Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Ligament on December 24, 2010, 08:06:24 pm
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Hello All,
I am new here, and new to colour management. Very confusing stuff!
I am in the US. I purchased the NEC PA241W-BK-SV bundled with the SpectraView II software and NEC MDSVSENSOR (Custom iOne Display v2).
Like the monitor a lot so far. The question is whether it is better to calibrate using:
1. SpectraView II software with the MDSVSENSOR (Custom iOne Display v2)
or
2. European SpectraView Profiler software with the MDSVSENSOR (Custom iOne Display v2)
This fellow on tftcentral indicates that profiling with the european SpectraView Profiler software is better, because it calibrates the monitor's LUT. He states that the US SpectraView II software calibrates using a hardware Matrix table.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_pa271w.htm
Which is better to us to calibrate my monitor? Despite lesser quality Matrix table, does the custom calibrated MDSVSENSOR make a better overall result? Does the the MDSVSENSOR not work as well with the european Specraview Profiler software for which it was never intended to be used? I have downloaded both and looked at both, and have not seen a major difference.
YES, SpectraView Profiler DOES allow me to select and perform "Hardware Calibration (monitor LUTs)" on my monitor.
I've attached my reports, but I'm not sure if they are comparable as I am new to this.
Thank you very much!
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Hello All,
I am new here, and new to colour management. Very confusing stuff!
I am in the US. I purchased the NEC PA241W-BK-SV bundled with the SpectraView II software and NEC MDSVSENSOR (Custom iOne Display v2).
Like the monitor a lot so far. The question is whether it is better to calibrate using:
1. SpectraView II software with the MDSVSENSOR (Custom iOne Display v2)
or
2. European SpectraView Profiler software with the MDSVSENSOR (Custom iOne Display v2)
This fellow on tftcentral indicates that profiling with the european SpectraView Profiler software is better, because it calibrates the monitor's LUT. He states that the US SpectraView II software calibrates using a hardware Matrix table.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_pa271w.htm
Which is better to us to calibrate my monitor? Despite lesser quality Matrix table, does the custom calibrated MDSVSENSOR make a better overall result? Does the the MDSVSENSOR not work as well with the european Specraview Profiler software for which it was never intended to be used? I have downloaded both and looked at both, and have not seen a major difference.
YES, SpectraView Profiler DOES allow me to select and perform "Hardware Calibration (monitor LUTs)" on my monitor.
I've attached my reports, but I'm not sure if they are comparable as I am new to this.
Thank you very much!
I don't have any experience with the Euro version of the software and the difference. One thing you should do is lower the contrast value. You are working from the default value and it's too high. I have mine set at 350:1 which is more realistic in terms of matching prints.
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You really have to ask yourself.
Would NEC release a superior product in Europe and not make it available to the U.S. market ?
And if so, why ?
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You really have to ask yourself.
Would NEC release a superior product in Europe and not make it available to the U.S. market ?
And if so, why ?
+++++
They charge 2x the US price, thats why...
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Nah. Not buying that explanation.
After the pundits have had there Christmas pudding we'll get some better answers.
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This fellow on tftcentral indicates that profiling with the european SpectraView Profiler software is better, because it calibrates the monitor's LUT. He states that the US SpectraView II software calibrates using a hardware Matrix table.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_pa271w.htm
He doesn't state anything - he's only repeating NEC Display Solutions EU statements.
To clarify - Spectraview II hardware calibrates the display using an internal 14(16)bit 3D LUT, and then makes an ICC matrix type profile. There's a suggestion, that a matrix type ICC profile is less acurate than LUT type ICC profile, but it's highly controversial and already been discussed to death on this forum.
What is really 100% certain - only SV II can makes use of internal correction of custom MDSVSENSOR, and it's supposed to work as intended only as a pair, so you can't really take advantage of MDSVSENSOR with anything but SVII.
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You really have to ask yourself.
Would NEC release a superior product in Europe and not make it available to the U.S. market ?
And if so, why ?
Exactly! Like its so darn hard for NEC US to build a product to write LUT profiles. The reviewer is way off base and the need or use of a LUT profile is not necessary with this product.
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What is really 100% certain - only SV II can makes use of internal correction of custom MDSVSENSOR, and it's supposed to work as intended only as a pair, so you can't really take advantage of MDSVSENSOR with anything but SVII.
IF this is truly 100% certain, then that answers my question, thank you. Where did this information come from?
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http://www.necdisplay.com/supportcenter/monitors/spectraview2/faq/
QUESTION: Can I use the new MDSVSENSOR2 color sensor included in the new SVII-PRO-KIT with other 3rd party calibration applications?
ANSWER: Yes, however the custom calibration for NEC wide color gamut displays will not be available. Only the standard calibration is available.
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It used to be the case that the EU versions of NEC's top line monitors had firmware that limited the use of the Spectraview software only to the special Spectraview versions of those monitors, which came packaged with the Spectraview software (and maybe also with a puck, not sure about that). So, in EU, you couldn't buy the same monitor outside the Spectraview package, obtain the Spectraview software separately, and use them together. Happily, NEC US has never chosen to go that route.
Accordingly, the EU version of Spectraview (which as I understand it used to be entirely different and independently developed software from the US version, and probably still is) was set up to look for and recognize those firmware tweaks or the lack thereof. Whether any or all of this continues to be the case with the current lines, I do not know.
Nill
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http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/154/Clearing+up+the+NEC+Spectraview+confusion
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http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/154/Clearing+up+the+NEC+Spectraview+confusion
This is also not a fair opinion - both Spectraview II and Spectraview Profiler (a.k.a. basICColor display) do a decent job when calibrating/profiling a NEC display, and despite they both have some minor advantages and disadvantages, there's no clear winner.
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You guys are really great. What a wealth of knowledge on this forum. thank you very much!
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Is it still true that the EU version of Spectraview cannot be used on monitors that don't have the special Spectraview firmware flag? Will US Spectraview II still not work on non-Spectraview EU monitors?
Nill
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+++++
They charge 2x the US price, thats why...
No, it most certainly is not!
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Is it still true that the EU version of Spectraview cannot be used on monitors that don't have the special Spectraview firmware flag? Will US Spectraview II still not work on non-Spectraview EU monitors?
Nill
Unfortunately, it's still true. And happily, US Spectraview II still works on non-Spectraview EU monitors, just like it ever did before.
I hope that after EIZO will introduce a hardware calibration EasyPIX solution for S/SX series displays later next year, NEC EU will rethink his policy.
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This is also not a fair opinion
They sure got this part spot on:
NEC is a very large electronics company and unfortunately they have created some cross market confusion with differing use of the SpectraView label in different countries.
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They sure got this part spot on:
That's the part I also agree 100%!
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They sure got this part spot on:
:D :D
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Unfortunately, it's still true.
I don't think that's correct, or rather it depends on what "Spectraview" software you use.
I originally had Spectraview 3.x to use with a Spectraview 1980 model which didn't work properly on my system. After some correspondence with NEC UK I was given a free upgrade to version 4 which did work. However this was no longer the NEC branded version, but was the unbranded version of Basicolor 4. I've since used the free update to version 4.1.22. When my SV1980 failed earlier this year I replaced it with a Multisync PA271 and Basicolor 4.1.22 (aka Spectraview) works fine with it.
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I don't think that's correct, or rather it depends on what "Spectraview" software you use.
I originally had Spectraview 3.x to use with a Spectraview 1980 model which didn't work properly on my system. After some correspondence with NEC UK I was given a free upgrade to version 4 which did work. However this was no longer the NEC branded version, but was the unbranded version of Basicolor 4. I've since used the free update to version 4.1.22. When my SV1980 failed earlier this year I replaced it with a Multisync PA271 and Basicolor 4.1.22 (aka Spectraview) works fine with it.
???
Very interesting!
I also have basICColor display 4.1.22 (lib 1.4.10/0) and one of my monitors is a Pa241W. The software does NOT allow hardware calibration (LUTs) on that monitor. Only combined hard- and software calibration is possible. Please excuse me for asking, but could you double check? I would write a letter to basICColor if that confirm, because I especially inquired and asked about that subject!
regards
EDIT: and that PA241W is a European model.
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The software does NOT allow hardware calibration (LUTs) on that monitor. Only combined hard- and software calibration is possible. Please excuse me for asking, but could you double check?
My version offers Hardware only(monitor LUT), hard & soft, soft only, no calibration profile only.
Why not use hardware & software if you've got it available ?
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My version offers Hardware only(monitor LUT), hard & soft, soft only, no calibration profile only.
Why not use hardware & software if you've got it available ?
From what I understood "hardware & software" means that this is a simple hardware calibration of the monitor, followed by a profile which is not stored in the LUT of the monitor but on the software side. That wuold defeat the whole purpose of a high-end monitor, non?
regards
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I don't think that's correct, or rather it depends on what "Spectraview" software you use.
I originally had Spectraview 3.x to use with a Spectraview 1980 model which didn't work properly on my system. After some correspondence with NEC UK I was given a free upgrade to version 4 which did work. However this was no longer the NEC branded version, but was the unbranded version of Basicolor 4. I've since used the free update to version 4.1.22. When my SV1980 failed earlier this year I replaced it with a Multisync PA271 and Basicolor 4.1.22 (aka Spectraview) works fine with it.
Can you do à harware profile, or is it only setting the brightness? And create à lut profile to load into THE graphics card?
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From what I understood "hardware & software" means that this is a simple hardware calibration of the monitor, followed by a profile which is not stored in the LUT of the monitor but on the software side.
To me that means a hardware monitor LUT calibration and a software profile to keep the system happy and working well. If you don't generate a normal monitor profile as well as a hardware LUT calibration all sorts of bad things can happen (like the system using a default sRGB monitor profile).
I guess the real question is how do you know if the monitor's hardware LUT has been changed ?
Paul
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With the PA241 & 271 it's possible to set the monitor's display space to Adobe 1998 (or any other pre-loaded colorspace) and leave it alone. On the computer's prefs, set the monitor to Adobe '98 as well. In the Adobe suites, set the workspace to Adobe '98, too. What's the spectro needed for?
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With the PA241 & 271 it's possible to set the monitor's display space to Adobe 1998 (or any other pre-loaded colorspace) and leave it alone. On the computer's prefs, set the monitor to Adobe '98 as well. In the Adobe suites, set the workspace to Adobe '98, too. What's the spectro needed for?
The spectro or the colorimeter can get you this monitor gamut , which excedes Adobe RGB. If you think you need such a thing. (in the figure the yellow triangle is AdobRGB)
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The BasICColor software does load a profile into the monitor LUT on the PA241 (bought in Canada). I downloaded the software and now when I go into the OSD I cannot change any of the color settings or much else for that matter other than things like sleep mode...blah...blah
In the options, in the software, it gives you 3 options Monitor LUT (not greyed out), hardware and software and the third is 16 bit LUT, if I recall which means video card.
It still creates a ICC profile and makes it the default in Windows. I doubt you can get by without one, even if it is a "dummy" one.
Spectraview Profiler I believe is a crippled version of BasICColor limited to NEC monitors. Not sure about that.
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Guys, thank you for the information. I decided to use Spectraview II with the included puck.
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Sorry to jump the topic. I have the X-Rite Eye-One DisplayII.
It is not NEC-branded but does it function the same for if I wish to purchase just the Spectraview software (minus the puck)?
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Sorry to jump the topic. I have the X-Rite Eye-One DisplayII.
It is not NEC-branded but does it function the same for if I wish to purchase just the Spectraview software (minus the puck)?
You can use it. It doesn’t quite function the same as the filter matrices are different (the matted unit has tuned filters for the display) but yes, you can use the unit you have.
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Thanks, Digitaldog!
But then I would have to find a place that sells the software minus the puck, correct?:O
Michael
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I think you can buy the software directly from NEC US.
Nill
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But then I would have to find a place that sells the software minus the puck, correct?:O
You should be able to buy all three as a bundle, or just the display and software if you have an existing instrument.
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You should be able to buy all three as a bundle, or just the display and software if you have an existing instrument.
Right now, buying the display and the SV-II/sensor kit separately is cheaper (by about $170 from B&H). I guess there's more pricing competition on the standalone display than the bundle.
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Here's a link (http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Accessories/?product=e4319a12-a026-42c5-a43b-4c20c7062124) where it appears you can buy the software only, either by download or on disc, directly from NEC. It was surprisingly difficult to track down.
Nill