Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: design_freak on May 18, 2011, 12:01:06 pm
-
Yesterday I helped a colleague at the other photos of product. We used 210mm lens with two extension tubes I'm shocked at how this whole structure was moving a few millimeters. And this meant a change of the frame. In the end we wound up these pictures on the old 503Cw where everything is perfectly folded. It's the fault of those particular units??? Or H system is so Low Quality??? How it looks in Phase One?
-
I've used the Hasselblad V system off and on for 40 years and more recently the H system, which I've now sold in favor of Phase One. In my mind, there is no comparison between the quality of the H system and the superior quality of Phase One. I abandoned my H since I didn't feel the lenses were truly digital quality, especially compared to my true digital lenses used in my Alpa System. I use the Schneider LS lens with my Phase One and have never had sharper lenses. I have one extension tube which I've used and the entire setup remains solid--I've not tried it with 2 extension tubes nor have I ever used extension tubes with the H system, so can't comment on that. I will say, that in my opinion, Phase One has taken over as the top dog in MF digital photography, and it's superiority in lenses and camera show up with the higher resolution higher MP digital backs which have no room for error. I think I'm being pretty even handed in saying the above--I've always loved Hasselblad, and initially really liked the H system until I started comparing my images taken with the same HR DB with images taken with my Alpa using the view camera true digital lenses. the open system of the Phase One is also a big point for me.
-
I think if PhaseOne released a camera body worthy of the new IQ backs and lenses in quality and innovation, then Hasselblad would be in serious trouble. That's the only part of the system lagging behind right now, even though it's nowhere as bad as it's generally made out to be. IMO of course.
-
Yesterday I helped a colleague at the other photos of product. We used 210mm lens with two extension tubes I'm shocked at how this whole structure was moving a few millimeters. And this meant a change of the frame. In the end we wound up these pictures on the old 503Cw where everything is perfectly folded. It's the fault of those particular units??? Or H system is so Low Quality??? How it looks in Phase One?
Its really something to see this post as I have also experienced the same results with my Hassy 210 and 150 with extension tubes. Really inferior image quality that I have not experienced with other systems. Very odd!!
Victor
-
Ahh yet another thread attacking Hasselblad from DesignFreak..
I'm sure DesignFreak used to sell Hasselblads but clearly doesn't any more, I'm thinking there is some back story here.
As for extension tubes I use them daily and don't see any loss of quality, nor would I expect to, maybe the air in your locations is not as optically pure as we have down here...
-
I use extension tubes with 5 different H lenses and also in a combination of a lens, a teleconverter and an extension tube and haven't experienced any problems. Everything sits in the mount as tight as it should be.
Something was wrong with the particular system you've tried.
-
ok lets put this straight
if you put an extension tube on your camera, then a lens on the extension, the end result is a rattling product
your options are
-go straight to the service and have them look at it
-be careful not to drop your camera again
not post a topic here asking why it does
thats just in general, even with a Samsung DSLR
and FYR
my H tube works fine
-
and FYR
my H tube works fine
same here
-
Sounds like wear and tear or just plain damage to me. I used 'blads for a few years and I would be lying if I said it was my favorite system but that is a personal thing and there is no arguing that it is a top camera in every way.
-
No no, he is right. I have used my HC210 with extention rings and it moved some mm's too. I used it with the 52mm, 26mm extention ring plus the HTS....guess what if I put some force to the front of the lens I could move it several mm's!! Surely everybody can sense the sarcasm in this post? Nonetheless I actually used this contraption, it worked even though Hasselblad says it should not or it is not recommended.
Designfreak used to sell Hasselblad but no longer and obviously has a debt to settle with Hasselblad in more than 1 way.
-
IQ is ok. Built quality of some elements - not. Configuration not recomend by Hasselblad... In V SYSTEM, everything working fine in any combination. 20 years ago gave to accomplish. And today, with the current technology can not??!!
The most sad thing is the Gentlemen of the Hasselblad resent the comments that are not sucked from the finger.
-
I think if PhaseOne released a camera body worthy of the new IQ backs and lenses in quality and innovation, then Hasselblad would be in serious trouble. That's the only part of the system lagging behind right now, even though it's nowhere as bad as it's generally made out to be. IMO of course.
I think so , if Hasselblad doesn't change something very soon they will have serious problems, I was a Blad fan I am actually not sure to buy an Hasselblad again
they much change price quality features , actually they keep the name
-
Why is it always Hasselblad that gets picked on: lets talk abouth Phase one Mamiya: all Mamiya lenses are optical inferior to the Hasselblad lenses except for the 120mm Macro. Built quality of thye mamiya lenses is crap. The mamiya AFD123 bodys are not even worth mentioning, the DF is still a joke, even compared to an old H1 from 2004. Phase lenses are abouth the same quality as Hasselblad lenses, not better in no way.... but also cost as much as their hasselblad counterparts. The Phase one backs are ok but also no better than the H backs, except again for the IQ180 probably ( i have not had a chance to buy one to do some good testing.
Abouth the closed system, that is also only marketing bs: only an extreme small percentage of the hasselblad users do consider changing to the mamiya platform, and these people are not the customers a company wants, a phase user that once understand the benifits of the Hasselblad concept will not want an other back. Now it is up to Phase one to come up with a similar good system ( and i am sure they will do so very soon). But at this moment there is no reason to think hasselblad is in any respect inferior to Mamiya/Phase..... no way. ::)
-
Why is it always Hasselblad that gets picked on: lets talk abouth Phase one Mamiya: all Mamiya lenses are optical inferior to the Hasselblad lenses except for the 120mm Macro. Built quality of thye mamiya lenses is crap. The mamiya AFD123 bodys are not even worth mentioning, the DF is still a joke, even compared to an old H1 from 2004. Phase lenses are abouth the same quality as Hasselblad lenses, not better in no way.... but also cost as much as their hasselblad counterparts. The Phase one backs are ok but also no better than the H backs, except again for the IQ180 probably ( i have not had a chance to buy one to do some good testing.
Abouth the closed system, that is also only marketing bs: only an extreme small percentage of the hasselblad users do consider changing to the mamiya platform, and these people are not the customers a company wants, a phase user that once understand the benifits of the Hasselblad concept will not want an other back. Now it is up to Phase one to come up with a similar good system ( and i am sure they will do so very soon). But at this moment there is no reason to think hasselblad is in any respect inferior to Mamiya/Phase..... no way. ::)
Maybe because nobody at Hasselblad seem to care? How many times have you read bona fide questions about Hasselblad and have the Phase one people answer (normally in a productive good fail manner) because there is no answer from Hasselblad's David Grover?
It will be different if Hasselblad's people turn this into a "how to use the extensions for best results" conversation. That will bore the trolls to dead (not saying that the original poster is a troll), and in cases of legitimate concerns it will be helpful.
Best regards,
James.
-
Why is it always Hasselblad that gets picked on: lets talk abouth Phase one Mamiya: all Mamiya lenses are optical inferior to the Hasselblad lenses except for the 120mm Macro. Built quality of thye mamiya lenses is crap. The mamiya AFD123 bodys are not even worth mentioning, the DF is still a joke, even compared to an old H1 from 2004. Phase lenses are abouth the same quality as Hasselblad lenses, not better in no way.... but also cost as much as their hasselblad counterparts. The Phase one backs are ok but also no better than the H backs, except again for the IQ180 probably ( i have not had a chance to buy one to do some good testing.
Abouth the closed system, that is also only marketing bs: only an extreme small percentage of the hasselblad users do consider changing to the mamiya platform, and these people are not the customers a company wants, a phase user that once understand the benifits of the Hasselblad concept will not want an other back. Now it is up to Phase one to come up with a similar good system ( and i am sure they will do so very soon). But at this moment there is no reason to think hasselblad is in any respect inferior to Mamiya/Phase..... no way. ::)
I don't know why the perception of this forum being an anti-Hasselblad forum has flourished. To me, I feel the criticism has been quite equally distributed, in fact I think overall, there's been more gripes targeted at Phase One than Hasselblad. Generally the Hasselblad bashing seems to come from a few sources that are louder and more persistent than others. Perhaps that's what gets remembered. Certainly there's a lot of Phase One activity, the owners of the forum are Phase One users, and Doug and I are quite an active presence in our inimitable way, but David Grover of Hasselblad and Yair Shahar of Leaf also make appearances, and actually no one from Phase One does. This paints a different story than what is presented. One should keep in mind that David and Yair also have a lot of other responsibilities that impact their participation, but they do contribute.
Steve Hendrix
-
Sorry Steve, I disagree with you on this. I have seen a lot of topics opened just to point to one or more weaknesses (perceived or not) of Hasselblad. I have rarely seen this for P1. Indeed there are even some people that are pretty loud for whatever reason. If what you believe to be the case is actually true, there would be people complaining about this forum being anti-P1 as well. Sofar I have not yet seen those.
-
Maybe because nobody at Hasselblad seem to care? How many times have you read bona fide questions about Hasselblad and have the Phase one people answer (normally in a productive good fail manner) because there is no answer from Hasselblad's David Grover?
It will be different if Hasselblad's people turn this into a "how to use the extensions for best results" conversation. That will bore the trolls to dead (not saying that the original poster is a troll), and in cases of legitimate concerns it will be helpful.
Best regards,
James.
Excuse me???
First of all thanks to Steve for pointing out that there is no person directly from the Phase One factory commenting.
Secondly, my job title is not "Luminous Landscape Fire Extinguisher" and I don't ruthlessly patrol this forum 24 hours a day looking for Hasselblad subjects. As Steve also points out people like myself and Yair have numerous other responsibilities, as much as we would love to spend all day on the internet. Therefore we cannot catch all posts.
People know who I am, how to contact me, so if they have a question, then please send me a PM and I will answer it ASAP.
Its posts like this that make me rather spend my time on forums such as the Hasselblad Digital Forum and GetDpi. James, have some professional courtesy please!
Regarding "design_freak" and his instant transition from No1 Fan to No1 Enemy is related to that fact that he used to represent us in an area of Eastern Europe and no longer does, due to not complying with his contractual obligations.
Regarding the Extension tubes. They share exactly the same fit and mount as the H lenses and therefore I would not expect any abnormal play in their fitment. Therefore if anyone is experiencing this then it would be wise to call in for a service.
Best Regards,
David
-
Regarding "design_freak" and his instant transition from No1 Fan to No1 Enemy is related to that fact that he used to represent us in an area of Eastern Europe and no longer does, due to not complying with his contractual obligations.
That explains it.
Until very recently he was just as vocal with his die hard support of Hasselblad! Always wondered where the overnight hate came from.
As a Phase user I feel the Hasselblad system is a great but with some elements I don't like (hence devoted P1 user) one thing that I've never questioned, especially with the lenses is the build quality.
Must be all in his head. ::)
-
David,
Thanks so much for chiming in here. Indeed that does explain a lot. I personally hate to see any rep, distributor, or paid promotor of a product post without a clear acknowledgement of that relationship in their signature or in their posts themselves. Unless I've forgotten it design_freak did not do so before that relationship ended.
There is plenty to gripe about any manufacturer without having to parse through superfluous griping. For the record, as someone who sells the competition, I find the build quality of the Hassy lenses to be excellent.
Please don't let anything like this keep you from continuing your participation on the board. It's great to have you here - great to have direct representation from Hassy. As with most forums the tone is often muddied by a small but more vocal minority.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/") | RSS Feed (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/")
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/")
-
Phase lenses are abouth the same quality as Hasselblad lenses, not better in no way.... but also cost as much as their hasselblad counterparts.
It's statements like this that really do kind of irk me re: gripes.
I've used nearly every hassy lens* and every phase/schneider lens enough both in casual use and careful comparisons to call myself an expert. I have no problem saying that there are lenses in the Hassy line that are better all-round lenses than the nearest equivalent in the Phase/Schneider line. Likewise there are lenses in the Phase/Schneider line which are clear better all-round lenses than then nearest equivalent in the Hassy lineup. And I'm not talking about picking nits or minor differences but significant/meaningful differences in sharpness, chromatic aberration, and lens draw. To muddy up the water even more the Phase/Mamiya platform can accept a huge variety of third party and speciality optics since it has a focal plane in addition to leaf-shutter compatibility.
So any statement that either lens line is "not better in no way" is far too blanket for me and would lead a potential user/buyer to excuse themselves from the deeper research that's needed to determine what's going to work best for them.
*the new mark II versions (David, can you update/clarify us on availability/lead-time on orders of those lenses?) and the HCD lenses which are locked out from use on an H2 body I have not used.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/") | RSS Feed (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/")
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/")
-
:)
-
Sorry Steve, I disagree with you on this. I have seen a lot of topics opened just to point to one or more weaknesses (perceived or not) of Hasselblad. I have rarely seen this for P1. Indeed there are even some people that are pretty loud for whatever reason. If what you believe to be the case is actually true, there would be people complaining about this forum being anti-P1 as well. Sofar I have not yet seen those.
Mmmm....no I don't think so Ray. And that was my point, and I think that is the reality, that there are some who post in dramatic tones, and for whatever reason, they tend to do that towards Hasselblad. But that is generally only a couple guys. I don't think that makes the whole forum anti-Hasselblad or pro-Phase One. If you search by name *Phase One* and by *Hasselblad* in the MF threads, going back until early 2010, these are the topic titles that came up that had any negative or potential negative implication for either brand:
Phase One
*Have Phase One screwed up? [resumed]
*Why not a CMOS sensor in the Phase One IQ series?
*Leaf LC11 11.3.6 and Phaseone DF crashes, bugs, stalls and other mysteries
*35mm problems on Phase One DF and AFD/III ?
*URGENT! need help for my damaged phaseone files...
*Phase One P65+ raw issue
*Maze/mosaic patterns in Phase One files
Hasselblad
*Hasselblad Lens Error Message
*Hasselblad light leak question
Steve Hendrix
-
I found some more:
Introducing the Hasselblad Royal Edition
If you want to buy Hasselblad
Hasselblad wants $1300 to clean my CCD
Naturally those are only the titles. You are right, in most cases the most vicious persons are the usual suspects. I wonder why, I have never felt the need or urge to try to bring down any of the brands I am not using at that particular moment in time. People choose there tools for what ever reason. There are circumstances I would currently suggest someone to have a serious look at either Leaf or a P1 product based upon their needs. The persons bashing on any tool often have a hidden agenda of why they do it and many times objectivity does not play a role in that. Having said that I also feel this forum often has an anti-HB bias more so than an anti-P1 bias, maybe that perception is not justified. For the moment my perception is still this way, maybe it gets proven wrong to me over time. We will see. OTOH, I don't loose a second of sleep over it so don't find it really important.
-
I found some more:
Introducing the Hasselblad Royal Edition
If you want to buy Hasselblad
How are these negatives?
Hasselblad Product announcement.
Instructions on how to buy Hasselblad.
Are those not positive titles?
Rejoinder: See that's exactly what I'm talking about! ;D
Steve Hendrix
-
;D Yeah right ;D
-
Ray,
If it makes you feel any better the CFii-39MS back came out on top in my testing just recently and I've bashed the DF body plenty. I have now backs from all three and each has their strengths, same for the software. I don't really think the forum is anti hasselblad or singles them out. There are a few individuals that are let's say irrationally exuberant about certain makes, like myself and Rollei, or that guy for stitching with the D3X, but its all part of the forum community.
Eric
-
:) Thanks Eric. I have absolutely no problems with people that are in love with the tools they use. On the contrary, I believe that is a good thing.
-
As Eric and Ray, i also want to see myself what a camera or back is worth in real life. But i also have a weakness for some brands such as Carl Zeiss Jena, Kiev and Dallmeyer because they made such great lenses that render so great on MFD. For now i think i would like to become an assistent to a photographer, just to be able to compare his or her way of working with my probably totally obsolete way of taking pictures ;D
-
Excuse me???
First of all thanks to Steve for pointing out that there is no person directly from the Phase One factory commenting.
Secondly, my job title is not "Luminous Landscape Fire Extinguisher" and I don't ruthlessly patrol this forum 24 hours a day looking for Hasselblad subjects. As Steve also points out people like myself and Yair have numerous other responsibilities, as much as we would love to spend all day on the internet. Therefore we cannot catch all posts.
People know who I am, how to contact me, so if they have a question, then please send me a PM and I will answer it ASAP.
Its posts like this that make me rather spend my time on forums such as the Hasselblad Digital Forum and GetDpi. James, have some professional courtesy please!
Regarding "design_freak" and his instant transition from No1 Fan to No1 Enemy is related to that fact that he used to represent us in an area of Eastern Europe and no longer does, due to not complying with his contractual obligations.
Regarding the Extension tubes. They share exactly the same fit and mount as the H lenses and therefore I would not expect any abnormal play in their fitment. Therefore if anyone is experiencing this then it would be wise to call in for a service.
Best Regards,
David
Ok. My intention was not offending you. You are right that my starting comment was unnecessary and more motivated by frustration than nothing. But:
1. Phase one don't need any official representative here. I believe that is pretty evident. Representatives do an extraordinary work.
2. What I described about the help provided by Phase one people is true.
3. Agree that my wording was not the best by far. Also I have a non photography related training and I could not help but do the experiment to see If we can magically conjure your presence mentioning your name. In one occasion I did so in order to get help for someone (60mpixel broken filter on Get DPI). When
I insist that you are right "don't seem to care" was unnecessary rude. About your solution to call you if someone need help we will. But it's easy to just mention your name in a post.
Best regards,
James.
Note:
To avoid confusion when I say magic I don't imply that your presence here is only by magic is just a reference that we can summon you. In other words it's a joke.
-
Ok. My intention was not offending you. You are right that my starting comment was unnecessary and more motivated by frustration than nothing. But:
1. Phase one don't need any official representative here. I believe that is pretty evident. Representatives do an extraordinary work.
2. What I described about the help provided by Phase one people is true.
3. Agree that my wording was not the best by far. Also I have a non photography related training and I could not help but do the experiment to see If we can magically conjure your presence mentioning your name. In one occasion I did so in order to get help for someone (60mpixel broken filter on Get DPI). When
I insist that you are right "don't seem to care" was unnecessary rude. About your solution to call you if someone need help we will. But it's easy to just mention your name in a post.
Best regards,
James.
Note:
To avoid confusion when I say magic I don't imply that your presence here is only by magic is just a reference that we can summon you. In other words it's a joke.
James,
There are easier and more professional ways to "summon" me as opposed to throwing an insult.
In this case a friend of mine sent me a link to the thread after my aforementioned summoning.
David
-
There are easier and more professional ways to "summon" me as opposed to throwing an insult.
In this case a friend of mine sent me a link to the thread after my aforementioned summoning.
Yes, in David's defense it's kind of implying a negative that you "summoned" him. While David, Steve, YaYa and I all spend time on the forums it's often in waves, at odd times during "off hours", and often days (or sometimes weeks) pass between our opportunities to do so. If you want to reach David I'm very confident (from the rare times I've needed to reach him and from his reputation with others) that he can be reached very quickly via his phone/email.