Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Rhossydd on April 02, 2011, 03:51:14 am
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I own PMP 5, plus a couple of i1 Photo packages.
Initially I chose to upgrade my PMP dongle, OK no problems there it all worked as expected.
After some thought I realised it might be convenient to use the Publish package away from base from the laptop without a dongle, so I tried to upgrade one of the i1 spectros too. No luck, "upgrade code used", so it may be the case I'm stuck having to carry the dongle with me off site. I can understand the commercial logic and it's probably better than being tied to a single spectro, but still annoying.
Just give the upgrade process some thought if you've more than one suitable package to upgrade from.
Paul
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In my experience so far I’m afraid this really isn’t a fully finished bit of software yet. I’m getting the feeling that I’ve paid £450 to become a beta tester.
After an afternoon of usage I’ve already found the following bugs or features not working as expected, they include;
Display profiling module.
QA module doesn’t have any specific target values so can’t be used to verify profiles built with other software.
Printer profiling module.
Will only print to default printer in advanced mode.
Won’t read test chart print outs made with scrambled patches.
Error “Invalid measurement: Reference colors do not match measure values. Please check you are scanning row (x) and try again.”
When creating test charts;
Small charts don’t display correctly.
Landscape charts often fail to fill the page correctly, 400 patches on a single portrait format page, but changing to landscape format means it needs two sheets. It gets worse with larger numbers of patches.
Impossible to build small test charts for 4”x6” printers.
Printing test charts from i1Profiler does not work as expected. Screen shows patches at top of screen, but they print out centred on page.
Using profile optimisation delivers significantly worse results with profiler’s smart patch generator. Patches generated from user’s image simply won’t be read with the same error message as when trying to measure scrambled patches.
No apparent way to load reference files from PMP to build new profiles from pre-existing measurements or use existing test charts.
More general issues;
Also on the bug list; Pantone Color Manager fails to work correctly due to fixed window size leading to button overlap in interface.
The help system is also as vague and uninformative as in previous GMB/XRite products.
Paul
All of this is on Windows 7 64bit with Epson 3800 printer
My i1pro spectro is giving excellent, fault free, results with PMP5, so this isn't a hardware issue.
Edit added clarifications in red
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In my experience so far I’m afraid this really isn’t a fully finished bit of software yet. I’m getting the feeling that I’ve paid £450 to become a beta tester.
After an afternoon of usage I’ve already found the following bugs or features not working as expected, they include;
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Apparently no display hardware calibration either.
I agree, it doesn't sound good, especially after the significantly delayed introduction. Make one also wonder how well the Beta testers under NDA were chosen (Mac/PC spread, and quality).
All of this is on Windows 7 64bit
Same here, not feeling too confident about the new profiling option.
Cheers,
Bart
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Apparently no display hardware calibration either.
That might be understandable given differences in manufacturers protocols for hardware controls. I don't know enough about this particular issue to pass critical comment.
I agree, it doesn't sound good, especially after the significantly delayed introduction. Make one also wonder how well the Beta testers under NDA were chosen (Mac/PC spread, and quality).
Indeed.
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Day 2
De-install and re-install from the DVD. Try a different i1 spectro, check the calibration of the Epson 3800 with the colorbase utility, nozzle checks, printed more charts on both gloss and matte paper and allowed them to dry fully.
Still the charts from the 3800 won’t be read with Profiler; “Invalid measurement: Reference colors do not match measure values. Please check you are scanning row (x) and try again.”
Then I printed out some charts from an Epson 1800. They read and profiled OK. The optimisation procedure also worked (not sure what, if any, improvement I can see yet, but the optimised profile has a 3.8% smaller gamut volume than the original according to Gamutvision )
So this is starting to look like the software isn’t able to accept the dark unprofiled output from the 3800. From the thousands of targets sheets I’ve seen in the past few years I know my 3800 is pretty representative of the K3 inkset ‘s output, so this could be a real problem for a lot of users.
If I could find a way of loading reference and measurement files from PMP into profiler I could probably investigate this further, but I can’t find any way to do this yet. Anyone know what needs to be done to accomplish this ? An X-Rite rep told me it was possible.
Paul
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If I could find a way of loading reference and measurement files from PMP into profiler I could probably investigate this further, but I can’t find any way to do this yet. Anyone know what needs to be done to accomplish this ? An X-Rite rep told me it was possible.
Paul
Hello,
Try to drag and drop your file from Measuretool onto the 'Measurement' icon if you're in advanced user mode and have chosen to profile a printer.
Regards,
Yann
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Still the charts from the 3800 won’t be read with Profiler; “Invalid measurement: Reference colors do not match measure values. Please check you are scanning row (x) and try again.”
Then I printed out some charts from an Epson 1800. They read and profiled OK. The optimisation procedure also worked (not sure what, if any, improvement I can see yet, but the optimised profile has a 3.8% smaller gamut volume than the original according to Gamutvision )
So this is starting to look like the software isn’t able to accept the dark unprofiled output from the 3800. From the thousands of targets sheets I’ve seen in the past few years I know my 3800 is pretty representative of the K3 inkset ‘s output, so this could be a real problem for a lot of users.
Hi Paul,
Was this with scrambled patches? Just an idea, maybe the size of the patches is too small (I know you'll get a warning if the patch size is set too low, but still)?
Cheers,
Bart
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Try to drag and drop your file from Measuretool onto the 'Measurement' icon if you're in advanced user mode and have chosen to profile a printer.
Thanks Yann, that works and seems to build profiles OK. So the issues aren't the underlying data, but how it's monitored/validated on entry.
Any idea how to use a Profile test chart data in PMP ? ie can I read a chart built in Profiler with PMP, then pass the data back ?
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Was this with scrambled patches? Just an idea, maybe the size of the patches is too small (I know you'll get a warning if the patch size is set too low, but still)?
No it has been with ordinary chart as well as ones with scrambled patches now I've tried more approaches.
I've stuck to the default patch size. It's annoying enough to measure these charts when they have insufficient top margin to use the paper clamp on the scanning plate without having to try to read narrow rows too.
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No it has been with ordinary chart as well as ones with scrambled patches now I've tried more approaches.
I've stuck to the default patch size. It's annoying enough to measure these charts when they have insufficient top margin to use the paper clamp on the scanning plate without having to try to read narrow rows too.
You can set the test chart margins on the test chart workflow step to make room for the paper clamp, and I was rather thinking of making the patches slightly larger. An inconsistent/unexpected color can also mean that there is an averaging between patches.
Cheers,
Bart
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You can set the test chart margins on the test chart workflow step to make room for the paper clamp,
Not in basic mode.
Given they've developed and supply the scanning table/plate with the i1 you'd have thought that they would ensure that printing to landscape format with a sufficient top margin would have been considered and more widely implemented. I'd hazard a guess that most of the development staff use isis spectros where format issues aren't so important.
Maybe this comes back to the 'who does the beta testing' issue ? It's been done by people who will have influential opinions (and often have high end kit like the isis), rather than users more representative of their mass market.
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Not in basic mode.
Maybe this comes back to the 'who does the beta testing' issue ? It's been done by people who will have influential opinions (and often have high end kit like the isis), rather than users more representative of their mass market.
Well there were testers with i1 Pros and i0’s testing. The question would be, did enough testers on multiple platforms using multiple instruments get into the process, and if they reported bugs, did they get fixed?
When a company puts on a beta, its their responsibility to invite the right amount of testers using various hardware and OS options and gather enough useful information to ensure as few bugs make it into a release as possible.
No apparent way to load reference files from PMP to build new profiles from pre-existing measurements or use existing test charts.
You should be able to drag and drop a CGATs file over the measurement button and load that measured data. I did this quite often.
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Any idea how to use a Profile test chart data in PMP ?
In MeasureTool, Test Chart Generator, Test Chart From Reference. Then setup page size and patch size until you get a match. It could be a lot easier! But its doable. Obviously load the txt, not txf (which is a new format that MT can’t load).
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In MeasureTool, Test Chart Generator................... But its doable.
Not here. My PMP5 licence doesn't include the test patch generator & averaging options in the measure tool :-(
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Day 3
Attempt to get some tech support;
Call X-Rite in the UK ............automated phone message "Support for i1 products is handled by your retailer"
Call my retailer..............."Sorry no one here has used it yet, have you tried X-Rite themselves ?"
Homer fx: <D'oh>
Send in support request via X-Rite's web site.
Call X-Rite again in the UK, don't fall for the automated phone system and side step it by going to sales................."Sorry we only got it last week, you're the first to call about it, we don't really know much about it yet, can you send us an email with your problems"
Done, but no reply, not even a 'we'll look into it'
Oh the joys of being an early adopter. Curious they everyone denies any knowledge of this product in the UK despite the fact an X-Rite employee was on the retailer's stand at the big "Focus on Imaging" exhibition in the UK last month demonstrating the software!
Finally a reply from X-Rite's European support centre asking if I would like a remote support session.............................sent out 22mins before they close for business.
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has anyone received the software, successfully completed the upgrade process from MonacoPROFILER, and is up and working?
Tyler
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has anyone received the software, successfully completed the upgrade process from MonacoPROFILER, and is up and working?
You need to run PROFILER, get info to access the serial number of the green dongle (about screen), then call X-Rite for an activation code. For the purple PMP profiles, the upgrade can be done through the software.
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yeah, did that, good luck with that.
Still interested in anyone's actual experience at this point.
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Still interested in anyone's actual experience at this point.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/x_rite_i1profiler_review.shtml
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ok I'll rephrase slightly-
has any purchaser received the software as it's now shipping, successfully completed the upgrade process from MonacoPROFILER, and is up and working?
I'm talking the upgrade process through to a working install, not how good the profiling may or may not be.
Tyler
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has anyone received the software, successfully completed the upgrade process from MonacoPROFILER, and is up and working?
As a tester I upgraded two copies of PROFILER. I got the new dongles in the mail a few days after I phoned in the info. You keep your old dongles and can continue to use them. [snicker] Of course, as PPC apps, MP and PMP won't work in the upcoming Mac OS 10.7. ColorPort is Universal however and I'd encourage those that do lots of profiling to consider measuring in CP while generating profiles in i1P for enhanced productivity (then again, maybe that's not that many people that would need that level of productivity!). Those with legacy devices (DTP70s, Pulse, DTP41, Lino, etc) will *have* to measure with ColorPort since i1P only support EyeOne devices. You can drag and drop measurement files from CP into i1P for quick profile generation - very easy.
PMP dongle upgrades are super fast because there's no dongle to ship!
But Tyler, you're probably wondering how quickly they are processing upgrades this very week and I'm not sure about that.
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at this point I'm wondering about a wider variety of issues more uncomfortable than that at this point, but don't find it productive right now to join in with more bashing. I'd prefer the problems are quickly resolved and wish I could help move that along. Many of us really need this, the options are evaporating rapidly.
I'm going to assume because of the lack of response that in fact no purchaser of the retail released software has successfully upgraded from Monaco, installed, and is up and working. At least on this list. For me this is actually helpful to know.
I received the software last Monday...
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I'm going to assume because of the lack of response that in fact no purchaser of the retail released software has successfully upgraded from Monaco, installed, and is up and working. At least on this list. For me this is actually helpful to know.
I received the software last Monday...
I did without any problem. I haven't fully tested yet, but everything seems to be functional.
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were you sent an actual dongle? And If so, in the actual package or resulting from a phone call?
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Tyler,
I'll let you know about the key tomorrow, I have to call about the upgrade for something so I'll ask. The upgrade page on the website specifically says you will get a new key for the new software and your Profiler Gold or Platinum key will still work with that software.
I'm a bit concerned about Andrew's comments regarding black generation in CMYK profiles, as noted in his review this is something that is absolutely needed, especially if you have something like a CMY K, lk, lllk (really extra light black) workflow which would allow a nice heavy black generation to be used in all areas. It is sounding like Colorport and Profiler will stay in my toolbox for as long as they will function, yes I'm one of those odd people who still like the Pulse hardware.
Andrew,
I know you are a Mac user, but did you happen to check any of your UI issues on a Windows 7 system? Just wondering if it is a problem for both OS's or just OSX. If you tested on Windows, was it the 32 bit or 64 bit flavor?
Greg
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I know you are a Mac user, but did you happen to check any of your UI issues on a Windows 7 system?
Sorry, no.
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my issue with regard to the upgrade from Monaco Platinum has been resolved with the help of my dealer, Chromix (always great), and some good people at Xrite.
It was a simple error, and resolved without problem once given some attention. Thanks to all.
Tyler