Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: PdF on December 09, 2009, 02:33:36 pm
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Good news.
http://www.worldofphoto.com/meldung/meldun...hp?NID=30112274 (http://www.worldofphoto.com/meldung/meldung2.php?NID=30112274)
PdF
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Yay! Hope they are successful.
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Fantastic!
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good news. I heard some rumours before but it is good to hear some official infos.
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Sounds good! More specific Hy6 info would be great.
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Happy to know this/
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Best of luck to them. The Rollei was my favorite MF camera setup.
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Sounds good! More specific Hy6 info would be great.
Remember Graham, the Hy6 rights belong now to Kodak, after Jenoptics, still not to F&H or the new company running Rolleiflex cameras and accessories.
Best regards,
Thierry
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I'm really pleased about this and hope to hear more about what all they will be producing. I've read quite a lot of different stories some which say they won't be making the 6000 series stuff which would be too bad if true. Anyone know?
Also with regard to the Hy6/AFi Yair keeps writing that the entity that owns the rights to the Hy6/AFi is Leaf Imaging which is owned by Phase and I've read that in some news stories - forget where at the moment. Thiery, you've written and I've read it in the BJP or was it photoscala? that Kodak owns the rights. Again, anyone know? Or is it each has some portion of the rights?
Too good a camera and gear to loose!
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Belongs to Daddy? How such thing could happen?
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Thiery, you've written and I've read it in the BJP or was it photoscala? that Kodak owns the rights. Again, anyone know? Or is it each has some portion of the rights?
Unless I have heard or read about these rights having been bought or taken over by somebody else officially, which I didn't so far, the Hy6 rights belong to Kodak.
Best regards,
Thierry
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A very complicated situation.
+1
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+1
I just find it amazing that nobody konws what really is going on and the people who know, don't give a shit to tell the rest.
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I just find it amazing that nobody konws what really is going on and the people who know, don't give a shit to tell the rest.
Christopher,
that's the way it is until something is ironed out in all details and ready to go public. In this case this means that NOTHING is ironed out YET, or may be even that nothing is going on at all, thus very little people knowing which way it could go, if it goes somewhere. Nothing wrong for me here.
What I feel to be wrong is that there is a wonderful camera simply shamefully resting on some shelves and nobody to realize the potential it still has.
Well, PO has its MF platform, meaning Leaf has it as well now, Hasselblad has its own, and Sinar doesn't seem to be either interested or able to bring it back to the market.
Who else could be interested in a stand-alone camera which doesn't bear in itself any profit margin, which isn't by far complete with all lenses and accessories, and which probably therefore means a lot of financial investment with little chance of fast ROI?
Best regards,
Thierry
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deleted: double post
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Though it had potential, given the current convoluted corporate ownership politics, technical issues, legal machinations, bankruptcy filings, and not to mention the continuing poor global economy, I would say that the chances of the Hy6 ever being resurrected are somewhere between zero and none.
R.I.P
Michael
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Though it had potential, given the current convoluted corporate ownership politics, technical issues, legal machinations, bankruptcy filings, and not to mention the continuing poor global economy, I would say that the chances of the Hy6 ever being resurrected are somewhere between zero and none.
R.I.P
Michael
Agreed, Michael.
Thierry
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Reading between the lines of the announcement (the total lack of mention of Hy6 or anything digital, the talk of the operation being considerably smaller than before, at least for now) I would guess that Michael is right, and that this will be only a revival of the traditional Rollei medium format film camera systems for tradition-minded Rollei customers. Better chance of TLR than DMF.
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I am afraid so
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Putting aside the Hy6 for the moment.....IMHO the 6008AF is still a better camera than most current MF solutions out there. The lenses are awesome and available, it can do 1/1000 sync, it has 1/3 stop adjustments, it can do multipoint metering, you can shoot it handheld with low shutter speeds very easily, will take film if you want it. Once you get used to it, the ergonomics are fantastic.
If there were any problems with the camera is was only with marketing and distribution - Rollei got run over by the Hasselblad PR and theres a ton of misinformation out there about the cameras, stores didn't have supply to show or sell, and the sales staff didn't know the camera enough to want to sell it. Consequently, there are people who never even used this platform that will swear up and down about how the zeiss lenses are better or how much more reliable hasselblad cameras are/were.
The 6008AF was the pinnacle of a long development of that make starting with the SLX. I'm sure if the Hy6 had one more iteration they would have ironed out the bugs, but that said their previous generation camera, the 6008AF is still one of the most advanced cameras out there. I'd take it over the new phamiya 645DF any day of the week. I'm a big fan obviously and hope the new organization will continue with this camera line. So if the Hy6 is at a road block, they could always just update the 6008AF slightly to share EXIF information with digital backs and be about as far as with the Hy6 actually. I've always wondered what the reasons were that phase and leaf did not get on that platform in the first place.
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Putting aside the Hy6 for the moment.....IMHO the 6008AF is still a better camera than most current MF solutions out there.
I agree, but the sync cable is the achilles heel when shooting digital. If I had the cash, I would get the Hy6 just to lose this cable. Would be nice if a digital-friendly version of the 6008 were released (then Sinar/Hasselblad could release a new rotating adapter with support for the electronic interface). I won't hold my breath though.
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I agree, but the sync cable is the achilles heel when shooting digital. If I had the cash, I would get the Hy6 just to lose this cable. Would be nice if a digital-friendly version of the 6008 were released (then Sinar/Hasselblad could release a new rotating adapter with support for the electronic interface). I won't hold my breath though.
That's not a problem with the Phase backs as none is required at least with the 6008AF, and the Ixpress backs also operate cable free with that model. I agree though, a digital friendly version of the 6008AF would be great. I'd love to have the EXIF data from the shoots.
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Though it had potential, given the current convoluted corporate ownership politics, technical issues, legal machinations, bankruptcy filings, and not to mention the continuing poor global economy, I would say that the chances of the Hy6 ever being resurrected are somewhere between zero and none.
R.I.P
Michael
That's a disappointing observation. I thought you were a sporting man.
(it may be right, but hey, what's wrong with a little hope for the down and out?)
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I agree, but the sync cable is the achilles heel when shooting digital. If I had the cash, I would get the Hy6 just to lose this cable. Would be nice if a digital-friendly version of the 6008 were released (then Sinar/Hasselblad could release a new rotating adapter with support for the electronic interface). I won't hold my breath though.
Hello Graham, PhaseOne backs for the 6008 AF can be ordered through the dealer. Regrettably, those backs have not been available for the Hy6 since PhaseOne was not part of the original development (F&H, Sinar and Leaf).
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Yes, notwithstanding the insolvency of F&H activities at the Braunschweig factory have been ongoing, which I have experienced myself. Both sales and servicing/repair have remained very professional. It was suggested to me several times that there was a high chance that activities would continue beyond the end of the insolvency, which is the case as we can see with the appearance of DHW Fototechnik now. It took courageous people to do so in difficult times. I wish them all the success they deserve and will continue to support them.
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Hello Graham, PhaseOne backs for the 6008 AF can be ordered through the dealer. Regrettably, those backs have not been available for the Hy6 since PhaseOne was not part of the original development (F&H, Sinar and Leaf).
As far as I know, the Phase mount only allows for landscape orientation on the Rollei (this has been reported earlier in this forum). Also, as much as I respect the Phase backs, I would prefer to avoid a fixed mount over an adapter system.
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Christopher,
that's the way it is until something is ironed out in all details and ready to go public. In this case this means that NOTHING is ironed out YET, or may be even that nothing is going on at all, thus very little people knowing which way it could go, if it goes somewhere. Nothing wrong for me here.
What I feel to be wrong is that there is a wonderful camera simply shamefully resting on some shelves and nobody to realize the potential it still has.
Well, PO has its MF platform, meaning Leaf has it as well now, Hasselblad has its own, and Sinar doesn't seem to be either interested or able to bring it back to the market.
Who else could be interested in a stand-alone camera which doesn't bear in itself any profit margin, which isn't by far complete with all lenses and accessories, and which probably therefore means a lot of financial investment with little chance of fast ROI?
Best regards,
Thierry
Sensors get less expensive every year. I guess in 1 or 2 years it shouldnt be too complicated to make a 6x6 sensor.
So I guess each company could be interested in the Hy6-know how which wanted to use a sensor bigger than that of the whole competition without needing to develop a new system (camera and lenses) from scratch.
I allways thought bigger is better, and MF-people use MF because of sensor size. So why should this only be true until you reach the current sensor sizes?
Lets say Phase would be able to develop larger sensors - and wanted a system for people who want leaf-shutter, or who want exchangable viewfinder, or who want rotating backs/sensors) - why not also offer Hy-6 bodies and Rollei lenses in addition to their phase 645 system?
Hasselblad also offers the V-system and the H-system.
Just some thoughts.
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Sensors get less expensive every year. I guess in 1 or 2 years it shouldnt be too complicated to make a 6x6 sensor.
So I guess each company could be interested in the Hy6-know how which wanted to use a sensor bigger than that of the whole competition without needing to develop a new system (camera and lenses) from scratch.
I allways thought bigger is better, and MF-people use MF because of sensor size. So why should this only be true until you reach the current sensor sizes?
Lets say Phase would be able to develop larger sensors - and wanted a system for people who want leaf-shutter, or who want exchangable viewfinder, or who want rotating backs/sensors) - why not also offer Hy-6 bodies and Rollei lenses in addition to their phase 645 system?
Hasselblad also offers the V-system and the H-system.
Just some thoughts.
It isn't complicated at all, to manufacture a 6x6 sensor, the technology exists and it can be done on demand. The question being the price and if it makes sense economically speaking.
So far nobody (understand back manufacturer) has ordered such a sensor. There must be some reasons.
Then, the Hy6 is there, true, but how much does it cost to re-vive it, understand to get the production line with the special machinery and tools ready.
In addition, the lens system for this camera is another story: the Hy6 system doesn't have a complete lens program, and developing what still is only on drawing boards costs a hell of money.
Best regards,
Thierry
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... the Hy6 system doesn't have a complete lens program, and developing what still is only on drawing boards costs a hell of money.
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That's weird - what about all the existing 6000 series lenses? Tons of them out there and most are very high quality. The only lens I thought was still in development was the 35mm flektagon?
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Thierry, I agree with all your comments about the severe economic challenges to introduction of a full 6x6 DMF camera (with 56x56mm sensor). But it will be hard to persuade people who are inclined to deny or ignore uncomfortable facts about large sensor costs, and to declare with no evidence that sensors (of a given large size) are getting substantially cheaper with time. The "faux Moore's Law" lives on.
And on this comment
... the Hy6 system doesn't have a complete lens program ...
I presume that you are talking about the very limited selection of auto-focus lenses ever prdocuced for the Rollei/Hy6 cameras?
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That's weird - what about all the existing 6000 series lenses? Tons of them out there and most are very high quality. The only lens I thought was still in development was the 35mm flektagon?
Indeed, there are lots of choices of Schneider and Zeiss lenses for Rolleiflex 6000 and Hy6 series out there. The only one in development was/is the Flektogon 35/2.8 AFD as the camera system could need a wider lens than the current Super Angulon 50/2.8 AF/AFD and the Super Angulon 40/3.5 manual lens. Especially in combination with a wide-angle Leaf AFi-II 10 digital back the potential could be enormous.
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Thierry, I agree with all your comments about the severe economic challenges to introduction of a full 6x6 DMF camera (with 56x56mm sensor). But it will be hard to persuade people who are inclined to deny or ignore uncomfortable facts about large sensor costs, and to declare with no evidence that sensors (of a given large size) are getting substantially cheaper with time. The "faux Moore's Law" lives on.
Dear BJL,
I agree with you as well, but: a 6x6 sensor will most probably cost a "few" k's more than the current ones, and for the first (understand back manufacturer) to order it. Most probably it would be bound with an exclusivity agreement, which costs even (much) more. With time (and exclusivity) passing, the sensor costs would decline, obviously. The question is: who would be interested to go this way (6x6) and invest the first. I don't see any of the current players either having interests or financially able to do it, even more so when one knows what it would cost to re-vive the Hy6.
And on this comment
I presume that you are talking about the very limited selection of auto-focus lenses ever prdocuced for the Rollei/Hy6 cameras?
Yes, I do speak about the D-line of Schneider lenses which were planed and never manufactured, some never finished being designed. I am of course well aware that there are over 40 "old" Schneider, Zeiss lenses, from the Rolleiflex 600x series which do fit the Hy6 (some fit mechanically, but have proven to be problematic when from an older version), but unfortunately for the vast majority now not longer available (only on the second-hand market for some, and then in very little quantities). That's the reality.
Best regards,
Thierry
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Dear BJL,
I agree with you as well, but: a 6x6 sensor will most probably cost a "few" k's more than the current ones, and for the first (understand back manufacturer) to order it. Most probably it would be bound with an exclusivity agreement, which costs even (much) more. With time (and exclusivity) passing, the sensor costs would decline, obviously. The question is: who would be interested to go this way (6x6) and invest the first. I don't see any of the current players either having interests or financially able to do it, even more so when one knows what it would cost to re-vive the Hy6.
The pressure will be on when the 24x36 DSLR cameras will deliver ever better quality. The only way to break out would then be an bigger format such as 6x6.
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Yes, I do speak about the D-line of Schneider lenses which were planed and never manufactured, some never finished being designed. I am of course well aware that there are over 40 "old" Schneider, Zeiss lenses, from the Rolleiflex 600x series which do fit the Hy6 (some fit mechanically, but have proven to be problematic when from an older version), but unfortunately for the vast majority now not longer available (only on the second-hand market for some, and then in very little quantities). That's the reality.
The Schneider AFD and AF lenses are identical apart from the fact that the former lack an aperture ring on the barrel. The line-up was/is not huge but quite complete apart from the very-wide angle 35mm.
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The Schneider AFD and AF lenses are identical apart from the fact that the former lack an aperture ring on the barrel.
Not exactly true, Pascal. There is a difference, other than the aperture ring: there are much tighter quality tolerances, thus no or little sample variations. Then, they are not all identical optically, from those which were planed as AFD, the 35mm being one of them. It was designed a first time and almost finished for going in production, then finally not meeting the quality expected and currently still to be re-designed.
Best regards,
Thierry
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The pressure will be on when the 24x36 DSLR cameras will deliver ever better quality. The only way to break out would then be an bigger format such as 6x6.
Pascal,
The question or point was, will the Hy6 ever come to life again. I seriously doubt it, like MR, for many reasons: economical, technological, organisational as well as market potential. And yes, I find it to be a pity as well as a waste of money, even much a waste of human passion and sweat. But nobody cares about this in an economical driven business.
I didn't say there will never be a 6x6 sensor, or even bigger, but certainly not in the near future, and even less on a platform like the Hy6.
Best regards,
Thierry
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That's dreadful!
I hope you're mistaken
Eduardo
I didn't say there will never be a 6x6 sensor, or even bigger, but certainly not in the near future, and even less on a platform like the Hy6.
Best regards,
Thierry
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Can anyone tell me what adapters are available for 6008AF? In other words- what can be mounted on 6008AF with use of adapters? I recall an I-adapter, but nothing else.
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Hmm and about Hy6- look at the bright side, it seems that it wont be resurrected thus we (at least the ones who don't mind a small gamble) will be able to grab a bargain for existing Hy6 body soon enough
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Can anyone tell me what adapters are available for 6008AF? In other words- what can be mounted on 6008AF with use of adapters? I recall an I-adapter, but nothing else.
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Hmm and about Hy6- look at the bright side, it seems that it wont be resurrected thus we (at least the ones who don't mind a small gamble) will be able to grab a bargain for existing Hy6 body soon enough
I have an I-adapter for rolleiu so that works. Sinar probably also has an adapter. Phase had a P20 for rollei....
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Not exactly true, Pascal. There is a difference, other than the aperture ring: there are much tighter quality tolerances, thus no or little sample variations. Then, they are not all identical optically, from those which were planed as AFD, the 35mm being one of them. It was designed a first time and almost finished for going in production, then finally not meeting the quality expected and currently still to be re-designed.
Hi Thierry,
one must distinguish reality from hype regarding AF vs AFD. Please understand I cannot say more.
Regarding their optical identity, they are one and the same.
The Schneider Flektogon 35/2.8 was only planned as AFD and not as AF. The first optical calculation did not yield the desired results, which is why it had to be recalculated causing delays. But the new calculation achieved the benchmarks and was ready at the end of 2008. Manufacturing could start anytime with the proper investment in place. Let us hope this will effectively be the case.
Pascal
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Hi Thierry,
one must distinguish reality from hype regarding AF vs AFD. Please understand I cannot say more.
No need to say anything more, with the word "hype" you have given all information.
However, let me disagree here.
Though, it doesn't take away the fact that the lens system isn't complete for the Hy6, by far. That's my main point. And a system without a complete lens range cannot exist.
Regarding their optical identity, they are one and the same.
The Schneider Flektogon 35/2.8 was only planned as AFD and not as AF. The first optical calculation did not yield the desired results, which is why it had to be recalculated causing delays. But the new calculation achieved the benchmarks and was ready at the end of 2008. Manufacturing could start anytime with the proper investment in place. Let us hope this will effectively be the case.
Pascal
Yes, I know the "Flektogon story" very well, with the re-design, also how it eventually finished, at least with the company I used to work for: it did by far not reach the quality benchmarks expected (and in the specifications), in many aspects. Did you test the few samples available from the ones ready end of 2008? I did, together with some of my former colleagues. It was not a question of investment, since ordered a couple of years back and eagerly and impatiently awaited. I won't say more about this sad story and the needed lenses missing so badly for the Hy6.
Best regards,
Thierry
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Can anyone tell me what adapters are available for 6008AF? In other words- what can be mounted on 6008AF with use of adapters? I recall an I-adapter, but nothing else.
Sinar eMotion series backs
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With all this talk about incomplete lens lineup, how come the S2 gets a pass?What if someone would want something in between 35 and 70 mm, and not a zoom?
And sure, smart money, the house, and everyone else lining up will tell you the Hy6 is and always will be dead. They're probably right, especially in the current crunch. But sometimes, there is a small little bit of light for niche players and it might someday shine again, so I for one don't want to slam the door shut. But if I were a professional in this industry, yes, I'd go with the big guys, or even the medium ones.
Still, it seems that there is an awful lot of 20-20 hindsight. Firms like Rollei have a very hard time in changing marketplaces, especially this one. What makes it hard for some of us is that if you understand and appreciate the virtues of their product, their cameras stand out well without clear competition or replacement. Time moves on and we'll probably have to adjust. It just rankles to see how "right" people are about the demise of the system. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that an open system without Phase wasn't going anywhere, or that one camera under 3 name brands didn't make a lot of sense. But makers are different from critics, and for a brief moment, lets thank them for trying.
And as the prices adjust, I hope one lands somewhere close.
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Thiery,
You're right - not counting the 30mm distagon (fisheye), 40mm f/3.5 Super angulon, 40mm zeiss distagon, 50mm f/2.8 AFD, 50mm f/2.8 PQS, 50mm f/4 distagon, 55mm PCS (tilt/shift), 60mm distagon, 60mm curtaon, 80mm AFD, 80mm AF 2.8, 80mm f/2 xenotar, 80mm f/2.8 planar, 90mm apo macro, 110mm f/2.0, 120mm f/4 macro, 150mm apo macro, 150mm sonnar, 150mm tele xenar, 180mm f/2.8, 180mm AFD, 250mm , 300mm f/4 apo, 350mm, and 500mm - the rollei hy6 lens line up is incomplete!
Edit: Whoops forgot the AF 60-140, 75-150mm zoom, 140-280 zooms, the 1000mm tele-tessar and probably a few more.
While not just for the Rollei, you can mount things like imagon lenses (i used a 120mm imagon just yesterday to do portraits of a local singer who wanted a special look), and specialized macro lenses such as the M-componon's because Rollei has a shutter adapter. That's just one item of a long list of cool accessories that make the system so fantastic.
Shooters will be lucky to ever have a lens system as complete as that, as fast as that, and as high quality as those available for Rollei 6000 and Hy6 platforms.
Eric
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Thiery,
You're right - not counting the 30mm distagon (fisheye), 40mm f/3.5 Super angulon, 40mm zeiss distagon, 50mm f/2.8 AFD, 50mm f/2.8 PQS, 50mm f/4 distagon, 55mm PCS (tilt/shift), 60mm distagon, 60mm curtaon, 80mm AFD, 80mm AF 2.8, 80mm f/2 xenotar, 80mm f/2.8 planar, 90mm apo macro, 110mm f/2.0, 120mm f/4 macro, 150mm apo macro, 150mm sonnar, 150mm tele xenar, 180mm f/2.8, 180mm AFD, 250mm , 300mm f/4 apo, 350mm, and 500mm - the rollei hy6 lens line up is incomplete!
Edit: Whoops forgot the AF 60-140, 75-150mm zoom, 140-280 zooms, the 1000mm tele-tessar and probably a few more.
While not just for the Rollei, you can mount things like imagon lenses (i used a 120mm imagon just yesterday to do portraits of a local singer who wanted a special look), and specialized macro lenses such as the M-componon's because Rollei has a shutter adapter. That's just one item of a long list of cool accessories that make the system so fantastic.
Shooters will be lucky to ever have a lens system as complete as that, as fast as that, and as high quality as those available for Rollei 6000 and Hy6 platforms.
Eric
Dear Eric,
I published an almost complete list here (http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5087&page=5) some months ago, over 40 totally, for those interested. Unfortunately many are discontinued, as said earlier, and can be found only second-hand. However, be careful, some older versions don't work very well on the Hy6, this has been reported many times here. If somebody is interested, I still have myself a Schneider 2,8/50 AF Super Angulon PQS HFT (new).
Best regards,
Thierry
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Thierry, not that it matters much by now anymore, but are you sure you tested the version that was redesigned by that US daughter company of Jenoptik? I happen to have the final design drawings and they are definitely different from the original design. And to Pascal: the 35mm Flektogon has never been a Schneider design; it was designed by an F&H engineer who retired before the flawed design was prototyped. When this design turned out to have some serious problems with the elements Jenoptik suggested to outsource the redesign to their US daughter (which I will not name).
Dear EPd,
It does effectively not matter anymore. The Jenoptik US daughter company did never built a prototype of a newly designed 35mm, so no I could not test it, since at that stage (end of 2008) there were already different considerations. But you are effectively and absolutely right.
Best regards,
Thierry
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As a new system camera, with nice new AFD lenses, the Hy6 wasn't fully complete. That is true. With better sales, or a longer run, it probably would have been.
However, as a legacy camera, the Hy6 came with an amazing lineup of good older lenses, listed by Eric above. They're mostly manual, but very good lenses.
For the snappy "have to have a full new system now" photog, it might seem dated. To a more mature user, its a pretty comprehensive group.
Sales folks had to tend to the former, and us afficionados to the latter. Sometimes, we even meet, but rarely.
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As a new system camera, with nice new AFD lenses, the Hy6 wasn't fully complete ... as a legacy camera, the Hy6 came with an amazing lineup of good older lenses ... mostly manual ... To a more mature user, its a pretty comprehensive group.
That is about how I see the whole "Rollei 6x6" family of products, including the Hy6: to borrow your word, a "mature" system, suited to "mature" users: ones who already have lot of lenses and/or who are comfortable working with manual focus and who are willing use some "mature" (out of production) lenses.
Which is why I predict that the revival will mostly focus on "mature" products, from TLRs to 6008 (MF? AF?) and mostly or entirely manual focus lenses. After all, the Hasselblad V series 6x6 and Mamiya RZ 6x7 systems are still going, in a small, quiet way.
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That is about how I see the whole "Rollei 6x6" family of products, including the Hy6: to borrow your word, a "mature" system, suited to "mature" users: ones who already have lot of lenses and/or who are comfortable working with manual focus and who are willing use some "mature" (out of production) lenses.
Which is why I predict that the revival will mostly focus on "mature" products, from TLRs to 6008 (MF? AF?) and mostly or entirely manual focus lenses. After all, the Hasselblad V series 6x6 and Mamiya RZ 6x7 systems are still going, in a small, quiet way.
The Rollei system is quite interesting: its a very tactile system. If you use it, and fiddle with it, it all makes sense, in a way that the Hassy's don't (as much), and other cameras seem to fall a bit short. The ergonomics work (for me) and the combination of practical layouts and sophisticated choices seem really optimal.
In terms of marketing - this approach has never been easily communicated. Its the same in some other products - automotive, or architectural. Some things you just have to see and use to appreciate; other do better in the marketing based world of today. Of course, cameras in general are a "touch and feel" kind of product - sometimes you are sure it is the right one for you, and when you use it, you find out it isn't. All cameras seem to have that "must use first" aspect - surprising, given how refined this market sector is. Just goes to show we still have a lot to learn about how people work with tools, and what preferences they have.
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I agree with the previous posts - and nothing wrong with the quality of the existing MF or AF lenses for the Rollei 6000 and Hy6. I just don't understand the comments that the system is incomplete. The only reports I have read about incompatible older lenses with the hy6 and AFi were fixed with firmware updates. Another thing I don't understand is why so much emphasis is placed on the need for AF lenses in medium format. Who uses a centrally located single point AF anyway? I mean if you're shooting at f/13 or f/16 then focus and recompose is going to work, but then so is just guessing at the distance and dialing it in. The whole beauty of MF systems is a big bright viewfinder or WLF in the first place.
Also I have to say that I'm really surprised to see people kicking dirt on the camera now that its down - and especially the ones that were touting it highly when they had jobs with various companies to sell that product. So you guys - were you blowing smoke at us then or now? Surely you're getting ready to sell the next new thing and wouldn't want anyone to cling onto the past even if it was really good right?
Maybe the people saying the lens system was incomplete are mostly the ones that are in the selling side of the business. Perhaps it's an economic necessity for vendors to sell a whole new system, camera and lenses and not just lenses. Leica dumped their R10 in favor of a whole new system that requires users to buy a whole new set. Phamiya is doing this too - with the newer leaf shutter lenses - maybe it was part of the plan? Hasselblad too changed lens systems. Anyhow, there's plenty of Rollei 6000 series in circulation though - just look at ebay or some of the used camera shops. Never was a concern of mine and certainly I didn't hold the view the system was incomplete.
Certainly I wish that the new business entity will prosper and survive. IMHO the Rollei MF cameras are the best out there.
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Certainly I wish that the new business entity will prosper and survive. IMHO the Rollei MF cameras are the best out there.
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I agree. I've had a Hy6 for almost two years and prior to that three Rollei 6008s which I still dig out every now and then. I've dabbled with Hasselblad H series cameras but find them annoying - I suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome and my wrist locks up within half an hour of enduring what must be one of the most poorly designed grips I've ever encountered, so it ends being a tripod-only camera for health reasons.
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Pascal,
The question or point was, will the Hy6 ever come to life again. I seriously doubt it, like MR, for many reasons: economical, technological, organisational as well as market potential. And yes, I find it to be a pity as well as a waste of money, even much a waste of human passion and sweat. But nobody cares about this in an economical driven business.
I didn't say there will never be a 6x6 sensor, or even bigger, but certainly not in the near future, and even less on a platform like the Hy6.
Best regards,
Thierry
I am afraid you are right and you know much more about the market than I do.
I still would believe that it was much easier to develop a 6x6 system based on an existing system compared to something completely new (like Leica S2)
In one way the lens line up is not complete (50,80,150 and 180 do exist as AFD as far as I understand) on the other side it might be the MF system with some of the nicest lenses available. Anyways - for me personally it doesnt even matter much since I am happy with what I have/which is available today.