Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: CBarrett on June 20, 2010, 04:01:03 pm
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Just spent two days shooting and used the new 43 with the Rm3d on 80% of the shots. Have I mentioned that 45mm is my favorite focal length on the P65+?
The new Schneider is nothing short of stellar! It has excellent depth of field and sharpness that allowed 20mm of movement with ease. I'll get some samples up this evening. This lens was so worth the wait.
CB
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Just spent two days shooting and used the new 43 with the Rm3d on 80% of the shots. Have I mentioned that 45mm is my favorite focal length on the P65+?
The new Schneider is nothing short of stellar! It has excellent depth of field and sharpness that allowed 20mm of movement with ease. I'll get some samples up this evening. This lens was so worth the wait.
CB
Chris
Congrats for your new WA lens , the SCHNEIDER 43mm .
You report a 20mm movement for that lens .
Do you then do an additional WB shot ? ? ? to avoid color casts ? ? ?
Using the RODENSTOCK HR DIGARON S 4,5/28mm , I receive a visible magenta cast on the one side and a cyan cast on the other side when using the CFV-39 back .
I can get rid of that using PSCS , but it means additional work .
Jürgen
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Chris
Congrats for your new WA lens , the SCHNEIDER 43mm .
You report a 20mm movement for that lens .
Do you then do an additional WB shot ? ? ? to avoid color casts ? ? ?
Using the RODENSTOCK HR DIGARON S 4,5/28mm , I receive a visible magenta cast on the one side and a cyan cast on the other side when using the CFV-39 back .
I can get rid of that using PSCS , but it means additional work .
Jürgen
Simple color cast correction.
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Simple color cast correction.
Christopher
Can you please explain that in more detail ? ? ?
I do not want to remove magenta and cyan from all over the image .
I am using PHOCUS 2.5 , but don't see , what you mean by simple color cast correction .
Jürgen
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Christopher
Can you please explain that in more detail ? ? ?
I do not want to remove magenta and cyan from all over the image .
I am using PHOCUS 2.5 , but don't see , what you mean by simple color cast correction .
Jürgen
Well I'm shooting often shifted to 15mm or more and the only way to get a good image, without spending to much time in PS is simple to shoot a second white photo, which one can use for a LCC (color cast) correction in Capture one. I have no clue about Phocus, but I expect something similar in there. It is a great and simple way, to remove all color casts which came from shifting the back or lens in the first place.
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Well I'm shooting often shifted to 15mm or more and the only way to get a good image, without spending to much time in PS is simple to shoot a second white photo, which one can use for a LCC (color cast) correction in Capture one. I have no clue about Phocus, but I expect something similar in there. It is a great and simple way, to remove all color casts which came from shifting the back or lens in the first place.
Same here. No experience with Phocus, but in C1 Pro an LCC shot is part of every bracket, takes out all the color shift. I use it as well for vignetting but not always at 100%.
-CB
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Same here. No experience with Phocus, but in C1 Pro an LCC shot is part of every bracket, takes out all the color shift. I use it as well for vignetting but not always at 100%.
-CB
If I may ask, how do you do that white shot? Do you hold an opaque plate in front of the lens or do you use an expodisc?
Regards
Paul
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If I may ask, how do you do that white shot? Do you hold an opaque plate in front of the lens or do you use an expodisc?
Regards
Paul
Phase One sells a white plastic card, which is made for that purpose. ( I think you get it when buying the larger package )
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Phase One sells a white plastic card, which is made for that purpose. ( I think you get it when buying the larger package )
Right, I started using an Expodisc just because I find it more convenient. Both work fine. We use these to create a capture once you've finalized camera movements and then in Capture 1 Pro you create a calibration profile that is applied to the Raw prior to processing.
I would assume Phocus has the same functionality for tech cameras?
-CB
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Right, I started using an Expodisc just because I find it more convenient. Both work fine. We use these to create a capture once you've finalized camera movements and then in Capture 1 Pro you create a calibration profile that is applied to the Raw prior to processing.
I would assume Phocus has the same functionality for tech cameras?
-CB
Yes, Phocus has this function, as well.
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Just spent two days shooting and used the new 43 with the Rm3d on 80% of the shots. Have I mentioned that 45mm is my favorite focal length on the P65+?
The new Schneider is nothing short of stellar! It has excellent depth of field and sharpness that allowed 20mm of movement with ease. I'll get some samples up this evening. This lens was so worth the wait.
CB
How do you find the light fall-off? How about sharpness fall-off? (If you don't have measured results a comparison with other lenses would be useful (particularly the Rodenstock HRW series). Cheers.
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Right, I started using an Expodisc just because I find it more convenient. Both work fine. We use these to create a capture once you've finalized camera movements and then in Capture 1 Pro you create a calibration profile that is applied to the Raw prior to processing.
I would assume Phocus has the same functionality for tech cameras?
-CB
Yes . Ok .
I am using an EXPODISK as well . That was my question , when I asked , if you are doing an additional WB shot .
I do not always perform that WB shot (as I call it) , especially not , when there is no shift required or the lens is not a WA lens .
In PHOCUS , this color correction function is called "scene correction" and it removes the described color cast almost a 100% .
Thanks guys , now I am with you again .
Regards Jürgen
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Chris, I love the subject description. Are you originally from Massachusetts? Sounds like it wicked bad!
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Chris, I love the subject description. Are you originally from Massachusetts? Sounds like it wicked bad!
Hahahaha! I have family there in Winchendon and everything is always 'Wicked bad' or 'Wicked good'.... i've even heard that in the winter it gets 'Wicked cold'.
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Hahahaha! I have family there in Winchendon and everything is always 'Wicked bad' or 'Wicked good'.... i've even heard that in the winter it gets 'Wicked cold'.
I grew up in Acton Mass, we always used "Wicked Cool"
Marc
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Right, I started using an Expodisc just because I find it more convenient. Both work fine. We use these to create a capture once you've finalized camera movements and then in Capture 1 Pro you create a calibration profile that is applied to the Raw prior to processing.
I would assume Phocus has the same functionality for tech cameras?
-CB
Chris
Are you taking a WB shot for each stitch position or just one WB shot for all , for example , of the center image of your stitches ???
Jürgen
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You must take a white card (LCC) calibration from every position of the stitch.
You should make one for every bracket at every stitch position to be clear.
Some people try and make a set of LCCs in advance at various points of rise/fall/ shift for each lens. I tried this but found that there was also variation for the lighting condition.
The LCC has no effect on sharpness, however, with wider lenses like the 35mm and the 24mm where fall of is huge, centre filters should be used otherwise the LCC will rip the edges apart and create noise as it adjust the falloff to match the rest of the image.
m
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Hi, what lens were you using before the 43XL? How does it compare? Cheers Nick
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the prior lens was the Rodenstock Apo Sironar Digi 45. Not great, but not bad for the money. The 43 kicks it's ass while juggling kittens.
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Right, I started using an Expodisc just because I find it more convenient. Both work fine. We use these to create a capture once you've finalized camera movements and then in Capture 1 Pro you create a calibration profile that is applied to the Raw prior to processing.
I would assume Phocus has the same functionality for tech cameras?
-CB
Chris
Are you taking a WB shot for each stitch position or just one WB shot for all , for example , of the center image of your stitches ???
Jürgen
The Expodisc is used for creating the LCCs. You can also use one of them for WB if desired, but an in scene gray card is more accurate, in my experience.
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Just spent two days shooting and used the new 43 with the Rm3d on 80% of the shots. Have I mentioned that 45mm is my favorite focal length on the P65+?
The new Schneider is nothing short of stellar! It has excellent depth of field and sharpness that allowed 20mm of movement with ease. I'll get some samples up this evening. This lens was so worth the wait.
CB
I have the Schneider 47mm (I'm not alone in this:). Not being familiar with the 43mm (not much info on the web that I could find), I was wondering what the 43 has over the 47? Besides a slightly shorter focal length. The 47 is a nice little piece of glass. I especially appreciate the 113mm image circle. Although the light fall off is something to wish was better, but manageable.
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You must take a white card (LCC) calibration from every position of the stitch.
You should make one for every bracket at every stitch position to be clear.
Some people try and make a set of LCCs in advance at various points of rise/fall/ shift for each lens. I tried this but found that there was also variation for the lighting condition.
The LCC has no effect on sharpness, however, with wider lenses like the 35mm and the 24mm where fall of is huge, centre filters should be used otherwise the LCC will rip the edges apart and create noise as it adjust the falloff to match the rest of the image.
m
Thanks Murray
That is what I suspected , but wanted to circumvent . I am using an EXPO disc .
I am still wondering , if I have to take an LCC shot for each stich position , when using a longer focal length .
I have the RODENSTOCK DIGARON-W 90mm , but have not done any stitching with it yet .
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I have the Schneider 47mm (I'm not alone in this:). Not being familiar with the 43mm (not much info on the web that I could find), I was wondering what the 43 has over the 47? Besides a slightly shorter focal length. The 47 is a nice little piece of glass. I especially appreciate the 113mm image circle. Although the light fall off is something to wish was better, but manageable.
the 43XL...
- has a slightly higher contrast (and is also slightly sharper... negligible, though)
- it's usable at f8 all over the image circle (the 47XL has to be stopped down to f11 with large movements)
- at f11 and f16 both are more or less the same
- light falloff is also more or less the same (~2 stops)
Schneider will provide a glass centerfilter (no regular series but by order); should be available in April/May.
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Hi Jurgen,
the longer the lens, the less noticeable the colour variations and falloff (as you know)...but, I still do LCCs for the 90mm ,however, not with the 180mm...
Cheers
M
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It's a nice do-it-all lens especially with hi-res backs
Aptus-II 10R and Rm2D:
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Maybe I'm misreading the MTF charts but, judging by those, the 43mm XL looks rather disappointing. (They can be found on the Alpa site).
Compared with the 47mm it looks like it has much worse fall-off in sharpness and illumination.
On the plus side, it seems to be very slightly sharper in the centre than the 47mm and have significantly less distortion than the Rodenstock HR W 40mm.
The question then naturally arises of whether one wouldn't be better off just shooting with the 47mm and doing a touch of stitching when a bit extra was needed.
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Maybe I'm misreading the MTF charts but, judging by those, the 43mm XL looks rather disappointing. (They can be found on the Alpa site).
Compared with the 47mm it looks like it has much worse fall-off in sharpness and illumination.
On the plus side, it seems to be very slightly sharper in the centre than the 47mm and have significantly less distortion than the Rodenstock HR W 40mm.
The question then naturally arises of whether one wouldn't be better off just shooting with the 47mm and doing a touch of stitching when a bit extra was needed.
I've never compared the 43 to the 47 head-to-head but with the 43 I can comfortably shoot wide open or at f8 whereas with the 47 you have to follow the "safe f11" rule and this can sometimes make a big difference especially when pushing long-ish exposures etc.
my 2¢ worth
Yair
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Has anyone using the 43XL (or 47XL) run into the issue Phase One highlight in their knoledge base article below?
http://www.phaseone.com/en/search/article.aspx?articleid=1221&languageid=1 (http://www.phaseone.com/en/search/article.aspx?articleid=1221&languageid=1)
The flange focal distance of the Rodenstock is a lot greater than the Schneider (69.5mm vs 48.9mm) which would probably account for the issues highlighted above and would suggest the Rodenstock to be a better option with the latest gen digi backs.
However, the distortion and much higher price of the Rodenstock makes the Schneider 43XL a much better proposition if it works.
Your comments would be appreciated :)
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I just started shooting my 47mm wide open and I'm pretty happy with the results. Are most copies soft wide open?
unedited besides white balance. 100 percent unsharpened crop on the right.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k225/skimasks/teatime1.jpg