Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: keith_cooper on November 08, 2010, 02:04:12 pm
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After several years of big Epson printers in our print room, a new Canon iPF8300 (44") has arrived.
I'll be keeping a diary of sorts with observations and info I come across.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/canon_ipf8300.html (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/canon_ipf8300.html)
So, if anyone was interested in what it's like or was thinking of getting one, feel free to ask!
I'll not be using a RIP with it, although I will be using ImageNest for layout purposes if needed. That said, there is a RIP currently being
supplied in a bundle with the printer, and I think Canon are sending a copy, so I may yet get to test one with it (anyone know what you get? Canon UK were a bit hazy on this one :-)
After trying out True B&W for driving an iPF6300 for B/W printing, I'll also be looking at many aspects of B/W printing with the 8300.
I've a few of my favourite papers to profile and test, but writing about that will have to wait a while longer ;-)
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This is very timely, Keith.
Thanks.
Terry.
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I just got one as well - haven't yet set it up, and am off on a two week business trip tomorrow. As soon as mine is up (I'm a longtime iPF user, both a 5000 and a 6100), I'll post impressions here...
-Dan
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Link added to Reviews section of iPF Wiki. Thanks for the heads up!
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I'm thinking hard about getting an ipf8300 but the only way I can justify it is to be able to use it for my business (surveying and mapping) as well. In fact that would be the main use for it and my hobby (photography) would be secondary. Though the photography aspect is the most exciting to me. Does anyone have any experience using the 8300 for printing AutoCAD drawings or GIS maps/aerial photography? I know Canon makes the ipf8000s that is more suited for these purposes but it doesn't accommodate my hobby as well. I'm trying to get maximum benefit for my dollar.
BTW, this is my first post here. I'm a long time listener but a first time caller.
Thanks for any help anyone can provide.
Jack
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Jack,
If you search the forum I believe there's a thread on printing architectural drawings from a few months ago. I personally have used my ipf5100 to print out blueprints on inexpensive Canon paper and it works great.
Neil
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Very timely Keith, thanks. And nice to see how you've placed it in your print room as I'm planning something similar.
Oh, and nice Mt Rainier shot. Next time you're in Seattle stop by and say hi :)
Neil
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Thanks Neil, did you use RIP software or anything other than the Canon driver to print from autocad? I really hope that the Canon driver is good enough. The 8300 alone is a big purchase for me.
Thanks,
Jack
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Local surveyor here in Armidale uses his ipf8300 for nothing but CAD drawings. I don't think he knows what a RIP is apart from a funeral epitaph :)
BTW, also timely for me - I am wavering between a 6300 and an 8300!
Cheers
Steve
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LOL Steve! Him and I have more in common than surveying then. :) I contacted Canon regarding my concerns and they answered with the following generic computer-generated "catch all" response:
"Please use a Canon Alliance Partner software RIP solution with the
imagePROGRAF iPF-8300 for producing intricately detailed full-color
renderings, CAD drawings, GIS maps and other large-format output."
So Steve I greatly appreciate your response, it is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Now I just need to figure out where to purchase. Anyone have any recommendations?
Oh, and thank you Keith for all of the information. As others have mentioned, great timing!
Thanks,
Jack
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The Wiki members have had good experiences purchasing from these dealers (arranged in alphabetical order, not by order of preference):
http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/Which+Dealers
I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
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One thing that is nice about the iPF series is that, while they have the custom Photoshop plugin, they also have a very well-developed OS driver (I actually once sent a document to my 6100 from Microsoft Word, using a custom paper size). The user who is doing surveying and mapping should have NO problems, assuming AutoCAD will print from the OS (probably Windows). I know that ArcGIS will, because I've printed quite a few maps on my (just sold) 6100 that way, and certainly plan to run some maps on my new 8300 in addition to its primary diet of photos. I've never used AutoCAD, so I don't know for sure that it prints using normal drivers, but it certainly should. There's no reason NOT to use a 12-color printer when a 4-color model will do - especially if the 12-color printer has the iPF's low ink costs. Unless AutoCAD differs from ArcGIS in how it handles the printer, I'd feel completely comfortable using it for CAD and GIS (it will be just as good as any other 44-inch machine at drawings and maps, and a bit better than most at aerial photos...).
-Dan
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For those of you looking to buy an 8300 in the US, you should also try LexJet and DTG. I've seen almost a $1,000 difference in pre-rebate price on the 8300 depending on who you call. They are scary inexpensive at the moment.
Neil
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Mine was about $2700 delivered, which is about what the same amount of ink and fresh heads would cost. So when it comes time to replace the ink I may just buy another printer instead, then I'll have a spare in case something happens to the first guy! Really, that is about the state of things right now - a really great time to buy a new printer with the latest technology all around.
One funny point about this printer - I use mine for printing on heavy BC canvas and neither Epson or HP cutters will touch this stuff, but the Canon will zip right through it. But I've heard several folks say they won't use the cutter on canvas because it might wear out the cutter. Duh, just buy a new printer, what the heck! Hint - the rest of the printer will eventually wear out too, ha! I buy things to use, not so that they won't wear out...
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Ternst, I assume that price was after rebate?
Neil
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yes
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Ok. Just FYI for folks, it can be had for $400 less than that from various locations. The best price I've been offered so far is $2300 after rebate.
Neil
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Neile,
Do you know who has the best price on an IPF 6300?
Barry
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The price for an iPF8300 in Canada is $5949, AFTER $1650 in rebates. That's a far cry from $2300. What are the issues associated with purchasing a printer from a US vendor for use in Canada?
Terry.
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Hey Neil, that's even better! Who gave you that price - I may need to order some more ink wrapped in a printer...(I got mine from IT a month or so ago)
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Hey Neil, that's even better! Who gave you that price - I may need to order some more ink wrapped in a printer...(I got mine from IT a month or so ago)
Thats a far cry from the Oz price! Even with the Aussie dollar at near parity with the $US I am looking at around the AU$12,000 mark - and if I buy this month I get two extra years extended warranty thrown in.
Cheers
Steve
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The best prices I've seen on the 8300 are from LexJet and DTG. I haven't looked at the 6300.
LexJet also just announced they're throwing in a free iPad with any printer purchase over 42" between now and Black Friday.
Neil
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This is insane.
U guys just cost me a lot of money! :)
Anyway, I just spoke with Neil, and ordered one from LexJet. And get this--they're giving away a free iPad with every 42+" printers sale!! :o
Crazy, but crazy good! At these prices, it's time to graduate from my cloggy Epson 4000 and beautiful-result-but-oh-so-cumbersome ImagePrint!
Shipping was $99.
Thanks, Neil,
-Brad
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Mine was about $2700 delivered, which is about what the same amount of ink and fresh heads would cost. So when it comes time to replace the ink I may just buy another printer instead, then I'll have a spare in case something happens to the first guy! Really, that is about the state of things right now - a really great time to buy a new printer with the latest technology all around.
One funny point about this printer - I use mine for printing on heavy BC canvas and neither Epson or HP cutters will touch this stuff, but the Canon will zip right through it. But I've heard several folks say they won't use the cutter on canvas because it might wear out the cutter. Duh, just buy a new printer, what the heck! Hint - the rest of the printer will eventually wear out too, ha! I buy things to use, not so that they won't wear out...
I print on canvas all day long and the cutter has never skipped a beat. Breathing Color,Epson,Lexjet canvas does not matter. Like hot knife through butter. Not sure where you got your info?
Epson 7900 and 9900.
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Thanks Neile
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WTF, can it get any crazier? $3408.99 for the Canon 8300 delivered, it comes with a complete set of 330ml cartridges worth $2,000.00 +/- and now they are giving you an IPad worth $500.00, PLUS you get a $1,000.00 rebate (If the check gets mailed) so technically speaking you are paying -92.00 for the printer? What am I missing? Canon is just trying to buy the market share and it doesn't appear Epson is afraid, which leads me to wonder if the Canon is as good as the Epson 9900? Correct me if I'm wrong but the Epson is about $2300.00 more when you take into account the difference in the amount of ink that comes with each printer? Something seems amiss to me. I was going to buy an IPad, might as well get it for FREE ;D
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I know--insane, eh?!
I certainly hadn't planned to pick up a 44" printer when I woke up this morning, nor had I planned on an iPad, but there you have it... :) It's something I've been thinking about for a good long time, mind you, but for me, Epson just hasn't gotten both the ink switching and the clogging right in the same model printer.
Most every report coming back about the Canon seems to be quite positive, the price can't get any lower (can it??! ;)), and the simplified workflow printing directly from applications, and high-bit color printing from Photoshop compared to the ImagePrint workflow will be most welcome. I hope the results from color and black and white printing are comparable.
I'll report back on how it goes once I receive it and get it rolling. :)
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Hey Dan, one of the guys at BC told me not to use the cutter on the Canon to cut their thick canvas - might wear it out. I've been using BS ever since Bill Atkinson got me started with them three years ago - his printer would not cut the thick BC canvas either, and I bet Bill has a secret stash of Canon's in the back room just to cut all his prints with, ha!
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I've turned off the cutter on my ipf5100 for the Lyve canvas as well, and just use scissors.
Neil
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I bought an early iPF5000 then a year and a half later bought a second one at half price with 2 sets of inks, the cost of just one set of inks and I got 2 heads, a roll feed and a second printer!!!!!
Marc
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For those members in Oz, we found no difficulty in getting one of the well-known suppliers happy to sell us a 8300. You need a US address for delivery, maybe "Ship it To" would handle a big item like this. But there are international freight handlers who move stuff like this all the time in the US and Oz.
You would be up for GST but that's only another 10%. The other problem is that you're without a useable warranty. But at US/AUD parity, $12,000 less $2,300 you would be so far in front even after freight that a breakdown, if it happened, wouldn't be hard to pay for.
Perhaps a useful example, but not accurate, is that shipping a Mustang from the US to Oz is about $3,500.
If a large printer cost similar your landed cost would be 3500 + 2300 + (0.1 x 2300) = 6030, or a saving of nearly $6000. My guess is that the printer would cost less than a Mustang to freight.
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For those members in Oz, we found no difficulty in getting one of the well-known suppliers happy to sell us a 8300. You need a US address for delivery, maybe "Ship it To" would handle a big item like this. But there are international freight handlers who move stuff like this all the time in the US and Oz.
You would be up for GST but that's only another 10%. The other problem is that you're without a useable warranty. But at US/AUD parity, $12,000 less $2,300 you would be so far in front even after freight that a breakdown, if it happened, wouldn't be hard to pay for.
Perhaps a useful example, but not accurate, is that shipping a Mustang from the US to Oz is about $3,500.
If a large printer cost similar your landed cost would be 3500 + 2300 + (0.1 x 2300) = 6030, or a saving of nearly $6000. My guess is that the printer would cost less than a Mustang to freight.
I looked very carefully into buying an 8300 from the US and freighting it to Australia (best price I could get an IPF8300 locally in Aust for was $9000 inc. GST). B&H quote $3500 for freight to Australia; which is expensive shipping and I am sure you can get cheaper if you shopped it. I doubt it would be much cheaper though. Shipping a car is a different story as you buy a container and it goes by sea. Shipping a printer like the 8300 by air is a different kettle of fish.
Once imported you pay GST on the whole component - including freight + customs clearance fees. Its anything but trivial. You are not eligable for the US rebate if printer is shipped outside of USA so you dont get the extra $1000 off.
The US are 110 volt so you need a step down transformer to run the printer here in Australia - a good step down is a couple of hundred dollars at least.
No local warranty on the printer in Australia. Imagine freighting it to Oz and finding there is a problem! These are complex machines with lots of moving parts.
Resale value - no one in Oz is going to want a used 110volt no warranty machine.
I am not saying you cant import an 8300 for less than it will cost to buy one locally - because you can. What I am saying is that it just isn't worth it on this kind of purchase. Local warranty and support is just king in this regard. Which really sucks as we get gouged in Australia on these printers compared to the US.
There are some good deals to be had in Oz - you just have to beat up the resellers with a big stick. I just paid $5,500 inc. GST for a Canon IPF6350 (which is a 6300 but with inbuilt hard drive) and it came with a free Canon 7D and 18-135IS lens with full Aussie warranty. I ebayed the camera and lens as I didnt need them and got $2000 for them - so printer cost me $3,500. For an IPF6350 in Australia that is a phenomenal price and way less than importing one from the US. At the time I bought the 6350 the 8300 was being offered with a free 5D MKII and lens in Australia. You could have payed $9000 for the printer, ebayed the camera and lens and ended up paying around $6000 - now that is less than importing one from the US and with local warranty.
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I did mention that you need a US address for delivery. The 8300 like most electronics these days can handle 110 - 240 V and 50 or 60 Hz. You only need a $10 pin adapter. We've brought in many cameras this way and never needed a warranty call.
Your other points are valid though.
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I just read through Canon's warranty terms and conditions. In my case it's a joint US - Canada document, and it does not identify any restrictions related to country of purchase, other than the number to call for remote diagnostics and product support. Purchasing in the US, for use in Canada, may indeed be viable. The US Canon rebate however, is restricted to American citizens.
Terry.
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I've been trying out more papers with the 8300 and have written up some more observations
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/canon_ipf8300.html (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/canon_ipf8300.html)
Since I had an A3+ box of Epson TPP/ExFib I thought I'd check for marks, as noticed in a thread here in the Spring.
Sure enough, with care in lighting, you can indeed see a slight surface mark (a faint vertical line to the left of the main reflection). It's a small dent in the paper, not a scratch in the surface;
(http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/content_images/8300/tfp-mark1.jpg)
Confirms what I noticed about the fragility of the surface of this paper when I was reviewing the Epson 4880 some time ago (Which is why the box still had plenty of sheets in it). Given the very close resemblance to Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss (IFA 49) I rechecked my prints with that paper, and there are no marks at all. I've tried several other thickish papers and only the Epson TPP/ExF shows any marking.
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I can see it clearly in your photo. Looks like I'm keeping my 5100 around for cut sheets!
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Unless you specifically needed to use that paper, I'd not take this as evidence of anything much more than the fragility of the surface of Epson ExF :-) I'd certainly not use it as an excuse to keep an old printer...
As I mentioned, the surface fragility was my key gripe with that paper when I first looked at it (on an Epson 4880). My preference is for the much more robust Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss (IFA 49) which, along with every other paper I've tested, shows no sign of marking - and I looked pretty carefully...
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WTF, can it get any crazier? $3408.99 for the Canon 8300 delivered, it comes with a complete set of 330ml cartridges worth $2,000.00 +/- and now they are giving you an IPad worth $500.00, PLUS you get a $1,000.00 rebate (If the check gets mailed) so technically speaking you are paying -92.00 for the printer? What am I missing? [...] Correct me if I'm wrong but the Epson is about $2300.00 more when you take into account the difference in the amount of ink that comes with each printer?
The Epson price difference is more than that at the moment. They are $5000-ish, less a similar $1000 rebate so thats $4000 but with small starter ink carts worth, oh... $600 maybe? So its ~$3400 nett vs ~$400, leaving the ipad gift to one side (you can get that on either).
Its a big $3000 advantage to the Canon, amazed Epson have not offered some free inks to the 7900/9900 buyers to balance the scales a bit. And yes, no clogging, wider gamut in the important shadow areas, and a great support team. I think its much uglier to look at than the Epson, but its not about that!