Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: simplify on January 06, 2011, 07:07:22 pm
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Hello everyone,
I have just used SquareSpace to build a new website (http://johnpauljespersen.squarespace.com), and it is an amazing and easy to use tool. I checked out FolioLink and Livebooks, but didn't want to fork over the money. Squarespace is only 20 bucks a month for the plan I am on, and I was able to import my blogs over from different websites seamlessly into my new website with squarespace.
Tell me what you all think about my new site, and I encourage you to give squarespace a try, it seems very revolutionary to me, and very cool.
http://johnpauljespersen.squarespace.com (http://johnpauljespersen.squarespace.com)
P.S. Almost all of the images on my site are shot with a PhaseOne P45+ and Hasselblad V bodies.
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Mmmmm..... Yet another revolutionary CMS service. I find that I have the same problem with all content management system and that is lack of flexibility and constraints upon creativity. They all seem wonderful to begin with but after a few months you start to get bored with it and would like to perhaps change this or that or alter something else but the template design system hems you in. I used to do things this way then gradually taught myself the basics of HTML and with the help of MS Expression Web I now build my own from scratch, indeed I now build simple sites for other people so far from costing me it has become an earner.
I'm no IT expert by any means so if I can do it then plenty of others surely can and let's not forget that CMS can be as complex as HTML. I use Wordpress to embed news blogs in sites but I cannot get my head around building a multi page site with the thing and the support forum 'community' would appear to be off their heads on herbal tobacco half the time.
Edit. Just been back to have another look at the site and as commendable as the images are, and I do like the clean cut style which draws attention to the purity and minimalistic approach to the framing of the subject, I see that some of them disappear off the bottom of the page and all the ones I checked were around the 190kb file size which is fine if you have good broadband connectivity, which alas we don't so the pictures can take time to load, not a long time, but enough for fidgeting to set in whilst waiting. I know that the larger the file size the better the picture should appear but the web is the very worst place to display photos anyway due to the complete lack of control over viewing conditions. I test my sites over 5 different browsers, the 2 major operating systems and 3 different screens and the variation on how each combination interprets and displays identical code is really rather alarming, and that's before we consider how the viewer might have their own screen set up (or not) and what sort of device it is.
One other point, the font size on your biography is very small and all but unreadable on my rather standard 17 inch screen.
Hope I've not come across as too miserable a git.
Justin.
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Hope I've not come across as too miserable a git.
There's some pretty stiff competition for the post of "resident miserable git" on this site!
Jeremy
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There's some pretty stiff competition for the post of "resident miserable git" on this site!
Jeremy
I'm working on it. :D
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Jeanpaul to start with I like your images and the graphic design of your site is clean and stylish.
Justin has pointed out some basic problems with your sit.
Most sites are deigned to fit into 1024x768 screen without scrolling. Your site falls down in this respect but not in a major way. You have to scroll to the see the copyright when I set Firefox to 1024x768 on my Mac and yes images disappear off the bottom of the screen.
The fonts are small on the CV page but a command + fixes that up, no biggie.
What made me comment was a more disturbing feature of your site. When I clicked on your name at the top of the splash page it took me to a totally different navigation system. This is an image of building and 4 links underneath. Click on a link and it brings up a duplicate slide show to the one in the splash page only this time in Autoviewer. The slide show works well and resizes images so they fit on the page.
I have a few problems with this:
Why are there two different slide show/gallery methods showing the same images?
Why is the no obvious link to the Autoview slide shows on the splash page?
How do you get back to the main splash page from the Autoview page?
The Home button at the top of the Autoview slide shows takes you back to the start of the Autoview alternative splash page not the main splash page that you would expect to see. In the main navigation, Home takes you back to the main splash page.
These are small problems that should be able to be fixed without too much effort. My main problem however revolves around how expandable your design is. If you are just going to have four galleries then there is no problem but if you are going to have a larger number of galleries I would be thinking about what type of navigation you will be having.
I have had four major redesigns of my web site over the years and I'm now thinking about my fifth, so I'm well aware of the problems involved in designing a site.
As I said you have the basis of a very cool site. You just have to get the basics right.
Good luck!
Cheers,
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Thanks for all the advice guys, exactly what I wanted. I will be fixing the issues asap, for some reason the banner is linking to my old site. And I will definitely change the size of the vertical images.
All in all I am pretty proud of the design considering I did it all in less than two hours.
Keep the advice coming if you see anything else funky,
Thanks again,
JP
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All in all I am pretty proud of the design considering I did it all in less than two hours.
And therein lies another problem with CMS, yes it may look cool and clean etc but so do any one of a million other sites built with similar fast loading templates, at the end of the day they all look the same.
Johnpaul, I'm not knocking your excellent photography at all, just suggesting that you stand back and ask yourself why should anybody remember your site above all others? Apart from the quality of the work it is utterly indistinctive from thousands of similar websites. Will your ability with a camera drag the site up out of the morass or will your work be dragged down by the monotony of yet more clean white pages with a dinky little slideshow thingy along the top? No doubt you spend considerable time ensuring that your photography is distinctive and is of your individual style; what does the website say about you?
BTW, just one small and immediate improvement might be the addition of a very thin black border around the images, it will help stop them bleeding into the background.
Justin.
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I would have to disagree with you justin.
I hate sites that are overdone and fancy. I click through hundreds of artists sites every month, and all I want to see is their work in a easy to navigate simplified manner. I hate when there are pop down menus and other things that make it difficult to find what I want to see on their site. I love sites that have a list of portfolios on the first page and all you have to do is start clicking the portfolio titles to see the work, which is all I want to see. I could care less how an artists website looks, as long as I can see their work as soon as possible without having to do too many clicks. Its all about the work to me. I am not going to fall in love with somebodies work because their website impresses me.
Ps, the dinky little slide show thingy is my old site, and now clicking at the top will not take you there.
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Justin, I just looked at your site. I don't think I can take any advice from you, sorry.
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Meeow!
Whatever JP, but I'd still ditch the white background, it competes far too much for the eyes attention. Oh, and I hate pop ups as well for exactly the same reasons as you.
Something to think over though, here is one person who is fed up with the same old website formula, if there is one that mentions it how many are there that think it? And just because you approach websites in a specific way does not mean to say everybody does. You may be right though, your site could well tick all the boxes for your target audience, I hope it does, and that is all that matters at the end of the day. On the other hand.....
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I did a 10 week, 3 hour per night web design course for photographers. There was about a dozen of us in the course. It was a CSS course, building a site from scratch.
At the end of the course half had dropped out and I was the only one who put up a couple of pages. This was after I had two different versions of my site up already using tables and then frames.
Most photographer just want their site up and running. Communities like Joomla and WordPress just make the process easier. The success of a template depends more on the designer than the code behind the pages.
Every good web site will have some sort of template behind it so that navigation will be consistent and predictable.
Anyway Jeanpaul it's good to see that the problem was just a lousy link.
My only gripe now is that I'm not a click, click click… person. At the minimum I'd prefer to use arrow keys to view a gallery. Preferably I just want to hit the play button or even better still have the slide show play automatically when you open the page.
Cheers,
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True, all sites do depend on templates to a certain degree and the first part of any site that I create is the Menu template and then hang everything off that. I am though totally self taught with trial and error, a few books, and lurking around web designer forums being my main resources. Not only is being self taught considered a cardinal sin amongst many web designers but I use tables to structure a page rather than CSS. I have had the argument many a time that such a method is so yesterday but it's quick and it works and I don't fall under the prescriptive and somewhat limiting diktats of W3C.
My own site is a fairly early one and needs completely turning on its head, people come to it to look at the events page not because they are wanting a photographer, that is done by word of mouth around these parts and a website is completely out of the loop for generating leads.
Anyway, here is one that I did last year and am presently updating, It has a style which I believe matches the cause and I've tried to include as many images as I can- www.tipprally.com (http://www.tipprally.com) There aren't many like it, which some may consider a good thing!
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good advice tom, i don't usually like auto playing slide shows, but it is an option I can easily select for my picture galleries, maybe I will try it out.
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I've just purchased a copy of Capture photography magazine to read while I got my lunch (great Indian thali). In it was a list of inspirational photographers web sites.
I looked up the first twenty sites and I can tell you that only four had user friendly portfolios. How many clicks does it take to be turned off a site. Unless you really want to be at a site I can tell you it isn't many. One flash site didn't work at all and my computer is only four months old.
A slide show that preloads images just makes the viewing experience much more enjoyable. Somehow I think that vanity plays a part. The photographer thinks, with all that dross out there, someone entering my site will linger lovingly over each image.
Cheers,
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I like it...looks pretty good to me...looks like a regular custom designed site...I am sure this is HTML5 and can be viewed on an apple device with no flash right?
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I like it...looks pretty good to me...looks like a regular custom designed site...I am sure this is HTML5 and can be viewed on an apple device with no flash right?
While Flash should die, iPhones and iPads are not (yet) killing it. I just checked my site's stats, and only 2% of users are from those platforms.
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Looks fine on my iPad, though same height problems.
I've been looking at different solutions for my next site redesign. One option is Joomla and I took a look at their Community Photography Showcase here:
http://community.joomla.org/showcase/sites/arts/photography.html
You just have to look through the first half dozen sites to understand what works and what doesn't.
Cheers,
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One of the main reasons for the re-design was to ditch the flash, and have a site that looks good on iphone and ipad. Mainly for my parents. Their iphone's and ipads are pretty much the only way they browse the web.
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Before creating any website we should be deciding upon its purpose and then designing it from there. We therefore need to ask some questions along the following lines-
- Who is the target audience?
- What information do I wish to convey?
- What is the immediate impression I want to present?
- Is the site to be predominately active in generating a response or passive in simply supplying data/images?
- What mood is to be suggested by the colour scheme?
- Which age group are you aiming to cater for mostly?
- Is the site to be data rich or image rich?
And so on.
Very few people actually stop to ask these sort of questions thinking that a website is just a website rather than a reflection upon their approach to the matter in hand. I have had numerous approaches from potential customers who want a website, fine I say, what do you want to put on it? And that point they beat a hasty retreat. Website content does not magically materialise from the ether, it needs thinking about.
Now JP, it seems that your overriding concern is that your mom and dad can see it on their Igadgets, in which case the site probably works extremely well but you must pardon the rest of the world if they appear to be less than impressed at times.
Just trying to help.
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Now JP, it seems that your overriding concern is that your mom and dad can see it on their Igadgets, in which case the site probably works extremely well but you must pardon the rest of the world if they appear to be less than impressed at times.
By "rest of the world" you certainly mean "me."
His site is quite good and displays the (very good) images nicely.
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By "rest of the world" you certainly mean "me."
His site is quite good and displays the (very good) images nicely.
That was not my point, there are 1,000,001 other sites that do it just as well, this one is no different although I still find the large areas of white distracting and the images are not as distinct from the background as they could be. But this depends a lot upon your browser/screen/OS combination.
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Looks fine on my iPad, though same height problems.
I've been looking at different solutions for my next site redesign. One option is Joomla and I took a look at their Community Photography Showcase here:
http://community.joomla.org/showcase/sites/arts/photography.html
You just have to look through the first half dozen sites to understand what works and what doesn't.
Cheers,
The trouble with this sort of beauty parade is we are not in a position to know the context in which the site is being viewed. I am not, and never have been, an excited bride to be so how can I judge whether the wedding photo site actually works or not? The one shown in this selection does not strike me as being amongst the clearest or best out there but if the creator thinks it's grand then we cannot argue, indeed any sort of adverse or critical comment is discouraged by the ethos that emanates from the content of the Joomla community home page.
It there is one common problem to all these sites it is they seem shy of actually stating where they are based. I could get very excited about a fellows work and then find that they operate on a different continent so feel a little annoyed that I've wasted time and effort with their site, to my mind that is a fail. Perhaps they are of the mind that because it is a 'global' community their work knows no borders, maybe, but I ain't paying travel expenses from South Africa. True, it is good to see work from around the world but if I was a potential client simply seeking a good level of competence then my minutes were unproductively employed.
Anyway, my original argument still applies and that is lack of distinction or individuality. There is a satirical magazine in the UK called Private Eye and in the run up to Christmas they ran a series of pictures showing the covers of novels published last year. In each picture there was a tall dark stranger in raincoat walking away from the viewer, the background or setting may have been different but the picture was basically the same in all of them which was probably about a dozen, and I get the very same feeling of deja vu when looking at the list of sites on the Joomla community page.
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Anyway, here is one that I did last year and am presently updating, It has a style which I believe matches the cause and I've tried to include as many images as I can- www.tipprally.com (http://www.tipprally.com) There aren't many like it, which some may consider a good thing!
There aren't many sites like that now, but they were everywhere 15 years ago.
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Just a thought…
Easy to use
Flexible
W3C compliant
Requires little training
Not reliant on a web administrator
Inexpensive
Community help
Large developer base
Who would want to use these systems?
Cheers,
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Just a thought…
Easy to use
Flexible
W3C compliant
Requires little training
Not reliant on a web administrator
Inexpensive
Community help
Large developer base
Who would want to use these systems?
Cheers,
Well not me for a start Tom.
I seriously looked at developing my CMS abilities last year mainly because I was asked about a site where the customer could do their own regular updates and to be honest I found Wordpress simply confusing and Drupal I couldn't get to install. The 'help' communities were simply not that helpful ( I wasn't the only one having installation problems with Drupal) and I got bored trawling through the various templates in WP. It would be easier, I decided, to stick to an HTML editor. I do have WP embedded in a couple of sites for news blogs and I use Coppermine for galleries but at the end of the day I really can not see them being as anywhere near flexible as a clean sheet of paper and a smattering of HTML. I use MS Expression Web and there is a very knowledgeable if at times a little aloof help forum and because the software is not open source MS have a vested interest in getting it right, not that they always do of course.
The other problem with CMS is that people rush into doing their own sites then lose interest or get busy elsewhere. You said yourself that few finished your course and that is a situation that is repeated throughout my (our?) level of the web site building world. If it is a business then even with CMS they will still need to appoint someone to keep it up to date, a web administrator in fact.
There is also an argument that W3C are too darn prescriptive, socialist even, and they see only the development of code and not the web itself. Just whose web is it anyway?
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There aren't many sites like that now, but they were everywhere 15 years ago.
Excellent!! It's worked!
Have you noticed what the site is all about?
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Excellent!! It's worked!
Have you noticed what the site is all about?
No, I didn't get that far.
For a CMS, I'm a fan of indexhibit (http://www.indexhibit.org/participants/). Fully customisable with basic CSS knowledge. Helpful forum. Geared towards artists.
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No, I didn't get that far.
For a CMS, I'm a fan of indexhibit (http://www.indexhibit.org/participants/). Fully customisable with basic CSS knowledge. Helpful forum. Geared towards artists.
Errr.... How far did you get? It's splashed all the way across the home page.
Not heard of Indexhibit, I'll take a look.
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Well I took a look as promised and entered a dozen or so sites and my overall impression was of having various bits of art shoved under my nose with very little effort to explain who, where, what and why. Trawl through yourself Eliot and tell me that as a collection of websites they are shining examples of how to communicate.
The collection highlights the very problem with CMS that I mentioned before, people rush into it thinking the web is their oyster then find that they don't really understand it after all, are not really as interested as they thought, it's perhaps harder work than they imagined and so on. I'm sure there are some excellent sites there but to me they all looked a bit unfinished. Not the fault of the software itself I know, but perhaps a little too much is promised by its proponents.
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Here's a good example of Indexhibit in action:
Fraction Magazine (http://www.fractionmagazine.com/)
Shoving art under peoples' noses is what Indexhibit does best.
For me, Livebooks is too flashy, Wordpress is too complicated.
Doing all updates manually in Dreamweaver is too tedious.
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Interestingly, you mention LiveBooks being too flashy. Just previously I visited the liveBooks website using my iPad. I went to the Client Examples page and visited two sites that I had seen previously on my Mac (both Flash). Both sites opened with mobile versions of the sites. It seems that they have been doing their homework.
I still like the LiveBooks gestalt. Everything happens in the one rectangle, it's nice and clean and simple.
What I am looking for is a non Flash method of doing the same thing. Joomla seems to have some promise in this which is why I pointed out the Joomla examples previously.
Anyway a bit more research is in order. If anyone knows a good Joomla gallery that gives slideshows, and other methods of navigation (keystrokes, thumbnails etc) I would like know about it.
Cheers,
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Here's a good example of Indexhibit in action:
Fraction Magazine (http://www.fractionmagazine.com/)
Shoving art under peoples' noses is what Indexhibit does best.
For me, Livebooks is too flashy, Wordpress is too complicated.
Doing all updates manually in Dreamweaver is too tedious.
Agreed, art can often work well if it is unexpected, not sure whether this translates well to the web though where the viewer may be seeking the unexpected. There is some nice and imaginative work amongst the Indexhibit sites and as a catalogue of such enterprise it's could be quite good but as stand alone sites I'm not so sure.
Had a look at Livebooks and have to agree once more, as soon as I see the flash loading symbol I'm off elsewhere. I have done two sites which the customer wanted converted from flash to HTML.
Yep, Wordpress is not the all round hippy huggy panacea that its fans would have us believe. I wanted to put two distinct blogs on the same site and asked how this could be done on the help forum. Not one reply, so either it couldn't be done or nobody knew or because it wasn't an esoteric question about the use of an inverted jellyfish tag or somesuch nobody really cared.
I've never used Dreamweaver, only MS Expression Web which is available at a fraction of the cost and once you get the hang of a few principles it is not that slow or difficult. I use tables rather than full on CSS and it really can be quick and easy if you are familiar with using MS Excel and Word, which is why a lot of web designers hate them, tables let cowboys like me undermine the authority of the web priesthood, just like CMS! Whilst on the subject of WP v. HTML I had a site where results in tabular form were required to be put up after each race fixture. There was no sensible way of doing it in WP but with an HTML site I just save the Excel files as web pages, upload to the server and pop a link on to the appropriate page. Five minutes work at the most.
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To the original poster. That you created the site in 2 hours is impressive, but I don't think it shows your work (which I like a lot) in the best light. Having to navigate the thumbnails with the mouse is distracting. As is the typography of the menu. Your logo looks good.
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Thanks for the advice Elliot.
Justin, your sites look prehistoric and if I ever went to a business site that looked like that I would immediately write them off. It looks like they were designed in 1994 and never updated. For someone with such a strong opinion on webdesign.. not impressive at all.
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Thanks for the advice Elliot.
Justin, your sites look prehistoric and if I ever went to a business site that looked like that I would immediately write them off. It looks like they were designed in 1994 and never updated. For someone with such a strong opinion on webdesign.. not impressive at all.
Funny thing is though that they work.
Tippspeedway (http://www.tipperarymotorspeedway.ie) 6,000 true visitors in first 3 months (not to be confused with hits)
The tipprally.com (http://www.tipprally.com) site is actually meant to invoke past times, so once again you prove it works, thank you. Oh, and I've just been asked to do another one similar to it.
cattlelattin (http://www.cattlelattin.com) Very simple and basic, and deliberately so but by heck he sells his cattle a lot quicker now that he has it. (not my photos of cattle on it BTW)
And perhaps the most successful site in Ireland - donedeal (http://www.donedeal.ie) Not mine I hasten to add, just wish it was. No bells, no whistles, no stars or feedbacks or other gadgetry just honest 'postcard in the window' selling. Ebay gets nowhere close over here.
If you really think that this constant white sterility we see in websites from Flickr to Facebook via just about half the sites that come on stream is little more than lazy design based on fashion rather than function then perhaps you should think again. No, actually, there may be a point in it. LCD screens in my experience tend to be far brighter than CRT's and so can completely wash out any subtleties in shading and colour, so we are left with the lowest common denominator. White, or maybe black. Good old technology, taking us back to the monochrome days eh!
If your site impresses those who you wish to impress then it's working and I'm happy for you. Mine are actually out there doing a job instead.
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If you really think that this constant white sterility we see in websites from Flickr to Facebook via just about half the sites that come on stream is little more than lazy design based on fashion rather than function then perhaps you should think again. No, actually, there may be a point in it. LCD screens in my experience tend to be far brighter than CRT's and so can completely wash out any subtleties in shading and colour, so we are left with the lowest common denominator. White, or maybe black. Good old technology, taking us back to the monochrome days eh!
Guess you don't know who Edward Tufte is, huh?
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Doubtless there are all sorts of people I should know but life is awfully short.
I'll look him up.
Cheers.
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Guess you don't know who Edward Tufte is, huh?
;D
I'd like to hire Tufte to redesign my website!
Eric
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;D
I'd like to hire Tufte to redesign my website!
Eric
Dunno about that - www.edwardtufte.com (http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/index). It's a bit err... all over the place.
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Dunno about that - www.edwardtufte.com (http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/index). It's a bit err... all over the place.
I haven't checked it out yet, but I bet it's pretty wild, and NOT your usual run-of-the-mill website.
Eric
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Dunno about that - www.edwardtufte.com (http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/index). It's a bit err... all over the place.
Yeah, well ... tell yourself whatever you want ... but if you want to understand where a lot of the design ethos you were criticizing comes from, you better read Tufte.
As a designer myself of product interfaces involving complex visualizations that are usually quite data-rich, I find him to be one of my most important influences.
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Yeah, well ... tell yourself whatever you want ... but if you want to understand where a lot of the design ethos you were criticizing comes from, you better read Tufte.
As a designer myself of product interfaces involving complex visualizations that are usually quite data-rich, I find him to be one of my most important influences.
I note he doesn't purport to design for the web though as that, as I have frequently seen mentioned, is a different ball game to print. The closest he comes is to advise on Power Point where he is less than enthusiastic about the use of templates.
But look at the site Jeremy and tell me it is clear, disciplined and presents information in a non confusing way. The menu hardly advertises its presence or function and is not aligned or delineated in any way with the rest of the content, it looks totally ad hoc to be honest. I also had to go over the page several times before I figured out what he was all about, and even now I'm not that certain. Who is he, what does he do, what is he saying/selling? It took a while for the answers to crystallise ensuring that any idea that I had of the fellow being a top communications guru swiftly evaporated as my eye and mind was dragged helter skelter from sculpture to dogs to books to diagrams etc with no clear road map in between.
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I haven't checked it out yet, but I bet it's pretty wild, and NOT your usual run-of-the-mill website.
Eric
True, its worse.
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True, its worse.
... and Picasso's work is messy ... get a clue!
Tufte is GOD in the world of visual communication
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Tufte is GOD in the world of visual communication
That's the impression I have had, seeing a couple of his books.
Eric
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... and Picasso's work is messy ... get a clue!
Tufte is GOD in the world of visual communication
All the more reason to question the beliefs he espouses.
I note that his co creator of the site 'Eye Architecture' has this on their home page -
We work with our clients to create innovative, user-centered navigation and organizational strategies for web sites and applications.
And they use the term 'Navigational strategy' elsewhere on the site.
Now please, could you show me on Mr Tuftes site where there is the faintest evidence of any of this waffle being unambiguously deployed rather than simply resorting to assurances of his holiness.
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In my life, there is a pantheon of super-heroes ... Topping the sports heroes list are Mark Messier and Mariano Rivera. Topping the intellectual list are Richard Feynman and Edward Tufte.
You just aren't gonna get far trying to bash Tufte ... with me or 99.99999% of people who have a clue who he is ...
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That's the impression I have had, seeing a couple of his books.
Eric
His live seminars are unbelievable ... and he does them about 50 times a year.
"Envisioning Information" and "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" are right on my shelf next to me.
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In my life, there is a pantheon of super-heroes ... Topping the sports heroes list are Mark Messier and Mariano Rivera. Topping the intellectual list are Richard Feynman and Edward Tufte.
You just aren't gonna get far trying to bash Tufte ... with me or 99.99999% of people who have a clue who he is ...
Sigh, fine, all I am asking is for you to justify the design of his website. You appear reluctant to do so. Please, I want to understand why people think the sun shines whenever he bends over.
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Please, I want to understand why people think the sun shines whenever he bends over.
I'm not gonna start debating the merits (or lack thereof) of Tufte's website.
Ask around ... if you know anyone who knows anything about design they will know of Tufte.
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I'm not gonna start debating the merits (or lack thereof) of Tufte's website.
A wise decision.
Ask around ... if you know anyone who knows anything about design they will know of Tufte.
Design of what? Graphic design for print he may indeed be the supreme lord of the universe (although I am by no means gobsmacked) but he has not yet grasped the notion that their is a big difference between print and web. They are not the same animal at all but it is true that he doesn't claim to be a guru on web design, I can discern that much at least from his site.
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but he has not yet grasped the notion that their is a big difference between print and web.
Hurray for Tipperarry is an awesome site and Edward Tufte can't teach you anything.
I get it.
(I'm just laughing my ass off ...)
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Hurray for Tipperarry is an awesome site and Edward Tufte can't teach you anything.
I get it.
(I'm just laughing my ass off ...)
Do that and you want be able to talk!
Well that's a rather superficial jibe on my part and I should rise above the temptation but anyway I'm sure the good Mr Tufte has many excellent ideas but the dogs dinner of shambles that he cares to call a website does not, as an initial impression, fill me with the greatest of hope . How much does he charge for his seminars BTW.
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How much does he charge for his seminars BTW.
One-day course is $380 per person.
Here's an interesting selection from his site where he discussed a re-design effort at the Washington Post.com ...
http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0002nk