Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 07:51:19 am

Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 07:51:19 am
Hey everyone,

As I get closer to saving for my much wanted Canon 5DMk2 upgrade ( I currently shoot with a Canon 40D ), I wonder... is the 5DMk2 already past it's optimum buying time? It would be horrible to buy a Mk2 just as a new Mk3 is announced. Or announced a few weeks later on.

So, when do you think a Mk3 will come out? If it will come out. I know gossips are starting to spring here and there, but they have for the past year or so, but anything solid? If you were to take US$4000 of your savings ( how much the 5DMk2 costs in Brazil ) would you buy now, or wait?

Thank you so much for your input and help,

Jessica
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: fredjeang on July 19, 2010, 08:49:35 am
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
Hey everyone,

As I get closer to saving for my much wanted Canon 5DMk2 upgrade ( I currently shoot with a Canon 40D ), I wonder... is the 5DMk2 already past it's optimum buying time? It would be horrible to buy a Mk2 just as a new Mk3 is announced. Or announced a few weeks later on.

So, when do you think a Mk3 will come out? If it will come out. I know gossips are starting to spring here and there, but they have for the past year or so, but anything solid? If you were to take US$4000 of your savings ( how much the 5DMk2 costs in Brazil ) would you buy now, or wait?

Thank you so much for your input and help,

Jessica
What??!!
Maybe you should plan a trip to Europe with the savings and buy the 5DMK2 here. Body is sold at an average of 2200 euros in Madrid with the vertical grip. (US$ 2850 ) and 2000 euros body alone.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 08:57:50 am
Quote from: fredjeang
What??!!
Maybe you should plan a trip to Europe with the savings and buy the 5DMK2 here. Body is sold at an average of 2200 euros in Madrid with the vertical grip. (US$ 2850 ) and 2000 euros body alone.

Yeah, but two reasons why not to:

1 - I need insurance, and insurance that would cover the cost of a new body. Insurance would cover the US$2850 body, not the tickets, hotels and meals. SO, I wouldn't have enough to buy a new one anyway.

2 - Upon arrival in Brazil, if customs asks to inspect my luggage ( could happen, not really an odd chance ) I would have to present the coupon and pay 100% taxes on anything over the buying limit ( currently, US$500 )... so, pay US$2350 in taxes, LOL. Just, those taxes would again, not come into the insurance math, so, again, only US$2850 would be insured.

This is an evil country when you consider how it handles it's citizens. What I am truly considering is moving away on the long run, LOL.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: feppe on July 19, 2010, 09:15:37 am
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
Hey everyone,

As I get closer to saving for my much wanted Canon 5DMk2 upgrade ( I currently shoot with a Canon 40D ), I wonder... is the 5DMk2 already past it's optimum buying time? It would be horrible to buy a Mk2 just as a new Mk3 is announced. Or announced a few weeks later on.

So, when do you think a Mk3 will come out? If it will come out. I know gossips are starting to spring here and there, but they have for the past year or so, but anything solid? If you were to take US$4000 of your savings ( how much the 5DMk2 costs in Brazil ) would you buy now, or wait?

Thank you so much for your input and help,

Jessica

Unless you need the 5D2 now, I would wait until the fall for announcements.

The more appropriate question is why, though. I was in the same boat eighteen months ago, having gone from 30D to 450D - decided that I get more out of photography by investing in a trip to Central America rather than buying the 5D2. So now I shoot a 550D (and MFT and 6x6 film and soon 4x5 LF).

Opportunity cost of upgrading is something which we ignore too often...

Further, depending on the glass you shoot with now upgrading lenses might make a bigger impact than a new camera. I sold my zooms (including the rather highly regarded 24-105mm L) and am fully prime now, and won't buy a zoom ever again - you get much higher IQ for cheap with primes.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 09:57:32 am
Quote from: feppe
Unless you need the 5D2 now, I would wait until the fall for announcements.

The more appropriate question is why, though. I was in the same boat eighteen months ago, having gone from 30D to 450D - decided that I get more out of photography by investing in a trip to Central America rather than buying the 5D2. So now I shoot a 550D (and MFT and 6x6 film and soon 4x5 LF).

Opportunity cost of upgrading is something which we ignore too often...

Further, depending on the glass you shoot with now upgrading lenses might make a bigger impact than a new camera. I sold my zooms (including the rather highly regarded 24-105mm L) and am fully prime now, and won't buy a zoom ever again - you get much higher IQ for cheap with primes.

I might say, I'm a professional food photography shooter, and I shoot with L glass or primes right now. It's really that 10Mp is too little for some of my clients to work with. And, if I'm moving up, I'd go all the way to Full Frame, rather than just add Mp, really. But, it's only a couple of clients who made remarks on 10Mp, and only a stock food agency who started turning them down regarding Mp count. I can wait a few months for a Mk3.

So, considering I'm talking about actual clients and their requirements... I'm not sure how a trip would help me improve my photography regarding that :| But at least there's the "why".
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 10:07:10 am
To be honest, one of the advantages of Full Frame over crop, for food photography, is the fact with a 70mm or a 100mm prime, I don't have to climb a staircase to shoot food at some angles, because of the crop factor :| Having your 100mm Macro become a 160mm is that annoying, LOL
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on July 19, 2010, 10:41:51 am
Jessica,

It's Photokina year so if Canon has anything coming it will be announced in August or September, so if you can wait until Photokina announcements are made you will be in a better position to judge.

You could also consider the option of buying a 60 or 50 mm macro lens if working distance is a major problem for you.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
Hey everyone,

As I get closer to saving for my much wanted Canon 5DMk2 upgrade ( I currently shoot with a Canon 40D ), I wonder... is the 5DMk2 already past it's optimum buying time? It would be horrible to buy a Mk2 just as a new Mk3 is announced. Or announced a few weeks later on.

So, when do you think a Mk3 will come out? If it will come out. I know gossips are starting to spring here and there, but they have for the past year or so, but anything solid? If you were to take US$4000 of your savings ( how much the 5DMk2 costs in Brazil ) would you buy now, or wait?

Thank you so much for your input and help,

Jessica
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Ken Bennett on July 19, 2010, 12:31:13 pm
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
So, considering I'm talking about actual clients and their requirements...


As a working professional, your camera should meet your clients' needs and pay for itself over time. Your 40D isn't doing that right now, since you say that your files are being rejected by an agency.

If the 5D Mark II will meet your needs, and you'll make enough additional income to cover the cost over the course of the next year or so, then it's a good investment. It doesn't matter that a Mark III is on the horizon somewhere -- that's *always* true, no matter when we buy new gear.

In any case, if I had to guess, I would say that Canon won't release a 5D Mark III until many months after the 1Ds Mark IV comes out. But that's a wild guess on my part, based on logical marketing decisions, and Canon has a history of surprising us.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: feppe on July 19, 2010, 12:37:11 pm
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
I might say, I'm a professional food photography shooter, and I shoot with L glass or primes right now. It's really that 10Mp is too little for some of my clients to work with. And, if I'm moving up, I'd go all the way to Full Frame, rather than just add Mp, really. But, it's only a couple of clients who made remarks on 10Mp, and only a stock food agency who started turning them down regarding Mp count. I can wait a few months for a Mk3.

So, considering I'm talking about actual clients and their requirements... I'm not sure how a trip would help me improve my photography regarding that :| But at least there's the "why".

I wasn't suggesting a trip, it was a general comment to show there are many other ways to invest in photography than buying a new camera.

All I'm saying is don't listen to the marketers telling what you must have right now, and to look at putting money where it has the best ROI - this applies to amateurs like me as well as pros. It very well might be that 5D2 might make more sense than getting a 7D and swapping lenses to shorter ones. But it also could be thata shorter macro with 7D might make more sense, and you could buy an octabank with the savings.

Or you might just save the money towards your move out of Brazil  If you're looking to save on taxes, don't move to Europe: tax burden in most countries here is ludicrous (http://www.forbes.com/global/2009/0413/034-tax-misery-reform-index.html), even compared to Brazil. Getting a work permit is very difficult, but that's the case in most of the Western world.

And we get the same treatment at the border as you when bringing in expensive equipment - speaking from bitter experience.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Kirk Gittings on July 19, 2010, 01:01:54 pm
I can highly recommend the 5DMII as I make my living with it and am quite happy with it. But its too early for an MIII upgrade. Canon is usually on a 3 year cycle and the 5DMII was just introduced in September of 08. Watch Canon Rumors (http://www.canonrumors.com/) for info, but it is all a guessing game really.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on July 19, 2010, 01:48:27 pm
Hi,

I'd suggest that Canon is not that eager to release a new camera if there is no significant competition. The competition for the the 5DII right now is Sony Alpha 850/900. If Sony comes with a new Alpha, Canon will respond. Nikon may have a D700X in coming, if so, Canon will respond. But right now I'd suggest that Canon is satisfied with their market position.

My suggestion is that you if you can wait a few months, until Photokina, you probably won't invest in a less than up to date camera. If you cannot wait the 5DII is certainly a good camera to buy. Pity to hear that prices in Brazil are that high. Here in Sweden a 5DII body goes for about 2100 EUR.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: Kirk Gittings
I can highly recommend the 5DMII as I make my living with it and am quite happy with it. But its too early for an MIII upgrade. Canon is usually on a 3 year cycle and the 5DMII was just introduced in September of 08. Watch Canon Rumors (http://www.canonrumors.com/) for info, but it is all a guessing game really.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Luis Argerich on July 19, 2010, 02:14:42 pm
Good question...

I think the 1Ds MKIV and the Canon 60D will be released before the 5D is updated and I don't see Canon launching 3 new bodies before 2011. So I'd say the 5dII will stay for a while. Can't be sure of course.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Wolfman on July 19, 2010, 04:15:51 pm
I believe it would be wise to get the 5D2 now.... as everybody has said Canon's history shows that a 5D3 won't be along very soon... a 1Ds4 maybe at Photokina, but the price will be high.... you won't go wrong with the 5D2 even if a 5D3 does surprise us and come a little sooner..... wait for Photokina announcements as people have suggested... you can drive yourself crazy guessing when the next big thing is coming.... the 5D2 will fill all the needs you have mentioned.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 05:19:24 pm
Quote from: feppe
I wasn't suggesting a trip, it was a general comment to show there are many other ways to invest in photography than buying a new camera.

All I'm saying is don't listen to the marketers telling what you must have right now, and to look at putting money where it has the best ROI - this applies to amateurs like me as well as pros. It very well might be that 5D2 might make more sense than getting a 7D and swapping lenses to shorter ones. But it also could be thata shorter macro with 7D might make more sense, and you could buy an octabank with the savings.

Or you might just save the money towards your move out of Brazil  If you're looking to save on taxes, don't move to Europe: tax burden in most countries here is ludicrous (http://www.forbes.com/global/2009/0413/034-tax-misery-reform-index.html), even compared to Brazil. Getting a work permit is very difficult, but that's the case in most of the Western world.

And we get the same treatment at the border as you when bringing in expensive equipment - speaking from bitter experience.

LOL

Thanks feppe  Well, I have decent glass for what I shoot, a really good prime Macro and the 24-70L when I need something for portraits. Enough lights, enough everything.

I'd love Full Frame, and the decision really is to buy a camera people won't bug me to upgrade again, for at least, say... five years. It's already killing me to have my work rejected not for quality, but really, because of 2 megapixels  

PS: I know taxes in Europe are killer, but at least you get your money back in terms of social services. You have decent healthcare, decent police, and decent everything. It may not look that way on a daily basis, but really, compared to here, you'd be shocked we have hospitals with problem of being constantly flooded by sewer water if it just rains a few days in a row. Hospitals :| What's cruel about things here, is that you pay taxes like in Europe, and get services from the state like, maybe, Uganda :| The idea to move is appealing to places such as Australia, tho, some good friends there
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 05:22:30 pm
Quote from: k bennett
As a working professional, your camera should meet your clients' needs and pay for itself over time. Your 40D isn't doing that right now, since you say that your files are being rejected by an agency.

If the 5D Mark II will meet your needs, and you'll make enough additional income to cover the cost over the course of the next year or so, then it's a good investment. It doesn't matter that a Mark III is on the horizon somewhere -- that's *always* true, no matter when we buy new gear.

In any case, if I had to guess, I would say that Canon won't release a 5D Mark III until many months after the 1Ds Mark IV comes out. But that's a wild guess on my part, based on logical marketing decisions, and Canon has a history of surprising us.

Thanks. The main drive to wait, really is because I honestly want to be able not to replace the next camera for at least, some four to five years, really  It already bothers me much to see my work being rejected by an agency, because of 2Mp, that I even considered getting a simple Rebel, just so I can reach 12Mp, but I think there's a lot more to imaging than the Mp count, and if I have to upgrade, I'm gonna look for a real one, to be left alone for quite a while.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 05:28:39 pm
Quote from: Wolfman
I believe it would be wise to get the 5D2 now.... as everybody has said Canon's history shows that a 5D3 won't be along very soon... a 1Ds4 maybe at Photokina, but the price will be high.... you won't go wrong with the 5D2 even if a 5D3 does surprise us and come a little sooner..... wait for Photokina announcements as people have suggested... you can drive yourself crazy guessing when the next big thing is coming.... the 5D2 will fill all the needs you have mentioned.

True. I never meant the 5DMk2 isn't a good camera. One consideration I have, is if a 5Dmk3 will have such a high MP count, that pixel density will outresolve the lenses I have, which would make the 5Dmk2 more appealing, to be honest. But I'd love a 24Mp Mk3. ANyway, the 5DMk2 is a very sweet camera, and would solve all my problems, really. But, like I said, I'm upgrading to a camera I don't want to have to replace, for at least, some 4 years.

To be honest, I sometimes hate the fact I chose the 40D instead of dishing out just a bit more money, and getting the 5DMk1 back then. I'd be in a sweet spot right now and in no feeling of need to upgrade, because, 12Mp is the lower end of the sweet spot zone. But it is still within what most editors and agencies consider a good resolution. Sucks to have your work turned down because of 2 mp in the count :|
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Chairman Bill on July 19, 2010, 05:39:08 pm
Get the MkII now. I went from a Nikon D200 to a D700 & the difference is staggering. You should see an even greater difference with the 5DmkII. I'd love to have a D3x sensor in a D700-type body (if such a thing ever materialises), but waiting would just leave me shooting well below the standard I'm getting now.

Get the mkII, sell more images, earn more money, be able to afford a 5DmkIV when it comes out!
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: mcbroomf on July 19, 2010, 07:01:37 pm
Following these trends it is likely to be well into 2011 before the 5d3 pops up.
http://www.pbase.com/mike_broomfield/image/121844671 (http://www.pbase.com/mike_broomfield/image/121844671)

It does seem like you need something now, so have you thought about getting one of the last 2 Rebels to tide you over... 15 or 18MP, then keep it as a backup when you get the 5d3.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 19, 2010, 08:02:05 pm
Quote from: mcbroomf
Following these trends it is likely to be well into 2011 before the 5d3 pops up.
http://www.pbase.com/mike_broomfield/image/121844671 (http://www.pbase.com/mike_broomfield/image/121844671)

It does seem like you need something now, so have you thought about getting one of the last 2 Rebels to tide you over... 15 or 18MP, then keep it as a backup when you get the 5d3.

Thanks, but it's much more than the MP count. The decision behind moving to the 5D involves also moving towards full frame photography, and the quality of color and contrast I can get while doing food photography. To be totally honest, I never did really like how the 40D captured food. Even with calibration and everything, I always had the nagging feeling my old 300D performed a bit better regarding color and gradients than the 40D.

I guess I'll just wait till I get the money in a month or two, and wait Photokina to end. If there's no Mk3 by then, Canon won't release a new camera, which will be a huge impact, without the help promoted by the biggest photo even around. Otherwise, they may just wait for next year's CES.

Thanks everyone for your, sometimes biased, usually sound, suggestions and help on this decision making  And thank you for not making it implicit I'm untalented and a bad photographer for the sheer mention I'm seeking advice regarding a camera upgrade, or mentioning I feel I need one :|
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Wolfman on July 19, 2010, 08:15:44 pm
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
True. I never meant the 5DMk2 isn't a good camera. One consideration I have, is if a 5Dmk3 will have such a high MP count, that pixel density will outresolve the lenses I have, which would make the 5Dmk2 more appealing, to be honest. But I'd love a 24Mp Mk3. ANyway, the 5DMk2 is a very sweet camera, and would solve all my problems, really. But, like I said, I'm upgrading to a camera I don't want to have to replace, for at least, some 4 years.

To be honest, I sometimes hate the fact I chose the 40D instead of dishing out just a bit more money, and getting the 5DMk1 back then. I'd be in a sweet spot right now and in no feeling of need to upgrade, because, 12Mp is the lower end of the sweet spot zone. But it is still within what most editors and agencies consider a good resolution. Sucks to have your work turned down because of 2 mp in the count :|

If your 2 pixels short of the minimum, then 21 megapixels with the 5D2 should cover it with room to spare for even higher resolution expectations.... go for it !!
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on July 19, 2010, 08:16:20 pm
I would get a 5DII now and expect to be happy for several years.

I started with a 10D and then moved to a 5D because the 10D's viewfinder image was so tiny. I love my 5D. The 12.8 MP is just enough for anything I do. I would love to get a 5DII, but my original 5D is only three years old, so I'll probably wait for the 5DIII (or else buy a 5DII when the 5DIII comes out, because prices will drop.)

Eric

Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on July 20, 2010, 04:18:28 am
Indeed, if you need the caemra now, buy the camera now. It will suffice for your needs for many years in terms of submitting work to clients and agencies. The image quality is very good, as you already know. The camera is perfect for your application (food photography), you are not going to shoot sports or action, so the AF inthe 5D MKII is more than enough for you.

I agree with others, it is not very likely that we will see Canon launching two full frame cameras this fall; and the 1DS series update will come first, almost for sure.

Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Plekto on July 20, 2010, 04:30:00 am
I'm in favor for the Sony myself, if only because it's newer(better software and features) and priced very nicely compared to the current Canon.  Especially when you consider the used lenses that you can get for a bit less money (on average)  You have to also remember that when the MK3 comes out, it will be priced at absurd levels that will make the entire discussion meaningless.

And, to be honest, 20MP is already equivalent to 645 film and a good scanner.  You really don't need more than that as it is.

Of course, if you have a large set of Canon FF compatible lenses already, you're best off with the Canon.  But from what it looks like, you're looking at new lenses since the 40D isn't full-frame.  So less expensive is a factor to be considered, IMO.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 20, 2010, 05:11:53 am
Quote from: Plekto
I'm in favor for the Sony myself, if only because it's newer(better software and features) and priced very nicely compared to the current Canon.  Especially when you consider the used lenses that you can get for a bit less money (on average)  You have to also remember that when the MK3 comes out, it will be priced at absurd levels that will make the entire discussion meaningless.

And, to be honest, 20MP is already equivalent to 645 film and a good scanner.  You really don't need more than that as it is.

Of course, if you have a large set of Canon FF compatible lenses already, you're best off with the Canon.  But from what it looks like, you're looking at new lenses since the 40D isn't full-frame.  So less expensive is a factor to be considered, IMO.
Always bought my lenses with FF in mine, I have only one EF-S lens, the kit one that came with my old 300D. To be honest, I think the whole EF-S label is just a waste of time Canon is throwing on users. I mean, who would want to have to stop using a lens you like when moving up the ladder? :|
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on July 20, 2010, 06:33:51 am
Hi,

Definitively not untalented, I would say, after seeing your pictures on your homepage.

I have written a liitle on the issue (I don't know if that's any help):
http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.ph...need-full-frame (http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/37-do-you-really-need-full-frame)
http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.ph...xels-do-we-need (http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/24-how-many-megapixels-do-we-need)

Best regards
Erik




Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
Thanks everyone for your, sometimes biased, usually sound, suggestions and help on this decision making  And thank you for not making it implicit I'm untalented and a bad photographer for the sheer mention I'm seeking advice regarding a camera upgrade, or mentioning I feel I need one :
|
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 20, 2010, 10:24:27 am
Quote from: ErikKaffehr
Hi,

Definitively not untalented, I would say, after seeing your pictures on your homepage.

I have written a liitle on the issue (I don't know if that's any help):
http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.ph...need-full-frame (http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/37-do-you-really-need-full-frame)
http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.ph...xels-do-we-need (http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/24-how-many-megapixels-do-we-need)

Best regards
Erik

Thanks Erik, thank you for your kind words. I think Full Frame is something people who need the "extra reach" of a tele could stay away from. I know photojournalists who saved much on extension tubes and teles, just due to the advent of crop sensors. That "extra reach" does make a difference. And the 40D is a great camera for photojournalists even today. But it's that same discussion of shooting RAW or JPEG. There are good reasons to shoot JPEG. It's not because in my line of work, RAW offers many advantages, that I won't acknowledge that in other areas, it can come in very handy. I have a friend who had an art expo in Paris, who shoots basically, JPEG. She likes the "registered and carved in stone as in film", so, she shoots black and white JPEG only. And she's a GREAT photographer (google Fernanda Pennachia . Some of her work can be seen here - http://br.olhares.com/Kuca (http://br.olhares.com/Kuca) - and here - http://fernandapennachia.blogspot.com/2009...eus-vales.html) (http://fernandapennachia.blogspot.com/2009/06/as-largas-do-sumidouro-seus-vales.html)).

In my turn, my work is mostly editorial work, and always up close. Also, I love vignetting and other things that come with full frame photography. And the 21Mp would allow me to reach for advertisement work, without having to rent a camera. I just wish I had the money right now, LOL  Sometimes it seems those unexpected expenses always happen when you can't take them
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on July 20, 2010, 02:05:55 pm
Jessica,

Those "kind words" are well deserved.

I'd just add my own experience. I'm only shooting for pleasure, so I don't have any customer to care about. I was using APS-C cameras until December 2008 when I got my first full frame DSLR. Nowdays I use the full frame DSLR (in my case Sony Alpha 900) almost exclusively. I carry the old APS-C camera as backup, but I also use it sometimes when shooting on the street. The Alpha 900 with 24-70/2.8 is a bit to big for that.

My experience is that the APS-C was perfectly good enough for A2. Although the files from the Alpha 900 are much "better" the difference in A2 isn't that big. Many authors feel that 12 MPixel or so are quite enough. Now, as a professional photographer you of course need to care about customers, who are per definition always right.

Sorry to hear that prices are that high in Brazil. I have two colleagues coming from Brazil and both are very nice. And of course there was the late Ayrton Senna and Rubens Barichello.

Best regards
Erik



Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
Thanks Erik, thank you for your kind words. I think Full Frame is something people who need the "extra reach" of a tele could stay away from. I know photojournalists who saved much on extension tubes and teles, just due to the advent of crop sensors. That "extra reach" does make a difference. And the 40D is a great camera for photojournalists even today. But it's that same discussion of shooting RAW or JPEG. There are good reasons to shoot JPEG. It's not because in my line of work, RAW offers many advantages, that I won't acknowledge that in other areas, it can come in very handy. I have a friend who had an art expo in Paris, who shoots basically, JPEG. She likes the "registered and carved in stone as in film", so, she shoots black and white JPEG only. And she's a GREAT photographer (google Fernanda Pennachia . Some of her work can be seen here - http://br.olhares.com/Kuca (http://br.olhares.com/Kuca) - and here - http://fernandapennachia.blogspot.com/2009...eus-vales.html) (http://fernandapennachia.blogspot.com/2009/06/as-largas-do-sumidouro-seus-vales.html)).

In my turn, my work is mostly editorial work, and always up close. Also, I love vignetting and other things that come with full frame photography. And the 21Mp would allow me to reach for advertisement work, without having to rent a camera. I just wish I had the money right now, LOL  Sometimes it seems those unexpected expenses always happen when you can't take them
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: Wayne Fox on July 20, 2010, 07:17:03 pm
IMHO, considering the 1DsMark4 is still in the rumored category,  the 5DMk3 may be a ways out.  They'll put the new sensor/firmware technology in the high end body, then roll it down the line.  I wouldn't expect a new 5d until 6 months or more after the 1Ds4.  At least, that's their SOP.

On the other hand, maybe they won't even make a 1Ds4.  It's been rumored for so long and is typically introduced not long after it's smaller sibling.  The 1DMk4 has been around for quite a while now (announced last october, shipping since December) and still nothing but rumors and speculation of the 1Dsmk4.

Whether to wait or not?  No one can say.  the current 5d is a great camera for many things with plenty of resolution.  Guess it depends on what you shoot and how large you want to make it.  I know many that are still shooting the original 5D's and are delighted - still haven't sold them an upgrade.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: aaykay on July 21, 2010, 12:48:13 am
I doubt a 5DIII will be announced anytime soon, let alone during the upcoming Photokina.  However, I do think a 1DSMKIV might very well be announced, especially since it is Photokina.   So if you want the 5DII, this is as good as any other time to pick one up.

Due to lack of competition, Canon sat on the older 5DI for 3 whole years before announcing a replacement, which in turn was prompted by Sony's announcement of their Full-frame A900.  I personally shoot with the A900 (24.6MP sensor, 100% Viewfinder and 5FPS)....and they have the cheaper A850 (24.6MP, 98% viewfinder and 3FPS) too, at this point.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: NigelC on July 21, 2010, 02:29:56 am
I have just bought 5D2 for 1600 in UK and expect to get 700+ for my 4 yr old 5D body, net cost of <900. Had I done this 18 months ago, I would have paid 2100ish and got only about 100 more for 5D, so yes it is a good time. OTOH, if I was to wait for the 5D Mk3 which will probably surface sometime between February and September 2011, that will be well over 2000 on launch and probably won't settle to current 5D2 prices for another 18 months, say late 2012, when my original 5D will be almost worthless. Overall then I thought it was optimum time to upgrade - however, pricing policies in Brazil may be somewhat different.

Of course 5D3 may have some of the features of 7D, particularly improved AF tracking of moving subjects ( reportedly), but to put things in perspective, it wasn't that long ago I was having to do that manually with T90.
I have 2 thoughts about the 5D2 - a) what an incredible package for 1600, and  what a good camera the original 5D still is.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: PatrikR on July 21, 2010, 03:26:32 am
If Canon announces 5DM3 at Photokina this september and will be able to deliver it pretty soon, there will be plenty of used and little used 5DM2 available. I would wait and see. Well actually I am...

I need a 5DM2 for a project where the chance is that it well get totally destroyed so the less money I have to spend the better.

By the way Jessica if you would buy it from Europe you can get the VAT back. Some camera stores have the TAX FREE sign posted on their doors meaning that the tax officials would give you the 19-25% of VAT back at the airport. So a 2000 eur 5DM2 would cost you only around 1600 euros.

I can deduct the VAT on any purchase I make for my business anyway. I dont know the brasilian tax laws but I would imagine that business could.

Regards, Patrik
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: KevinA on July 21, 2010, 05:52:22 am
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
Hey everyone,

As I get closer to saving for my much wanted Canon 5DMk2 upgrade ( I currently shoot with a Canon 40D ), I wonder... is the 5DMk2 already past it's optimum buying time? It would be horrible to buy a Mk2 just as a new Mk3 is announced. Or announced a few weeks later on.

So, when do you think a Mk3 will come out? If it will come out. I know gossips are starting to spring here and there, but they have for the past year or so, but anything solid? If you were to take US$4000 of your savings ( how much the 5DMk2 costs in Brazil ) would you buy now, or wait?

Thank you so much for your input and help,

Jessica
Well I just bought a 550D for a specific use, I have done tests now beside my DsmkIII, other than the crop factor the difference in quality is sweet FA. I seriously think buying a handful of 550D's sticking a prime on each and hardly ever exposing the sensor to dust is a viable alternative to another top end 35mm camera. I can't see much advantage of a 5D over a 550D unless you are another one that wants to shoot everything with zero depth of field. The 550D focusses better as well, I thought not having microadjust would be a problem as I have had to adjust all my lenses on the Ds's, but not at all, stuff is probably sharper on the 550D, the 17 - 40 mm definitely is, at last I've seen some sharp pictures from this lens.
A 550D and 90 mm or 45 mm tilt shift would be great for studio products.
If you don't need the full frame, honestly I would save your money get a 550D and a decent lens, or just the lens and stick with what you have or spend the money on a holiday to somewhere interesting to shoot, or some studio gear. The 5D is no better put together either.
These cameras are all to soon junk I would not spend money on them if I did not have to for my work.

Kevin.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: KevinA on July 21, 2010, 05:55:09 am
Quote from: PatrikR
If Canon announces 5DM3 at Photokina this september and will be able to deliver it pretty soon, there will be plenty of used and little used 5DM2 available. I would wait and see. Well actually I am...

I need a 5DM2 for a project where the chance is that it well get totally destroyed so the less money I have to spend the better.


Regards, Patrik

Seriously, try the 550D feels like a toy but delivers, less than half the cost.

Kevin.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 21, 2010, 08:08:41 am
Quote from: KevinA
Seriously, try the 550D feels like a toy but delivers, less than half the cost.

Kevin.
Isn't the 550D a crop sensor camera? Because, One of the main reasons for moving up to the 5DMk2 IS indeed, not only21Mp, which I guess the 550D doesn't have, but also is a Full Frame camera. Considering my line of work, it will have a serious impact, not on my composition or how I shoot, but the bigger sensor alone will give me a better capture of light.

I DID however consider the 550D as a temp replacement. But when you're short on your budget, any temp replacement that costs more than 10% of the final one, is likely to become a permanent fix :| Besides, like I said, I can wait a few months, I'm in no emergency, I'll wait for the Photokina to end, and then, I should have the money, so, I'll make my mind
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: feppe on July 21, 2010, 12:19:03 pm
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
Isn't the 550D a crop sensor camera? Because, One of the main reasons for moving up to the 5DMk2 IS indeed, not only21Mp, which I guess the 550D doesn't have, but also is a Full Frame camera. Considering my line of work, it will have a serious impact, not on my composition or how I shoot, but the bigger sensor alone will give me a better capture of light.

550D is 18MP.

5DII has 2/3 EV advantage over 550D in DR (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/483|0/%28appareil2%29/645|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Canon) at 100 ISO what I assume food is shot at - whether it's worth the price of two L primes is up to you..

I still don't understand the "serious impact" of FF on food photography.

You're right about temp placement becoming permanent. There's a saying that "poor people can't afford to buy cheap stuff," and while I'm not poor that has helped me over the years, and I've been burned almost every time I do go cheap. So I'd urge to get the best camera within your budget, but also taking into account the opportunity cost of forgoing other investments which might have higher ROI.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 21, 2010, 12:53:21 pm
Quote from: feppe
550D is 18MP.

5DII has 2/3 EV advantage over 550D in DR (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/483|0/%28appareil2%29/645|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Canon) at 100 ISO what I assume food is shot at - whether it's worth the price of two L primes is up to you..

I still don't understand the "serious impact" of FF on food photography.

You're right about temp placement becoming permanent. There's a saying that "poor people can't afford to buy cheap stuff," and while I'm not poor that has helped me over the years, and I've been burned almost every time I do go cheap. So I'd urge to get the best camera within your budget, but also taking into account the opportunity cost of forgoing other investments which might have higher ROI.

To be honest, I could get the 550D over the 7D, just for photos. But I really am aiming for the 5Dmk2, the thread was just to see if there was something more concrete behind some rumors, and it seems I can rest, and finish my savings in peace without fear of a bad investment. Not that the 5Dmk2 would become a best investment in case a mk3 came out, but you know what I mean, nobody wants to buy the "old model" a few weeks before a new one is release. The "if only I waited" feeling is pretty hard to shake

I just wrote 10 lines on why I would benefit from the FF, but I erased when I realized they're my own personal reasons. They're personal subjects regarding my work, and needs I find while working. I guess they're real and palpable for me, but someone else will disagree. The same shoe will fit two people in different ways. But thanks for the suggestion. It's appreciated.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: jjj on July 21, 2010, 01:51:26 pm
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
I just wrote 10 lines on why I would benefit from the FF, but I erased when I realized they're my own personal reasons. They're personal subjects regarding my work, and needs I find while working. I guess they're real and palpable for me, but someone else will disagree.
But as it's you buying the camera, then your needs/reasons for wanting FF are more relevant than anyone else's thoughts on subject.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JohnKoerner on July 21, 2010, 03:17:26 pm
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
To be honest, I could get the 550D over the 7D, just for photos. But I really am aiming for the 5Dmk2, the thread was just to see if there was something more concrete behind some rumors, and it seems I can rest, and finish my savings in peace without fear of a bad investment. Not that the 5Dmk2 would become a best investment in case a mk3 came out, but you know what I mean, nobody wants to buy the "old model" a few weeks before a new one is release. The "if only I waited" feeling is pretty hard to shake

I am confused. If you really want FF (but would still consider a top-shelf crop), why on earth would you choose the 550D over the 7D? A friend brought his by and it is a toy by comparison. It can take some nice shots, but not as nice as the 7D, and again it feels like a toy by comparison. As a pro I don't think you would be taken seriously if you brought one.

I still don't understand why a 7D wouldn't work for food photography MUCH better than your existing 40D, while still being within your budget. If you have been making your living with the 40D, and if you can't afford the 5DMkII, then you should make a purchase choice that satisfies your clients and is within your existing budget. It would seem to me that the 7D would be your answer. I had the 50D (let alone the 40D) and it simply does not compare to the 7D. There are also many features in the 7D that are actually far superior to the more expensive 5DMkII.

I agree with one of the posters that if your clients are demanding better resolution, then the best investment you can make into your career is to bring it to them as quickly as possible. If they're 'accepting' your 40D images, they will be noticably delighted with images taken with a 7D. A 7D is a better camera in every way than your 40D, and it is a better camera in every way than a 5DMkII that you cannot afford at this time.

If you do decide to wait for a FF, then the 5DMkIII will be even more expensive ... but during all of that waiting you will be shooting images with a camera that produces images your current clients don't seem to like too much. I would be trying to change this ASAP if I were you.

Good luck and that is my $0.02

Jack



.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on July 21, 2010, 05:06:27 pm
Hi,

Absolutely!

Anyway I'd say that there are real benefits with FF. Size matters in photography, but there is also something called good enough and something else called reasonable cost. For a professional there is something called ROI, return on investment.

I have a friend in a somewhat similar situation, he also wants a full frame but waits for the next model. That can be an endless wait. One disadvantage is that if you want a FF camera you will probably buy full format lenses and they may be less than practical with APS-C. When I shoot APS-C (Sony Alpha 700 in my case) I still put an APS-C lens (16-80/3.5-4.5) on it. On the FF camera I have normally a 24-70/2.8, I have actually never put the 24-70/2.8 on the APS-C camera. Having both lenses is of course a luxury.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: jjj
But as it's you buying the camera, then your needs/reasons for wanting FF are more relevant than anyone else's thoughts on subject.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: feppe on July 21, 2010, 05:14:38 pm
Quote from: JohnKoerner
I am confused. If you really want FF (but would still consider a top-shelf crop), why on earth would you choose the 550D over the 7D? A friend brought his by and it is a toy by comparison. It can take some nice shots, but not as nice as the 7D, and again it feels like a toy by comparison. As a pro I don't think you would be taken seriously if you brought one.

Why not? IQ is essentially identical (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/645|0/%28appareil2%29/619|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Canon), so if one can take good shots with the 7D but not 550D then the problem is behind the camera, not in the gear.

I did extensive comparisons between 50D, 7D and 550D before I got the 550D. The few features where 550D is inferior (max shutter speed, lower FPS, 95% viewfinder coverage) are non-issues for me, and the weight and cost savings made it an easy decision. Of course these can be deal breakers for some. Pretty much the only feature I truly miss is custom user-saved settings. And MLU

If by toy you mean tiny and light, you're right - it's a plus for some. If you refer to "build quality," it's a whole different topic as it's just as subjective and ill-defined as DR. I've traveled to 20+ countries with 30D/450D/550D, and have never had problems. Then again I shoot in pleasant conditions and avoid banging my cameras around.

I appreciate showing up to a big shoot with a 550D can cause chuckles from inexperienced ADs who think a photographer is good because he has a good camera, and can cause inferiority complexes when shooting next to a P65, but as an amateur I don't compare my camera-peen with anyone. If that's what's the motivation, it's like cars and bodybuilding: there's always a bigger car/guy.

And if I ever do need to compare camera-peens, I'll just show up with my TLRs
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: NigelC on July 21, 2010, 06:49:32 pm
[quote name='PatrikR' date='Jul 21 2010, 08:26 AM' post='377474']
If Canon announces 5DM3 at Photokina this september and will be able to deliver it pretty soon, there will be plenty of used and little used 5DM2 available. I would wait and see. Well actually I am...

They won't! - Photokina 2010 for 1Ds4 - they won't steal its thunder (and even sales) with a 5D3 which I think will come early 2011
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JessicaLuchesi on July 21, 2010, 06:58:32 pm
Ok, this thread totally derailed, and is completely OFF topic. And it seems, no matter how many times I say I don't need help picking a model, I just wanted to check about rumors, people still seem to question my decision making regarding my needs and decision, and also, how much I intend to take back from the investment, and how many more doors it may open, when compared to other canon models other than a 1Ds. Or which lenses I already said I own and so on.

So, I'll stop following this thread as of now, please, go on now yet again with "which camera is the best" arguments.

Thanks everyone who helped.

Jessica
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: JohnKoerner on July 21, 2010, 07:08:03 pm
Quote from: feppe
Why not? IQ is essentially identical (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/645|0/%28appareil2%29/619|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Canon), so if one can take good shots with the 7D but not 550D then the problem is behind the camera, not in the gear.
I did extensive comparisons between 50D, 7D and 550D before I got the 550D. The few features where 550D is inferior (max shutter speed, lower FPS, 95% viewfinder coverage) are non-issues for me, and the weight and cost savings made it an easy decision. Of course these can be deal breakers for some. Pretty much the only feature I truly miss is custom user-saved settings. And MLU
If by toy you mean tiny and light, you're right - it's a plus for some. If you refer to "build quality," it's a whole different topic as it's just as subjective and ill-defined as DR. I've traveled to 20+ countries with 30D/450D/550D, and have never had problems. Then again I shoot in pleasant conditions and avoid banging my cameras around.
I appreciate showing up to a big shoot with a 550D can cause chuckles from inexperienced ADs who think a photographer is good because he has a good camera, and can cause inferiority complexes when shooting next to a P65, but as an amateur I don't compare my camera-peen with anyone. If that's what's the motivation, it's like cars and bodybuilding: there's always a bigger car/guy.
And if I ever do need to compare camera-peens, I'll just show up with my TLRs


It could have been his lenses, Feppe, I don't know, but his macro shots were not compelling at all, nor were most of the others. Essentially, I was glad I bought my 7D when I saw his camera in person, and compared it (and the results) with mine, but I did not conduct an "extensive comparison." But the lesser features you mention (esp. 95% viewfinder) are an absolotue annoyance to me, truthfully, and I would imagine this inequity could ruin many kinds of shot.

Still, to each his own, and I am sure Jessica's choice will be based on her own preferences, as were yours, and as were mine.

Thanks for providing the link BTW,

Jack



.
Title: Canon 5DMk2 - Buy or Wait?
Post by: KevinA on July 22, 2010, 03:10:15 am
Quote from: JessicaLuchesi
Ok, this thread totally derailed, and is completely OFF topic. And it seems, no matter how many times I say I don't need help picking a model, I just wanted to check about rumors, people still seem to question my decision making regarding my needs and decision, and also, how much I intend to take back from the investment, and how many more doors it may open, when compared to other canon models other than a 1Ds. Or which lenses I already said I own and so on.

So, I'll stop following this thread as of now, please, go on now yet again with "which camera is the best" arguments.

Thanks everyone who helped.

Jessica

It's not derailed really, cost is a major concern for you. I've used a 5DmkII on a couple of jobs and everyday I use  1DsmkIII's on jobs, it's how I pay the bills. Quite honestly I'm wondering where the extra money goes on these beasts, I would like to say build quality but as all my Ds's have had several trips back to Canon for various reasons, both have had at least one new shutter each well before time, I find "build quality' a questionable feature. You would have to do some serious investigation to find a quality gap between pictures taken on a 550D and big Canons, even then I don't know which way that would fall. Knowing what I know now from using them I would rather have 3 550D's and the extra money in the bank. If I needed tilt shift for Architecture it would be different.
No one knows here what Canon plan on doing with their camera range, there might never be a 5DmkIII, we can only make worthwhile comments on what actually is and not might be at some point.
A 5D will be a great camera and will earn it's keep regardless of any new model, so get one.

Kevin.