Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Alan Matuka on November 09, 2010, 03:49:18 am
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I have been using Sinarback 54m ( 22 Mpi ) with my Hasselbladt, with 80 and 150 CF lenses.
Since I had no reference to what image quality I should expect images looked fairly O.K. - until I started noticing lack of sharpness and contrast. Also, often when shooting something beige it looks like sensor is trying to produce beige out of red, blue and other dots ( so instead of having a uniform beige panel it looks like image made out od big pixels ).
Recently I used Canon D5 and image quality seems a lot better, which I find strange.
Have you got an idea what could be the source of problem... maybe the fact that I'm using lenses that are made for film photography, and not digital...
thank you
Alan
ps it would be great if someone is using same gear combination, so I we could exchange images to compare quality
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Sinarback 54 M should be able to deliver stunning images. I am not familiar with your Hasselbladt lenses though, so I cannot comment on these. One point could be the software. Canon images, especially jpegs, are optimized to look good. Sinar CaptureShops image processing is rather conservative in comparison, especially, if you use linear curve. The idea is to give a lot of post processing headroom. This might result is a little unspectacular images from the start.
You could shoot some images with the new CaptureShop 6 and open these images (DNGs) in Camera Raw. There you get a look that is more similar to what you are used from Canon.
Martin
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@ martinwidmann
yes, images created through Captureshop lack some contrast and sharpness in the start...
as a rule I shoot always in highest resolution ( 16 bit ), and then run images through Photoshop.
Usual process is to :
- reduce from 16 to 8 bit
- go to levels and ajust contrast by giving more white and black, so tones snd colour get some sharper look
- enhance image shapnes with ' unsharp mask ' filter
so far I gave been using Captureshop 5.6.3 and couldn't get raw images...
could I email you some image so you could see first hand for yourself ?
thanks,
Alan
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Sinarback 54 M should be able to deliver stunning images. I am not familiar with your Hasselbladt lenses though, so I cannot comment on these. One point could be the software. Canon images, especially jpegs, are optimized to look good. Sinar CaptureShops image processing is rather conservative in comparison, especially, if you use linear curve. The idea is to give a lot of post processing headroom. This might result is a little unspectacular images from the start.
You could shoot some images with the new CaptureShop 6 and open these images (DNGs) in Camera Raw. There you get a look that is more similar to what you are used from canon.
Martin
Martin, I was also expecting your advice, so I hope, you don´t mind if I do it, to check, if the sensor reference is installed on the computer, the possibility to produce with Capture Shop additionally lens reference(s) and to use software features in Capture Shop (Color Alchemist, Adaptive Color Compensation etc.) to provide better quality, and also advice to all Sinarback users to provide more information, so Sinar supporter can provide them advices and possibilities that can solve the problems. Sinar was always very good and it is still this days in supporting Sinarback users. This is what I can tell as somebody who supported Sinarback users as distributor for seven years and also as Sinarback user since I have change the sides in the beginning of 2007 and working daly using Sinarback eMotion 75LV, Sinarback 54MC, Hy6...
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Hi All,
I shoot a Rollei 6008/54m with the Rollei 80mm - i think it is the same as the hassy 80 with a different mount.
OP, sounds like something is off - image quality is amazing with the 54m - far exceeds any dslr i have used....Not sure how u shoot but here is what i do and the color is dead on...
1) I use the standard profile in Capture Shop 6 (just downloaded) and shoot a ref image with a x-rite colorchecker and use neutral picker
2) i add a slight s-curve as my default setting in captureshop
3) process with adobe camera raw
are you setting the shutter speed in capture shop to be slightly longer than the shutter on the camera ? You get some weird red blurring if you dont do this... for instance if your camera is at say a 1 sec exposure set capture shop to 2 sec...I had a similar problem when i first started using the 54M because of this
regards,
dennis
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Oh yeah....I assumed you were using Captureshop...
I have tried to use exposure with the 54M and although Sinar claims it is supported it does not work - my calls and emails to support in NJ went unanswered. Shots were full of artifacts of red blue and green. If you are using exposure try Captureshop
D
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@ denniscarbo
few things that I did not try...
2) i add a slight s-curve as my default setting in captureshop
I didn't change curve settingd, asuming post production is better done after...
3) process with adobe camera raw
like you said, I'm using Captureshop 5.6.3...
what are practical differences when you use Captureshop 6 ?
thanks
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Hi Alan,
it saves as a DNG instead of an STI file, seems to be faster on my core2duo mac as well ....download is free
I just add the curve in CS6 and some sharpening - files need very little PP
Regards,
Dennis
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Hi Alan,
it saves as a DNG instead of an STI file, seems to be faster on my core2duo mac as well ....download is free
I just add the curve in CS6 and some sharpening - files need very little PP
Regards,
Dennis
good news about dng files, cos that's usual raw...
do you need a customer number to download it for free...
regards,
Alan
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good news about dng files, cos that's usual raw...
do you need a customer number to download it for free...
regards,
Alan
Hi Alan,
the download is completely free an open. You can download CaptureShop 6 here:
http://www.sinar.ch/en/downloads/category/2-sinar-captureshop
Martin
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thank you, Martin...
I'll download it, and try it...
regards,
Alan
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Try to save as DNG and open the files in Capture One.
It´s soooo much better. You will never use Sinars software again ;)
Henrik
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I only use Captureshop to "Capture" the photo as it is not a very good PP tool...all my PP in done in Photoshop
May try capture one though : )
Regards,
Dennis
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I think, Captureshop ist not a postprocessing tool, it`s a preprocessing tool. The image gets processed when you export it into a TIFF file. When you do the processing before export, it's (nearly) lossless.
I love Captureshop for its expandable curve window. You then can adjust the curve very fine. I do most of my adjustments in Captureshop and very little in Photoshop.
Christopher
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Try to save as DNG and open the files in Capture One.
It´s soooo much better. You will never use Sinars software again ;)
Henrik
I have done that. But why do so? I tried with Capture Shop 6.0b12 to:
a) process in Capture Shop, export to TIFF and open in PS CS4 for PP
b) leave DNG as it is and open with Adobe Camera Raw 5.5 and then open in PS CS4 for PP
c) import DNG to Capture One and process to TIFF and then open in PS4 for PP
At the end, all three files opened in PS CS4 look very similar, but if I would have to make some kind of ranking, then would be "c" on the third place, because in the dark (black) arias, there were some color artefacts coming though and that was not the case with "a" and "b". I was impressed with the quality of "b", as I was expecting that the best result is to process with Capture Shop.
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I think, Captureshop ist not a postprocessing tool, it`s a preprocessing tool. The image gets processed when you export it into a TIFF file. When you do the processing before export, it's (nearly) lossless.
I love Captureshop for its expandable curve window. You then can adjust the curve very fine. I do most of my adjustments in Captureshop and very little in Photoshop.
Agree Christopher - that is basically all i use in CS6 (the curves tool and neutral picker maybe so sharpening) then over to Photoshop for final
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Not sure if OP is having a processing issue or a shooting issue. Could be the back/lens needs alignment. He should be getting impressive results, even (at the risk of being wrong) with maybe sub-optimal work flow or processing. He may well have a back that needs "tuning" in its mount (e.g. shimming to get it right). Wouldn't be the first time....I understand Sinar is very good about checking and doing this work for you, even while you wait sometimes in Switzerland!
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Alan: You mentioned as first step "reducing to 8 bit". Is that your real chronological order?
Just asking.
Eduardo
@ martinwidmann
yes, images created through Captureshop lack some contrast and sharpness in the start...
as a rule I shoot always in highest resolution ( 16 bit ), and then run images through Photoshop.
Usual process is to :
- reduce from 16 to 8 bit
- go to levels and ajust contrast by giving more white and black, so tones snd colour get some sharper look
- enhance image shapnes with ' unsharp mask ' filter
so far I gave been using Captureshop 5.6.3 and couldn't get raw images...
could I email you some image so you could see first hand for yourself ?
thanks,
Alan
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Alan: You mentioned as first step "reducing to 8 bit". Is that your real chronological order?
Just asking.
Eduardo
well, I couldn't say it's always in that order...
but since few of my cliants said they use 8-bit files only I started doing it as a habit as soon as I open file in Photoshop...
thanks,
Alan
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I never reduce to 8 bit until final PP is complete...then my clients always get 8 bit
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Alan:
I had to ask because as far as I know, the 8 bit reduction should be done always after all processing is done. Is the extra bits that give you the edge. Every tweak you do destroys a bit of the data. 16 bit files should stand more abuse and probably behave better. I don't claim to be an expert (much less in front of the Lula crowd ;D) but I always keep them 16 bit until I'm done with all processing and sharpening. I usually batch convert to small jpg and to full resolution cmyk from 16 bit cooked tif files. After that I then convert the tif files to 8 bit for storage.
Probably this has nothing to do with your particular problem though.
Best
Eduardo
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hi, just to let you know about the progress...
since my last post I started using Captureshop 6.0 and results are somewhat better...
still, there is general lack of fine detail and Unsharp Mask is my dear friend that saves me...
images that I get from Captureshop 6.0 are good enough, but nevertheless it is obvious there is a general lack of sharpness, contrast and definition.
It may sound unwise but I decided to sell 54 M and replace it with Canon D5 II ( after having done some paralel tests ).
Does anyone have an idea how much I could expect to get for Sinarback 54 M in a mint condition ?
thanks
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"...images that I get from Captureshop 6.0 are good enough, but nevertheless it is obvious there is a general lack of sharpness, contrast and definition."
I can't tell the same of my Sinar 54M. Look at the left eye in this picture. Hasselblad 500CM/ 150mm CF. f/11
http://galupi20.smugmug.com/Portraits/Preferidos/2764173_JfcdC#636277031_nNprE-O-LB
Luis
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Alan,
My guess would be its not the Back that is the problem, perhaps the body or lens or even technique ? (no offense - i am not sure what or how you are shooting)- My 54M produces insane detail and sharpness. I would think between 4-5k for a mint 54M on ebay though
Regards,
D
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@ denniscarbo
I used same back in different conditions ( lighting, lens, speed )...
maybe I could send you an image sample...
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Sure...I would be happy to look at a sample. I tend to think based on what you have said maybe the focus plane is off somehow, as a previous poster said. In my experience the 54M easily out performs the 5DMKII and even the D3X at base ISO. (Not looking for a debate here, this is my experience)
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Sure...I would be happy to look at a sample. I tend to think based on what you have said maybe the focus plane is off somehow, as a previous poster said. In my experience the 54M easily out performs the 5DMKII and even the D3X at base ISO. (Not looking for a debate here, this is my experience)
I hope you are right, because that would save me going through selling whole kit ( camera, lenses and the back ), and having to buy new camera.
please send me your email address, mine is
alan@alanmatuka.com
thanks :-)