Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: henrikfoto on March 20, 2011, 05:22:01 pm
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Does anyone of you know of any tests that compare the af of Phase 645df and Hasselblad?
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Hi Henrik,
Its probably hard to quantify unless you have both bodies in hand and do a quick test.
For Hasselblad I will say that...
- Each H4D system has a custom AF calibration (Mechanical and electronic) in the factory to ensure the AF system is working to the finest tolerance possible. If you look in the info menu of any H4D you will see an item called "Calibration ID"
- We correct the AF position depending on your aperture. (Aperture based focus shift correction)
- The lenses can be switched from AF to MF instantly without the need for a mechanical switch
- All lenses have internal AF motors. We do not rely on a weaker mechanical connection from body to lens.
- The AF drive can be operated remotely from our software Phocus for finite control on tethered shooting
- Focus confirmation is giving in the viewfinder in manual mode as well.
- True Focus! Instead of multiple point AF we use a gyro in the base of the camera to detect camera movement at the focus / recompose stage to correct the distance change.
So I would encourage you to think about AF features as well as finite speed. Which in the MF world, I think is hard to beat with Hasselblad.
David
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Does anyone of you know of any tests that compare the af of Phase 645df and Hasselblad?
Compare in what way? Speed? Accuracy? What are you shooting?
I know the 645df works fine for landscape and portrait work, no problems at all. I like the way the lenses have a ring which pops in/out to disable the autofocus, easy to autofocus on one area, then pop the ring without turning the focus and do a quick focus bracket. I also like how I can setup other soft buttons to focus, rather than the shutter release (I think both cameras have that feature). My only hasslelblad experience was with the H1, so too long ago to be meaningful, other than I found it worked fine as well for what I do, and it has probably improved since then.
Your shooting demands may be different so it may help to know what your needs are.
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I just try to find out what system has the best af.
I heard someone mention that the Phase 645df has a problem with a shutter that is lagging and makes much vibrations. Is that correct or is it all addressed in the new df version?
I also wonder if the af itself makes enough vibrations to desturb the image? I tried it a few minutes and it seemed to be fast but a bit "snappy". I am not sure if I am correct?
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I've tried both. With the new df body + the new LS lenses i'd say the phase one is faster.
Advantage with phase one body and lenses is that you can get both 1/1600s flash sync and 1/4000 shutter time. The hassy is limited to 1/800 either way.
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I heard someone mention that the Phase 645df has a problem with a shutter that is lagging and makes much vibrations. Is that correct or is it all addressed in the new df version?
That's a hold over from previous camera models...the DF model has been substantially improved in this regard. I don't know of any side by side tests though...
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Agree the shutter lag from previous models are simply not detectable anymore. Very much improved and even shooting motion it's on the money now. I could not say that with previous models i would actually have to time the action. No more and the AF is very fast.
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Wow if the shutter lag is much improved then it really must have stunk before! I just tested a new 645 DF body... yeah the mirror goes up right away but the shot actually isn't taken for a while after that and the worst part is you can't see while you wait for it to click off. Since I'm not familiar with the camera there might be some kind of setting that allows you to set the delay to wait out mirror vibration or something but I'm not planning on figuring it out. I liked the aptus 12 but not the mamiya 645. If you shot an H body or the Hy6 you'd not want to make a move to the 645 DF at least IMHO. I do think Phase's C1 software is the better software platform though and if you shot tethered a lot, something to consider in your decision making.
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yes I moved to Hass from Mamiya, you could physically time the shutter lag on their previous camera
and their camera feels like toy instead of a pro gear
but the Hass program is really bad
I regret not trying it before buying it
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yes I moved to Hass from Mamiya, you could physically time the shutter lag on their previous camera
and their camera feels like toy instead of a pro gear
but the Hass program is really bad
I regret not trying it before buying it
Where are you based Donald? Maybe you just need someone to show you the ropes?
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Wow if the shutter lag is much improved then it really must have stunk before! I just tested a new 645 DF body... yeah the mirror goes up right away but the shot actually isn't taken for a while after that and the worst part is you can't see while you wait for it to click off. Since I'm not familiar with the camera there might be some kind of setting that allows you to set the delay to wait out mirror vibration or something but I'm not planning on figuring it out. I liked the aptus 12 but not the mamiya 645. If you shot an H body or the Hy6 you'd not want to make a move to the 645 DF at least IMHO. I do think Phase's C1 software is the better software platform though and if you shot tethered a lot, something to consider in your decision making.
It sucked. I shot a golf tourney and had to shoot at the top of the swing to get ball contact. That was bad. The DF just for comparison later on when i shot the same tourney a year later it was about 2 ft from the ball so yes big improvement but not Nikon/Canon fast either and like Hassy your moving a big mirror around. I tried Hassy a couple time they seem on par these days with each other but never did anything scientific . Certainly we can say improved a great deal the new body coming will most likely will get even better. We simply do not need to base camera bodies anymore on film. So the industry will change in this regard at some point. We do not even need a shutter curtain anymore if you think about it.
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is there any rumors about the time the new Phase one camerabody will be ready?
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I heard that the first Hasselblad H4d200ms just was delivered to a New York photographer.
Can anybody from Hasselblad tell us what they expect from this camera?
Should be the highest resolution back so far?
Can you tell why it makes 6 shots and not 4 or 16 like ms backs use to?
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I heard that the first Hasselblad H4d200ms just was delivered to a New York photographer.
Can anybody from Hasselblad tell us what they expect from this camera?
Should be the highest resolution back so far?
Can you tell why it makes 6 shots and not 4 or 16 like ms backs use to?
Hey Henrik,
Yes we have delivered some for testing in the field.
Indeed it should be the highest resolution. Based on my experience working with it, I have been very pleased with the result from the camera. Picking out more detail than a standard 4 shot in some cases, on our test subject. It achieves what an older 16 shot back would do in 6 shots. More maths!
We are writing some technical information on the 6 shot process.
David
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Hi David!
Can you tell us something more about the 200ms?
From what you are writing the 200 ms does not always produse a better image than the 50 ms?
Is that correct?
Does it produse a more detailed, crispier and clearer image or just a larger image with similar quality?
I would be very happy to hear some more about this back.
And do you know when it will start shipping?
Henrik
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Hi David!
Can you tell us something more about the 200ms?
From what you are writing the 200 ms does not always produse a better image than the 50 ms?
Is that correct?
Does it produse a more detailed, crispier and clearer image or just a larger file with similar quality?
I would be very happy to hear some more about this back.
And do you know when it will start shipping?
Henrik
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Wow if the shutter lag is much improved then it really must have stunk before! I just tested a new 645 DF body... yeah the mirror goes up right away but the shot actually isn't taken for a while after that and the worst part is you can't see while you wait for it to click off. Since I'm not familiar with the camera there might be some kind of setting that allows you to set the delay to wait out mirror vibration or something but I'm not planning on figuring it out. I liked the aptus 12 but not the mamiya 645. If you shot an H body or the Hy6 you'd not want to make a move to the 645 DF at least IMHO. I do think Phase's C1 software is the better software platform though and if you shot tethered a lot, something to consider in your decision making.
Eric,
The 645DF is pretty fast. The lag you might have seen could be due to the configuration on the P+ back. On my P45+ there are two options for shutter lag. On "Capture Setup" menu, on "Shutter" option there are two selections: Long latency and Short latency. Selecting "Short latency" the shutter lag is much shorter and the shutter fires right after the mirror is up. Sure, it's not D3s territory but it's comparable to pretty much any other DLSR out there. If the back is configured to Long latency there is a really noticeably long time between mirror up and the back firing.
Rafa
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you can control the shutter lag in the menu in the H cameras.
from 0ms to 250ms. and it works.
jumped to the hassy from a mamiya and didn't look back
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Where are you based Donald? Maybe you just need someone to show you the ropes?
Hong Kong
I asked Hasselblad here for help
but the thing is that you need to convert all 3FR to FFF before you can work on it
just one extra step you must do
and the phocus is although powerful, but a bit difficult to use as well
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you can control the shutter lag in the menu in the H cameras.
from 0ms to 250ms. and it works.
jumped to the hassy from a mamiya and didn't look back
yes that is one thing I love, not sure if it does help but I have it on 250ms to reduce vibration
one good thing about the Hasselblad is that it is a better package altogether
and the built quality is far better, some complain about the 1/800 sec mas shutter speed but I havent really ran into a problem so far
if you must there is ND filter to cut down some light but most of the time 1/800 sec is fast enough at f2.8 to f4 during the day(the only lens faster than f2.8 is the 100mm f2.2), dont forget about ISO 50
one thing though I havnt found a reasonable priced flash trigger that claims a flash sync faster than 1/250 sec, anyone with a suggestion?
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250ms is way too much in virtually every case. I have set it to 50ms and would not take it above 100ms. The H3/H4 seems to have less slap than the H1/H2/H2F. Good triggers that do above 1/250th that I use are: Pocketwizard & Skyport. Not cheap but I prefer reliable above cheap, in the end reliable is always cheapest, IMO.