Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: PhillyPhotographer on May 27, 2010, 08:52:06 pm

Title: Empire State Building
Post by: PhillyPhotographer on May 27, 2010, 08:52:06 pm
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/3980332405_df7a3286d3_o.jpg)
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on May 27, 2010, 09:20:09 pm
Michael,

How come when you photograph places that I have tried to photograph, yours come out looking so much classier than mine?

It's very nice indeed. May I ask where you photographed it from? I assume it was from the umpteenth floor of a nearby building.

Eric

Title: Empire State Building
Post by: PhillyPhotographer on May 27, 2010, 09:29:00 pm
Quote from: Eric Myrvaagnes
Michael,

How come when you photograph places that I have tried to photograph, yours come out looking so much classier than mine?

It's very nice indeed. May I ask where you photographed it from? I assume it was from the umpteenth floor of a nearby building.

Eric

Thanks Eric.

This was taken from the top of Rockefeller Center and I got lucky with the clouds and light. It was taken on a very cold winter day and since no one was up there security let me stay for a while.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Dick Roadnight on May 28, 2010, 03:49:21 am
lack of foreground?

horizon so low in the frame?

composition so symmetrical?

lack of res or contrast, but that may be just the down-res to the Jpeg?
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Ed Blagden on May 28, 2010, 05:21:41 am
I rather like the composition, despite it being "wrong" in the formulaic sense of the word.  It is like a head and shoulders shot of a familiar friend, except the friend in this case is a building.

Love the b/w conversion, as I always do for your shots.

Ed
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: wthomphoto on May 28, 2010, 06:55:43 am
Beautiful black and white shot Michael. Rules are made to break, and I love the composition.  It's a classical photograph, and thanks for posting it.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: DarkPenguin on May 28, 2010, 09:08:20 am
Lovely image.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: John R Smith on May 28, 2010, 10:17:21 am
I think I'm going to make myself unpopular, but I agree with Dick here. The light is beautiful, the sky is superb, the tonal range is handled with great skill - but I can't feel comfortable with this composition. When I look at it, I keep wanting to see down. A portrait format, with the horizon line somewhat higher, would seem to suit the subject far better. At least, that's what I would have done in the same situation.

But obviously most people do not feel this way, and the picture does have many merits.

John
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: PhillyPhotographer on May 28, 2010, 10:20:59 am
Quote from: Ed Blagden
I rather like the composition, despite it being "wrong" in the formulaic sense of the word.  It is like a head and shoulders shot of a familiar friend, except the friend in this case is a building.

Love the b/w conversion, as I always do for your shots.

Ed

Thanks Ed, I don't believe in rules when it comes to photography and it has served me well.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: PhillyPhotographer on May 28, 2010, 10:25:58 am
Quote from: Dick Roadnight
lack of foreground?

horizon so low in the frame?

composition so symmetrical?

lack of res or contrast, but that may be just the down-res to the Jpeg?


All I can say is so what.

Michael Kenna

Chrysler Building
(http://www.michaelkenna.net/gallery_images/21afbd8.jpg)

Josef Hoflehner

Empire State Building
(http://www.josefhoflehner.com/newyorkcity/large/15.jpg)
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: PhillyPhotographer on May 28, 2010, 11:37:13 am
Matted 16" x 20"

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs521.ash1/30682_1489160397082_1476143245_31312823_6279023_n.jpg)
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Dick Roadnight on May 28, 2010, 01:06:54 pm
lack of foreground?

horizon so low in the frame?

composition so symmetrical?

lack of res or contrast, but that may be just the down-res to the Jpeg
?

Quote from: PhillyPhotographer
All I can say is so what.

Michael Kenna

You learn the basics... then you try to be "artistic" by ignoring the basic rules... but I do not like the pictures.

If you do not want critique, then do not post here.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: PhillyPhotographer on May 28, 2010, 01:28:01 pm
Quote from: Dick Roadnight
lack of foreground?

horizon so low in the frame?

composition so symmetrical?

lack of res or contrast, but that may be just the down-res to the Jpeg
?



You learn the basics... then you try to be "artistic" by ignoring the basic rules... but I do not like the pictures.

If you do not want critique, then do not post here.

I have ZERO problems with critique but your way of thinking is antiquated. If you don't like the photo that's fine, art is about personal taste. But to impose "rules", that's the anal type of attitude that held photography back for a long time.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: usathyan on May 28, 2010, 01:38:39 pm
Quote from: PhillyPhotographer
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/3980332405_df7a3286d3_o.jpg)

I love it. Thanks for sharing...wonderful piece of art!
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: dmerger on May 28, 2010, 02:20:34 pm
Quote from: PhillyPhotographer
I have ZERO problems with critique but your way of thinking is antiquated. If you don't like the photo that's fine, art is about personal taste. But to impose "rules", that's the anal type of attitude that held photography back for a long time.

PhillyPhotographer, you’re out of line.  You asked for critiques, and then you insult someone who provides a critique.  You may disagree with the critique, but there is no call for insults.  Do the right thing and apologize.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: PhillyPhotographer on May 28, 2010, 02:24:04 pm
Quote from: dmerger
PhillyPhotographer, you’re out of line.  You asked for critiques, and then you insult someone who provides a critique.  You may disagree with the critique, but there is no call for insults.  Do the right thing and apologize.

My response was not towards a critique. My response was to a set of "rules" period. There is no need for me to apologize.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Dick Roadnight on May 28, 2010, 02:30:07 pm
Quote from: PhillyPhotographer
I have ZERO problems with critique but your way of thinking is antiquated. If you don't like the photo that's fine, art is about personal taste. But to impose "rules", that's the anal type of attitude that held photography back for a long time.
My way of thinking might be traditional.
I am glad you think it is "fine" if I do not like the picture, according to my personal taste.
As stated above on this topic, rules are made to be broken... sometimes it results in a pleasing (to someone) picture, and I stated that: "You learn the basics... then you try to be "artistic" by ignoring the basic rules..."

I consider that standards of professional photography have not improved in the digital age, but, if you can market what you produce...
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: DarkPenguin on May 28, 2010, 02:36:05 pm
To critique by tossing out a set of "rules" to a photographer as accomplished as Philly is pretty insulting in its own right.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on May 28, 2010, 03:02:28 pm
Quote from: Dick Roadnight
lack of foreground?

horizon so low in the frame?

composition so symmetrical?
...
What a wonderful list of compliments!
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: dmerger on May 28, 2010, 03:03:57 pm
Quote from: PhillyPhotographer
My response was not towards a critique. My response was to a set of "rules" period. There is no need for me to apologize.

Contrary to your assertion, PhillyPhotographer, you response was to a person and was a personal attack. I can’t imagine where in civilized society, in reaction to a photo critique, it’s appropriate to tell someone that their “thinking is antiquated” and that they have an “anal type of attitude.”  

PhillyPhotographer and DarkPenguin, are you saying that personal insults are perfectly acceptable?   Unbelievable!

Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on May 28, 2010, 03:22:38 pm
Quote from: PhillyPhotographer
My response was not towards a critique. My response was to a set of "rules" period. There is no need for me to apologize.
Having been complimenting your way of breaking the "rules" in my previous post above, and being a fan of your work in general, allow me to disagree with your logic above. His critique equals listing a set of rules, hence you can not claim that your response was not toward a critique. Once you post something in public, you should be prepared for all kind of critique, including negative, which shall be then accepted with grace, even if you disagree (and especially when the majority of opinion is in your favor).  Calling one's opinion "antiquated" and "anal" is definitely not graceful, even if true.

Now, having said than, I do NOT think apology is in order. In my humble opinion, apologies are best reserved for unintentionally stepping on someones toes in, say, public transport...  expressing one's opinion should not require an apology (although how you phrase your opinion is going to speak more about you than about the subject of the debate).
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on May 28, 2010, 03:23:54 pm
In answer to a Report this Post to a Moderator:

''But to impose "rules", that's the anal type of attitude that held photography back for a long time."

I do not see a personal attack - rather a critical description of a commonly-held mindset.
May I suggest a debate on that subject rather than raising the ante by demanding apologies and accusations of personal attacks?

If you can't stand the heat...

Chris S
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: DarkPenguin on May 28, 2010, 03:26:03 pm
Please show how you get this ...

Quote from: dmerger
PhillyPhotographer and DarkPenguin, are you saying that personal insults are perfectly acceptable?   Unbelievable!

...out of this ...

Quote from: DarkPenguin
To critique by tossing out a set of "rules" to a photographer as accomplished as Philly is pretty insulting in its own right.


Title: Empire State Building
Post by: PhillyPhotographer on May 28, 2010, 03:32:31 pm
Quote from: dmerger
Contrary to your assertion, PhillyPhotographer, you response was to a person and was a personal attack. I can’t imagine where in civilized society, in reaction to a photo critique, it’s appropriate to tell someone that their “thinking is antiquated” and that they have an “anal type of attitude.”  

PhillyPhotographer and DarkPenguin, are you saying that personal insults are perfectly acceptable?   Unbelievable!

Again it wasn't at the critique and it wasn't a personal attack, it was an observation. Dick Roadnight understands what I'm saying and I understand what he's saying, you're the only one that seems to be offended so let it rest.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Ed Blagden on May 28, 2010, 03:37:21 pm
Quote from: Slobodan Blagojevic
Calling one's opinion "antiquated" and "anal" is definitely not graceful, even if true.
Oh I don't know about that... those are high class, educated, fruity and mildly amusing insults, and as such should be admired.

One thing I have noticed on this forum is that the better photographers deliver the better insults.  

Title: Empire State Building
Post by: John R Smith on May 28, 2010, 03:59:59 pm
Well, if Dick's antiquated I'm probably antedeluvian  

I think my comment sprang from the fact that I clipped a church tower just a teensy bit too tight to the top of the frame a couple of weeks back. I couldn't stand the proportions of the damned thing, and so I ended up spending two and a half hours last night adding half an inch to the top of the print, cloning the sky back in, and re-building the top of one pinnacle. So if it isn't classically composed, it just jars with me.

John
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: dmerger on May 28, 2010, 04:08:46 pm
I don’t understand how stating that “your way of thinking is antiquated” is not a personal attack.  Also, I don’t understand how “anal type of attitude” does not refer to a person.  On the other hand, stating something like “the rules you posted are antiquated and such type of rules held back photography for a long time” would not be a personal attack.  

Okay, so I don’t understand how words like “thinking” and “anal attitude” don’t refer to a person, but I’ve been overruled.  End of story.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: Dick Roadnight on May 28, 2010, 05:15:00 pm
Quote from: PhillyPhotographer
Again it wasn't at the critique and it wasn't a personal attack, it was an observation. Dick Roadnight understands what I'm saying and I understand what he's saying, you're the only one that seems to be offended so let it rest.
I did not want to waste space on the forum discussing it, but...

It obviously was a personal attack, and I was offended, and I am not happy to let it rest without an apology... but it seems that you have not got what it takes...

PS I am going to be away from my computer for about a week from tomorrow.
Title: Empire State Building
Post by: wthomphoto on May 28, 2010, 05:24:44 pm
Moderator's Note: This comment was not consistent with our guidelines and has been removed.