Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Simon J.A. Simpson on May 07, 2011, 05:11:39 am
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This is an important and urgent warning to all Canon EOS 5D owners.
In April I was in Turkey on a photographic trip – fortunately some private work and not a commercial assignment.
On the fifth day of my three week visit the reflex mirror of my Canon EOS 5D fell out having detached itself from the cradle !
After some extensive research on the internet I found that this is a common and frequent problem with EOS 5Ds (the MkI not the MkII) and is as a result of the glue, which holds the mirror onto the cradle, failing. In my case all four glue spots failed at the point of contact with the cradle. The mirror was irrevocably damaged when it fell out of the body. Sadly, since I only had one EOS body with me, this was the end of the photography I had planned for the trip.
Further research on the internet reveals that Canon have known about this problem since 2008, and published an advisory on their US and European websites in February 2009 (it has also been reported on this forum).
Furthermore it appears that all EOS 5D MkIs are effected (mine was from a late production batch and certainly earlier batches are documented as having be effected). It is only a question of time, therefore, before the glue fails and the mirror will detach itself from the cradle. Thus all Canon EOS 5D MKI owners will need to get their cameras fixed as a matter of some urgency before they suffer the same consequences.
Canon have not issued a product recall even though there is a clear and pressing need for one. Moreover they appear not to have taken any steps whatsoever to inform 5D owners that their cameras are seriously at fault and that they risk losing full functionality without warning. Although an “advisory” note is posted on their US and European websites this is not immediately obvious nor accessible (http://tinyurl.com/amnyyr). In my case, my 5D is registered with Canon online. I receive regular marketing emails but not one informing me of this problem. Had I known, in 2009, that this was an issue I would have sent my camera to Canon for repair without any hesitation. And then would not have wasted an expensive trip to Turkey in 2011 for a photographic project which I was unable to even get started.
Canon offer a free repair service although in the UK you will have to pay for sending the camera to the repairer yourself (a number are listed on Canon’s website: http://tinyurl.com/oseayj . My research, so far, reveals that the problem is confined solely to the EOS 5D MkI and that no other Canon models appear to be effected.
All Canon EOS 5D MkI users are likely to be effected by this issue and they should get their camera back to Canon for repair as a matter of some urgency.
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Hardly "urgent", Simon - as you've now found, this problem and its solution have been in the public eye for years.
And there's no need for a product recall - many folk will never have this happen, and it's well-enough publicised, one way or another, that anyone who's worried about it can get the work done proactively if they want.
I guess I'm saying that this might be news to you, but it's not news.
Oh - and while I sympathise about the spoiled holiday, I wouldn't dream of going on a "photographic trip" without a back-up body...
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What if he has no second body? Just asking.
Eduardo
Hardly "urgent", Simon - as you've now found, this problem and its solution have been in the public eye for years.
And there's no need for a product recall - many folk will never have this happen, and it's well-enough publicised, one way or another, that anyone who's worried about it can get the work done proactively if they want.
I guess I'm saying that this might be news to you, but it's not news.
Oh - and while I sympathise about the spoiled holiday, I wouldn't dream of going on a "photographic trip" without a back-up body...
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Based on over 25 years of experience as a repair tech, I can state that...
It is not a common problem, and not "all" 5Ds are going to suffer from this. So far I've re-glued mirrors in a total of three cameras(have also re-glued mirrors in Minoltas). The general consensus is that the combined cause is both environmental and the use of an adhesive that didn't show it's limitations until well after the product was brought to market. Unfortunately the days of extensive field testing of prototypes is mostly over and this sort of problem is possible with any new consumer product. The automotive industry is a good example. And when any product is cranked out by the tens of thousands, or more, there's bound to be some defective units, and some are bound to get by QC.
No one is happy when on the receiving end, but life is not perfect. Myself, I've been having some difficulties, including on a recent trip, with a very high end piece of gear. But it's my personal experience and in no way feel compelled to publicly condemn the company. Many others are using the product with no problems whatsoever. Yeah I'm a bit miffed, but...
However, I could go on about another large camera company who ported several engineering designs over from their film lines that have a much higher failure rate than the 5D and there seems to be no screeching in the blogosheres.
PS - As far as I know the factory repair for this, mirror detached or not, is still to replace the entire mirror box and Canon service would probably not perform the repair if the mirror was intact.This is a very expensive repair, so if you saved the mirror it might be better to have it performed by an independent tech. If the mirror is still attached to the frame there is a good possibility of damaging the mirror while removing it for re-gluing. The mirror is only sold with the mirror box box assembly.
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Nuts
Bought a 5D about five years ago as I was in Namibia for two years as my first FF body.
Bounce, dust and heat on 36k of road trips.
Sold to a mate on leaving. It had the same use for two years or so before being sold to a tour guide who uses this camera A LOT.
We are all friends so I know how it's used.
WE are talking camping in riverbeds, wildlife, landscape, seascapes lots of hiking.
I get fed up with bitching about this body. Yes there have been issues but it's not the drama it's made out to be.
The cost of this camera for the performace when it hit the market was exceptional and if you want a rock deal with the weight and heft of the Pro built version.
I now have a 5D 11, two years and guess what,
1 It focusses.
2 I only see banding noise in the sort of light that is rubbish
3 It has not fallen apart.
4 The battery door does not creak.
5 There are different battery options that work.
6 I am still not using all of the cameras potential.
7 I'm gagging for the next version but don't expect it soon and may hang onto this one.
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Well, I'm totally with Simon on this one.
It isn't a matter of brands, it's a matter of the hapless public doing the final inspection and buying the duds that should have never made it to market.
It's a despicable practice, and I believe one should name and shame until they decide to do something about the woeful state of affairs that's currently accepted, as some of the repies indicate it obviously is. It isn't enough to feel miffed and do zilch; you have to make your displeasure felt!
Rob C
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Now I'm very deceived with Canon !
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=50384.0
I bought the CP800 in december and return it ASAP, received another one, same problem !
And now you can see that I'm not the only one, and the problem is still not fixed !!
Very deceived with Canon.
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It's interesting isn't it…
My aim was to inform not criticise.
You try to do folk a favour by informing them of a critical problem which may well have a profound effect their photography and you get some people who seem to delight in rubbishing one's efforts by sarcastic and patronising remarks.
It's a real shame.
Sighs heavily.
Notes:
1: 'Clearair', no one's "bitching" about this camera. It's a great camera – unstuck mirrors notwithstanding. There's no "bitching" in my post. If you don't avail yourself of Canon's free prescriptive repair that's your choice.
2: 'schrodingerscat', I can only go on the numerous reports of this problem posted on the internet which seem to indicate that this problem is not confined to an unfortunate few as you suggest. Given the evidence I have gathered it seems only reasonable to conclude that it is only a question of time before the glue holding the mirror onto the cradle fails and this is likely to happen to all of the 5D MkI bodies Canon produced. Canon have not provided any evidence to the contrary.
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Combined, my 2 5D1's have 350,000 shots taken with them. Just had to replace the shutters and they're still going strong. I hope the 5D3 gets back to 5D1 image quality because the 5D2's are lackluster. Yeah there's resolution, but there's no soul.
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Combined, my 2 5D1's have 350,000 shots taken with them. Just had to replace the shutters and they're still going strong. I hope the 5D3 gets back to 5D1 image quality because the 5D2's are lackluster. Yeah there's resolution, but there's no soul.
Ah, soul; for that, you'd best try film again...
;-)
Rob C
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I have since Feb of this year ;D Yeah, THAT'S got some soul. For recording with 1's and 0's the 5D1 does pretty well.
Ah, soul; for that, you'd best try film again...
;-)
Rob C
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Combined, my 2 5D1's have 350,000 shots taken with them. Just had to replace the shutters and they're still going strong. I hope the 5D3 gets back to 5D1 image quality because the 5D2's are lackluster. Yeah there's resolution, but there's no soul.
What a load of crap.
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Hi simonS The tone (use of bold text) of your post came across as more of a rant than a heads up information piece.
This subject has been discussed before after all.
The bitching comment was global. Not confined to one individual but to this camera. Success has it's detractors.
Film??
As an aside, But not to throw wood on the fire, two bodies have failed in the field that I owned.
Both film. As to soul, eeerrr it's a machine. IQ does the job.
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Hi simonS The tone (use of bold text) of your post came across as more of a rant than a heads up information piece.
This subject has been discussed before after all.
The bitching comment was global. Not confined to one individual but to this camera. Success has it's detractors.
Film??
As an aside, But not to throw wood on the fire, two bodies have failed in the field that I owned.
Both film. As to soul, eeerrr it's a machine. IQ does the job.
Really?
Rob C
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Bold type also attracts attention to important pieces of information …
Another point of information about whether or not this problem is likely to effect all or most 5D MkIs:
Canon have offered a free pre-emptive or prescriptive repair irrespective of whether the mirror has fallen out or not. This would seem to suggest that Canon may believe that all 5D MkI bodies can develop this problem.
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Really what?
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I think for once top marks to Canon.
Free repair of some kind even if no problem with the camera. I'm sure you are right on this but I have doubts as to trying it here in the UK. I will drop my contact in Parks or directly to CPS to get a response.
How many of us would send in a perfectly working camera for a repair that is not needed. It's not like a potential fault on a car's brake or throttle.
I indicated that in my limited experience in handling only about three of these, that it was not needed.
Anyway enough, I hope you got your 5D fixed and all is well.
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What is, my opinion? Or your extremely unintelligent and unhelpful response?
What a load of crap.
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Really what?
Really as in do you really believe that film has no intrinsic quality to offer that is beyond the capability of digital to replicate.
Rob C
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Not sure what to say.
I was stating that a machine, film or otherwise does not have a soul. Not yet anyway, maybe the next Nikon or Leica. (ouch!)
But if pushed as you have asked, I will say that there is nothing that the film stocks we all generally used did that digital capture can't do and do better in some cases.......
Lets leave out the military & science film stocks, or any anorak home made stuff.
Now I will duck under the parapet and hide.
We have gone off topic now anyway.
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Your opinion. If you ever owned a 5DMII you obviously never profiled your camera. I own and use both professionally (and yes still shoot a ton of film) and while great quality is possible with either, the II has the edge in every conceivable way.
The "soul" of an image is in the artist vision and how he/she translates that via his control of the camera, technique and printing. It is not inherent in the technology or materials. You don't buy "soul" by buying a particular camera or by buying film. I repeat-what a total unequivocal load of crap.
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Your opinion. If you ever owned a 5DMII you obviously never profiled your camera. I own and use both professionally (and yes still shoot a ton of film) and while great quality is possible with either, the II has the edge in every conceivable way.
The "soul" of an image is in the artist vision and how he/she translates that via his control of the camera, technique and printing. It is not inherent in the technology or materials. You don't buy "soul" by buying a particular camera or by buying film. I repeat-what a total unequivocal load of crap.
But that won't work, Kirk: you'd need two buckets of crap because you are dealing with two separate questions here: a (loose) Canon and film. I stand behind the film; the Canon guy can take shelter as he wishes. As with so much in life, I know what I know, and others what they think that they know.
Looked at from that perspective, life is balanced, it works, and folks remain serene.
;-)
Rob C
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Remaim hmmm that is an interesting concept. :-\
I would have said the same about film a while back, and I still shoot a ton of b&w 4x5. I would have said that until recently when I hung a b&w show of traditional b&w prints from 4x5, ink prints from scanned 4x5 and stitches from 5DII and 5DI. To get the b&w "brilliance" from the 5D stitched converted files was a huge struggle, but in the end I was able to do it and I am extremely picky. So I will firmly stand behind my comments. "Soul" comes from the hands of the artist-not the camera or the media.
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Remaim hmmm that is an interesting concept. :-\
I would have said the same about film a while back, and I still shoot a ton of b&w 4x5. I would have said that until recently when I hung a b&w show of traditional b&w prints from 4x5, ink prints from scanned 4x5 and stitches from 5DII and 5DI. To get the b&w "brilliance" from the 5D stitched converted files was a huge struggle, but in the end I was able to do it and I am extremely picky. So I will firmly stand behind my comments. "Soul" comes from the hands of the artist-not the camera or the media.
Oh these dyslexic fingers!
Rob C
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Kirk
Okay, for you it works. For me, I still think I like the look of scanned Kodachrome printed black/white more than I do even black/white film scanned and printed.
In the interests of fairness, I have to qualify that. I no longer have any of my old black/white fashion negs to play with - they were either sold off to clients or destroyed all those years ago as I was preparing to move to Spain.
I never did much calendar stuff in black/white other than that series I have in the site which was done in Auchindrain, Scotland, for Barbour, the Irish Thread people, on either HP3 or HP4 35mm precisely because I wanted all the grain and grit that I could get without blowing highlights with funny exposures and developing. I don't have the negs: the scans come via digital camera copies of the only calendar pages I now own, and they are encapsulated in plastic! The Bardot ones and the Royals are all I can remember keeping in neg form. Consequently, it's only via the very few original WSG prints I still have that I can accurately gauge paper/print quality. Sadly, I can't get near it with digital; not because of the files, but because of the paper/pigment inks that I have to use to get to flat copy. These prints only come to life when I put them in those crystal sleeves or have them framed behind glass.
But then, I couldn't get Multigrade plastic papers to look like WSG graded sheets either. The rot (my opinion) started long ago.
Rob C
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Clearair. May I respectfully suggest you re-read my original post and take a look at the URLs in answer to your question about what Canon are doing about this issue in the UK. The US is the same. I do not know about other localities.
I asked the UK Canon approved repairer I used how many 5Ds they had received in order to repair the mirror. They wouldn't give an unequivocal answer since they said they were contracted to Canon but, they said, it was "quite a few".
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Every single camera model in existence will fail at some point. Nothing lasts forever.
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Every single camera model in existence will fail at some point. Nothing lasts forever.
Now I'm really, really depressed.
;-(
Rob C
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Now I'm really, really depressed.
;-(
Rob C
Don't worry about being depressed, that too will not last... 8)