Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: JonathanBenoit on April 21, 2010, 02:36:05 pm
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I did a demo with Ulsaker Studio in CT yesterday with a Hasselblad MS back for fine art reproduction. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with using a hasselblad multishot for photographing interiors with a view camera. Just looking for some feedback to see if it would be worthwhile.
Thanks
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I did a demo with Ulsaker Studio in CT yesterday with a Hasselblad MS back for fine art reproduction. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with using a hasselblad multishot for photographing interiors with a view camera. Just looking for some feedback to see if it would be worthwhile.
Thanks
Not with a view camera but I shot interiors for years with a multi-shot system. Textiles (curtains and carpets) really capture well with multi-shot. Very important to always grab a single shot as well to guard against movement, it's a happy co-incidence that things that move tend to be forgiving subjects so you don't notice when you mask in the single shot frame .
Nick-T
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I use it when shooting interiors from time to time. It works like a charm and indeed everything will be much nicer, colors nicer/cleaner and much cleaner shadows (especially stuff that has fabric in it). A lot sharper as well, up to the point it becomes almost unbelievable at times. As Nick already mentioned never forget to make a single shot before every multishot you take.
I use it with the H on location and the X-act in the studio.
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I use it when shooting interiors from time to time. It works like a charm and indeed everything that has fabric in it will be much nicer, colors nicer/cleaner and much cleaner shadows. A lot sharper as well, up to the point it becomes almost unbelievable at times. As Nick already mentioned never forget to make a single shot before every multishot you take.
i was blown away when comparing the single shot to the four shot for reproductions. It is flawless. It's a very easy choice for that type of work. I'm sure the increase is as dramatic for interiors, but the increase in sharpness alone should sway many photographers toward the MS. I'd love to see a comparison of an interior shot. I might have to just rent the MS back and see for myself.
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Single vs. multishot compared in this Victor Magazine article from Hasselblad:
Perfect Shape (http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1664002/perfectshape.pdf)
I also have a Photoshop file with layered single and multishot images that is ideal for investigating the differences for those who are interested.
The major benefits of multishot versus single shot:
- Color is better due to no interpolation from the RGBG bayer pattern on the sensor
- Detail is greater due to 4x contrast information compared to 1x
File size is same, the four shots get merged into a single file on the host computer, multishot requires tethered operation.
If you are not recycling lights, successive shots are under 8 seconds. Mirror stays up, leaf shutter in lens opens/closes while the sensor is moved in 1 pixel increments.
Minor increase in time, (who is shooting 30 frames per minute for interiors?) for a substantially superior image. Art reproduction is flawless.
Same camera can be used as single shot to cover your action, non-still photography.
John
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Using a multi-shot system will just slow things down (even more) - which in turn will push costs up (even higher than they already are).
So unless the difference is noticeable - and that difference can be clearly seen by my clients, to the point they want to Use the images more - then it's simply not worth it.
I think that the H4D-60 will be adequate for most jobs in single shot, with the option of shift-and-stitch when higher res is needed. It would be nice to have a powered auto system for stitching... you still get a larger file, but ¿better quality not limited by the lens?
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I think that the H4D-60 will be adequate for most jobs in single shot, with the option of shift-and-stitch when higher res is needed. It would be nice to have a powered auto system for stitching... you still get a larger file, but ¿better quality not limited by the lens?
Is the H4D-60 actually shipping? I am concerned about this. I am thinking of the H4D-40 to complement my nikons. Right now I feel like Hasselblad will not deliver the 60, nor say that they have a problem to the customers. When the P65 went on sale, Phase stated clearly that the sensor was exclusive to them. Hasselblad promised different (H3D-60). The problem, for me, is not the lack of a 60mpixels back. It is my growing lack of confidence. They say nothing and that's unnerveving. For me, the investment on the H4D-40 is one year+ planning and saving. I did see that now the H4D-60 is listed on the Hasselblad drop down. The presence of a camera in the company menu is the only change I am aware of.
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Thanks in advance for any help.
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If you are not recycling lights, successive shots are under 8 seconds.
Mirror stays up, leaf shutter in lens opens/closes while the sensor is moved in 1 pixel increments.
John, are you saying each multi-shot capture takes total of 8 seconds
when under continuous light?
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John, are you saying each multi-shot capture takes total of 8 seconds
when under continuous light?
I don't think it makes a difference whether its strobe or continuous. There is about a 3 second wait between each of the 4 exposures for Hasselblad. If done correctly, you can be sure that you are getting the absolute sharpest and color accurate photographs from your lenses.
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Sinar and Hasselblad capture software allows adjustment of time between R-G-B-G captures
to allow for full recycling of strobes,
so I'm asking John.Williams if an entire multi-shot capture on the Hasselblad can take as little as 8 seconds
under continuous light, or am I misreading?
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Sinar and Hasselblad capture software allows adjustment of time between R-G-B-G captures
to allow for full recycling of strobes,
so I'm asking John.Williams if an entire multi-shot capture on the Hasselblad can take as little as 8 seconds
under continuous light, or am I misreading?
In my experience (JonathanBenoit), it would take at least 12-15 seconds.
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It is more in the order of 15 to 20 seconds in total and there are not 4 but 5 shots in a Hasselblad Multishot. The Sinar/Jenoptik does it in 4 shots.
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Is the H4D-60 actually shipping?
They (UK reps) told me they were expecting it last month, so we might get it this month.
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It is more in the order of 15 to 20 seconds in total and there are not 4 but 5 shots in a Hasselblad Multishot. The Sinar/Jenoptik does it in 4 shots.
For art repro its usually 4 shots. I think it varies depending on the setup.
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I'm quite allways working in multishoot mode for art reproduction, still live photography, interior architecture and industrial photography. An other view in 1 shot mode can be helpfull to imbricate a moving zone of the image. It could be helpfull.
I'm using Sinar system (camera and digital back).
PdF
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Interesting that the OP has asked about multi-shot on a viewcamera and yet nobody here adressed the need for electronic shutters (Rollei/ Schneider/ Horseman/ Sinar/ Silvestri) that have to be operated remotely from the host software. Some systems are better than oters in that regard and things can get more complicated when movements are employed.
I'm not sure how MS deals with colour cast and luminance falloff for example...two areas where single shot system already have solid workflow solution.
Yair
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For art repro its usually 4 shots. I think it varies depending on the setup.
???
Hasselblad multishot backs take 5 shots in total not four. It does so even in reproduction mode. I am not taking into consideration the small bleep in between the initial shot that takes place before the final 4 shots which also takes a bit of time. I cannot recally what my 384 & 528 did but I know they made 5 as well, if I remember correctly I did not have that small bleep (which nobody sofar has been able to explain to me what it is).
I am pretty sure it does 5 as well on my X-act but I have not used that one the last couple of months but I am pretty sure I would have remembered when it was different than what I am used to.
The only multishot back I used that really took only 4 shots was the Sinar/Jenoptik.
Yes, preferably you use electronic shutters on the view camera. I have them on my Rollei X-act but I don't use this setup for interior shots. Too bulky and with my widest lens being 90mm I find my H more versatile. Before the H I used a DigiFlex. I have refrained from making comments on the use of view cameras in this situation merely because I have not used them for this Removing color cast with multishot images is pretty much the same routine as with single shot. Naturally with the H it is merely ticking a little box to take care of that...
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For art repro its usually 4 shots. I think it varies depending on the setup.
Hasselblad is 5 shot....the first being some sort of reference frame [I was told].
Perhaps David Grover will elaborate?
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Really good comparison between single and multi-shot at http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16173 (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16173)
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I have seen 1000's of garment images both in single as well as multishot and can assure you the differences are large and way beyond what can be covered by sharpening in PS. Moire being one of them but also sharpness and color reproduction. Sure you can always find areas in images where the differences aren't that staggering...
Besides that, not everything is being printed. I use multishot a lot of time for website purposes. There is nothing as nice as being able to pull 100% detail and have them look great. This way you only have to shoot things once and the client can take a lot of details from the original images. Big timesaver...
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Sounds like a real 'need item' then - for garment images on the web.
(Original file size, from either system, would be just over 8' x 6' @ 72ppi)
Speciality suites at The g (http://www.theghotel.ie/speciality-suites.html).
No 100% detail crops in there. Yes, my clients do like to take those and do appreciate being able to do so. If they really need it? Who am I to make that call for them. They like it and that is important enough for me. Mind you, the 100% details are the same with single as well as multishot. The big difference is that the multishot images doesn't have color artefacts and isn't fuzzy nor does it have moire though that isn't entirely true since even multishot images sometimes suffer from both color as well as pattern moire (mostly pattern).
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Hasselblad is 5 shot....the first being some sort of reference frame [I was told].
Perhaps David Grover will elaborate?
This is odd. I just did a demo of the MS back a couple weeks ago and I specifically remember 4 shots and the dealer said that sometimes it does a 5th, but not usually.
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This is odd. I just did a demo of the MS back a couple weeks ago and I specifically remember 4 shots and the dealer said that sometimes it does a 5th, but not usually.
It's been a couple years, but I think you're correct. And I think what is happening (anyone correct me if I'm wrong) is when it does 5 it is doing a pre-shot to judge the light variance between shots (if there is any) and make adjustments for evening out the exposures if there is a variance (that can be handled). Otherwise it would probably give an error informing you of such if the variance was too great to compensate for.
Steve Hendrix
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They (UK reps) told me they were expecting it last month, so we might get it this month.
Thanks. Let's wait and see
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With some multishot backs and software not only was moiré eliminated when shooting a 4-shot, but due to the fact that de-bayering or interpolation was not needed, the colours came out better. I found that with the Jenoptik Precision backs the reds were obviously better in 4-shot mode than 1-shot mode. Look at the shadows of the strawberry below - the red is smoother and doesn't have black artifacts around the edges of fibres etc. If I ever had to shoot red subjects when I owned this back I would use 4-shot mode whenever I could. Although after heavy sharpening and printing in a magazine the difference was probably not noticeable.
I think the better interpolation of modern raw processing software for 1 shot backs has largely overcome this now, because I don't see these dirty reds with my Sinar eMotion back (a one shot back) using eXposure for the processing.
Ben
[attachment=21780:multisho...mparison.jpg]
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It's been a couple years, but I think you're correct. And I think what is happening (anyone correct me if I'm wrong) is when it does 5 it is doing a pre-shot to judge the light variance between shots (if there is any) and make adjustments for evening out the exposures if there is a variance (that can be handled). Otherwise it would probably give an error informing you of such if the variance was too great to compensate for.
Steve Hendrix
Yes, that is correct however the pre-shot cannot be turned off optionally. At least not in Phocus. I will have to fire up Flexcolor to see if it is there but I am not aware it is but it has been a year ago since I used it. Amazing how fast time goes and how much you forget and how fast