Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: David R. Gurtcheff on February 28, 2005, 03:05:45 pm
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Thanks again: I'm looking seriously at the Gitzo 1227....seems to fill the bill for me.
Again, thanks
Dave
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I am aware of that. But why pay 50% more for 5% more tripod? Is CF really worth it if you aren't too concerned about weight. A cast iron Dutch oven is way better than an aluminum one until you need to carry it. Put the extra money into something you can use.
It's more like 50% more money for 60-70% more tripod. As Jack says, CF is much better than metal at absorbing vibrations, and it's significantly more rigid for the same weight. It's a night and day difference, not a minuscule fraction of a decimal point only obsessed pixel peepers would care about.
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To everyone:
I'm a retired engineer and want -to -be photographer (amateur). I really, really appreciate all the help I have received from this site, and I ordered a Gitzo 1227 from B&H in NY.
Very kindest regards
Dave Gurtcheff
www.modernpictorials.com
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Jack I appreciate your 2 cents, no offense taken, as I respect your opinion. What ball head would you recommend for the 1227?
Dave
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I replaced my Manfrotto monster just over a year ago with my first CF, a Gitzo 1327 Mk II, and have never looked back since. I shoot weddings, and find it perfect for DSLR or Hasselblad. Paid about $700 CAN at Vistek; still using my customized Slik/Manfrotto hybrid ball head with it, which I absolutely love.
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I've been using the Manfrotto 441, 4 section carbon fiber, with a Manfrotto pan ball head. It's compact and still can expand to almost eye level (I'm 6' 5").
I prefer the lever locks instead of the twist collars found on Gitzo tripods.
I also a Really Right Stuff's quick release mounting plate. My camera bodies are equipped with RRS "L" brackets and all my long lenses have RRS mounting plates.
Bud
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First off...I hate using tripods..they slow me down and are heavy. I generally use 200 EI and a monopod. My tripod just broke...it was a Bogen. I used it to make night shots during a snow storm, and I suspect the white metal collars became brittle. and broke. I repaired the collar with "gorilla glue", but in the process permantly glued one leg extended! I'm ready for a state of the art carbon fiber. My normal photography is landscapes with wide angle lenses and polarizer, so exposures would normally be relatively short. But on occasion, I do long lens or night work, where a sturdier tripod is needed. I already have a ball head which I really like, and will keep it. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Dave
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Thanks Guys.
Dave
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I don't use a CF tripod. If you seldom use a tripod, I see little sense in the money. A good metal tripd will provide nearly all the benefits of a CF one, except weight, for less money. I don't use CF because I never carry a tripod very far, and just don't need it. I'd rather spend the money on lunch.
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Although I rarely use a tripod anymore in these days of low-noise high ISO speeds and shake-reduction mechanisms, I have a Slick Pro 803 CF with a Novoflex Magic Ball head and Schatler quick release system. This set-up served me nicely in New Zealand the few times I used it with a Contax ND and 70-300 zoom.
DJ
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I have never made an image that made me say I wish I had a better tripod.
I *have*, though. I've trashed a number of shots because my lightweight Velbon aluminum travel tripod just couldn't hold still in a breeze. I'm thinking about getting a CF one myself to get something lightweight that won't have that problem nearly as often. Hence, I'm highly interested in this thread...
Lisa
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Re the RRS lever clamp...
Be advised that some older Arca-style QR plates were cut to a slightly narrower tolerance than RRS or Kirk currently use, and these plates will NOT lock in the RRS lever clamp.
In fact, my biggest gripe on the RRS lever clamp is that it is NOT adjustable other than open or close. Seems to me it would be a simple matter to have the lever on a lead screw that could be twisted up one turn to tighten or backed off one to loosen the clamping force.
Cheers,
Jack
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To everyone:
I'm a retired engineer and want -to -be photographer (amateur). I really, really appreciate all the help I have received from this site, and I ordered a Gitzo 1227 from B&H in NY.
Very kindest regards
Dave Gurtcheff
www.modernpictorials.com
And what head did you buy?
,
Jack
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The Gitzo basalt tripods are starting to become available. They're very close in weight to CF, quite a bit less expensive (at B&H, the Gitzo 1298 basalt is $340, while the 1228 CF is $460.), and have an improved leg lock, but the total load rating is smaller. I would expect they should be low vibration since they're also made from a composite fiber material. Anyone have any experience with one yet?
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Has anyone tried the Fiesol CF tripods. Good price if they are good enough.
DS
???
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Another ballhead that I heard quite a bit about was Markins ballhead found Here. (http://www.markinsamerica.com/MA3/category.php?cat=1&catname=Ballheads) This ballhead is very poular among the Nikonians www.nikonians.com crowd, but I am slightly suspect as that site actually sells the head. Mr. Reichman told me that there should be at some point a upcoming review of this ballhead and how it compares to the RRS. All he mentioned at the time was the the Markins was a very fine ballhead, but not quite up to speed with the RRS, however he didn't go into details. I guess we'll have to wait for his review.
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Just a question about the Gitzo CF tripod with regards to model. I am 6' 3" and would like to know which model would be recommended for my height. I'm not as concerned about compactness since I won't be doing alot of hiking but would like one that is lighter than the Manfrotto aluminum tripod that I am currently using.
Thanks for the help
The 4-section leg models (1228 and 1349) have a longer reach than the 3-section leg models (1227 and 1325).
Hope that helps!
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you might want to have a look at the Manfrotto Magfiber series, the 055 or 190 series. I have one and have found them to be of top quality.
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I'm using the CF version of the Gitzo Explorer. It's reasonably light and sturdy, and can be configured in unusual ways, which is handy for macro work.
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Mike has it nailed. The 1325 has the advantage of accepting the leveling base, which I find useful but awfully heavy. (They should make a light weight version of the leveler) When I go lite I leave it off and just attach the ball directly to the 1325 and its very lightweight for hiking
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I am aware of that. But why pay 50% more for 5% more tripod? Is CF really worth it if you aren't too concerned about weight. A cast iron Dutch oven is way better than an aluminum one until you need to carry it. Put the extra money into something you can use.
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Have you ever even touched a CF tripod?
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Off topic: Anyone else ever notice how the Acratech drifts slightly as you tighten is down? The RRS completely eliminates that. Compose the shot and tighten - zero drift. ZERO. I no longer have to compensate!
Bob: FTR, no way that comment is OT -- when discussing pods, discussions of heads is a natural sequitur...
To answer your question, YES, I did notice that with the Acratech. Also precisely why I immediately returned it -- nothing more frustrating than to get your framing lined up only to have it tweak out as you lock down your head! Which is how I ended up with the Kirk BH-3 as the lightweight head on my 1228...
For posterity on this thread, the Arca, Kirk and NPC do not shift as you tighten them either.
Cheers,
Jack
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Speaking of sharpness of aluminum and CF tripods, does anyone by chance have an example of the difference between them. I know that the exact reframing of a shot with different tripods is impossible and I am not asking you to go out and try it, but if you have some pictures that are taken at the same shutter speed of a target of similar distance with both an aluminum and a CF tripod I'd greatly apreciate seeing them.
Thank you for your help,
Stefan
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Re the RRS lever clamp...
Be advised that some older Arca-style QR plates were cut to a slightly narrower tolerance than RRS or Kirk currently use, and these plates will NOT lock in the RRS lever clamp.
In fact, my biggest gripe on the RRS lever clamp is that it is NOT adjustable other than open or close. Seems to me it would be a simple matter to have the lever on a lead screw that could be twisted up one turn to tighten or backed off one to loosen the clamping force.
Bob, Jack,
Thanks for your replies. I was wondering if the clamp lever was adjustable (to compensate for wear and variations in plate size). I use RRS or Kirk plates so this shouldn't present a problem, but this does give me pause for thought.
Best,
Paul
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Hi Jack; I kept my previous ball joint head which I really like. It is a Kenko FP-120 PRO.
Thanks for your help.
Dave
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Thanks again Jack. Just ordered the Kirk BH-3 (2 week wait). Didn't expect to pay that much for a ball head, but I respect your opinion, and you do get what you pay for.
Best regards
Dave
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I agree with all of the comments about the RRS LR clamp. It is fine with RRS plates, but it is also worth pointing out that it is incompatible with Arca products themselves. For example, it will not lock down on the rail of my Arca F-line.
On the subject of ballhead alternatives to Kirk, Arca, acratech RRS,etc., I would not dismiss the Linhof Profi ballheads which will also take the RRS and other clamps. I also recently handled two others, Giottos (poor) and a head from a German company called FLM. This was very solidly made out of metal and is similar in design to the Arca, except it has a metal ball like the Linhof. It comes in different sizes and is surprisingly cheap. It can be bought without the platform and in the UK is available from Speed graphic.
When it comes to tripods, nobody ever seems to have a good word for the Manfrotto carbon models. I have a 440 with the carbon 544 levelling base/column. Great travelling tripod and I so much prefer the flip-locks on the legs to those dreadful twist locks on the Gitzos (I have a 1328 and a 1349 as well).
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FWIW, I am 6'-6" tall. Plus I do not like to extend the center column unless absolutely necessary since it compromises stability -- gives you a monopod on three legs instead of a tripod.
That being said, the 1228 is not really tall enough for me to use as an everyday pod, ut it is a great travel pod. The 1348 will go taller than I am -- which I like when I need to plant a leg further downhill than I am -- so perhaps more length than you need. The 1325 is probably about right, and a little lighter and a little cheaper than the 1348.
Cheers,
Jack
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I use and recommend a Gitzo 1325 as my primary tripod. Only reservation I'd have is if you are very tall. I'm 6' 2", and would encounter problems if my 1325 were any shorter than it is.
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I use three Gitzo CF's --
the 1228 with a Kirk BH-3 for travel (fits inside a 22" carryon and is good for up to the 70-200/2.8 IS on a 1D/1Ds camera),
the 1325 with levelling base and geared head for my LF camera (good for most any camera/lens combo, unless it is huge -- then go to the 1548),
and the 1348 with levelling base and Arca B1 as my normal heavy duty pod to use with DSLR while in the field -- (I prefer the three longer legs on the 1325 for lighter weight and faster adjustment, but I'm relatively tall at 6'-6" and the 1325 does not go quite tall enough for some of my needs with the DSLR. Plus I'm anal, and when on a trip I like to have back-ups )
Cheers,
Jack
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Howard et al:
For the record, in addition to being lighter in weight, carbon fiber also has better damping properties than metal tubing. In this respect it is more like wood in that it does not tend to transmit or carry harmonic vibrations as readily as metal.
All good when you are looking for the utmost in camera stability :cool:
Jack
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I have never made an image that made me say I wish I had a better tripod. I have carried heavier tripods for sure. There just may be better bang for your buck than a CF tripod.
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Have you ever even touched a CF tripod?
Ahah - so I'm not the only one! Sunday morning I went out shooting with 3 other guys who all had aluminum Bogens. It was 10 degrees F out. I'm here to tell you those guys were almost in tears dealing with their pods. Meanwhile I'm just setting up shots one after another. And - the touch is so smooth - it just screams quality design and build.
My Pods (finally)
For Long Hikes: Gitzo 1228 with Acratech Ultimate Ballhead
For eveything else: Gitzo 1325 with leveling base and RRS BH-55 Ballhead.
By the way, the 1325/RRS is a noticable upgrade in stability. I produced detail in some of my 20D shots that made me sweat when I printed them out. There is something to be gained with the extra weight and the more secure ball head.
Off topic: Anyone else ever notice how the Acratech drifts slightly as you tighten is down? The RRS completely eliminates that. Compose the shot and tighten - zero drift. ZERO. I no longer have to compensate!
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This shot is upressed from about a 25% crop of a 20D image. Taken rom about a 1/3 of a mile away on distant shore with the 300mm f/4 L. When I preview it in Photoshop at 100% I can see buds in the distant tree branches. That is the Carbon Fiber at work!
(http://boku.smugmug.com/photos/16571325-M.jpg)
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For Long Hikes: Gitzo 1228 with Acratech Ultimate Ballhead
For eveything else: Gitzo 1325 with leveling base and RRS BH-55 Ballhead.
Bob,
My all-around tripod is a 1348 and yes, I like it a lot better in cold weather than aluminum legs. I chose the 1348 rather than the 1325 because the extra leg segment makes it more versatile on uneven ground and also packs shorter for travel.
Another detour to ballheads. I'm very interested in the RRS ballhead. Did you get the quick release lever clamp and if so how do you like it? I'd like to get your opinion on how well that clamp will retain its tightening ability over time.
Thanks,
Paul
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I too have the quick release RRS clamp and I havn't had any problems so far with clamping tightness or it letting go. I've got it mated with the RRS 10D L bracket, so no real surprise that it fits like a glove.
Also, I've got this sitting on top of the Acratech ballhead, and I havn't had any complaints so far. I have noticed a very slight shift when working on 1:1 macro subjects or with long lenses, but nothing to get worked up about. I do a lot of hiking, hence my primary motivator was the low weight.
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Hi Jack; I kept my previous ball joint head which I really like. It is a Kenko FP-120 PRO.
Thanks for your help.
Dave
I'll add this as delicately as possible...
Putting a cheap ballhead on a Gitzo CF pod is like putting Sears tires on a Ferrari -- you'll never glean the full potential of either piece of equipment if the point of connection is a weak link.
My .02 only and respect that YMMV,
Jack
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Jack I appreciate your 2 cents, no offense taken, as I respect your opinion. What ball head would you recommend for the 1227?
Dave
I would look at both the Acratech and the Kirk BH-3.
I tried an Acratech and loved its design and weight. But in use the angled ball socket tended to make the ball want to rotate on that anguled axis, which drove me nuts when trying to fine-tune it. A has already been mentioned, it also wanted to shift when locked:
http://acratech.net/ (http://acratech.net/)
I then got the little Kirk, and have been very happy with it:
http://www.kirkphoto.com/ballheadbh3.html (http://www.kirkphoto.com/ballheadbh3.html)
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As I mentioned way back at the start of this thread, I use the Gitzo 1325 as my main tripod. For an ultralight travel or hiking tripod, I like my Gitzo 1028. It is extremely light. It is not awesome as a superstable tripod, but I think it is decent for the weight. I originally used an acratech ultimate ballhead on it, but didn't like the ballhead (I'm glad to see Jack Flesher's comments on it, I thought I was the only person who didn't like the acratech!) and am now using a RRS BH-25. Works well for moderate-sized lenses as long as I keep my expectations realistic.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting this as a primary tripod! :cool:
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I second the comment on the 1228 for height. I'm 5'10" and it's perfect for me with a Kirk BH-1 ballhead. It sits right at my eye-height with the legs fully extended without the center column extended. If you're taller, you'll be slightly stooped over looking through the view finder.
I use the 1228 as my primary landscape tripod complete with BH-1 and RRS pano equipment. I make stitched images with this setup. The best two features by far are the light weight and it's not bone chilly cold at sub-zero temps.
My large lens and previously primary tripod is an older Gitzo 410 (now it's the 1410). It's an awesome tripod, large, stable and very capable but it's heavy and bone chilly cold on sub-zero days.
Cheers
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Hi there,
I'll second the Gitzo advice, I have been using 2 of them (1227 and 1028) and love them.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I have never made an image that made me say I wish I had a better tripod.
And man-oh-man *so have I...*
In fact it was way back when in my film SLR days that I first decided to buy a "real" tripod, a Gitzo 341... All aluminum, larger than I thought I'd ever need and correspondingly heavy.
And all of a sudden my images were better. A *lot* better...
Several years later CF hit the market with the Gitzo 1348... yes, the same one referenced above; I've had it for about 10 years. At the time, I had trouble justifying the cost (about $600 back then) just to save weight. A trusted sales rep told me it was not the weight that was so important but the lack of vibration. I was skeptical, so he gave me the pod to test out for a weekend...
I went back Monday AM, paid for that pod and immediately sold my pair of aluminum Gitzos.
(BTW that 1348 pod has actually saved my life, but that's a story for another thread.)
In a nutshell, the weight-savings is the bonus... gravy. Lack of vibration is the real reason to use CF.
Oh yeah, and as Jonathan said, the difference is like 60% or 70%, not 5%...
Cheers,
Jack
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For Long Hikes: Gitzo 1228 with Acratech Ultimate Ballhead
For eveything else: Gitzo 1325 with leveling base and RRS BH-55 Ballhead.
Bob,
My all-around tripod is a 1348 and yes, I like it a lot better in cold weather than aluminum legs. I chose the 1348 rather than the 1325 because the extra leg segment makes it more versatile on uneven ground and also packs shorter for travel.
Another detour to ballheads. I'm very interested in the RRS ballhead. Did you get the quick release lever clamp and if so how do you like it? I'd like to get your opinion on how well that clamp will retain its tightening ability over time.
Thanks,
Paul
I got the quick release clamp. It seems easy to use and more secure than the screw clamp. That is based on the fact that I dropped two cameras from my Acratech screw clamp because it really wasn't tightened down (my fault). The RRS QR lever clamp provides immediate visual feedback as to whether it is locked or not.
When RRS comes out with the middle-weight version (BH-40?) in the summer, I will get one to replace the Acratech. It will also be equiped with the QR Lever clamp. No question about it.
I can't speak about long-term performance of the RRS head. I just got it last week.
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I have been using the Feisol 4 section CF tripod mated to an acratech ball head, for the last 6 months. I never had a Gitzo, but I did have a succession of light junky ones, lastly the Velbon Maxi. The Feisol tripod is in a completley different league. There have been many positive reports and the only unanswered question is how it will stand up to years of wear and tear. Accordingly, I would recommend it to weekend phtographers, travelers and hikers who want a very stable set up. With the acratech attached it is still fairly light, it fits in a standard suitcase, comes with a carrying bag, and the legs adjust quicky and securely.
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Just a question about the Gitzo CF tripod with regards to model. I am 6' 3" and would like to know which model would be recommended for my height. I'm not as concerned about compactness since I won't be doing alot of hiking but would like one that is lighter than the Manfrotto aluminum tripod that I am currently using.
Thanks for the help