Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: rogerxnz on January 02, 2010, 06:07:53 pm
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I am on holiday trying to recharge two Samsung 7.4v SDV-SBL-160 packs for my Aptus 17 using the Samsung charger BC-L1Q that I got with the A17.
When I insert a battery, the indicator light flashes orange and then, instead of (eventually) flashing green, the indicator light flashes red. This happens about 2 minutes after I insert the battery. I have left the battery in this state for some hours and nothing changes. I have tried the battery in the digital back but there is no power.
This behaviour is repeated with the second battery that I have tried to recharge.
The only difference between my holiday setup and what I have at home is the mains cable—I am now using a generic cable to avoid unplugging the one I use at home.
I understand using the incorrect cable could be the cause of my problems but the other possibility is that the charger is defective.
I have seen some Aptus battery chargers listed on eBay. Has anyone tried them? Do they work?
Anyone got a Samsung charger BC-L1Q for sale?
Roger
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i've bought Hahnel MCL103 charger for samsung and Hahnel batteries SBL 160s or double capacity SBL320s
works well
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I am on holiday trying to recharge two Samsung 7.4v SDV-SBL-160 packs for my Aptus 17 using the Samsung charger BC-L1Q that I got with the A17.
When I insert a battery, the indicator light flashes orange and then, instead of (eventually) flashing green, the indicator light flashes red. This happens about 2 minutes after I insert the battery. I have left the battery in this state for some hours and nothing changes. I have tried the battery in the digital back but there is no power.
This behaviour is repeated with the second battery that I have tried to recharge.
The only difference between my holiday setup and what I have at home is the mains cable—I am now using a generic cable to avoid unplugging the one I use at home.
I understand using the incorrect cable could be the cause of my problems but the other possibility is that the charger is defective.
I have seen some Aptus battery chargers listed on eBay. Has anyone tried them? Do they work?
Anyone got a Samsung charger BC-L1Q for sale?
Roger
Roger, I replied on the Leaf forum as well but basically a Red light means no charge, typically due to a faulty battery but in your case it does sound like the charger is broken.
There are many chargers in the market but in my experience the Hahnel and the Samsung are the fastest.
Yair
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Just curious to know, how many shot u can take from a battery?
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Just curious to know, how many shot u can take from a battery?
Between 0 and about 1,000, depending on time, temperature, length of exposures, usage of the LCD....
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We have a Hahnel Power Station Twin V Pro Video charger that is compatible with a wide range of batteries, adapters included. It includes a plate for the Leaf, plate T9, and a plate for the Phase, plate T4. We like this model for it has LCD meters vs just a blinking LED. Cost is $110.00 US.
Best,
Rich Andres
Foto Care Digital
41 West 22nd Street
NY, NY 10010
212-741-2990
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My experience with an Aptus 22 is you get about 2 hours of continuous operation from 1 battery, or maybe 150-200 frames of normal use (during those 2 hours). 1000 frames, not so sure about that, was never my experience. I think the time limit is more accurate than frames. If you want to shoot for 8 hours, then have 4 batteries. In cold weather, expect a battery to last less than 1 hour.
Hi John, 1,000 frames is more like a lab test in optimal conditions. Fresh new battery, screen off and finger down. This is probably more relevant to fashion when shooting long bursts with short breaks.
Otherwise I would agree about 2-2.5 hrs of "normal" use. On an electronic camera (Phase/ Mamiya/ Contax/ H) it'll be closer to 2.5 hrs and on a mechanical body a bit less.
I was shooting in the snow a couple of weeks ago at 0ºc for about 1.5 hrs with 2 batteries which I swapped every 15 minutes so they both still had some 50% charge left in them at the end.
Yair
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Just curious to know, how many shot u can take from a battery?
Back in my Atpus 22 Contax days, I used those big honking double sized batteries, that kind of looked like a GMC truck battery hanging out from the bottom and could get about 300 frames before they got goofy, though I had to be careful with knocking the camera around as they are heavy and hang below the back and every now and then would lose connection.
I also found the third party batteries were not that consistent. One would last a long time, others not so much.
I did find that with the Contax battery life, (as well as shooting speed) depended on whether I autofocused or used manual focus. On manual everything went faster, on auto slower and I noticed this tethering also.
To me if the Aptus had one fault, it was the battery placement because it gets in the way of the firewire connection, so I guess that's why you can't use a battery and a computer both for power when tethering.
If the Aptus had a strong point it was the look of the files, especially the A22. Under the right conditions I loved the way they produced skin tones and always shot it at 200 iso, even though it added some noise, it was to me very pretty. The two downsides was I couldn't see the image on the back of the camera when tethering. I got tired of always running back to the computer station to see so I finally made a tripod powerbook station that I kept next to the camera (when possible) so I could see the image and tethered a 30" monitor to another station for the clients to view. The second issue was the A22 would moire quickly, but if shot only beauty I would have used it forever.
The real positives of the Aptus is the touch screen interface is very well thought out (mostly), and though the preview is rough, at least it's big. Also if you shot black and white you could set it to see black and white, which my Phase plus backs won't do.
BC
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The two downsides was I couldn't see the image on the back of the camera when tethering. I got tired of always running back to the computer station to see so I finally made a tripod powerbook station that I kept next to the camera (when possible) so I could see the image and tethered a 30" monitor to another station for the clients to view. The second issue was the A22 would moire quickly, but if shot only beauty I would have used it forever.
BC
Just FYI - the new Aptus II series produce the image on the LCD while shooting tethered.
Steve Hendrix
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http://www.batteries.com/webapp/wcs/stores...amp;Ntt=SB-L160 (http://www.batteries.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ControllerView?storeId=10052&catalogId=10550&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=SB-L160)
Chargers are $10. Batteries are $17. I've seen higher capacity batteries (2500 mAh) for closer to $25. Do an internet search.
Happy New Year.
Rich
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I am new to Aptus and my set was bought from some pro users.
You guys seems having a fair number of shots, my A17 can operate only 30mins/50shots.
And YES, today i got the same problem as Rogerxnz, the charger flash with red light. I believe the battery has problem.
I experienced some replacement battery and charger for my Nikon D3, they are cheap ($1x for the battery and charger) and reliable, and actually works better than the Nikon Genuine Battery!
I may going to buy 4 L160s (L320 is double capacity, but it is way too big with my A17 and Rz67!!!), may report back at here!
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If the Aptus had a strong point it was the look of the files, especially the A22. Under the right conditions I loved the way they produced skin tones and always shot it at 200 iso, even though it added some noise, it was to me very pretty. The two downsides was I couldn't see the image on the back of the camera when tethering. I got tired of always running back to the computer station to see so I finally made a tripod powerbook station that I kept next to the camera (when possible) so I could see the image and tethered a 30" monitor to another station for the clients to view. The second issue was the A22 would moire quickly, but if shot only beauty I would have used it forever.
The real positives of the Aptus is the touch screen interface is very well thought out (mostly), and though the preview is rough, at least it's big. Also if you shot black and white you could set it to see black and white, which my Phase plus backs won't do.
BC
Hi BC
Yes Aptus produces very good skin tone and details, my A17 works well too. ISO 400 is usable with fair light condition and noise reduction software. Really can't wait to hear Phaseone to release new C1 to support our Aptus Backs.
Did you find out the Aptus ISO sensitive is underrate? Usually I have to set lower ISO in Sekonic Meter to get right exposure. (No problem for my Nikon D3 and Panasonic GF1)
Also can you show your powerbook station? I am interested to build one for studio and outdoor use, to support helding my MBP.
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... my A17 works well too ... Really can't wait to hear Phaseone to release new C1 to support our Aptus Backs.
Maybe not a good idea to get too excited about that until you speak to a dealer
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Maybe not a good idea to get too excited about that until you speak to a dealer
Can you give more detail about it?
Isn't C1 is going to support old Aptus MOS files?
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Can you give more detail about it?
Isn't C1 is going to support old Aptus MOS files?
no, unless you send it to leaf with some cash to have an upgrade... but not shure they will offer it for the 17 !
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This is pretty murky, so I suggest contacting your dealer or Leaf directly . The lack of interest of any of the myriad dealers/reps that frequent this board should give you a clue as to how hopeful you should be.
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This is pretty murky, so I suggest contacting your dealer or Leaf directly . The lack of interest of any of the myriad dealers/reps that frequent this board should give you a clue as to how hopeful you should be.
I think the lack of formal response is because the issue of legacy Aptus support for Capture One is still being sorted out - to some degree. As far as I know, my understanding is that Capture One file compatibility with all Aptus products will be forthcoming. It already exists of course for Aptus II. Tethered support is another matter. There is a committment to tethered support for Aptus II, but beyond that is not clear at this point.
I could be wrong - but this is my current understanding.
Steve Hendrix
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The real positives of the Aptus is the touch screen interface is very well thought out (mostly), and though the preview is rough, at least it's big. Also if you shot black and white you could set it to see black and white, which my Phase plus backs won't do.
The Aptus-II series will show the image on the LCD (if desired) while you're shooting tethered and will also reflect curves/color adjustments that you make and save in LC11 on the back of the Back's LCD and you can zoom in on the preview ON the LCD while shooting tethered. It's a very neat feature. The iPhone/iPodTouch application adds another cool-but-also-actually-useful layer of wireless review while shooting tethered. Leaf has come a long way since the Aptus 22.
The view-in-bw option is present on the P40+ and P65+ but is not available in previous versions.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
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This is pretty murky, so I suggest contacting your dealer or Leaf directly . The lack of interest of any of the myriad dealers/reps that frequent this board should give you a clue as to how hopeful you should be.
Sorry just haven't been around or missed looking at this post again. The price list from Nov. 15th, 2009, offers a 2 year Extended Warranty for Aptus II & Aptus* series backs, the * list that it includes a firmware upgrade / future software compatibility for the Aptus series, for a cost of $2,600.00. You might consider this a lot but it's actually less expensive then the previous Leaf Extended warranty. This upgrade is suppose to allow Aptus users the capability to use Capture One software when it is available for the Leaf Aptus backs. Since we were a Leaf Dealer and not Phase - new to Leaf-Phase, I would still check in with your local support on what this means for you, how is the work completed, how long it takes, when will the software be completed. I'm getting an order to do our first upgrade shortly and will post the results when we get them.
Best,
Rich Andres
Foto Care
NY, NY
212-741-2990
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Can you give more detail about it?
Isn't C1 is going to support old Aptus MOS files?
I have confirmation that there will be support for Legacy Aptus files for Capture One without any warranty upgrade or dollars changing hands. This is for file compatibility only, tethered support has not yet been determined, regardless of warranty status, etc.
The only gottcha may be Aptus 17 support, but there's no reason why if there is commitment for compatibility for all other Aptus that the 17 would be excluded. However, I can only confirm support for all Aptus models and likely support for Aptus 17. As soon as I receive confirmation on the Aptus 17, I'll let you know.
Steve Hendrix
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I have confirmation that there will be support for Legacy Aptus files for Capture One without any warranty upgrade or dollars changing hands. This is for file compatibility only, tethered support has not yet been determined, regardless of warranty status, etc.
The only gottcha may be Aptus 17 support, but there's no reason why if there is commitment for compatibility for all other Aptus that the 17 would be excluded. However, I can only confirm support for all Aptus models and likely support for Aptus 17. As soon as I receive confirmation on the Aptus 17, I'll let you know.
Steve Hendrix
Ok, so it's murky, but slightly less murky. At least you have some kind of answer. You may or may not be able to use C1 with the A17 files.
While I think making C1 work with legacy files without money changing hands is the appropriate decision, as a dealer how do you justify the $2600 upgrade to your clientele, considering this economy and the state of the competition ($2600 is roughly the price of a d700 or 5d2 body, half the price of a used A22 from a private seller, and 1/3 the price of a used A75 or new Aptus II-5)?
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Ok, so it's murky, but slightly less murky. At least you have some kind of answer. You may or may not be able to use C1 with the A17 files.
While I think making C1 work with legacy files without money changing hands is the appropriate decision, as a dealer how do you justify the $2600 upgrade to your clientele, considering this economy and the state of the competition ($2600 is roughly the price of a d700 or 5d2 body, half the price of a used A22 from a private seller, and 1/3 the price of a used A75 or new Aptus II-5)?
Correct - not murky for Aptus 22 and higher in terms of file compatibility support with Capture One, but still not clear on Aptus 17.
As a Leaf dealer, I have not pushed any customers towards purchasing an extended warranty for $2,600 for the sole purpose of Capture One compatibility precisely because I'm not clear whether they will have to yet. So with that removed, this becomes an option for those who choose to extend their warranty primarily for warranty coverage purposes.
Usually purchasers of extended warranties have justified that purchase to themselves. Few clients call me and ask me would I recommend buying additional warranty. But those that do then take part in a discussion about their current investment and how they use it, how long they plan to continue to use it, alternatives to coverage (cheap backups, etc).
Steve Hendrix
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Yes I 'm asking for confirmation also from Phase-Leaf. This situation isn't clear and I'm about to send systems in to Phase-Leaf and want to get the correct story.
As a LONG time Leaf dealer we were told to have compatibility with Capture One, older Aptus backs Pre-Phase purchase of Leaf, would need to have their firmware upgraded (sent to Phase) by purchasing the 2 year Extended Warranty to use Capture One. This story changed several times at Photo Expo and I thought was corrected and sorted out because of the uproar it caused.
Extended Warranties are a game of risk. Do you believe that your system will have a problem and do you what to have coverage. Manufactures believe you wont have a problem and want your money - it becomes a profit center for them.
Currently if you own a PrePhase Leaf back purchased from Leaf America/your dealer, your service and support is still provided by MAC Group in Elmsford NY (AKA Leaf America). Here in NYC I generally get 1-2 day turn around of Leaf warranty repairs - out of warranty repairs. If your one of my customers, depending on the age of your back and when purchased, you get a loaner system if needed. A customer with warranty coverage is always offered a loaner. A customer with a back purchased several years ago ( Valeo 6, Valeo 11, Valeo 22) and no warranty maybe a reduced rate rental. If you by a new Leaf back your service is now provided by Phase-Leaf.
One consideration for out of warranty repairs is that the prices have changed! A repair that was maybe $400-$600 is now up to $1300 +/- because the change in parts cost. Leaf Aptus owners should consider that the previous extended warranties were any where from $3000-$4500 per year, Phase-Leaf 2 year Extended warranty is $2600.00 for two years.
I'm not saying one way or another what you should do, but you should consider all cost and risk as far as software goes I want an answer as badly as anyone. I'm waiting on my answer on file compatibility and tethered compatibility for Aptus series backs, there's no reason why this needs to be murky. I'd also prefer not to provide inaccurate information.
Best,
Rich Andres
Foto Care
NY, NY
212-741-2990
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I'm not saying one way or another what you should do, but you should consider all cost and risk as far as software goes I want an answer as badly as anyone. I'm waiting on my answer on file compatibility and tethered compatibility for Aptus series backs, there's no reason why this needs to be murky. I'd also prefer not to provide inaccurate information.
Rich, I understand you have to get your own information.
As for our company, we will stand by what I have posted so far as coming from the horses mouth as of yesterday. As far as C1 file compatibility, the only murkiness is regarding the Aptus 17. File support will be there for Aptus 22 and higher. Tethered support has not yet been decided for non-Aptus II DB's yet.
This is accurate information. This is what I have been told directly by Leaf management.
Does this mean it is guaranteed to happen? No, and only believe it 100% when you see it. But the pattern has been set when they stated support for Aptus II files and it happened, so the fact they are saying the same for Aptus 22 and higher seems very likely to happen as Leaf management has stated as such. There is no reason for them not to and no reason for them to charge any fees or require any warranty because it has nothing to do with the firmware of the digital back itself. Just file compatibility which they have already accomplished with the Aptus II series.
So - bottom line, I don't see it as murky at all. Leaf has stated their intention with file compatibility and that nothing is required for it.
Steve Hendrix
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Does this mean it is guaranteed to happen? No, and only believe it 100% when you see it. But the pattern has been set when they stated support for Aptus II files and it happened, so the fact they are saying the same for Aptus 22 and higher seems very likely to happen as Leaf management has stated as such. There is no reason for them not to and no reason for them to charge any fees or require any warranty because it has nothing to do with the firmware of the digital back itself. Just file compatibility which they have already accomplished with the Aptus II series.
So - bottom line, I don't see it as murky at all. Leaf has stated their intention with file compatibility and that nothing is required for it.
Steve Hendrix
Until it happens, and until the guy with the A17 has a real answer, it's still murky. For me, as long as LC is still going I don't care about C1.
I appreciate both your previous answer and Rich's.
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Until it happens, and until the guy with the A17 has a real answer, it's still murky. For me, as long as LC is still going I don't care about C1.
I appreciate both your previous answer and Rich's.
Yes, I agree, that until it happens it could be considered murky, or vaporware, to use another term.
But Leaf's position with regard to file compatibility - other than the Aptus 17 - is now clarified.
And yes, until something is in your hand, it is not real.
Steve Hendrix
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Rich, I understand you have to get your own information.
As for our company, we will stand by what I have posted so far as coming from the horses mouth as of yesterday. As far as C1 file compatibility, the only murkiness is regarding the Aptus 17. File support will be there for Aptus 22 and higher. Tethered support has not yet been decided for non-Aptus II DB's yet.
This is accurate information. This is what I have been told directly by Leaf management.
Does this mean it is guaranteed to happen? No, and only believe it 100% when you see it. But the pattern has been set when they stated support for Aptus II files and it happened, so the fact they are saying the same for Aptus 22 and higher seems very likely to happen as Leaf management has stated as such. There is no reason for them not to and no reason for them to charge any fees or require any warranty because it has nothing to do with the firmware of the digital back itself. Just file compatibility which they have already accomplished with the Aptus II series.
So - bottom line, I don't see it as murky at all. Leaf has stated their intention with file compatibility and that nothing is required for it.
Steve Hendrix
Hi Steve, still murky to me! I guess the difference between a Leaf dealer and a Phase - new Leaf dealer, no ill will intended, just frustration on dealer support. Does from the horses mouth mean Claus or Dov & Ziv or all three? Since you talked to them yesterday why would there be murkiness regarding an Aptus 17 file vs. an Aptus 22 or higher other then a decision on their part on what to support? What's the difference in MOS file that there wouldn't be support for a 17? Since I haven't received written word on status maybe you can help me out, what's product # SD-1274 and the * Includes Firmware upgrade/future sw compatibility mean since the support is there for the files in the software? Does Aptus II mean all Aptus II's or just new units purchased from Phase-Leaf? Steve as a dealer who provides excellent customer support I hope you can understand my frustration of not having the correct information to support Leaf, a brand that we have loyally supported for over 15 years. As Leaf dealers we should all have the proper support information for our customers, new or old. I hope to have some answers from Claus, Wayne, and Drew soon.
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Thanks Rich and Steve's quick answer.
Why c1 is going to support all files of aptus, but probably no A17?
Does it mean leaf/phase has no more software support for A17s?
I am really frustrated with Leaf...
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Thanks Rich and Steve's quick answer.
Why c1 is going to support all files of aptus, but probably no A17?
Does it mean leaf/phase has no more software support for A17s?
I am really frustrated with Leaf...
The indications I have are that it is more probable rather than probably not. But no firm answer yet.
Steve Hendrix
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I thank everyone for their input although it is amazing how my query about battery recharging has turned into a discussion about Leaf file compatibility with Phase C1!
Anyhow, it seems that my charger is fine and it works with generic mains power cables. The fault lies with the two batteries which failed at the same time, thereby making me think that the problem must be with the charger or the cable because the chance of two batteries failing on the same day seemed unreal.
I now just need to buy some more batteries.
Roger
Roger, I replied on the Leaf forum as well but basically a Red light means no charge, typically due to a faulty battery but in your case it does sound like the charger is broken.
There are many chargers in the market but in my experience the Hahnel and the Samsung are the fastest.
Yair
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To Roger and all, as a general advice I would say that in normal-regular use, most high capacity Li-ion batteries used with power hungry devices (such as digital backs) tend to loose from their ability to hold charge after 8-12 months. So if your batteries after a few months start loosing charge quickly, you should replace them or a least get some fresh ones and mark the old ones as "destined for the bin"...
Yair
PS and I'm surprised it did not turn into a DSLR Vs MFDB discussion
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PS and I'm surprised it did not turn into a DSLR Vs MFDB discussion
:-))
It still can!
Cheers, Ulf
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The batteries in my canon G12 last like forever so they must be much better then those expensive MF batteries!!!
No MF VS DSLR but MF VS point and shoot ;-)
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my canon G12
Beta testing, or just guessing at the battery life of the next Canon G?
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PS and I'm surprised it did not turn into a DSLR Vs MFDB discussion
Mr. Yair,
No I think lately we've been adequately covered with information, comparisons and these quotes from medium format dealers, reps, ex-reps, consultants and associates;
__________________
"but development for the other P+ backs is underway. Not sure of a time frame."
"a specific adapter plate for 4x5" cameras was never planned and done"
"They're working on long exposures"
"They're not the only manufacture that makes announcements but then doesn't deliver."
"Unlike other brands, Contax 645, Kodak DCS digital back, where there were no improvements or developments,"
"Leaf never "went under", Kodak decided to divest themselves of Leaf."
"Concerning the eSprit 65, I can't confirm this for sure, that production has stopped,"
"I started posting to give a alternative option/opinion on a board dominated by Phase and other dealers."
"35mm has been the ones running after pixels."
"We shall see when the bodies-systems get shipped."
"The difference is the the TFT screen on the CF is 2.25" and the CFII is 2.5"."
"still murky to me!"
"just frustration on dealer support."
"Since I haven't received written word on status maybe you can help me out, what's product # SD-1274"
"Does Aptus II mean all Aptus II's or just new units purchased from Phase-Leaf?"
"The indications I have are that it is more probable rather than probably not. But no firm answer yet."
"Tethered support has not yet been decided for non-Aptus II DB's yet. "
"Does this mean it is guaranteed to happen? No, and only believe it 100% when you see it."
"Extended Warranties are a game of risk."
"A repair that was maybe $400-$600 is now up to $1300 +/- "
"I'm waiting on my answer on file compatibility and tethered compatibility"
"the photosites are then not smaller. That is one advantage medium format has over 35mm"
"how is the work completed, how long it takes, when will the software be completed."
"The view-in-bw option is present on the P40+ and P65+ but is not available in previous versions."
"(such as digital backs) tend to loose from their ability to hold charge after 8-12 months."
"I bought a 32G Extreme 60 for my P45+ and it didn't work, so I left it in my Canon where it works phenomenally well. Phase even sent me a beta firmware upgrade for the P45+ to try, and it didn't work with that either"
"I don't blame anyone being skeptical of a dealer one bit."
"I'm not saying there was anything intentional, something is wrong with your files. But mine are right, I know they're right, and anyone familiar with Phase One and Hassleblad files and how they compare knows they're right."
"This is accurate information."
__________________
Thank You and keep the system working.
Linda
http://www.dhs.gov/ (http://www.dhs.gov/)
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Mr. Yair,
No I think lately we've been adequately covered with information, comparisons and these quotes from medium format dealers, reps, ex-reps, consultants and associates;
_____etc etc_____________
Thank You and keep the system working.
Linda
http://www.dhs.gov/ (http://www.dhs.gov/)
Nice! I have almost half the quotes!
Best,
Rich Andres
Foto Care
NY, NY
212-741-2990
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Linda
http://www.dhs.gov/ (http://www.dhs.gov/)
But it says Susan?!
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Mr. Yair,
No I think lately we've been adequately covered with information, comparisons and these quotes from medium format dealers, reps, ex-reps, consultants and associates;
__________________
"..."
__________________
Thank You and keep the system working.
Linda
http://www.dhs.gov/ (http://www.dhs.gov/)
Hi,
@BC, I think you missed this one regarding the battery life:
"Between 0 and about 1,000, depending on time, temperature, length of exposures, usage of the LCD...."
but to be honest, takeing it out of the context, you could make this from everybodys posts. I think the reps are in a difficult situation and at least I do appreciate (some of) their answers here.
And it is definitly strange how themes develop to a different topic from answer to answer.
To get back to topic: If your batteries failed both at the same time you may be careful with your battery charger, it could be defective and ruin the new ones, too. Watch the first charging process from time to time to be sure that your charger is working correct and stops charging.
Cheers, Ulf
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Hi,
but to be honest, takeing it out of the context, you could make this from everybodys posts. I think the reps are in a difficult situation and at least I do appreciate (some of) their answers here.
And it is definitly strange how themes develop to a different topic from answer to answer.
Ulf
I 100% agree, anything out of context can be bent to look a certain way (especially my posts) and I meant this somewhat tongue in cheek, though . . . let's be realistic that when you have one Leaf dealer having to ask another Phase/Leaf dealer on a public forum if the products will be supported then there is an issue.
I know these are small companies and God I wish em' well, but I also know these are expensive cameras and before any of us write a new check we need more information and less responses that say tbd, maybe, as of now, when it ships etc.
Also to make myself clear I want these companies to succeed, but more than that I want these companies (both dealers and makers) to offer product that is more in line with what is happening in the real world.
My heart goes out for those people that bought into systems with promises that we're never met and now find themselves searching around for support and services to make some use of their investment.
The makers can't have it both ways. You can't say bulletproof and in the next sentence mention value added warranties because the costs of repairs is high.
It's not just the camera industry, it's not just the professional photography business, today all businesses across the globe must be complete to have success.
BC