Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: fredjeang on June 06, 2010, 01:36:05 pm
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Hi,
I don't know if it would be good to do a special C1 users thread to write and group our whishes for futures versions, in a same area so it is easy to see them all. This could be interesting for Capture develloppers etc...
Please, if you feel like you can add yours here.
Who knows, maybe Capture members will read that thread and will take into account some ideas.
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Here is my first Capture wish.
-I would like to see a background switcher directly on the working area. Next to the loader could be a good place as there is a lot of free room.
When working on a image, for certain applications and to be visually aware of a colour behaviour next to others that would be helpfull.
This switcher would display the basics grey from B to W and some different color spaces panels. A written indication of the current in use would be displayed.
Cheers.
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Hi,
I don't know if it would be good to do a special C1 users thread to write and group our whishes for futures versions, in a same area so it is easy to see them all. This could be interesting for Capture develloppers etc...
Please, if you feel like you can add yours here.
Who knows, maybe Capture members will read that thread and will take into account some ideas.
------------------------------------
Here is my first Capture wish.
-I would like to see a background switcher directly on the working area. Next to the loader could be a good place as there is a lot of free room.
When working on a image, for certain applications and to be visually aware of a colour behaviour next to others that would be helpfull.
This switcher would display the basics grey from B to W and some different color spaces panels. A written indication of the current in use would be displayed.
Cheers.
Sending ideas directly to Phase One is probably the best way to influence their development concepts. I'm not certain a tool for changing background color will ring their bell; but, they allow Command + " ," to bring up the preference box, so, why not allow us to edit keyboard shortcuts to control some of those preferences, such as background color.
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I would love to know when I am supposed to look at my focus image.
Sometimes its fast, most times depending on workload you can never tell which image I have sharp in what area of the subject. I little orange indicator would solve this.
Also, when new captures are being taken while some are being edited in the same folder, I wish there was a REFRESH so the new images show up(I would think its just me who can't find it?)
Other than that, I wish it was a bit faster focusing, and loading the files, and everytime you "touch"/Edit the file its as if everything is slow.
...It would be nice to get the view criteria right as a default for sorting.
SPEED, thats the bottom line, SPEED!...and some indications. :-)
I just got LR3, and I still like C1. maybe its just that I am used to it, but I actual "feel" I get more 3D, and sharp files out of C1...I know, I know...thats why I said feel...so either its metal or there is a difference as I have not done any tests, but yet to get the SHARP 3D feel I get from C1....just my overall impression. Besides,I can't understand or get around the LAME database import add shmad! WETF it is... The file is in the folder written from camera/captuer...READ IT..if you can't do what you need in the background, and pertend while I see it, and edit it!
Capture One guys...If your listening...Here is another one that might be best for ease of use.
I would love to be able to move the "browser window" off the lower panel and onto another monitor as I use 2x 30", and any shooter will like have a large screen or 2 screens.
Even better, I would love for the program to take on the Modern approach. It would have the core Browser and edit window, then all else is an add-on.
I don't mean visually as you can have this to some extend as the GUI, but as a program so it can be faster, so it doesn't have all this weight...I know, maybe not possible...BUT, if you did...WOW! Think of it as a marketing stand point, if you come up with something super brilliant, you can add it (not plug in, but module set) for $29.99. (Free for me of course).
So this is my workflow...
-Get all files into C1...then realize this is too slow to load 60 files.
-Switch to ACDSee Pro to view(It only sees the tif preview, no prob). so then while C1 is loading, I kinda get an idea which files/angles I like.
-See if C1 is done. Sort by name.
-select and process maybe 7 to 12 files in max TIF16bit
-open files in CS5 edit, and save.
-back to ACDSEEPro3 to batch convert to Jpeg client previews with data ripped out and new info added into new folders and email off, and can FTP via ACDSeePro3
(I use a quad i7 3.4ghz with 8gb ram). Files are on Intel SSE4x servers in Raid5 for protection/mirrored.
I usually have ACDSee Pro3 open, C1, CS5ext, Acrobat, InDesign. I close the last 2 as much as possible.
The second system has all emailing, Acrobat, IExplorer, EFI RIP to print. audio/mp3 playing). Another system is dedicated to capture. I mention these in case there is a obvious bottle neck some can pinpoint.
Anyone have a "better" approach?
I prefer using different programs to manage and edit images...I prefer programs doing what they are designed and taking the weight off its main task.
Bridge is slow and way limited compared to ACDSee Pro3, LR3 is also doing way to much in one prog, and has I have not understood the dbase BS.
What do you do, and is it fast?
Cheers!
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I would love to be able to move the "browser window" off the lower panel and onto another monitor as I use 2x 30"
why don't you? Hide viewer and tools so that the main application window only consists of the browser. Move it to the second monitor and scale the window to the desired dimensions.
Create a set of floating tools (you can also group them) on the second monitor.
Open the second viewer (menu "window"->"viewer") and place it on you first monitor.
Safe this as a workspace.
Done.
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I would like the high ISO NR to be updated to be at least as good as that of LR3/ACR6.1. I consider the current implementation to be broken, even compared to C1 v3.7.x — and LR/ACR put it to shame.
Nill
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why don't you? Hide viewer and tools so that the main application window only consists of the browser. Move it to the second monitor and scale the window to the desired dimensions.
Create a set of floating tools (you can also group them) on the second monitor.
Open the second viewer (menu "window"->"viewer") and place it on you first monitor.
Safe this as a workspace.
Done.
Had not thought of that. I didn't realize you can have another viewer. I like that idea. I will give it a shot.. thanks
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Had not thought of that. I didn't realize you can have another viewer. I like that idea. I will give it a shot.. thanks
You can even save different workspaces as a preference and call them up for different purposes. For example I have my main editing workspace arrangement saved, and then a "light table" arrangement with a smaller focus window and larger browser with larger previews for my first round "ranking" editing.
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How about local adjustments? I really miss my grads from LR3.
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You can even save different workspaces as a preference and call them up for different purposes. For example I have my main editing workspace arrangement saved, and then a "light table" arrangement with a smaller focus window and larger browser with larger previews for my first round "ranking" editing.
It is frustrating to figure out what/when something is in focus, and I think this is one of the biggest issues for me(maybe speed another). I can't imagine a P65 user!?
So I am always on the lookout for an improvement from C1 or open to try something else. I loved the 3.7 speed and simplicity, and STILL use it for Capture, as all the 5.1 bloating is completely unnecessary for captuer. Files get captured to a folder on server using 3.78, and then for 5.1 to convert/process.
Yes, 5.1 has lots of great things that make you want it as the only raw converter/processor...Just a struggle with the pros/little but very important cons of it. I hope soon I see a a speed jump in seeing 100% focus, and knowing when to judge a file for focus.
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How about local adjustments? I really miss my grads from LR3.
Those I consider "plugins" or something on that level, as an extra feature ..nice bonus, but thats what I like PS+plugs for.
I think the type of photography we do has LOTS to do with how a converter suites our needs. and something like landscape(LL appropriently so), one type of shooting that doesnt require much Photoshop use and you'd want to do those things within a raw converter, but I would think many shooters...anyone taking it to Photoshop will make those tweaks in editing.
When you are working for a client vs your own artistic vision, on the former I keep the raw conversion a true to capture seperate and make adjustments in PS. but of course you may prefer just the other way around, or not even deal with PS. For example, a car photographer, I would think would hardly find "in raw grads" or adjustments THAT useful when the file will get PS treatments. Thats the case for me when I do product.
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Sure, there is nothing in local adjustments that you cannot do in PS, but having those tools acting on the raw data and within the raw software is just so convenient. I prefer not to go to PS if I can avoid it and in many cases LRs tools get me most of the way to where I want an image to be. If C1 had local adjustments it would be a better tool.
You asked for suggestions to improve it, well that would improve it for me. Sometime it's not all about the pure quality, I can go to Raw Developer for that, it's about workflow and C1 is still slightly lacking in this area IMHO.
Those I consider "plugins" or something on that level, as an extra feature ..nice bonus, but thats what I like PS+plugs for.
I think the type of photography we do has LOTS to do with how a converter suites our needs. and something like landscape(LL appropriently so), one type of shooting that doesnt require much Photoshop use and you'd want to do those things within a raw converter, but I would think many shooters...anyone taking it to Photoshop will make those tweaks in editing.
When you are working for a client vs your own artistic vision, on the former I keep the raw conversion a true to capture seperate and make adjustments in PS. but of course you may prefer just the other way around, or not even deal with PS. For example, a car photographer, I would think would hardly find "in raw grads" or adjustments THAT useful when the file will get PS treatments. Thats the case for me when I do product.
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Sure, there is nothing in local adjustments that you cannot do in PS, but having those tools acting on the raw data and within the raw software is just so convenient. I prefer not to go to PS if I can avoid it and in many cases LRs tools get me most of the way to where I want an image to be. If C1 had local adjustments it would be a better tool.
You asked for suggestions to improve it, well that would improve it for me. Sometime it's not all about the pure quality, I can go to Raw Developer for that, it's about workflow and C1 is still slightly lacking in this area IMHO.
Absolutely, we all have are specific needs :-)
So I take it the focus is not a issue for you?
fyi.....
I also agree that the workflow is a bit different in C1 and takes getting used to some commands. I imagine many people don't have time to learn a new way of a program.
I think many people who are fluent and understand Windows Explorer would have some hurdles....such as myself. But in C1, they are not so major, just some shortcuts, and knowing to name a project(still getting used to it)..... it has the little tree with all the file structure like explorer at least,.
With LR3....wow...I have to learn a entire new way a computer handles files. I did it a couple times, but when working in a Windows environment so regularly...everytime I need to process when LR is new to me....Its like learning to ride a bike all over again. So when you have more than LR, specially C1...You just close LR and work in C1.
Thats how it is for me. I doubt many working pros can devote much time and effort when the job is gotta get done to learn and REMEMEBER how a database, or what ever it is LR wants to do to the files before hand in order to make adjustments. I know, I sound impatient...and likely am a bit. but I did the steps it gives with color coded panels a couple times, and then a few days passed before needing to process....then ...Arrfgh, back to C1, as I forgot the stuff I did in LR!
I wonder how Mac folks deal with it? Maybe I should dust off my beautiful looking G5.....nahh
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When you say 'focus' do you mean that overlay that shows which bits are sharp?
If so, it's certainly cool, but not as useful as I expected and it's awfully slow to display the thumbs when you turn it on, and that's on a quad core PC.
C1 on a Mac is fine, I use it on both platforms, no worries there.
I guess C1 is a raw processor with some aspirations to be a full DAM with it's sessions concept. LR is the same but with a far better, but still limited, DAM facility. Although, having said that, there is a surprising amount of power under the hood and the versatility of smart collections is not to be underestimated.
I don't really want to get into a comparison of the two, they are both excellent apps. If you are used to C1 then LR is a strange country, and the reverse is true too.
Absolutely, we all have are specific needs :-)
So I take it the focus is not a issue for you?
fyi.....
I also agree that the workflow is a bit different in C1 and takes getting used to some commands. I imagine many people don't have time to learn a new way of a program.
I think many people who are fluent and understand Windows Explorer would have some hurdles....such as myself. But in C1, they are not so major, just some shortcuts, and knowing to name a project(still getting used to it)..... it has the little tree with all the file structure like explorer at least,.
With LR3....wow...I have to learn a entire new way a computer handles files. I did it a couple times, but when working in a Windows environment so regularly...everytime I need to process when LR is new to me....Its like learning to ride a bike all over again. So when you have more than LR, specially C1...You just close LR and work in C1.
Thats how it is for me. I doubt many working pros can devote much time and effort when the job is gotta get done to learn and REMEMEBER how a database, or what ever it is LR wants to do to the files before hand in order to make adjustments. I know, I sound impatient...and likely am a bit. but I did the steps it gives with color coded panels a couple times, and then a few days passed before needing to process....then ...Arrfgh, back to C1, as I forgot the stuff I did in LR!
I wonder how Mac folks deal with it? Maybe I should dust off my beautiful looking G5.....nahh
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It is frustrating to figure out what/when something is in focus, and I think this is one of the biggest issues for me(maybe speed another). I can't imagine a P65 user!?
Precisely why I have a half-screen focus window PLUS a half screen browser window side-by-side as my "light table" arrangement for the initial edits . Then once ranked, I switch to my "normal" layout which is a full screen preview window, tools on the left, single-column browser on the right, and 5 focus windows pre-opened on monitor 2...
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Its the first thing I think any of us at least when doing product....(OK maybe me and a few others..really?) is to select images that are sharp. The only way I know how to do that, like Jack is mentioning is opening a Focus window.
Imagine you have 5 poses of a model, and each has 10-20 frames. You want to get the one with the sharpest eyes, or shoulder, or what ever....you need to go through 100 files to select the ones focused in the area you need.....Who doesn't do this? And what is it you do? Doing this is the most painful for me. This is with the p25 files....I can't imagine the trouble doing P65 files.
And yes...Nick, like you said..Its slow!, me too a quad 3.4+ghz with 8GB ram. On top of that, there is no indication of knowing when C1 has rendered that file in focus in the window.
At least in 3.7 while it was rendering you can tell rather accurately if something was going to show up focus after selecting and waiting a few seconds, by seeing "crunchy" pixels vs soft pixels. Now its a bit blurry and then after a bit, or when whenever its sharply ready to preview.
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Its the first thing I think any of us at least when doing product....(OK maybe me and a few others..really?) is to select images that are sharp. The only way I know how to do that, like Jack is mentioning is opening a Focus window.
Imagine you have 5 poses of a model, and each has 10-20 frames. You want to get the one with the sharpest eyes, or shoulder, or what ever....you need to go through 100 files to select the ones focused in the area you need.....Who doesn't do this? And what is it you do? Doing this is the most painful for me. This is with the p25 files....I can't imagine the trouble doing P65 files.
And yes...Nick, like you said..Its slow!, me too a quad 3.4+ghz with 8GB ram. On top of that, there is no indication of knowing when C1 has rendered that file in focus in the window.
At least in 3.7 while it was rendering you can tell rather accurately if something was going to show up focus after selecting and waiting a few seconds, by seeing "crunchy" pixels vs soft pixels. Now its a bit blurry and then after a bit, or when whenever its sharply ready to preview.
Use focus mask. One of the more useful inventions in recent versions. Puts a nice green mark over whatever is sharpest in previews and thumbs. Works pretty fast here... saves hours
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A capture One Version, which actually runs on a modern windows Workstation. A Version which does not crash every 30 seconds because it has to many resource available.... That would be all.
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A capture One Version, which actually runs on a modern windows Workstation. A Version which does not crash every 30 seconds because it has to many resource available.... That would be all.
Following your idea, why shouldn't we have the possibility to lauch C1 in different configurations where the program would load strictly the necessary ressources for the task in question,
instead of using all the full potential for tasks that require much less.
So we would have a pre selection panel like: thether task, files management, full edition etc...and the C1 would just use the ressources necessary for each task.
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Following your idea, why shouldn't we have the possibility to lauch C1 in different configurations where the program would load strictly the necessary ressources for the task in question,
instead of using all the full potential for tasks that require much less.
So we would have a pre selection panel like: thether task, files management, full edition etc...and the C1 would just use the ressources necessary for each task.
I know I wrote and rambled a bit...but its all substance :-)
"Even better, I would love for the program to take on the Modern approach. It would have the core Browser and edit window, then all else is an add-on.
I don't mean visually as you can have this to some extend as the GUI, but as a program so it can be faster, so it doesn't have all this weight...I know, maybe not possible...BUT, if you did...WOW!
"
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I know I wrote and rambled a bit...but its all substance :-)
"Even better, I would love for the program to take on the Modern approach. It would have the core Browser and edit window, then all else is an add-on.
I don't mean visually as you can have this to some extend as the GUI, but as a program so it can be faster, so it doesn't have all this weight...I know, maybe not possible...BUT, if you did...WOW!
"
I don't Need it faster, just stable. . . . . . .
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I don't Need it faster, just stable. . . . . . .
Glad you mention Chris...It took almost 4 minutes to get 270 thumbnails to show up. then I sorted them by name and that was a snap. To get one of the 22mp images in focus it took 10 seconds.
I have Win7 8GB ram with OS onRaptor, Page file on 2 Raid0 SSD 64gb drives sharing scratch for PS, and the files are on a Intel 1000gb network.
to me...thats slow...any of thing give someone a idea vs their speed?
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Something is wrong with y'all's setups. v5.1 is very snappy for me, and I'm running it on a four-year-old dual Athlon with 4GB RAM under Win XP2 32-bit. It's faster than v3.7.x and, so far, considerably more stable. In fact, come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure that it's (knock wood) crashed or hung even once since I installed it.
Nill
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Something is wrong with y'all's setups. v5.1 is very snappy for me, and I'm running it on a four-year-old dual Athlon with 4GB RAM under Win XP2 32-bit. It's faster than v3.7.x and, so far, considerably more stable. In fact, come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure that it's (knock wood) crashed or hung even once since I installed it.
Nill
I have not compared it to 3.7x, And I have yet to have it crash on me since the latest update. I am running 64bit, as I have 8gb ram. (plan to up this to 12gb or more.
Maybe you can do a ballpark est like I did with the time it takes a file to focus, and maybe loading a number files in the browser...meaning select folder from library and let it load. images/min/sec
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I have not compared it to 3.7x, And I have yet to have it crash on me since the latest update. I am running 64bit, as I have 8gb ram. (plan to up this to 12gb or more.
Maybe you can do a ballpark est like I did with the time it takes a file to focus, and maybe loading a number files in the browser...meaning select folder from library and let it load. images/min/sec
Well I'm still testing a bit, but as far as I can tell C1 on windows gets more and more unstable, the better the computer gets. It runs fine on old computers.
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Well I'm still testing a bit, but as far as I can tell C1 on windows gets more and more unstable, the better the computer gets. It runs fine on old computers.
I have my share of sw issues with ACDsee Pro crash, Bridge used to until I Xed it out.... but for basic processing that I do using many of the tool sets in C1 5.1.2 using dual screen/2x 30" screens, Win7 64bit on i7 3.5ghz quad, and 8gb ram, on Asus P7P55D Pro board, with SSD drives for swap/scratch, and a Raptor for OS, with files on a server, I have not had any crashes. Can it be the file types you are working on? I think it is slow...but it is stable for me, and I would say my system is rather new. It can also be a mix of other SW you may have loaded on your system? I keep my editing machine clean, with just the needed sw. I would love to hear some numbers for file loading and focus when you do some testing Chris.
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I have my share of sw issues with ACDsee Pro crash, Bridge used to until I Xed it out.... but for basic processing that I do using many of the tool sets in C1 5.1.2 using dual screen/2x 30" screens, Win7 64bit on i7 3.5ghz quad, and 8gb ram, on Asus P7P55D Pro board, with SSD drives for swap/scratch, and a Raptor for OS, with files on a server, I have not had any crashes. Can it be the file types you are working on? I think it is slow...but it is stable for me, and I would say my system is rather new. It can also be a mix of other SW you may have loaded on your system? I keep my editing machine clean, with just the needed sw. I would love to hear some numbers for file loading and focus when you do some testing Chris.
Well I'm more talking about:
Win 7 64 bit
Dual Xeon Hexacores running at 3.2 Ghz
48Gb of RAM
and so on
The funny thing is C1 runs fine on my laptop which just has a Intel i7 and 8Gb of RAM
In addition, C1 is the ONLY program, which is so unstable. LR, PS, Maya, and many more programs run 100% stable.
Well it is as unstable on brand new OS with only C1 installed I just did that test yesterday for Phase one.
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Well I'm still testing a bit, but as far as I can tell C1 on windows gets more and more unstable, the better the computer gets. It runs fine on old computers.
Yes I'm not surprised. Though your definition of "old" computers would probably make most forum users giggle a bit.
Any bleeding edge setup is prone to find problems here and there. Having 48gb of ram on a dual Server-class 12-core tower is pretty bleeding edge. Add to it the complications of the Windows world where there are literally millions of combinations of equipment/OS-versions.
Don't get me wrong; it doesn't excuse the fact that C1 is not stable on your system, but it may well explain it.
Especially given that we have many high-end (but not bleeding-edge) Windows users that are finding stability to be excellent (see other replies to this thread, several of whom are our direct customers).
Hopefully stability will be improved for exotic setups like yours. If you haven't yet done so I would recommend submitting a support case at phaseone.com and following their steps to submit a system-report so they have your hardware/OS configuration that is problematic. I doubt they have a large number of data points for machines with 48gb of ram.
Doug Peterson ()
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Yes I'm not surprised. Though your definition of "old" computers would probably make most forum users giggle a bit.
Any bleeding edge setup is prone to find problems here and there. Having 48gb of ram on a dual Server-class 12-core tower is pretty bleeding edge. Add to it the complications of the Windows world where there are literally millions of combinations of equipment/OS-versions.
Don't get me wrong; it doesn't excuse the fact that C1 is not stable on your system, but it may well explain it.
Especially given that we have many high-end (but not bleeding-edge) Windows users that are finding stability to be excellent (see other replies to this thread, several of whom are our direct customers).
Hopefully stability will be improved for exotic setups like yours. If you haven't yet done so I would recommend submitting a support case at phaseone.com and following their steps to submit a system-report so they have your hardware/OS configuration that is problematic. I doubt they have a large number of data points for machines with 48gb of ram.
[font="Arial"]Doug Peterson ()
Don't worry I am already talking to Phase one and they have all my data and a collection of videos showing every problem and crash. I work with a lot of different software (Audio, 3D, Video and Photo Software) and I can say that Capture One is the ONLY program which can't deal with a bleeding edge system under windows. It also so far is not very hard for me to replicate the problem on a friends computer running only one CPU but again 24GB of RAM. So it certainly has to do something with bad memory management. I could go into a lot more detail, about stuff I found out, but it doesn't really belong here and it is enough that the Phase One support team has access to it. You know Doug that we already talked about the problem and I still don't really blame Phase One, it certainly is a exotic system, but it's also a fact that Capture One is the only program havening troubles, dealing with it.
Oh and did I really write old computer ? If I did so, I'm certainly sorry, because I don't think a i7 or similar is old, just not a real "modern" windows workstation.
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Don't worry I am already talking to Phase one and they have all my data and a collection of videos showing every problem and crash. I work with a lot of different software (Audio, 3D, Video and Photo Software) and I can say that Capture One is the ONLY program which can't deal with a bleeding edge system under windows. It also so far is not very hard for me to replicate the problem on a friends computer running only one CPU but again 24GB of RAM. So it certainly has to do something with bad memory management. I could go into a lot more detail, about stuff I found out, but it doesn't really belong here and it is enough that the Phase One support team has access to it. You know Doug that we already talked about the problem and I still don't really blame Phase One, it certainly is a exotic system, but it's also a fact that Capture One is the only program havening troubles, dealing with it.
Oh and did I really write old computer ? If I did so, I'm certainly sorry, because I don't think a i7 or similar is old, just not a real "modern" windows workstation.
I wonder if its partly multi-threading issues. The problems I have (unpredictable loss of capture settings) feel like threading problems in that it's very hard to reproduce on demand, even though it happens frequently. Different hardware configurations would react differently too, making debugging a chore and a half.
Though minor, it is notable that the "Time Remaining" when processing images is completely wrong on my quad-core machine. It usually takes half the time it says it will - you can see the clock actually run fast. On my dual-core, the timer is spot on.
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Oh and did I really write old computer ? If I did so, I'm certainly sorry, because I don't think a i7 or similar is old, just not a real "modern" windows workstation.
The fact that it takes me almost 4 minutes to see 270 files in the browser, and 10 seconds for each image to come into focus tells me that Chris is on the right track...
kinda:-)
I am sure that your Hexacores and ram are there mostly for Maya or other 3D apps... bwith that setup C1 can surely FLY and only limit with read/write pipeline speeds....And thats what I was wondering...Since there is a overkill factor to image processing with Chris' system, this might help me to know...Yes more RAM would help me....or Yes, a Xeon chip or 2 will help by so much, etc. Ok sure you can also Raid0 your files, but its a little hard to do when you have 5-7TB of data AND you need to back that up.
You can look at the lastest i7 as bleeding edge also. but the class from consumer/prosumer/business class chips to enterprise server/3D workstation chips is just different.
If the latter is what it takes to run c1 smooth/snappy...then maybe I have some reconsidering to do, and every other c1 user with dMF files that don't like waiting 10 seconds for each picture to focus, or any time you make a slight adjustment.....or 4 or more minutes when changing folders for thiumb files to load in the broswers.
Chris, when you have it running a bit can you do those couple tests before it crashes?
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The fact that it takes me almost 4 minutes to see 270 files in the browser, and 10 seconds for each image to come into focus tells me that Chris is on the right track...
kinda:-)
I am sure that your Hexacores and ram are there mostly for Maya or other 3D apps... bwith that setup C1 can surely FLY and only limit with read/write pipeline speeds....And thats what I was wondering...Since there is a overkill factor to image processing with Chris' system, this might help me to know...Yes more RAM would help me....or Yes, a Xeon chip or 2 will help by so much, etc. Ok sure you can also Raid0 your files, but its a little hard to do when you have 5-7TB of data AND you need to back that up.
You can look at the lastest i7 as bleeding edge also. but the class from consumer/prosumer/business class chips to enterprise server/3D workstation chips is just different.
If the latter is what it takes to run c1 smooth/snappy...then maybe I have some reconsidering to do, and every other c1 user with dMF files that don't like waiting 10 seconds for each picture to focus, or any time you make a slight adjustment.....or 4 or more minutes when changing folders for thiumb files to load in the broswers.
Chris, when you have it running a bit can you do those couple tests before it crashes?
Well I can tell you that it takes around 5-10 seconds for 50 P65 raws to load and that it takes around 1-3 seconds to get a P65 raw file in 100% focus. It's fast and great, but believe me it does not help, if the program decides to quite after 10 clicks ;-)
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Well I can tell you that it takes around 5-10 seconds for 50 P65 raws to load and that it takes around 1-3 seconds to get a P65 raw file in 100% focus. It's fast and great, but believe me it does not help, if the program decides to quite after 10 clicks ;-)
That is FAST.
What drives is the data being read from?
I hope they fix this for you....and those of us that itch to get such a system. I am guessing each chip is about $800 to 1100 for the xeons? and then if you have 4gb sticks x 12 wow...12 slots? or are these 8gb sticks(didnt know they have any?) is this is a Supermicron board? or?
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That is FAST.
What drives is the data being read from?
I hope they fix this for you....and those of us that itch to get such a system. I am guessing each chip is about $800 to 1100 for the xeons? and then if you have 4gb sticks x 12 wow...12 slots? or are these 8gb sticks(didnt know they have any?) is this is a Supermicron board? or?
It's a Asus Board, has 12 memory slots. and 4GB each, however you CAN get 8Gb in each so in total you can get 96Gb of Ram.
The files are being read from a RAID5 array. ( 5 x 2TB drives ) C1 itself runs on a SSD.
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It's a Asus Board, has 12 memory slots. and 4GB each, however you CAN get 8Gb in each so in total you can get 96Gb of Ram.
The files are being read from a RAID5 array. ( 5 x 2TB drives ) C1 itself runs on a SSD.
Which SSD are you using?
I too had my OS and scratch&swap on SSD and recently switched back to raptor for the OS. I have programs on same drive as OS.
I had the Patriot Torq 64 and a 128gb. Now have 2 64gb SSD as scratch and OS page file.... while OS is on Raptor. I had it dump/wipe on me a few times, so I switched OS to Raptor. My files are on 3 RAID5mirror 4x1TB ...using 3 Intel EMC SS4200E boxes.
I remember you and I chatted when I was building my system :-)
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Regarding Christopher's stability problem I am running an i7 intel 2.65mHz processors, Vista 64 bit with 12 GB RAM and no problems with C1 5.1.2. To test I loaded 595 P45+ files in eight minutes and 15 seconds.
Have you checked your event viewer for possible issues?
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Regarding Christopher's stability problem I am running an i7 intel 2.65mHz processors, Vista 64 bit with 12 GB RAM and no problems with C1 5.1.2. To test I loaded 595 P45+ files in eight minutes and 15 seconds.
Have you checked your event viewer for possible issues?
Wow...I surely do have a bottleneck someplace.
I have a like setup, (3.5 i7 Quad with Raptor OS) 8GB ram reading P25 files. I am also reading it from a Intel network server 2.6ghz 2gb ram SS4200E Intel with WD Caviar black drives.
What hard drive are you using?
I also wonder if C1 uses some type of scratch/swap file/disk of its own, or is it the Windows page file? I have the Win7-64bit page file on 2x 64gb RAID0 SSD drives.
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I have been using C1 since the early version 3.1 and I am now running the latest version 5.1.2.
I am running C1 (not the PRO version) under Win 7 x64 4GB with a Quad-Core Pentium processor and both the OS and C1 run on a WD Veloci/Raptor @ 10,000rpm.
C1 is very stable and very fast processing Canon RAW files.
1) I wish the slider button were a bit larger and less sensitive to allow for more precise adjustments.
2) A second request would be for the Copy Adjustments button to turn orange when active. It seems to me that this is true in the PRO version but not implemented the the non-PRO version.
Regards,
Persio.
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I didn't see any performance differences rendering on quad vs dual core, similar mhz and cache parameters. Memory same on both systems. Although I think multi-tasking and doing other things while rendering in the background would be way faster on the quad core.
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I just looked over my connections and realized that some of the cables were Cat 5 rather than 5-E or 6.
OH BOY....EVERYTHING IS MUCH BETTER! Its been a few months with my new system and I was thinking its the server...now I get MIN 59mb/s to 80mb/sec transfer rates...YA!...saving is much faster, I am super happy!
Sometimes its easy to forget your old setup and a simple thing like a wire or 2 can toss a wrench in the system.
Chris, I would think you have your monster machine setup to handle 3D rendering. Why not build a system for your still image processing and leave the apps that handle Xenon and 30+ram to 3D, while having a system thats half or a 1/4 that run still images?
Maybe Phase can give you a limitation guideline and max around that? I don't even bother with email or internet or Office apps on my workstation. It is only for still image process editing. they are in the same studio space yet, I have a dedicated capture computer also. With systems so cheap, its better to dedicate the work load. You would likely save on electricity at the least :-) Just a thought in case its a option.
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Well i can live you all a some gerat News. After Talking to the Phase Support and giving them Access to all of my Information they Provider me with a New beta which was developed to handle Memory Terrors under Windows 7 in 64 Bit Better.
I can say they did a Perfect Job. So far after two weeks not a Single crash. I can also say that the system is MUCH faster than my quad core with 8gb of ram. It's now amazing to be able to actually work at many things at thebsame time and don't get any hangups at all.
I can only say fantastic work by phase one.
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Well i can live you all a some gerat News. After Talking to the Phase Support and giving them Access to all of my Information they Provider me with a New beta which was developed to handle Memory Terrors under Windows 7 in 64 Bit Better.
I can say they did a Perfect Job. So far after two weeks not a Single crash. I can also say that the system is MUCH faster than my quad core with 8gb of ram. It's now amazing to be able to actually work at many things at thebsame time and don't get any hangups at all.
I can only say fantastic work by phase one.
I also run the 5.1.2 BETA "out of memory fix" since a few weeks. It's finally stable an seams to address a few issues at once. I just technically don't understand how it can be that there are PCs with WIN 7/64 with C1 5.1..2 that do not need this fix???
nino
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Glad to here!
Does that mean when I setup my volunteer cpu processing farm across the globe I should be covered ? :-P
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Glad to here!
Does that mean when I setup my volunteer cpu processing farm across the globe I should be covered ? :-P
at least covered from perpetual crashes. Thats something ;)
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why don't you? Hide viewer and tools so that the main application window only consists of the browser. Move it to the second monitor and scale the window to the desired dimensions.
Create a set of floating tools (you can also group them) on the second monitor.
Open the second viewer (menu "window"->"viewer") and place it on you first monitor.
Safe this as a workspace.
Done.
While this works, I don't understand why you just can't move the browser to the second monitor like in C1 v3. Why? There can't be a single reason why you can't add it to the second window in the second monitor ...
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While this works, I don't understand why you just can't move the browser to the second monitor like in C1 v3. Why? There can't be a single reason why you can't add it to the second window in the second monitor ...
Would there be any difference in the end result??
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when working with multiple applications, it is nice for the foundation of functions to be somewhat alike. and switching around with apps, and having hang ups does toss a wrench in the process sometimes. Specially a simple screen drag. I am looking from his point of view...As I tossed LR off my system just for the way it creates / handles folders and needs a database to work on files.
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While this works, I don't understand why you just can't move the browser to the second monitor like in C1 v3. Why?
who cares? As long as you can set the desired layout (actually with one single command from the "window" menu) everything is fine... IMO.
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I love the way the C1 works with my dual monitor set-up. I have the browser and tools on the iMac screen and the viewer on my Spectraview screen (usually in portait mode). By far the best dual screen mode I've used.
As I understand it C1 is now a series of programs working together, I'd like to see the addition of approved third party programs / plugins such as Alien Skin Exposure or similar. That and a tone curve that only affects luminance would pretty much eliminate my need for PS although some localised adjustments would be good too.
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I find that it's very easy to forget to activate (or desactivate) the focus done in C1 when export. This is not a problem of course because it's kept but I found myself many times when swich to PS that I forgot to quit desactivate focus (just below scale).
Also, something that is anoying is that C1 does not come back to "fit the screen" automatically when changing picture but stays in the previous magnification. (Phocus yes do that by its own :P) Is there a way to do that permanently?
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Also, something that is anoying is that C1 does not come back to "fit the screen" automatically when changing picture but stays in the previous magnification. (Phocus yes do that by its own :P) Is there a way to do that permanently?
Funny how user preferences differ! I find this enormously helpful actually - when changing images it sticks to the same spot and magnification - also when you select additional images (e.g. 4-up display) the newly selected images show the same magnification. When editing down from multiple similar images this is a huge time saver (at least in my workflow).
Neither of us are "right" or "wrong" but we both clearly have different preferences. If you want the next image to jump back to "zoom to fit" then it must be terribly annoying for C1 to hold the same spot/magnification!
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
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Funny how user preferences differ! I find this enormously helpful actually - when changing images it sticks to the same spot and magnification - also when you select additional images (e.g. 4-up display) the newly selected images show the same magnification. When editing down from multiple similar images this is a huge time saver (at least in my workflow).
Neither of us are "right" or "wrong" but we both clearly have different preferences. If you want the next image to jump back to "zoom to fit" then it must be terribly annoying for C1 to hold the same spot/magnification!
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/") | RSS Feed (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/")
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/")
Absolutly Doug. There is also a sense to keep the magnification. My point was that it would be good if that could be decided in preference settings, so depending on the needs, it would work the same way for the same session.
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I'm jumping in here a bit late but I've been running into continued slowness since upgrading from C1 3.7.x. Currently we have a few machines still on 3.7.x for processing here at the studio but have upgraded many of the other MP towers to 5.2. All are on SL 10.6.3 or higher with no less then 6GB RAM and plenty of HD space. Also no machines are slower then 2.66GHz multi procs.
The issue....
When connecting to the XServe (running SL) C1Pro 4,5,6 tap at least 1 or the 12 cores and the app slows to a crawl. The folders we're trying to view have 100+ .tifs or raws in them. Version 4 was really bad, 5 a bit better and now 6 seems to be worse. I won't allow them to use C1Pro 5 when viewing from the server due to the possibility of overwhelming it to the point of a crash. The more users that log on the more cores get tapped. Like I said 5 is better then 4. At least with 5 you can have the server mounted. With 4, it immediately started indexing folders/files and pegged more then one core with just one user.
Has anybody come across slowness when working from of an XServe before? We've addressed this issue with Phase and Apple before and things never progressed.
Any feedback would be helpful.
Thanks all!
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I'm jumping in here a bit late but I've been running into continued slowness since upgrading from C1 3.7.x. Currently we have a few machines still on 3.7.x for processing here at the studio but have upgraded many of the other MP towers to 5.2. All are on SL 10.6.3 or higher with no less then 6GB RAM and plenty of HD space. Also no machines are slower then 2.66GHz multi procs.
The issue....
When connecting to the XServe (running SL) C1Pro 4,5,6 tap at least 1 or the 12 cores and the app slows to a crawl. The folders we're trying to view have 100+ .tifs or raws in them. Version 4 was really bad, 5 a bit better and now 6 seems to be worse. I won't allow them to use C1Pro 5 when viewing from the server due to the possibility of overwhelming it to the point of a crash. The more users that log on the more cores get tapped. Like I said 5 is better then 4. At least with 5 you can have the server mounted. With 4, it immediately started indexing folders/files and pegged more then one core with just one user.
Has anybody come across slowness when working from of an XServe before? We've addressed this issue with Phase and Apple before and things never progressed.
Version 4/5/6 all interact with server based access differently than version 3 did (which was effectively an entirely different program). Networking to an XServe is not a consumer level application of the software - you'll need someone with strong knowledge of networking protocols, network optimization, and have them work with Phase One using their support case system to ensure your network is ideally set up for access across a network. Or you can switch to a access-local+archive-on-network method which is much more conducive to almost all modern software packages.
I know the Head of Technical Support is a networking guru with certifications and real world experience, so your support case will "progress" if you provide the information they ask for and implement any tests/suggestions they give you.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/") | RSS Feed (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/")
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/")
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I just wanted to give some feedback to all those that replied to this post in helping me and others discover different options for my workflow.
Its been sometime since this post, and after going through some web courses and training myself more for C1, and an upgrade to 6x, it is much nicer to work with.
I enjoy using it much more than before..But, I still find it sluggish, loading the folder mainly. Also some small things that just gets me impatient; for example, I select a preset style, it gets blurry then ads the preset and sharpens,etc, little things. There are far many things I like about C1, and IF I were to be in a battle between LightRoom and C1, I don't think I would bother with LR. I have purchased and upgraded LR every time there is a revise, and I uninstall it all times so far. I still use Adobe Raw/Photshop's raw converter for most of my work. It is only limited for me by the # of files it loads(about 30). I wish I could change the background color on it and of course other things with the interface would help, but really, everything is fast and control is very good for common daily shoots. I love C1 for not forcing a "Session" workflow, it is 1 thing LR failed at from the get go for me.
Hope to hear more feedback and how others are handling things.
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Beleive it or not, but I had not use the latest C1 version until yesterday...(was doing motion and quite away from stills)
Well, I must congrat Phase One.
This is a very responsive software, way faster than the prev. I really like the way it renders the skins, makes the workflow much easier, great render right-out-the-box, the best I've seen in any raw dev, good controls inteligently implemented, faster to render 16bits tiffs than any other software I used so far and not one crash or freeze in intensive.
A much more matured version, I can say that I haven't found any downside to underline.
This is serious and professional.
Well done!!
ps: I'm not a brand addict, but when a company does the homeworks, I applaude.
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Beleive it or not, but I had not use the latest C1 version until yesterday...(was doing motion and quite away from stills)
Well, I must congrat Phase One.
This is a very responsive software, way faster than the prev. I really like the way it renders the skins, makes the workflow much easier, great render right-out-the-box, the best I've seen in any raw dev,
Develop the same raw in raw photo processor and c1, then tell me about skin rendering... Or white balance. Only in direct comparision you will see how yellow skin tones of c1 are. You then can adjust them to rpp. But thats time consuming...
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Develop the same raw in raw photo processor and c1, then tell me about skin rendering... Or white balance. Only in direct comparision you will see how yellow skin tones of c1 are. You then can adjust them to rpp. But thats time consuming...
Can't check RPP because it's been some time now I switched to PC, although I still have some older Macs, I hardly use them. I don't exprience this yellow issue on the skin tones at all, at least not with the canons.
Actually there are different pre-settings for skin tones, and got an overall response more on the reds. The fact to be able to view in linear is also important for my needs. To me, it's the best raw dev I've been using so far, but each person has its own perception, priorities and needs, and they can differ. I'm happy that RPP works for you.
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Skin tone in any of the raw processing software often varies based on camera, ISO, lighting conditions etc.
They are also subjective.
Sounds like you've found RPP to produce the skintones you find most pleasing for your camera. IMO others should take it as a lesson primarily that it's worth checking out several processors to find the one you find most pleasing (and efficient workflow wise) for your needs.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/") | RSS Feed (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/")
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/")
Masters Series Workshop:
New England Landscape - Fall Color (Oct 5-8) (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/2011/06/30/nelandscape/")