Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: DMT on July 16, 2010, 11:48:09 pm
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I use both Mac and XP computers, but have done all my printing from Windows using Qimage (color management off on the Epson 3800) with perfect results. Need to do package printing in LR from my MacBook Pro on location, but with LR 2/3 (and CS 4/5) it's not possible to turn off color management (as has been discussed here at length). I've Googled the subject and just can't find a solution *at all*. Wouldn't mind printing to my 7800 from the Mac as well (trying to be fully emancipated from Windoze).
How do I print from LR on the Mac? My output looks like *crap*, and I refuse to load XP on my brand new (still unopened in its box) MBP (have been running XP/Qimage on my two year old MBP to make prints on location). It blows my mind that this situation exists. Unbelievable.
Plan on calling Adobe, Epson and Ink Jet Art on Monday but am hoping for guidance here, since this is (apparently) a hot topic for others as well.
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How do I print from LR on the Mac? My output looks like *crap*, and I refuse to load XP on my brand new (still unopened in its box) MBP (have been running XP/Qimage on my two year old MBP to make prints on location). It blows my mind that this situation exists.
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Please, could explain what "crap" means? Are the colors way off or sharpeness is not what you expected.
FWIT, I've been printing from a Mac running Snow Leopard on a 3800 with no issue (except a few head-strikes with heavy papers).
You might want to visit Eric Chan's website (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/index.html). It's full of useful information on printing with the Epson 3800. Eric (madmanchan) (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showuser=11048)is) is also a frequent poster on this forum…
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Francois's advice to look at Eric's site is great advice but I'd like to mention that LR prints to Epson printers on Mac OS X just fine.
You just have a few issues to work out.
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Please make sure you have the latest Snow Leopard update and have the latest printer drivers installed as well. Earlier OS/driver revisions had some issues with getting correctly color-managed output.
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The prints are too light and magenta...they look double profiled to me.
Mac OSX 10.5.8, LR3, Epson "Common Updater v7.0" and "Printer Driver v6.11" installed yesterday. After installation the lined-out options in the Epson printer dialogue disappeared; this would seem to be what is being referenced here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml)
Both the canned Epson paper profile and the custom profile I installed look crappy (rendering intent is perceptual). I'm calibrated using a Color Munki.
To make it amusing, I ran disk utility, repaired permissions and rebooted. Now when I try to print the printer shows up (it's the only one installed on this Mac) and the job is queued, but status is "stopped". When I click on resume now I get "Operation Could not be completed. client-error-not-possible". That's nice. Deleting and resending the job had the same results.
Y'all are gonna tell me to update to Snow Leopard, I'll bet. Can't do this until Monday at the soonest due to client work. I'm so busy I have a brand new MBP unopened in a box, and so will have two Macs to test from.
The point is that the quality was poor both before and after driver updates, and *now* I can't seem to print at all. I can run XP on this Mac and print just fine.
Any further steering and assistance is appreciated.
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If you had features that were lined out it sounds like you had the gimp driver loaded. If the epson is the only printer on your system why don't you reset the printing system and load the driver again. Make sure you are loading the epson driver and not the gimp driver. The epson driver will say "printer settings" or something similar where the gimp driver will say "printer features". Features being the key word that you have the gimp driver loaded. To reset the printer go to the apple/system prefrences/print and fax window. Hold the control key down while you click on your printer icon and reset. Then load the driver.
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Great, I'll try this. It was not the "Gutenprint" driver, if that's what you mean by "gimp". Details: http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support...amp;foid=101455 (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=FAQ&oid=79928&prodoid=63062509&foid=101455)
Not to sound like a noob, but what is the best way to uninstall, delete and fully purge everything-Epson before reloading the drivers totally fresh? Have only been using Mac a couple years and am still a little fuzzy on some operational housecleaning like this. I do have "Clean My Mac" installed.
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Go to the hard drive/library/printer/epson and dump the whole folder.
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Going back a stage, just wondering if you've done much printing from a mac having read your first post? When I first switched I struggled with the same thing. When printing, the mac dialog box has a bar in the middle which might say "paper settings" or "cover page" or something, this bar has a triangle it which if you click gives various options, one of which is colour handling - this is where you can switch colour management off. Hope this helps.
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If you had features that were lined out it sounds like you had the gimp driver loaded. If the epson is the only printer on your system why don't you reset the printing system and load the driver again. Make sure you are loading the epson driver and not the gimp driver. The epson driver will say "printer settings" or something similar where the gimp driver will say "printer features". Features being the key word that you have the gimp driver loaded. To reset the printer go to the apple/system prefrences/print and fax window. Hold the control key down while you click on your printer icon and reset. Then load the driver.
If you have features lined out you have a non 64bit compliant driver loaded. Run LR in 32bit mode to be able to access the features. You can then save a preset of those driver settings and you can then use that preset if you want to run LR in 64bit mode.
Doyle
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The prints are too light and magenta...they look double profiled to me.
Mac OSX 10.5.8, LR3, Epson "Common Updater v7.0" and "Printer Driver v6.11" installed yesterday. After installation the lined-out options in the Epson printer dialogue disappeared; this would seem to be what is being referenced here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml)
Both the canned Epson paper profile and the custom profile I installed look crappy (rendering intent is perceptual). I'm calibrated using a Color Munki.
To make it amusing, I ran disk utility, repaired permissions and rebooted. Now when I try to print the printer shows up (it's the only one installed on this Mac) and the job is queued, but status is "stopped". When I click on resume now I get "Operation Could not be completed. client-error-not-possible". That's nice. Deleting and resending the job had the same results.
Y'all are gonna tell me to update to Snow Leopard, I'll bet. Can't do this until Monday at the soonest due to client work. I'm so busy I have a brand new MBP unopened in a box, and so will have two Macs to test from.
The point is that the quality was poor both before and after driver updates, and *now* I can't seem to print at all. I can run XP on this Mac and print just fine.
Any further steering and assistance is appreciated.
The latest driver is 6.57. You might want to try that, but remove printer from Printer and Faxes and delete the Library/Printers/EPSON folder first before you install 6.57.
http://alturl.com/ua26v (http://alturl.com/ua26v)
Doyle
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Yes, new to printing on the Mac; have been using Qimage Pro in XP (both inside the Mac and on native XP computers) to print for years. I do a lot of client work where I need to produce print packages, and also have gotten very close color/density matching with Qimage. Furthermore, I encountered prints coming out about 10% too dark with CS3/4, which is another known issue (unrelated).
I'm trying to migrate to a 100% Mac environment, and package printing from LR3 is mission-critical.
The printer dialog box that tommm refers to initially showed the desired Epson options when the middle line was expanded...but they had a line through them. Installing the new drivers simply removed the desired options (which provide access to "No color management") entirely. Repairing permissions and reboot led to a total inability to print.
I haven't had time to try the suggested maintenance from there due to deadline editing work, but *definitely* will and I'll report the results. My only question at this stage is: by purging and reloading the drivers, can this Mac remain in 10.5.8 or must I update to Snow Leopard as well? If so, that will delay my attempts to establish functionality as finishing client jobs has priority, and then I might as well try it on the new MBP anyway (which has a pristine environment).
This is all very helpful...thanks.
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There is no reason why you cannot stay with 10.5.8.
Doyle
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It's funny: the only reason I *haven't* updated this Mac's OS is *precisely* because I had heard there were issues with the Epson drivers LOL...
Looks like I'm in that boat anyway.
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It's funny: the only reason I *haven't* updated this Mac's OS is *precisely* because I had heard there were issues with the Epson drivers LOL...
Looks like I'm in that boat anyway.
You might want to read this.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=34780559 (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1017&message=34780559)
Doyle
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I use both Mac and XP computers, but have done all my printing from Windows using Qimage (color management off on the Epson 3800) with perfect results. Need to do package printing in LR from my MacBook Pro on location, but with LR 2/3 (and CS 4/5) it's not possible to turn off color management (as has been discussed here at length). I've Googled the subject and just can't find a solution *at all*. Wouldn't mind printing to my 7800 from the Mac as well (trying to be fully emancipated from Windoze).
How do I print from LR on the Mac? My output looks like *crap*, and I refuse to load XP on my brand new (still unopened in its box) MBP (have been running XP/Qimage on my two year old MBP to make prints on location). It blows my mind that this situation exists. Unbelievable.
Plan on calling Adobe, Epson and Ink Jet Art on Monday but am hoping for guidance here, since this is (apparently) a hot topic for others as well.
Like others, I can print from LR to my 3800 under both Leopard and Snow Leopard without any trouble (I had some problems with SL initially but they were solved completely by resetting the printing system, as has been suggested).
I suspect we'd find it easier to help if you could post some screen shots. Referring to "lined out" options doesn't help me, for one, very much.
Jeremy
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The options available when expanding the middle line are:
Layout
Paper Handling
Cover Page
Scheduler
Summary
There were four or five more available *before* I updated the drivers, but they all had lines through them (crossing them out).
Again, I will not have time to "reset" the printing system until tomorrow; hammering to get jobs out right now and have a wedding to shoot this evening in three hours. But, again, I very much appreciate any and all ongoing comments, and will definitely post any relevant updates as I work through this.
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You should have "Printer Settings" if you do not, the driver is not loaded correctly. Here is a screen shot[attachment=23200:3800.jpg]
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THAT"S what I want and don't have!!! Will delete and reinstall tomorrow...stay tuned...
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Ok, sorry I just wanted to post it before I left for the evening. Don't reply, I know you are trying to get a job out. Hopefully when you are done you can get the driver straightened out.
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These are the steps I use to print to my 3800 from 10.5.8:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep....html#lightroom (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html#lightroom)
http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...rkflow.html#mac (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/printworkflow.html#mac)
I will be updating to 10.6.4 in a few days but I don't anticipate this will change the workflow.
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OK...I've deleted the Epson folder from the Library and removed the printer from Printers and Faxes.
The download link for the latest driver v6.57 does not work from Epson Europe: http://esupport.epson-europe.com/FileDetai...D&id=323704 (http://esupport.epson-europe.com/FileDetails.aspx?lng=en-GB&data=90NVirE+OTpZIihkjNjKtU002Ff5yAmE6ySHvL2CRLrRpeIU003D&id=323704)
This driver is not available from Epson USA.
Now what?
:0/
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I'm guessing this is because my IP address is in the United States, so Epson Europe is blocking me from downloading...
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Why don't you go to the US site and download the most current driver there. Try either the Common Updater V7 or the one before it. You could also check software update and see if the driver update came down that way. The important thing is to install the correct driver when you go to add it in the print and fax window.
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I read on another forum that the newer driver from Europe was preferable to the one from Epson USA for some reason. Will go ahead with the USA version...
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I'm guessing this is because my IP address is in the United States, so Epson Europe is blocking me from downloading...
It is not blocking mine. Check your PM.
Doyle
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SUCCESS!!!
Color matching is absolutely spot-on, and density is very, very close (maybe 5% too dark). Most people would probably think "good enough" or maybe not even notice, but I'm a fanatic about quality and precision. I have not run monitor calibration in about a month; will have to do that and retest later. Two questions at this stage:
1) My prior experience printing from CS/LR is that prints were slightly dark (about 10%); that's why I was using Qimage in XP (perfect density match). I know many others (both personally and online) that were having the same issue, and Epson/Adobe support blamed each other. In researching my (now resolved) driver issue I came across this same density thing on forums, but have not yet looked at proposed solutions for this that others are using. Assuming that after calibration that my output is still *slightly* dark (but nonetheless better than previously), is anyone else here experiencing this and what are the possible solutions?
2) Presumably I can make accurate color targets for printer calibration using my ColorMunki through LR3 now that color management in the printer can be turned off, correct? If my density is slightly off after monitor calibration this would be the next step.
Color is absolutely *stellar*. You guys have been immensly helpful; I appreciate the feedback.
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Also, I must admit that I have not looked at all the 3800 workflow links provided in this thread; will definitely do my homework now that this thing is actually working and nearly perfect...once I get through my mountain of editing. Just wondering if there is a quick anser on the density thing (assuming it's not my monitor calibration and paper profile).
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One more thing:
In the LR3 print module, if I select a Custom Package and drop 2-5x7s on an 8.5x11 page, is there a way I can move the image to change the location of the crop when the print aspect ratio is different from the image's aspect ratio? This is easily done in Qimage.
In other words, it looks like you have to first crop the image (or make a virtual copy and crop) to the desired aspect ration for the print, then select that matching ratio for the print size you are creating if you want the image cropped precisely to your liking.
Is there any way around this in LR? It's an extra step that is not good for event photography printing on deadline with the client right there waiting...
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Also, regarding print density and monitor accuracy: I know for a fact that my monitors calibrate properly on multiple machines. The same files that have printed dark using CS in the past not only have printed properly in Qimage, but a number of those same images (unaltered except for CMYK conversion) have published with perfect density in magazines. I also did not have this problem using CS2 and older versions of the program.
Apparently, the "Transfer Curve" can be adjusted in CS3+ (I did a quick Google search); can this be done in LR? Details: http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support...amp;foid=164015 (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=FAQ&oid=79928&prodoid=63062509&foid=164015)
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Also, regarding print density and monitor accuracy: I know for a fact that my monitors calibrate properly on multiple machines. The same files that have printed dark using CS in the past not only have printed properly in Qimage, but a number of those same images (unaltered except for CMYK conversion) have published with perfect density in magazines. I also did not have this problem using CS2 and older versions of the program.
Apparently, the "Transfer Curve" can be adjusted in CS3+ (I did a quick Google search); can this be done in LR? Details: http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support...amp;foid=164015 (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=FAQ&oid=79928&prodoid=63062509&foid=164015)
I am going to assume you are now using the 6.57 version driver even though you have not bothered to reply.
Doyle
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Sorry that wasn't clear in my multiple replies above...I had success with (USA) driver v6.11 and common updater v7.0 after purging everything Epson from the system.
The link to the European driver works for me now...is there a compelling reason to install it?
Have not progressed further researching my follow-up questions, but I have to produce several print orders this afternoon and so will be able to bring more attention to bear on the final fine-tuning. Again, output is *very* good and I'm sure would be acceptable to most users (95%+ density match). Color is perfect.
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There is no reason to download the European driver when you already have the US driver installed and it is working properly. In fact they should now be the same. People were only trying to download the European driver because it came out sooner than the US Epson website. In fact, even though you ran the V7 updater, it is going to show you still have the 6.11 driver installed. Epson states that in their brief summary of what's happening.
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Great, thanks. Setting up my new MacBook Pro at the moment...will be interesting to compare print output from both MBPs (older one is on Leopard).
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Okay, new MBP is dialed in with programs loaded (not getting orders printed out, though, LOL).
Same result: perfect color, very slightly dark.
Is there ANY WAY to force the printer output to be about 5% lighter and lock that in as a default setting when using LR?
And is there a way to CENTER the image on the page like you can in Windoze? This seems so basic, but I can't get the sliders to center a 10" long image on an 11" long page. So easy when there is check box to "center image". *sigh*
Will need to research this, but any easy answers are appreciated.
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Was able to center (almost perfectly) a 6.654x10 image on an 8.5x11 sheet using "Custom Package" and then fudging the cell height to 9.87". It would be better to get the full 10" when I'm dropping the print into one of my custom, precut mats. Will need to confirm if centering this kind of print can be done with CS5 on the Mac.
This is a pretty clunky print workflow. Still need to read/research. Digging into some 5x7 production in the meantime; at least that's easy.
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Have not yet tried making custom paper profiles from the Mac(s). It would be great if this solved the density issue, but since the current profile was generated using the same methodology (just with a different OS) I'm guessing probably not.
Again, is there any way to adjust the "Transfer Curve" or make any kind of (very minor) output adjustment to print density from LR with everything properly profiled and printer color management turned off (like there is in Qimage)?
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2) Presumably I can make accurate color targets for printer calibration using my ColorMunki through LR3 now that color management in the printer can be turned off, correct? If my density is slightly off after monitor calibration this would be the next step.
You can use a profile you’ve built in ColorMunki in LR but you have to print the target using the Munki software for a number of reasons (one being, LR doesn’t have a No Color Management option).
As for the density, view the print in a number of different lighting environments. Look a tad too dark? OR its just a bit darker than the display? Big difference. If the later, adjust the display luminance lower or raise the print viewing luminance to result in a visual match.
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Yeah, different viewing media (LCD vs print), and amount of ambient light makes a huge difference, of course. I'm aware of all that.
I'd still like to adjust my print output density by 2-4% lighter...and it seems there's no way to do this.
Will have time to create new paper profiles next week; about to jump eyeballs-deep into MotoGP this week...and I still need to edit the wedding I shot. But I'm fully migrated onto the new Mac and print output is very, very good, so I'm mostly there. There other thing is producing print packages they way I want them...and LR seems very limited compared to Qimage. Is there another program (short of getting a RIP) that could run in the Mac environment for professional package printing?
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What is it that LR3 doesn’t provide that you need?
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Aside from the density adjustment thing (which is huge for me), these are my questions at this stage:
1) There seems to be no allowance for adjustment of image area printed when a print crop is applied. If the original aspect ratio is 2:3, an 8x10 cuts the sides equally with no way to "move" the image around in the LR print module; it must first be copied in the Develop module and then the aspect ratio for each cropped print applied to each copy. If you have a single image that needs three or more print sizes (all different aspect ratios), you are bogged down. Now, multiply that by 100 images...just for one event. And when you need to create a web gallery and export the finished files with the original aspect ratio...all on deadline...this is a major problem.
2) There seems to be no way you can easily (or perhaps at all) center images on the page. For example: try dropping a 6.654x10 (native size from the D3 series) image exactly on the center of an 8.5x11 cut sheet. You can't do it without dropping the length less than ten inches, and the procedure is clunky as well. I use precut custom mats for some of my print work, so this is a real issue. This is easy to do in Windoze (although I have not tried to do it from LR in XP). I think this issue was discussed here years ago at some point.
Suggestions?
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1) There seems to be no allowance for adjustment of image area printed when a print crop is applied. If the original aspect ratio is 2:3, an 8x10 cuts the sides equally with no way to "move" the image around in the LR print module; it must first be copied in the Develop module and then the aspect ratio for each cropped print applied to each copy. If you have a single image that needs three or more print sizes (all different aspect ratios), you are bogged down. Now, multiply that by 100 images...just for one event. And when you need to create a web gallery and export the finished files with the original aspect ratio...all on deadline...this is a major problem.
2) There seems to be no way you can easily (or perhaps at all) center images on the page. For example: try dropping a 6.654x10 (native size from the D3 series) image exactly on the center of an 8.5x11 cut sheet. You can't do it without dropping the length less than ten inches, and the procedure is clunky as well. I use precut custom mats for some of my print work, so this is a real issue. This is easy to do in Windoze.
1. If I understand you, once you crop the image into a size within the print template in Custom Package, you can move it around within those boundaries. You have to turn off “Lock to Photo Aspect Ratio“. Then move the boundary box the size you wish. Command/Control drag inside to move the image about to “crop” it to the boundaries of this cell. So you can make the cell first and season to taste moving the photo around to fit that aspect ratio.
2. Should be able to center an image. If you want to resize an existing cell, holding down the Shift key while resizing the bounding box will constrain the ratio of the cell, and holding down Alt/Option resizes from the center point instead of the corner.
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#1: Perfect! That's what I wanted!
#2: Still not able to center perfectly. Image edge at top of screen is slightly too close to paper edge (6.654x10 on 8.5x11). Need image to remain at 10'' long dimension; if I shorten it, it works.
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Congrats on your SUCCESS. This thread went on for a long time and I lost track of the steps that you went through in order to finally declare SUCCESS. I have the same problem with SL/LR3/Epson - dark and colour cast prints as you and many others, although I am using a different printer than you (Epson stylus R300). When you have a chance, could you please summarize the steps you followed. The rest of us frustrated printers will be much obliged. Thanks.