Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: paulbk on February 20, 2010, 07:58:56 am
-
Gallup Poll: "Canada retained its top position in Gallup's annual country ratings, with 90% of Americans viewing it favorably, unchanged from 2009."
For me, Luminous Landscape is reason enough for placing Canada first. But I think the real reason is Diana Krall and Michael Bublé. Frankly, I can't blame them. Very photogenic, both. Must be something in the water out there in British Columbia.
More here:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/126116/Canada-P...px?CSTS=alert#1 (http://www.gallup.com/poll/126116/Canada-Places-First-Image-Contest-Iran-Last.aspx?CSTS=alert#1)
-
For those of us who have never heard of Canada I found this reference ...
Perky 'Canada' Has Own Government, Laws (http://www.discospock.com/humor/perkycanda.html)
-
-A Canadian
-
I looked up "Canada" in my Atlas, and it said,
"For the United States, see pages 9 - 22."
(Onion's "Our Dumb World.")
-
Proud to be... [attachment=20386:Canada_128.png]
Mike.
-
Isn't it strange that people take such personal pride in nationality when, truth be told, they had absolutely no say in being born in whichever darn country they happened to see first light?
Rob C
-
I agree that real pride is earned through one's own efforts. But I think once you reach a certain age people can take pride in having the good sense to stay and contribute or not (emigrate). Especially true when both options are freely available.
Isn't it strange that people take such personal pride in nationality when, truth be told, they had absolutely no say in being born in whichever darn country they happened to see first light?
Rob C
-
I agree that real pride is earned through one's own efforts. But I think once you reach a certain age people can take pride in having the good sense to stay and contribute or not (emigrate). Especially true when both options are freely available.
The trouble is, national pride has become something less than appealing in its manifestations. Consider travelling football fans, for example, swathed in national flags, semi-drunk and looking for 'foreigners' to kill, albeit on foreign soil. Extreme, I grant you, but not that far removed from the other side of the spectrum where the better educated or better born - not always the same thing - turn their noses up at the people across whom they come on trips abroad, either because they can't speak English - why should they - or because they follow different customs that can appear quaint if because they are different.
The only tme I think there is much need for national pride is when it comes down to invasion of one's homeland. Then, yes, patriotism is the way to go because it has a genuine purpose.
As for staying or migrating - you weigh up the alternatives and, if you can, make the choice. That's not based on national pride but personal advantage, a far more sensible way of considering the options. As for making contributions - the only ones I can imagine my own lot wanting from me are tax-based. But then, the host countries are also waiting for me (us) to die and 'contribute' a little more.
Love allowing my mind to wander outside the safety of the photo-box! Or do I?
Cheers
Rob C
-
The trouble is, national pride has become something less than appealing in its manifestations. Consider travelling football fans, for example, swathed in national flags, semi-drunk and looking for 'foreigners' to kill, albeit on foreign soil...
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" (Samuel Johnson, 1775)
-
I have no trouble with loyalty to one's country (I'm pretty proud of mine) but I'd like to see us put world citizenship first.
Bill
-
Rob C. -- "The trouble is, national pride has become something less than appealing in its manifestations...."
I agree with every word. As with any human attribute, pride and patriotism can be corrupted and taken to extreme to justify anything. Too often pride is confused with grandiosity and arrogance. Both driven by fear, not pride.
I think pride in community can move people to pick up road side litter, paint their house, and responsibly attend to civic duties. Not bad things.
-
Nationalism and religion. The most destructive forces we know. How many crimes, and of what almost incomprehensible scale, have been caused and then justified by them?
-
I just know we are probably (?) going to get witched off, but without taking it into further, dangerous territory, I'd just like to say that I agree with much that's been said, and that it would all be a good thing if it were possible to handle it (pride in national identity) sanely. But, I guess human nature is a different animal and logic not even skin deep. It strikes me that much of it is used as a sort of substitute for personal failures: we cheer, stamp and scream for national heroes because there is a sort of vicarious satisfaction in the actions of others which remain forever beyond our own powers of achievement; a sort of substitute glory, if you will. Ultimately very sad.
However, all this said, that's no reason not to feel a sense of loyalty to one's roots. It's just the manner in which it is shown that can be problematic at times. Or the way in which the emotion can be distorted to false ends. I live in a country not my own; I feel a great sense of ease with most of the people I come into contact with, have been shown kindness and understanding in most circumstances and have met, generally, with unfailing politeness. However, I know that all this aside, one will never be mistaken for, nor accepted as a citizen. I don't mind this; I even feel that there is a certain cheek in those foreign people wanting to cast political votes at the elections to which they have access. Looking at myself, I know perfectly well that the intricacies of local and national politics are ever beyond my ability to understand: how, then, to cast a sensible vote? Yet there are many foreign people resident here who don't even speak Spanish but insist on using their rights to the ballot... can that be helpful?
Rob C
-
I just know we are probably (?) going to get witched off, but without taking it into further, dangerous territory, I'd just like to say that I agree with much that's been said, and that it would all be a good thing if it were possible to handle it (pride in national identity) sanely. But, I guess human nature is a different animal and logic not even skin deep. It strikes me that much of it is used as a sort of substitute for personal failures: we cheer, stamp and scream for national heroes because there is a sort of vicarious satisfaction in the actions of others which remain forever beyond our own powers of achievement; a sort of substitute glory, if you will. Ultimately very sad.
However, all this said, that's no reason not to feel a sense of loyalty to one's roots. It's just the manner in which it is shown that can be problematic at times. Or the way in which the emotion can be distorted to false ends. I live in a country not my own; I feel a great sense of ease with most of the people I come into contact with, have been shown kindness and understanding in most circumstances and have met, generally, with unfailing politeness. However, I know that all this aside, one will never be mistaken for, nor accepted as a citizen. I don't mind this; I even feel that there is a certain cheek in those foreign people wanting to cast political votes at the elections to which they have access. Looking at myself, I know perfectly well that the intricacies of local and national politics are ever beyond my ability to understand: how, then, to cast a sensible vote? Yet there are many foreign people resident here who don't even speak Spanish but insist on using their rights to the ballot... can that be helpful?
Rob C
I agree 100% with Rob wisdom.
I will just ad that living your country if you can is a wonderful experience (when not because of poverty reasons). I'm not talking about travelling but living daily. It gives you a much more healphy distance about the concepts of identity and membership.
Fred.
-
Gallup Poll: "Canada retained its top position in Gallup's annual country ratings, with 90% of Americans viewing it favorably, unchanged from 2009."
For me, Luminous Landscape is reason enough for placing Canada first. But I think the real reason is Diana Krall and Michael Bublé. Frankly, I can't blame them. Very photogenic, both. Must be something in the water out there in British Columbia.
More here:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/126116/Canada-P...px?CSTS=alert#1 (http://www.gallup.com/poll/126116/Canada-Places-First-Image-Contest-Iran-Last.aspx?CSTS=alert#1)
I can't find the full list of polling questions at the site. Such polls are only meaningful and interesting if we know what the responders' opinions are based upon. (If LL could be the reason for Canada to top the list, perhaps there was a question like, "Which country has the best photographers?" And there was a large number of LL members among the responders. )
If the pollster can question and publish the responders' knowledge of the countries they rank, that will provide some context as well. Such as a country's capital, its continent, its size, its population, etc. But most US responders would probably be so embarrassed that they won't complete the survey.
Without neither, the ranking serves no purpose.
-
I can't find the full list of polling questions at the site. Such polls are only meaningful and interesting if we know what the responders' opinions are based upon. (If LL could be the reason for Canada to top the list, perhaps there was a question like, "Which country has the best photographers?" And there was a large number of LL members among the responders. )
If the pollster can question and publish the responders' knowledge of the countries they rank, that will provide some context as well. Such as a country's capital, its continent, its size, its population, etc. But most US responders would probably be so embarrassed that they won't complete the survey.
Without neither, the ranking serves no purpose.
If Michael moved (house, gallery, web operation -- the whole kit and kaboodle) to Buffalo (to avoid having to use the Toronto airport), and if they then redid the poll, I'm sure we would find that the U.S. had moved up in the standings.
-
This topic has stirred up some interesting controversy; something I must admit I didn't foresee. Since my response may have been at least partially the cause, I thought I'd elaborate a bit on what it means to me to be Canadian (etc.)
Canadians as a whole have an international reputation for being open, warm, welcoming, etc. and those are principles that I do my best to embody as well. Does that mean every Canadian embodies those qualities? Probably not. Does it mean that those qualities are uniquely Canadian? No, certainly not. But they're good ideas, and because my personal values match, more or less, with the perhaps idealized ideas of what it means to be Canadian, I take pride in that. Now, that's only one level of experience. I'm also proud to be human, because, for all of our faults, we've got a lot of good qualities. That makes me a global citizen as well. I'm friendly and helpful with my neighbours as well and they me, so I'm proud of being a part of this community as well. They're not mutually exclusive, at least not to me. Maybe it's 'pride' that's the issue here. Being prideful is often equated with 'arrogance' and that's a bad thing. Here's my wife's view on that:
Value: is acknowledging and honouring your self with and for your self – your gifts and talents and skills and personal traits and abilities.
Arrogance: is, believe it or not, not acknowledging your own value! It is looking to others to validate what you hope might be a valuable quality that you see within yourself by showing off that skill for their approval.
As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I've got to say about that."
Mike.
P.S. Tom Brokaw Explains Canada to the Americans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYoTJItSPt0) (prior to the XXI Olympics)
-
...
Value: is acknowledging and honouring your self with and for your self – your gifts and talents and skills and personal traits and abilities.
Arrogance: is, believe it or not, not acknowledging your own value! It is looking to others to validate what you hope might be a valuable quality that you see within yourself by showing off that skill for their approval.
...
Yes, I agree 100%. There is often a lot of misunderstood about this, so as about what freedom is.
Arrogance always come from doubt and insecurity. Generally a poor self-estime or lack of acknoledging ones value.
Canada is certainly not the worst nation to live in...although I was in Vancouver Island (Nanaimo) and I think it might have more or less the same rate of rain than Cherrapunji...London weather is a joke compared
-
This topic has stirred up some interesting controversy; something I must admit I didn't foresee. Since my response may have been at least partially the cause, I thought I'd elaborate a bit on what it means to me to be Canadian (etc.)
Canadians as a whole have an international reputation for being open, warm, welcoming, etc. and those are principles that I do my best to embody as well. Does that mean every Canadian embodies those qualities? Probably not. Does it mean that those qualities are uniquely Canadian? No, certainly not. But they're good ideas, and because my personal values match, more or less, with the perhaps idealized ideas of what it means to be Canadian, I take pride in that. Now, that's only one level of experience. I'm also proud to be human, because, for all of our faults, we've got a lot of good qualities. That makes me a global citizen as well. I'm friendly and helpful with my neighbours as well and they me, so I'm proud of being a part of this community as well. They're not mutually exclusive, at least not to me. Maybe it's 'pride' that's the issue here. Being prideful is often equated with 'arrogance' and that's a bad thing. Here's my wife's view on that:
Value: is acknowledging and honouring your self with and for your self – your gifts and talents and skills and personal traits and abilities.
Arrogance: is, believe it or not, not acknowledging your own value! It is looking to others to validate what you hope might be a valuable quality that you see within yourself by showing off that skill for their approval.
As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I've got to say about that."
Mike.
P.S. Tom Brokaw Explains Canada to the Americans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYoTJItSPt0) (prior to the XXI Olympics)
Beautifully put, Mike (and Tom Brokaw).
That may explain why I've always felt that Canada is the one country I would feel very comfortable emigrating to. Maybe it's the "grass is always greener" syndrome, but I've always had the sense that a much higher percentage of Canadians have their heads screwed on right than do Americans.
Eric
-
Beautifully put, Mike (and Tom Brokaw).
That may explain why I've always felt that Canada is the one country I would feel very comfortable emigrating to. Maybe it's the "grass is always greener" syndrome, but I've always had the sense that a much higher percentage of Canadians have their heads screwed on right than do Americans.
Eric
So what's not to like about a left-hand thread?
Rob C
-
The thing about migrating is that it is a positive act if you have good reason to move. For artistic people, I think that it can be very conducive to improved creativity (consider the US writers/artists living in Paris pre-war, soaking up the culture and experiences), but I have a suspicion that the fix has a relatively short high before elsewhere becomes the norm and the wanderlust takes hold anew. So you move on... and then, when you are old, you realize you don't really fit in anywhere anymore. Unfortunately, what you can never know is whether you would have felt quite as out-of-step had you never moved from the native hearth - we can never have the two experiences at the same time on which to base judgement of this.
Rob C
-
In a trip to New England (USA) 2 years ago, including visits to Quebec and Montreal, I was disappointed at the bad English (even worse than mine!) spoken but the Canadians I encountered in those cities. And even more dissapointed about the null interest (could even be called rejection) they had for the English language, even if half Canada is English speaking. I thought this only happened in those small old European countries such as Belgium, with ancient language rivalries.
A good thing about Canada: nobody seems to hate that country all around the world. So I bought a pair of sticky Canadian flags to distinguish my Samsonite suitcase for which many times I worried at airports (so many people having exactly the same brand and model). At first I thought about a USA flag since our journey was mainly to New Englad; unfortunately the USA have so many enemies all around the world that made the USA flag not a recommended luggage identification method.
-
In a trip to New England (USA) 2 years ago, including visits to Quebec and Montreal, I was disappointed at the bad English (even worse than mine!) spoken but the Canadians I encountered in those cities. And even more dissapointed about the null interest (could even be called rejection) they had for the English language, even if half Canada is English speaking. I thought this only happened in those small old European countries such as Belgium, with ancient language rivalries.
A good thing about Canada: nobody seems to hate that country all around the world. So I bought a pair of sticky Canadian flags to distinguish my Samsonite suitcase for which many times I worried at airports (so many people having exactly the same brand and model). At first I thought about a USA flag since our journey was mainly to New Englad; unfortunately the USA have so many enemies all around the world that made the USA flag not a recommended luggage identification method.
I live in the Midwest of the USA and don't have much experience with the French speaking part of Canada, but we regard the Canadians as very good neighbors. Unlike New Englanders, they don't even have an accent.
-
We apologize unreservedly for Celine Dion. So sorry. So very, very sorry.
-
Celine who?? Oh Yeah..... her. She was so 2000.
-
Isn't it strange that people take such personal pride in nationality when, truth be told, they had absolutely no say in being born in whichever darn country they happened to see first light?
Rob C
Unless you get to choose your country of nationality and citizenship later on in life.
Graeme
-
Unless you get to choose your country of nationality and citizenship later on in life.
I don't think you have any reason to be proud in that case. IMO the only logical reason to be proud of anything in life is participation. If you didn't participate in the merits achieved by that country of your election, you have no reason to be proud of living there (in any case you just have a reason to feel lucky for it). On the other hand, even if you didn't choose the country you live in, but you actually feel you are contributing to its success, then there is a reason for pride.
Regards
-
In a trip to New England (USA) 2 years ago, including visits to Quebec and Montreal, I was disappointed at the bad English (even worse than mine!) spoken but the Canadians I encountered in those cities. And even more dissapointed about the null interest (could even be called rejection) they had for the English language, even if half Canada is English speaking. I thought this only happened in those small old European countries such as Belgium, with ancient language rivalries.
You are lucky that they spoke English with you at all. Perhaps times had changed. A decade ago in a Quebec City cafe, the waitress refused to respond in English to my request for help with the French menu. I had to point at the next table to order a sandwich. They are not English challenged, but it's a pride and political stand. There were (are?) actually laws about which language(s) shop's signs should be in.