Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: gdwhalen on January 16, 2010, 05:09:01 pm
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Is there going to come a time when we aren't going to be able to have carry on luggage or at least VERY limited carry on luggage?
I recently flew to Houston with my H3d-50 and five lenses. The pack was heavy and the security was tough. They gave me a very hard time to the point that I almost canceled and walked away. No way was I going to check that system. I have been flying with camera equipment for a long time and in the "old days" the only real concern was the effect of x-ray equipment on film but that really wasn't a big deal unless you had multiple layovers and mulitple inspections. But now, with the issues going on they are getting much less tolerant of equipment that they don't understand.
I can't imagine checking $30,000 worth of camera gear.
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Is there going to come a time when we aren't going to be able to have carry on luggage or at least VERY limited carry on luggage?
I recently flew to Houston with my H3d-50 and five lenses. The pack was heavy and the security was tough. They gave me a very hard time to the point that I almost canceled and walked away. No way was I going to check that system. I have been flying with camera equipment for a long time and in the "old days" the only real concern was the effect of x-ray equipment on film but that really wasn't a big deal unless you had multiple layovers and mulitple inspections. But now, with the issues going on they are getting much less tolerant of equipment that they don't understand.
I can't imagine checking $30,000 worth of camera gear.
Guess that is (luckily for Europeans at least) rather an issue in the US than in continental Europe. I am flying almost every week and rarely have issues although security inspections have really become a pain in the you know where.
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I can't imagine checking $30,000 worth of camera gear.
You are quite right, this is not an option in particular when damage to checked luggage is as good as not compensated. I would not do it either and that includes leaving my camera stuff behind at the counter of some museums as well.
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sues going on they are getting much less tolerant of equipment that they don't understand.
I can't imagine checking $30,000 worth of camera gear.
it's just the way it is.
I check cameras a lot, sometimes carry on, but now have our main still kit down to two 1ds3's and a 5d2 with lenses. No more three cases of cameras.
I insure it, don't worry about it and if something happens, I'll just rent or buy when I land.
Let's be realistic, worst case scenario you could buy a 5d2 and a few lenses almost anywhere on the planet.
For large projects we fedex, usually 8 to 12 cases.
No reason to fight it out with the airlines, though if you get a press card, fly established long haul carriers and are lucky enough to go to major markets you will have a lot less angst.
For checking or shipping equipment I take an Iphone photo of every image including a closeup of the label.
I do the same with rentals such as grip trucks. Any dent, any scrape I document, takes about 3 minutes so when it's returned you take no crap about who did it. Same with license plates so if something get's towed you know the number.
[attachment=19501:fedx.jpg][attachment=19502:grip2.jpg]
BC
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I just got back from Grand Junction Colorado. I have one major carry on, my pelican case that holds the digi back, Arca, 6 lenses and a sliding back... that's worth about 60 grand. No problem fitting it in the overhead on most jets. On the puddle jumpers I just make sure my assistant and I are seated together and we can fit it under the two seats in front of us.
Coming home from Colorado, the agent was about to give us a gate check tag for the pelican and then was like, "Oh, is that your camera? Nevermind" Whenever I'm entering tricky territory with travel employees, I always start with a smile and explain my side of things without getting cocky... goes a long way.
-CB
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Good tip about the iPhone photos.
Could you explain about the presscard ?
I'm flying to NY in April to teach workshops so I have to carry both the mf and dslr kit.
I will be travelling with my wife and two backpacks with the gear and don't want check them.
I do have a presscard so that remark caught my eye.
Over here the card opens a lot of doors in difficult shooting areas.
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it's just the way it is.
BC
BC,
just out of curiosity, what kind of case is this? I've heard from friends and fellow colleauges about the "perils" of flying(especially int'l) with gear. Most have told me that generally the load is spread evenly amongst all those going, to keep the weight down in each bag, and also, less chance of everything getting lost at once(being in 1 bag).
-Dan
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Let's be realistic, worst case scenario you could buy a 5d2 and a few lenses almost anywhere on the planet.
BC
...Trouble is that you cannot buy an H4D-60, a Sinar P3, a sliding back and a full set of ready-mounted apo-digitars in electronic shutters anywhere on the planet in less than ¿ 2 or three weeks?
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The best way to fight this is to let the airlines, tour operators and politicians know that you're fed up with the outrageous measures in the name of what Bruce Schneier calls "security theater (http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/11/beyond_security.html)".
Write the airline telling them that the "security" measures are not in line with the threat posed by terrorism, don't just complain at the check-in desk. Let them know that you are driving, taking the train, or forgoing travel every time you do so.
Write your elected official that rather than living in fear and let terrorists win by taking your/our freedoms away, you'd prefer to have the money invested in actions which make a difference rather than ineffective or invasive measures, such as forcing people to sit during the last hour of the flight, or subjecting them to digital strip searches.
It pisses me off to no end that a guy with fiery underpants causes billions of dollars worth of damage in the form of increased "security" measures, lost business and stress, seriously inconveniencing millions of travelers, and making people jumpy enough that someone suffering from food poisoning on a flight is arrested (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/christmas-day-terrorist-attack-sparks-racial-profiling-debate/story?id=9438459).
While this is not the place to discuss the matter at length, we have to start doing something, otherwise everyone will be anesthetized on flights in the future
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Long time ago that I saw the name of Bruce Schneier come by, I certainly would not have expected it in a photography related area. More in something like applied crypto which is all about security. I agree the measures on flying are ridiculous when you start to really think about it. They are excessive, mostly only bothering travelers and not diminishing any terror related risk in a really big way. A lot of money to diminish a very particular kind of threat in an extremely inefficient way. Due to the self imposed imprisonment it can be stated terror has already won...
I take as few as possible on a trip abroad. I never check in anything of value. We recently had a documentary over here what is happening behind the curtains with your luggage... this is not encouraging to ever check in something again.
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just recently traveled from australia back to taiwan
had a carry on pelican filled to the brim and got asked at check in how much the weight was
2 hassy lenses and a h3d plus laptop was too much, as the pelican case already without anything is nearly 7 kg
I had to remove the equipment from the case and was lucky I had a coat with large and deep pockets
stuck the lenses in the pockets and hung the camera body and laptop bag around my shoulder and passed through
check in, security and immigration without a problem, afterwards put the lot back together without further problems.
I think from now on when flying, I will always carry a simple vest with large pockets!!
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We recently had a documentary over here what is happening behind the curtains with your luggage... this is not encouraging to ever check in something again.
What's the name of the documentary?
Kumar
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It was one of those local (Dutch) television reporter things going in behind the scenes with cameras to show the world what is actually going on there.
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just recently traveled from australia back to taiwan
had a carry on pelican filled to the brim and got asked at check in how much the weight was
2 hassy lenses and a h3d plus laptop was too much, as the pelican case already without anything is nearly 7 kg
I had to remove the equipment from the case and was lucky I had a coat with large and deep pockets
stuck the lenses in the pockets and hung the camera body and laptop bag around my shoulder and passed through
check in, security and immigration without a problem, afterwards put the lot back together without further problems.
I think from now on when flying, I will always carry a simple vest with large pockets!!
Sounds like many of my international check-ins (outside of N America)
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We're always flying with 2 backbacks with gear. Those are light and complete both are just below 10kg.
Funny thing is I always have to open the mf backpack and not the DSLR one.
50% of the guys appears to be photographers and want to know what that big thing is
up untill now no problems but I'm also afraid for the future.
In a few years we have to fly in a dress and slippers given by checkin while our clothes are checked and returned on location.
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I just don't understand, why air carriers do not offer a premium package where you pay for your hand luggage to be thoroghly checked. so if you want your 30 000€ camera with you, you need to pay 50 or 100$ and have to show up 15 minutes earlier, but you are allowed to take it with you. so most people would decide to leave their stuff checked, but thos who need it have peace of mind.
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Jean-Louis Lioret, a 66 years old man, is currently incarcerated at the Central Prison of Abu Dhabi.
On board traveling from Paris to Bangkok via Abu Dhabi, he replied, jokingly, to a neighbor asking him to put a package next to him: "I hope it ' is not a bomb.
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...9994/0/general1 (http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100117/NATIONAL/701179994/0/general1)
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Jean-Louis Lioret, a 66 years old man, is currently incarcerated at the Central Prison of Abu Dhabi.
On board traveling from Paris to Bangkok via Abu Dhabi, he replied, jokingly, to a neighbor asking him to put a package next to him: "I hope it ' is not a bomb.
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...9994/0/general1 (http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100117/NATIONAL/701179994/0/general1)
The world has gone crazy.
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The world has gone crazy.
There have been a number of stories over the past few years of passengers making jokes about bombs at airports, with horrendous consequences. I would tend to agree with Michael R in his recent article on air travel, if you can avoid it, do so. Unfortunately getting to the US, where most of the problems seem to occur, is not usually too easy on the train or by road.
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The world has gone crazy.
Yes, it is crazy, but what is the answer?
Reduce he security and after the next attempt actually works, who will scream for the security agents (and politicians) heads the loudest?
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The world has gone crazy.
Just wait until the governments of the world unify and a required electronic ID is given to every human being... for your safely of course.
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Yes, it is crazy, but what is the answer?
Reduce he security and after the next attempt actually works, who will scream for the security agents (and politicians) heads the loudest?
to live your time free and happy without fear , and to accept to die when it will come
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Just wait until the governments of the world unify and a required electronic ID is given to every human being... for your safely of course.
Our government has already started this, including the mandatory fingerprint sets of every citizen as well. Next thing they are working on is a GPS transponder in all of our cars for which we have to pay ourselves. Yeah, there is a reason why the Dutch were called the Chinese of the West...
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to live your time free and happy without fear , and to accept to die when it will come
Not by the hands of some crazed lunatic terrorist, if I can help it.
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The part that really bothers me is that they WILL eventually force everyone to check their luggage but they won't do anything to protect that persons property in the luggage. Insurance is obviously an option but that won't do you much good when you arrive in Africa, South America, Alaska, Iceland, etc etc without your gear and only 3-4 days to shoot.
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Yes, it is crazy, but what is the answer?
Reduce he security and after the next attempt actually works, who will scream for the security agents (and politicians) heads the loudest?
I agree with Mr Schneier: it's security theater, not real security. There's no way to consolidate a free society and absolute security, so we have to just learn to live with the fact that 50 times more Americans die in lightning strikes than terrorist attacks (http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2010/01/odds_of_dying_in_terrorist_attack_on_airline_1_in_25_million_struck_by_lightning_1_in_500000.php). The investment should be in diplomacy rather than further security theater.
And it wouldn't hurt if westerners grew a set of balls and stopped demanding a nanny state. But it seems I'm asking too much judging from the repeated "oh well, if it makes me safer it's ok I guess" -statements from laypeople in the news.
Oh, and the Christmas terrorist attack wasn't an "attempt" - the guy cause literally billions worth of damage spanning years ahead in his "failed" attempt. Again, terrorists have won.
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so we have to just learn to live with the fact that 50 times more Americans die in lightning strikes than terrorist attacks. n.
I can't believe I'm getting into this debate but....
Maybe its because we can stop terrorist attacks but can't stop lightning?
Back to lurking for me now, before I get myself in trouble.
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I can't believe I'm getting into this debate but....
Maybe its because we can stop terrorist attacks but can't stop lightning?
Back to lurking for me now, before I get myself in trouble.
We can't stop lightening strikes but we spend a lot of money directing and channeling them so that they don't cause damage.
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I can't believe I'm getting into this debate but....
Maybe its because we can stop terrorist attacks but can't stop lightning?
Back to lurking for me now, before I get myself in trouble.
That's a false premise: we can't stop terrorism because it's a tactic, not a person or a group.
But agreed, I'm done with this subject here - back to photography.
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That's a false premise: we can't stop terrorism because it's a tactic, not a person or a group.
But agreed, I'm done with this subject here - back to photography.
Thank you feppe, I agree that if we're to have this discussion it needs to be moved to "the coffee corner", and I'm happy to exchange ideas and opinions there as long as we keep it respectful and polite.
By the way, I said we can stop attacks, not terrorism itself. It is indeed a tactic, but there things we can do about that too.
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i always use bags like the big lowepro......pelican cases are too big and heavy....they also scream "check me, please!" at security....
i have flown US-europe at least one or twice a year for the last 20 years and always thought (to myself) that with the stuff i am carrying on, i should be able to hide a bomb without any problems....2 or 3 cameras, lenses, flashes (handheld), laptop, batteries, chargers, pdas, cellphone,.....i really want to know how they can tell a spare laptop battery from plastic explosives....
make sure you have the local rental place prepared or at least their number and have talked to them....
and of course: a 5DII is available and relatively cheap (almost) anywhere.....and will do almost any job....
as for security checks: i am always amazed by: how many people have to wear belts, (or have to wear clothing with metal rings, hooks, studs,....) have a large amount of change(!), shoes that take 5 min to get on and off and generally (after wasting 5 minutes putting all this in the trays) walk through the scanner with their wallet or cellphone, so the whole dance starts over.....those are the people responsible for half the time in line....
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as for security checks: i am always amazed by: how many people have to wear belts, (or have to wear clothing with metal rings, hooks, studs,....) have a large amount of change(!), shoes that take 5 min to get on and off and generally (after wasting 5 minutes putting all this in the trays) walk through the scanner with their wallet or cellphone, so the whole dance starts over.....those are the people responsible for half the time in line....
Because I don't let terrorists dictate the way I dress or what I keep in my pockets.
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Because I don't let terrorists dictate the way I dress or what I keep in my pockets.
i thought you were done with this?
but since you are: your answer to terrorism is to create long lines in airport security checks by carrying a pound in change, 2 belts and kneehigh lace up boots.....that is very adult! that is what i call activism...
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What’s ironic is that once Homeland Security, Transportation Security Admin took over from the FAA the new bosses all told the Air Security Special Agents from the FAA that 9/11 was basically their fault and TSA can and will do it better. It’s now 9 years later and the more thing change the more they stay the same.
I know this as I heard it myself from senior TSA management after they abolished all the FAA Special Agents jobs and forced them into the TSA. Am I bitter? Maybe a little, however I ended up retiring shortly afterwards and haven’t been to an airport since let alone on an airplane. I drive where I want to go. I’d consider a boat ride before I’ll fly again.
Cheers
Don
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... it's security theater, not real security. There's no way to consolidate a free society and absolute security, so we have to just learn to live with the fact that 50 times more Americans die in lightning strikes than terrorist attacks (http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2010/01/odds_of_dying_in_terrorist_attack_on_airline_1_in_25_million_struck_by_lightning_1_in_500000.php). The investment should be in diplomacy rather than further security theater.
And it wouldn't hurt if westerners grew a set of balls and stopped demanding a nanny state. But it seems I'm asking too much judging from the repeated "oh well, if it makes me safer it's ok I guess" -statements from laypeople in the news.
Oh, and the Christmas terrorist attack wasn't an "attempt" - the guy cause literally billions worth of damage spanning years ahead in his "failed" attempt. Again, terrorists have won.
Amen, brother!
In spite of this "theater of the absurd" getting more and more grotesque, actual "security" has hardly improved in the ten years since 9/11. Today, as then, you stand statistically the same chance of carrying a gun or knife or even bomb through airport checkpoints unnoticed (and that chance is very significant: between 20-40% on average):
"... In tests conducted in 2006 and disclosed to USA Today last year, investigators successfully smuggled 75 percent of fake bombs through checkpoints at Los Angeles International Airport, 60 percent through Chicago's O'Hare International Airport and 20 percent at San Francisco International Airport..." (from a CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/28/tsa.bombtest/index.html) (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/28/tsa.bombtest/index.html))
In the meantime, morons in charge did not consider it "credible enough" or "actionable" when a high-ranking father rats out his own son, which then buys a one-way cash ticket and boards a plane to an a$$-freezing destination in the middle of winter with no luggage (except for a "warm" underwear).
The best airport security is done thousands of miles away from any airport.
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Checking
I dont own any peli cases because they are too tempting
I use really 'naff' lugguage - a cheap suitcase with my billingham bag inside giving the actual protections - my latest suitcase is bright red having been rejected as 'uncool' by my friends 10 year old daughter - I think it still has some Disney stickers on it
I carry on my primary billingham with enough bodies and lenses to do the job
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as for security checks: i am always amazed by: how many people have to wear belts, (or have to wear clothing with metal rings, hooks, studs,....) have a large amount of change(!), shoes that take 5 min to get on and off and generally (after wasting 5 minutes putting all this in the trays) walk through the scanner with their wallet or cellphone, so the whole dance starts over.....those are the people responsible for half the time in line....
I couldn't agree more: man did and do I loose my patience when those people walk through!
Thierry
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The world really has gone mad (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/twitter-joke-led-to-terror-act-arrest-and-airport-life-ban-1870913.html). Last line of the article is priceless.
Yeah yeah, I'm done...
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I used to break into cold sweats at airports, when I was shooting on the 5/4 my travel kit weighed in 45-50k
things are much easier now with the arca/leaf kit but still we are looking at 15-20 k excl tripod
another photographer put me onto this company
http://www.thinktankphoto.com/categories/r...amera-bags.aspx (http://www.thinktankphoto.com/categories/rolling-camera-bags.aspx)
fantastic i cram it with 20+kilos and it looks like your standard roll on, the lap top slides in a pouch at the back
I have had to drop it into their carry on luggage box a couple of times but thankfully have never been asked to weigh it
so light in fact that on a recent trip to India my checked in luggage (1 case ;0)) only weighed 13k
had to go out and buy a whole load of shorts etc in mumbai
best
Edmund
www.edmundsumner.co.uk
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You should all go and see Up In The Air (http://www.theupintheairmovie.com) (some nice aerial shots there)
There are weeks where I go through airport security 4-6 times, carrying the exact same bag, with the same laptop/ camera/ lenses/ cables/ chargers/ batteries/ HD's/ toothbrush etc. and often wearing the same jacket/ belt/ shoes (no laces) and carrying the same mobile phone.
I can go through the exact same security station, manned by the same people on a Tuesday and they will strip everything off and pull me to one side for a 3rd degree and then on the Thursday of the same week I'd just sail through.
The bag is always over the low cost airlines' weight limit...but it only gets the Orange sticker 2 out of 10 times...(that sticker IS removable BTW...)
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I can offer a thousand suggestions for moving equipment round' da world, but if you want to limit your lighting kit, move to umbrellas.
One case of umbrellas and you can have 8' to 2' modifiers that are soft, hard, directional or broad and they cost like a buck fifty a piece.
You don't need specialty cases, speed rings, you usually don't need heavy stands and with a magic clamp you can usually mount a monolight and a continuous light on each stand, so you can switch from flash to continuous (still to video) in an instant.
BC
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I can offer a thousand suggestions for moving equipment round' da world, but if you want to limit your lighting kit, move to umbrellas.
I had one hell of a quarter at the end of 2009. To address this baggage issue, I took the fees from those jobs, and in the downtime, I've been hopping on international flights. I go on there with a special handmade bracket that I came up with in my one-room cabin in Montana -- it holds two Canon 5D2s. One is set to Video; the other one is set to still JPG High. (I tested my rig with two medium format cameras, but they wouldn't shoot at high enough ASA, and there was moire in the underwear pattern, and there was mirror slap from the plane turbulence, and the file sizes were ridiculously large for internet download). I also travel with a writer and a Navy Seal by my side. My plan is to hopefully be seated next to The Next HalfAss Underwear Guy, and when he whips out his untested gear, I'll be there with my double-cable-release, shooting Video and Stills. The plan is for the Navy Seal to take the guy down while I'm shooting my Canon 5D2's, and the Video footage will be marketed, via the onboard internet feed, to CNN, or anyone else that'll bid higher, and the stills will be marketed thru Getty. Bidding starts at seven figures for each media. After that, the writer that's with me will be downloading his pitch to my pre-arranged Hollywood agents, for movie rights of the story of the takedown by the Navy Seal. I will take the proceeds from these acquisitions and buy my own GulfStream IV, so I'll never have to allow TSA to do a full-body-scan of me, thus exposing my Achilles Heel, and having the girls continue to laugh at me.
If I was on a job, I'd certainly consider shipping the gear in a hard pelican, with ZipTies, in advance, via Fedex or DHL or related. If I was carrying it on, I'd get one of those Marlin Perkins vests, and fill each pocket, and check the rest. I'd also make double-sure that everything was insured, world wide. I've heard lots of stories from photographers, about the gear arriving, and there's a body or lens conveniently missing. We try to walk it over to TSA, and ask them nicely to slip ZipTies into the slots, after they've zapped it. Sometimes they'll do it, if you're nice. Sometimes not, if they're stressed.
I hit the road Wednesday for many cities; I've been researching it too:
Photographers should note the following items
Photographers should be aware that cameras, lenses and electronics are NOT covered by the airline's lost or damaged luggage policy, so if at all possible photographic equipment (and computers) should to placed in your carry-on baggage and NOT in your checked baggage. In fact most airlines won't compensate you for anything that they lose or damage in your checked baggage except for clothing. If you have no choice but to ship photographic items in checked baggage, make sure you either have them independently insured or that you can afford to lose them.
Note that the TSA allows airlines to permit passengers to carry on a bag of photographic equipment (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1248.shtm) in addition to the standard carry-on and one personal item. However most airlines restrict passengers to one carry-on and one personal item only.
Effective January 1, 2008, you may not pack spare lithium batteries in your checked baggage. You may pack spare lithium batteries in your carry-on baggage.
For travelers departing from airports in the USA, the TSA has a list of prohibited items here - http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/pro...ited-items.shtm (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm)
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Effective January 1, 2008, you may not pack spare lithium batteries in your checked baggage. You may pack spare lithium batteries in your carry-on baggage.
For travelers departing from airports in the USA, the TSA has a list of prohibited items here
Today flew to LAX. 13 checked bags, 6 carry ons with three people. Same procedure as always, no extra checks, no different limits on the carry ons, same type of security check, no problems.
Actually maybe because it was a Holiday, easier faster than usual. There was some guy that had a roller case and brief case and together the thing seemed taller than him. He could have been smuggling short people it was so big.
In regards to Lithium or any batteries I have a standing rule to put a tab of gaff tape over all contacts. Maybe it's overkill, maybe not.
BC
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Today flew to LAX. 13 checked bags, 6 carry ons with three people. Same procedure as always, no extra checks, no different limits on the carry ons, same type of security check, no problems.
Actually maybe because it was a Holiday, easier faster than usual. There was some guy that had a roller case and brief case and together the thing seemed taller than him. He could have been smuggling short people it was so big.
In regards to Lithium or any batteries I have a standing rule to put a tab of gaff tape over all contacts. Maybe it's overkill, maybe not.
BC
You are the man!!
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What really pisses me off about air travel are Mr and Mrs Lard Arse. They sail through check-in, a combined weight of 600lbs, and yet I'm the one that's pulled because my camera bag is 1 KG over. Once air-side the Lard Arses proceed to buy up Duty Free and struggle to climb the aircraft stairs with their laden bags.
Makes me mad.
soon mr and mrs lard arse are going to have to pay extra if they want to fly with KLM or Air france
hopefully more airlines will follow suit
sorry only dutch article
http://www.nrc.nl/economie/article2462753....duurder_bij_KLM (http://www.nrc.nl/economie/article2462753.ece/Vliegen_voor_dikke_mensen_duurder_bij_KLM)
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What really pisses me off about air travel are Mr and Mrs Lard Arse. They sail through check-in, a combined weight of 600lbs, and yet I'm the one that's pulled because my camera bag is 1 KG over. Once air-side the Lard Arses proceed to buy up Duty Free and struggle to climb the aircraft stairs with their laden bags.
Makes me mad.
+1
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{ignore}
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body scanner at work....works great!
german TV (http://www.americablog.com/2010/01/german-tv-highlights-failings-of-body.html)