a product in many price ranges, I think. 

Hmmm... when selling note cards... is it considered bad taste to use a Limited Edition image on the card?
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on June 25, 2011, 02:55:41 pm
Afraid I do.... never done 'em before. 
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Schewe on June 25, 2011, 07:06:16 pm
Hmmm... when selling note cards... is it considered bad taste to use a Limited Edition image on the card?

That depends entirely on the manner in which you treat Limited Edition and define it...

If you are defining a Limited Edition as a hard count of the total number of reproductions of a specific image, then yes...

If you are defining a Limited Edition as a hard count of a specific print size and print run at that size, then no.

Limited Edition as a term is a slippery slope. It came from stone lithography where an artist would make a stone, print off some artist proofs to condition the stone and proof the printed image, once the artist decided that the stone was good, he would start printing and numbering them. At some point (not always the same point due to image detail) the stone would wear out–fail to produce the detail of the early numbered prints. At that point the printer literally broke the stone to assure no additional prints could be made.

So it was given that the earlier numbered prints were worth more because they better reflected the artists work while later numbered prints would be less good.

Limited Edition prints with photography is an artificial limitation made on the part of the photographer/print maker (and encourage by gallery owners and dealers) to give the illusion of scarcity. As we all know now, digital print number 1 can look just as good as digital print number 1,000,000,000. In fact the odds are as printing tech improves, later prints could look better due to improved printer technology in the hands of the printer.

So, you really need to determine what your definition of Limited Edition actually means and be willing to stick with it, essentially forever (or else you do a disservice to everybody who has bought your prints in the past).

Personally, I avoid ever using the term Limited Edition because, well, it really isn't...a digital original can always be reproduced over and over forever...

BTW, I did stone lithos in the day (a long, long time ago) and really got into the stone breaking ceremony...kinda like the story of Weston deciding he wanted to ensure nobody could make prints from his negs once he did a print run and took a pair of scissors to the negative to destroy them as proof positive nobody could ever make additional prints. Are you man enough to do something like that? Cool...otherwise, doing limited editions is really pretty silly (IMHO).
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: tom b on June 25, 2011, 08:03:26 pm
Just saw an exhibition of Catherine Nelson's (http://www.dominikmerschgallery.com/Guest.aspx?id=70&img=1019) highly manipulated landscape images.

1x1m face mounted prints AU$4900, 1.5x1.5m face mounted prints AU$6900. The exhibition has sold around 30 prints mostly 1.5x1.5m which I guess is approximately AU$180 000 worth of sales. I don't know how much time and effort went into creating the images so I can't comment on whether she is making a good living from it. Obviously the gallery would be making a very good profit from her work. The framers would be too, the face mounted prints look stunning and obviously were quite expensive to get done.

She has worked on films such as Moulin Rouge, Harry Potter, 300 and Australia, and is obviously very talented. Good luck to her.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: bill t. on June 25, 2011, 10:48:47 pm
Be careful of those notecards and small prints.  Yes, they sell easily.  But they usually give a rather poor return on time invested. I think most artists seriously underestimate the time they put in on those things.

And even worse, within the same venue they can both compete with and implicitly devalue high end framed versions of the same images.  Suppose you sell a framed piece for $500, and smaller matted prints for $50.  You need to sell 10 prints to equal one framed sale.  I think that usually at least one of those ten sales would be to somebody who might have bought the more expensive piece, but chose to buy the print to sort of defuse their acquisitive urgings.  You lose.  Or a potential high end client sees many cheap copies of an image floating about.  Lose again.

Just a theory, I but did notice that when I stopped selling cards and prints at art fairs, my sales of larger pieces went way up.  And getting view-blocking, space-sapping clumps of rummaging bodies out of one's booth has other advantages.  It's really just a bad idea to look too much like the Dollar Store.  Have also noticed that photographers who sell $20 matted 8x10's spend a lot of time with lowball clients that they should really be directing at potential high end buyers.

The balance would depend on venue, of course.  But IMHO the strange love affair between many artists and cheap cards and prints is counterproductive in most cases.  I think it often traces back to a basic lack of confidence.  Spend the time making a product with a better return on time.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Mike Guilbault on June 25, 2011, 11:22:31 pm
Excellent points Jeff.  My first instinct was to use limited editions, but after reading many posts here, mostly decided not to.  I was just going to number the prints as they were made and sold.  I figured that starting this business at age 54 will limit the editions enough! ;) 

Then I took one of my images to a frame shop a few days ago to get a custom mat cut and they requested a copy of it for their gallery.  They were quite convincing that LE was the 'only' way to go. Now this is someone that normally, I believe, sells mostly LE prints from painters and such, but I don't know how many photographic images they've sold. Still, they were quite convincing.

However, reading Brooks Jensen's articles (http://brooksjensenarts.com/pigmentonpaper.htm) were also pretty convincing and I think better suites my philosophy.  I have labeled one of my images as a LE so I guess I'll have to live with it.  I hate bookkeeping though and keeping up with editions sounds like an audit and more trouble than it's worth. I'm already a legend in my own mind, but that's as far as my fame goes.  I suppose it's better/easier to start limiting editions with new work when you have the name, if you feel the need.  Better at this point to make a sale, eh!

And your take on cards and small prints also makes sense Bill (I can usually relate very well to your answers and opinions).  I think if I do make some cards and small prints, they won't be the same as my framed, or even matted, works.  I have lots of images that are 'nice', but aren't worthy of serious printing, but would be fine as note cards.  I'll be careful not to spend an inordinate amount of time on these. 


Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: stevebri on July 10, 2011, 03:28:46 pm
Hi Mike and good luck with this, you don't know unless you try it.

Jeff has as usual, some great points, here are a few of mine if it helps.

I have switched over to fine art and a) am loving it and b) am doing very well, much better than I thought.

Limited editions are nothing new however Jen Beckman's 20x200 (http://www.20x200.com) is a more modern idea and does really well.  I adopted a similar idea on my work and the nice thing is I sell stuff, large and small.

Also, when you do a 'limited edition' as an artist you get closure, you can move on from that work knowing 'that's it'.  It free's the mind to go and create again.


Luckily I live in NYC, in a 'hood full or journalists and writers, film editors and people who are generally 'art aware'.  To be honest I sometimes sit outside my front door on Saturdays with a box of 16x20's and so far have never taken less than $500.

I think the fine art market is very much alive, and as more people get inspired by interior design/fix it shows they don't all want either an IKEA poster or an expensive rare photograph, they want something in between.  A bit like wine or fashion even, yes there is cheap stuff to take (or wear) at your neighbours sunday grill and their is upmarket wine costing thousands and of course the clothes to match.

Fine art too is like that, there is a ripe market for the discerning client in between those two extremes. Here's why, back in the last days of film, photography was in bad shape as a hobby.. losing out big time to computers and games, then came digital, everyone bought a digital camera, the rest is history... So, more people were taking pics again and this made millions more people aware of just how hard fine art photos can be, a new appreciation for 'the decisive moment' or the 'golden hour' was born.. Hence the shift in the middle for fine art photography.

I also believe taking a shop/store is a mistake, mentally you slow down and expect the store to pull people in... that's passive marketing and pretty negative if you ask me.

After 20 yrs of 'globalization' I think people now want 'localization' meeting local people and building a relationship with them and buying from them, just look at the booming success of etsy.

Hope some of this helps... more later, my son's just woken up.. :)

S
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: luong on September 02, 2011, 03:40:05 pm
Alain Briot shoots only landscapes and appears to make a good living, although I don't know if that's primarily from image sales.

I photograph also travel and cultural subjects, although a vast portion of my work is landscape. I've been making a living only from image sales. This on-going series of blog posts about my business may be of interest: http://terragalleria.com/blog/category/business-2/

A lot of the inspirational articles that you see are there to draw people to websites or photo schools. The reality is that this is a very difficult business, and getting harder by the year.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Mike Sellers on September 05, 2011, 07:41:09 am
I thought I would try to market my landscapes thru an Art Licensing agent so several years ago I got signed by Out of the Blue. They have licensed many of my images numerous times-even to companies in Europe but the sales have been dismal.I have been reading on this topic about how print sales are good despite the economy but that hasn`t been my experience at all.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: louoates on September 05, 2011, 01:20:50 pm
Earlier on this topic I mentioned the importance of having smaller prints available to take advantage of shoppers with lower budgets who like your work. I personally don't believe that if someone could afford $500 for a nicely framed photograph they would rather buy a $59 print in a plastic sleeve if it were available.

But there are some other drawbacks. Keep in mind that you do run the risk of copyright infractions. For a time I was doing b/w 11x14 prints for a local artist and giving him a very low price for very nice prints on quality paper for resale. I hadn't gotten an order from him in a while and was shocked to see him at an art show selling smaller prints for $10 each. Turns out he took my print of his work (I had made several small corrections of the original art) and had made, probably at Costco, very cheap lousy-looking photocopies. Sure, he was breaking the copyright law. And sure, I would never deal with him again.

A few months ago I received a call from a guy who was referred to me from a frame shop I often did enlargements for. This customer wanted to know if I could make a large canvas print from a smaller photograph on paper of the Grand Canyon. Sure, I said. From that print size I could possibly go up to 24 x 36 canvas. I asked him if he had taken the picture because I'd prefer to work from his original digital image or film negative. No, he said, he bought the small paper print from a photographer's studio in Sedona but the photographer wanted so much money (actually a fair price) for a larger size on canvas that he decided to see if he could have it enlarged himself to save money. He had no clue he was doing anything wrong. I explained that I couldn't do that because of the copyright laws nor could he do so by finding someone else. I suggested he buy the size he wanted from the artist and that I would probably charge around the same amount for the enlargement. I have no idea if he took my advice.

I also agree, as pointed out by an earlier comment, that there is an inordinate amount of work in producing small prints and note cards. One photographer I know makes custom bookmarks from her images that she resells for $1 ea. I guess it's nice to make a sale, but still....
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Andrew Teakle on September 28, 2011, 07:02:56 pm
Thank you all for your valuable and interesting contributions to this thread. This is a topic that greatly interests me as I have recently returned to Brisbane after traveling around Australia for almost two years to fill out my portfolio. With a friend, I have just started selling my work at a local lifestyle market with fairly high traffic and many international tourists. It has been a fairly slow start and we've felt the need to reduce prices (partly to compete with another photographer there whose work is modestly priced. All the other stallholders are complaining about this being the slowest trading they've ever seen and we're still making a profit. Just not enough at this stage to support two families. I have another day job which is certainly holding the photography back but which I feel I can't ditch.

Two points I really need to sort out in my mind that have been raised here are selling small, inexpensive prints, and selling local work. I have been shooting medium format plus 5DII and stitching most of my shots to create 1:3 panoramas. The resolution is enough to print very large yet at these markets most of the sales are small prints, postcards, greeting cards and $20 hardcover books that have been published by an established publishing house. We do sell quite a few modest canvases, too. As an artist with an artist's ego I believe the work is as good as anything in the country (for my style of landscape shooting) and would love to sell the work at comparable prices to the established photographers, but this may not be the venue. We have contemplated renting space for a really nice gallery but are nervous about taking on the costs in this economic climate (which seems to be finally catching up with us in Australia).

As for shooting locally, I do have a relatively small but nice collection of local work, but I'm now feeling the need to get many more shots from the region. Having said this, we're selling more landscapes from right around the country than just the local region. Maybe just the venue, though.

Anyway, thanks again for all your collective wisdom. I hope we can keep this thread alive.

Best regards,

Andrew
andrewteakle.com
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: feppe on September 28, 2011, 07:42:28 pm
Food for thought:

1. As opposed to competing with another nearby vendor on price, it might be more profitable to compete with quality or service, than cut margins and/or risk a price war.
2. Selling inexpensive [product] means high volume, which likely means high workload in manufacturing, selling and after-sales. You should always put value on your own time, and many small businesses underestimate the value of their time - especially since you have two jobs. Alain Briot in his latest book about marketing fine art photography goes to great lengths to explain why high volume doesn't make sense for individuals selling photography products, and I fully agree with him. There might be niches where it becomes profitable, though.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: louoates on September 28, 2011, 07:48:14 pm
feppe is right on. I'd forget about worrying about what another photographer is charging -- if you think your work is superior to his. Customers can tell the difference. You could always have smaller size work at his price points.
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Landscapes on October 03, 2011, 05:45:13 pm
Jumping into this thread kind of late, but I wanted to add my two cents.

I like to accumulate greath photographer websites in my browser bookmarks, and two photographers come to mind that I do believe are making a go at this full time, and especially not just in their local markets.

One is this guy names Peter Lik. 

http://www.peterlik.com/

He makes himself sound a little more important than he is in my opinion, but you can't knock him for his amazing ability to sell and market.  Considering that he has at least 10 galleries, I'd say he's doing quite well.

Here is another website that I image has quite a few sales, but really, who knows!  He looks like he is from Quebec, but travels quite a bit in North America it looks like.

http://www.difrusciaphotography.com/

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Michael West on October 05, 2011, 03:38:23 pm
This local guy once shot strictly landscapes.

http://www.martyknapp.com/
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: Andrew Teakle on October 09, 2011, 12:48:12 am
Food for thought:

1. As opposed to competing with another nearby vendor on price, it might be more profitable to compete with quality or service, than cut margins and/or risk a price war.
2. Selling inexpensive [product] means high volume, which likely means high workload in manufacturing, selling and after-sales. You should always put value on your own time, and many small businesses underestimate the value of their time - especially since you have two jobs. Alain Briot in his latest book about marketing fine art photography goes to great lengths to explain why high volume doesn't make sense for individuals selling photography products, and I fully agree with him. There might be niches where it becomes profitable, though.

Thanks feppe and louoates,

Have taken your advice and put my prices closer to what I feel is appropriate (but still a mile short of my compatriot, Peter Lik, who incidentally has his last remaining Australian gallery close-ish) and it hasn't reduced my print sales, just increased my revenue.

Bill T, I'm also investigating displaying my work at community centers and corporate meeting venues. On what basis do you have your work in that type of establishment? Lease the space, offer a percentage of the sales etc?

Thanks again to everyone for your input.

Best regards,

Andrew
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: feppe on October 09, 2011, 08:37:32 am
Thanks for the update, hope things continue working out for you!
Title: Re: Anyone making a living with landscapes?
Post by: John MacLean on October 09, 2011, 04:43:39 pm
Steve Jobs had the same philosophy!

Be careful of those notecards and small prints.  Yes, they sell easily.  But they usually give a rather poor return on time invested. I think most artists seriously underestimate the time they put in on those things.

And even worse, within the same venue they can both compete with and implicitly devalue high end framed versions of the same images.  Suppose you sell a framed piece for $500, and smaller matted prints for $50.  You need to sell 10 prints to equal one framed sale.  I think that usually at least one of those ten sales would be to somebody who might have bought the more expensive piece, but chose to buy the print to sort of defuse their acquisitive urgings.  You lose.  Or a potential high end client sees many cheap copies of an image floating about.  Lose again.

Just a theory, I but did notice that when I stopped selling cards and prints at art fairs, my sales of larger pieces went way up.  And getting view-blocking, space-sapping clumps of rummaging bodies out of one's booth has other advantages.  It's really just a bad idea to look too much like the Dollar Store.  Have also noticed that photographers who sell $20 matted 8x10's spend a lot of time with lowball clients that they should really be directing at potential high end buyers.

The balance would depend on venue, of course.  But IMHO the strange love affair between many artists and cheap cards and prints is counterproductive in most cases.  I think it often traces back to a basic lack of confidence.  Spend the time making a product with a better return on time.