Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: rainer_v on November 30, 2009, 05:48:09 am
-
I like the review of the S2 of MR, it seems to be written with a certain distance to the Leica, which makes it looking objective and interesting to read. I like that he did include some advices been given here in the forum and that MR tested the camera in some "professional" environment reg. focus tracking and tethering. Result for me is that the S2 performs exactly as i had expected.
Lets see how many professionals will find that concept , together with the nice red dot on it, enough tempting to spent 50.000 dollars or more ( backup ).
-
If the S2 came supplied with 3 ready made shift lenses , I certainly would consider it.
As that is not the case,I'm not interested right now.
I know that they have one in the pipeline,but that wouldn't be enough for me.
-
The back can then be placed on a technical camera, such as an Alpa, Cambo, or Linhof. This allows the use of movements, as well as the spectacular medium format digital lenses made by both Rodenstock and Schneider.
LL still ignore arca ?
strange, how the RM3D report was made vs the Alpa... it looks like personal preferences... more than reports...
Still the S2 without a bunch of TS lenses isn't a complete system...
-
If the S2 came supplied with 3 ready made shift lenses , I certainly would consider it.
I wonder how TS lenses will work in conjunction with an offset mircrolenses sensor; IMHO movements will be limited due to heavy vignetting, no?
Michael's article is indeed a very interessting read.
-
The back can then be placed on a technical camera, such as an Alpa, Cambo, or Linhof. This allows the use of movements, as well as the spectacular medium format digital lenses made by both Rodenstock and Schneider.
LL still ignore arca ?
strange, how the RM3D report was made vs the Alpa... it looks like personal preferences... more than reports...
Still the S2 without a bunch of TS lenses isn't a complete system...
What do you have with your arca, sorry but as long as a company selling products in 2009 is not ABLE to actually have a real homepage, is not of any interest to me or many I know of.
-
Random:
* Kudos to Mr. Reichmann for taking the camera into the studio, and devoting several paragraphs to the results, on a site called Luminous Landscape.
* Very surprised to see the mention of only seeing 93-95% of the image in the viewfinder, on a pro camera.
* Phase comes out smelling like a rose in the article.
* All in all, I thought the article was thorough, balanced, objective.
* Just for kicks, would have loved to have seen a Nikon D3x thrown into that mix, next to the other two camera systems.
* The picture of the model with the spot-color lips has just got to go. It colors the whole review. All my friends and I have a blood-brother pact: No spot color effect mixed with black-and-white.
* Same thing with the orange keyline around the photo. I just can't take a good article seriously when there's an orange keyline against a black background. There -- somebody's gotta say it. The article is too good, to show the pictures that way. Design matters.
-
The back can then be placed on a technical camera, such as an Alpa, Cambo, or Linhof. This allows the use of movements, as well as the spectacular medium format digital lenses made by both Rodenstock and Schneider.
LL still ignore arca ?
strange, how the RM3D report was made vs the Alpa... it looks like personal preferences... more than reports...
Still the S2 without a bunch of TS lenses isn't a complete system...
Simply an oversight. I've now added them.
Michael
Ps: Tell your friends at Arca if they'd like me to look at their products they know where to find me. Other companies have figured it out.
-
Random:
* The picture of the model with the spot-color lips has just got to go. It colors the whole review. All my friends and I have a blood-brother pact: No spot color effect mixed with black-and-white.
* Same thing with the orange keyline around the photo. I just can't take a good article seriously when there's an orange keyline against a black background. There -- somebody's gotta say it. The article is too good, to show the pictures that way. Design matters.
Every photograph on the site has a coloured border. It's a signature of the site's design. I like it.
I also like desaturated images with emphasized colours. There are dozens to be found on the site over the past few years
Michael
-
agree that MR's review is a useful contribution.
it admirably calls Leica out on some omissions and designs errors, unlike those whose living depends on selling Red-dots who review it as near faultless.
yes Phase doesnt come out of it so badly here, with the new DF body.
Surprised that the Leica lens didn't clearly outstrip the Phase 80mm D lens. very surprised in fact.
MR praises their optics, of course, but it obviously didn't lift the camera into another league.
I am the ideal customer for an S2 - MF quality street work, need something fast with big sensor and great lenses + AF.
have my DF body on order.
what would have helped a lot would be a 5 or 7 point AF allowing off center composition. is this really too much to ask for in 2009?
Once I get my DF, will decide whether to cancel my S2 order or leave it be.
(hurry up, Phase, if you have them for 'workshop' loans, then you should have them for your paying P65+ customers, who are waiting desperately... kind of shameful to have the priorities muddled up)
-
The S2 seems like a jewel to behold. It has its flaws to be sure.
I guess it all boils down to personal preference. For my money, I think the Hasselblad option offers the most versatility and the best value. It works well tethered, offers a waist level finder option, has a family of great lenses, provides good customer service, and is on the cutting-edge with products like the 35mm-90mm zoom, an outstanding 28mm lens, and the HTS tilt-shift adaptor.
Though, I daresay, the S2 is by far the prettiest MF camera out there.
-
I briefly played around it, did not have much time really testing it but it is a very camera that people love precision instrument, photography and afford will likely want to have one, and get one. Leica without doublt produce professional quality cameras but only small percentage of its users are working professionals, but this is like many professional tools, musci, cars, many many things, a tool designed to produce professional result does not restrict non-professional to own it. I will love to have one, although I am certain I will not get one for now, but I wish well for those who will buy it, becaue it is because of them (pro and non-pro) to sustain a camera maker such as Leica to continue be an active topic.
MR did a fair review, and very useful review. For studio work, I see the S2 a strong faship camera, the tested tethered performance is not ideal, but I think it is a matter of tweak of firmware and software, it should and I beleive it will work a lot better than that.
-
i just cannot believe that a camera clearly targeted towards fashion/studio work has that kind of tether speed....i don't understand who makes the decisions and says: yes a frame every 4 seconds and an extra couple of secs to show up is just what people want....
maybe firmware can fix things to a certain point, but it won't fix USB which is clearly the problem here....maybe it is already USB 3.0 and they are really ahead of all of us?
93-95% viewfinder? note to leica: people will put up with "liberal" framing with RF but not with SLR...defeats the whole purpose...
i am sure lenses will great and the camera is beautiful, makes those idiotic shortcomings even more stupid...these are such no brainers and should not even be talked about....
phase DF with schneider lenses with the high sync is clearly the best solution out there....
but really, i still don't see anything the canons/nikons won't do better or as good (enough...)
i was really hoping that leica would make something that would be a step forward....
somehow i was hoping that this might put a little pressure on canon/nikon to break the 35mm format and release that slightly larger sensor with new lenses (with shutter), i still think that is on the horizon but as long as DMF keeps producing "almost there/not really great solutions" they don't have to rush....
i am also really not surprised by the expected iso performance....usable 320....that's great....
-
How many strobes can reach 1/800 or even 1/1600 second flash duration? Let us face it.
Most studio strobes are at least that fast. My Elinchrom BX500Ri studio strobes are 1/1580 sec at full power. Many are a lot faster.
Michael
-
Michael,
I also meant to say, the video of the demo/testing is exactly what I would like to see more of. I don't need endless specs on cameras. I want to see gear in the working environment. That tells me so much more than anything else. I'm sure it's a lot more work but doing video reviews is so much more desirable. It's the closest thing to being there. What works and what doesn't is so evident in just watching the gear being used and tested. You started something, so I guess keep on doing it.
I agree 100% and more-so the fact that is it all done in a well organised (but not staged) manner with no added sugar.
Makes it very honest and very credible IMO.
Yair
-
How many strobes can reach 1/800 or even 1/1600 second flash duration? Let us face it.
1/1600 is the duration at max power for the Profoto 8-A.
Doug
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
-
I agree 100% and more-so the fact that is it all done in a well organised (but not staged) manner with no added sugar.
Makes it very honest and very credible IMO.
Yair
Spoken by the guy that used to strip in fake LCD images into the product shots of Leaf backs, for their print advertising. Gotta love it. (Could he be learning something, to correct his errant ways of the past?)
-
I've done these before.
The Rm3D review (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/arca-rm3d.shtml) back in July is another example. (I shot and edited that one myself).
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...arca-rm3d.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/arca-rm3d.shtml)
You're right. They're a lot of work. The 14 minute S2 video took Chris three days to edit, and it's a very fine but rough job– not up to his usual self-imposed standards, but I pushed him to have it ready for Sunday evening.
We'll be shooting another video this week on another new medium format camera that I'm testing that's going to knock everyone's socks off. (The camera, not necessarily the video).
Michael
-
after thinking about it some more: the S2 really only has 2 usable iso settings...160 and 320....80 is pull with limited DR and 640 is looking questionable to me....years of development and they end up with 2? that is crazy....
can't wait to see the DMF review of the camera that will knock my socks off....really i want my socks knocked off....
-
Spoken by the guy that used to strip in fake LCD images into the product shots of Leaf backs, for their print advertising. Gotta love it. (Could he be learning something, to correct his errant ways of the past?)
...working on it (the erring/ learning bit)...
-
...working on it (the erring/ learning bit)...
You can do it, Yair. You can. But the sad thing is, the company that you presently work for could use your errant deeds more than Leaf.
But yeah, photographers tend to notice these things.
-
another new medium format camera that I'm testing that's going to knock everyone's socks off.
Pentax ?
-
Has to be the new RED !
-
Nope, and nope.
Michael
-
We'll be shooting another video this week on another new medium format camera that I'm testing that's going to knock everyone's socks off.
But not Phase One or Leica or Pentax or RED, and given MR's comments in recent years, probably not Hasselblad.
He did not say digital medium format did he? It must be the new Fujifilm/Voigtlander Bessa III folder!
http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaende...fdih7jzkae.html (http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_fdih7jzkae.html)
This is surely the ultimate (as in last, final) 6x7 camera that will ever be released.
-
I've done these before.
......
We'll be shooting another video this week on another new medium format camera that I'm testing that's going to knock everyone's socks off. (The camera, not necessarily the video).
Michael
BIG CALL!~ -
-
It's not a Hasselblad, but any time they want to send me something new for review I'll be more than pleased to do as objective a report as possible.
Now that Christian is gone, maybe there's room for a renewed relationship. He wasn't exactly my biggest fan.
I'd welcome it in fact.
Michael
-
It's not a Hasselblad, but any time they want to send me something new for review I'll be more than pleased to do as objective a report as possible.
I am sure you would. I was just noting that it has been a very long time since any Hasselblad offering inspired you to use a phrase like "knock everyone's socks off", and I have not see any signs of changes from Hasselblad sufficient to change that.
In fact, it is an interesting question to put to high end digital camera users:
What innovations would knock your socks off? (Please, no Sci-Fi: stay within the laws of physics!)
-
Nope, and nope.
Contax 645 MKII?
-
It's not a Hasselblad, but any time they want to send me something new for review I'll be more than pleased to do as objective a report as possible.
Now that Christian is gone, maybe there's room for a renewed relationship. He wasn't exactly my biggest fan.
I met him once; he seemed like an incredibly intelligent guy, and passionate about his mission. I was very impressed.
I just hope he got "closure" in his relationship with Hasselblad, before he departed.
(Come on, you know that everyone had that sentence run through their head when they read that announcement. Has it been long enough now that someone can actually say it?)
-
I am sure you would. I was just noting that it has been a very long time since any Hasselblad offering inspired you to use a phrase like "knock everyone's socks off", and I have not see any signs of changes from Hasselblad sufficient to change that.
In fact, it is an interesting question to put to high end digital camera users:
What innovations would knock your socks off? (Please, no Sci-Fi: stay within the laws of physics!)
A back with 40-60Mp, Live View and usable ISO 1600 ^^ (As long as base IQ stays the same or gets better)
-
Contax 645 MKII?
Who needs a MkII?
I would put Contax 645 with P65+ up against any system out there. Perfect? hell no. damn good? you bet!
Victor
-
Who needs a MkII?
I would put Contax 645 with P65+ up against any system out there. Perfect? hell no. damn good? you bet!
I think everyone agrees that the simplicity of the Contax 645 is great. So the lenses and the accessories are.
Still I can imagine 1 to 10 things that could be improved. AF speed and AF accuracy ... the new Hasselblad AF recompose thing would also be very nice.
But if Michael says there's a new MF camera "that's going to knock everyone's socks off" I guess it's a CMOS based camera/back with live view and better high ISO performance (maybe at the price of slight losses in IQ at base ISO) ... otherwise I don't think it would knock anyone's socks off.
A 43.4MP, 1,7 fps, ISO320 MFD would not be very interesting...
-
Maybe it's that mythical Nikon MX-whatever...
-
Maybe it's that mythical Nikon MX-whatever...
I'm pretty sure we will see a Sony before the Nikon. However I guess it is none. We would have heard a lot more if it was.
-
I wrote camera, not back.
In any event, enough guessing and enough said.
Michael
-
I wrote camera, not back.
In any event, enough guessing and enough said.
Michael
when will we get to see that video?
-
Nope, and nope.
Michael
PLEASE. PLEASE, PLEASE be Nikon or Canon. Enough already with this silly, buggy, low iso, featureless MF.
-
PLEASE. PLEASE, PLEASE be Nikon or Canon. Enough already with this silly, buggy, low iso, featureless MF.
Rogan,
I've heard two rumors.
First is a new Leica S3 with a 16 shot buffer, tethering through Windows Media Player.
Second is Phase bought Bronica.
Not so sure how true they are, but both sound like a positive move.
BC
-
I wrote camera, not back.
In any event, enough guessing and enough said.
Michael
Michael, you are such a teaser!
I'm guessing you'll blow everyone away with your review of the unannounced 1Ds MK IV @ 28Mp
-
First is a new Leica S3 with a 16 shot buffer, tethering through Windows Media Player.
Coot,
That was exactly where I had my money: on the new Leica S3! At the rate that we now have these leapfrogging models, why not have Mr. Reichmann review the S2 one week, and then, the next week, bring out the S3 before the S2 even ships. As they say in those Guinness tv ads: "Brilliant!" Rumor has it that the S3 body retails at $37,995 with the 30-day warranty, and the new updated RAW rezzes in in a blazing twelve seconds. And the S4 is due out by summer.
-
Maybe it's that mythical Nikon MX-whatever...
Either Nikon or Canon would be fine... or a major problem because I would then be really tempted... but my bet is on Pentax.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
PLEASE. PLEASE, PLEASE be Nikon or Canon. Enough already with this silly, buggy, low iso, featureless MF.
-
Either Nikon or Canon would be fine... or a major problem because I would then be really tempted... but my bet is on Pentax.
Cheers,
Bernard
Hartblei CAM, confirmed.
http://www.hartblei.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm (http://www.hartblei.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm)
peter
-
There's a spoil-sport in every crowd.
Michael
-
Hartblei CAM, confirmed.
http://www.hartblei.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm (http://www.hartblei.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm)
peter
Lol that looks like a camera Captain Spock would use.
-
Lol that looks like a camera Captain Spock would use.
Maybe, but with it Spock would be able to take photographs unlike anything anyone has ever done before!
Get ready to be amazed.
Michael
-
Maybe, but with it Spock would be able to take photographs unlike anything anyone has ever done before!
Get ready to be amazed.
Michael
I need autofocus and fast controls. But for the landscape/architect photog sure why not.
-
Maybe, but with it Spock would be able to take photographs unlike anything anyone has ever done before!
I love the basic theory. I always thought that Canon T/S lenses should be fitted with a tripod collar, to allow the lens to be mounted to the RRS head, instead of the body. And then shift from there. When you'd do that, the resulting files should line up exactly, to the pixel.
That's not a camera for me, but you've got to hand it to those people who are designing a camera body from scratch.
-
1/1600 is the duration at max power for the Profoto 8-A.
1/16oo is t o.5 of pro 8a
the data sheet does not state the relevant o.1, the obvious reason is that t o.5 sounds faster.
3x t o.5 is t o.1 usually, so a profoto a8 might have a flash duration t o.1 of about 1/5oo sec at 24oo w/s
-
Hartblei CAM, confirmed.
http://www.hartblei.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm (http://www.hartblei.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm)
Thanks.
They have basically built an interface between their super rotator lenses (well known already) and the backs.
Interesting, might become usable in the field the day the backs offer in back live view. For now I'll keep dreaming of a superrotator 40mm for my D3x, at least would be able to focus that combo accurately.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
There's a spoil-sport in every crowd.
Michael
after all you started the tease. inquisitive minds search for answers. nevertheless looking forward to that review,
peter
-
No Bernard,
They've done something much more than that. All will be revealed in a couple of weeks.
Michael
-
No Bernard,
They've done something much more than that. All will be revealed in a couple of weeks.
Michael
camera/backs with fantastic images already on the cf card?
in a fashion/ architecture/ car / product/ landscape version?
with 150 hi resolution motifs on the cf card including all rights?
that would be a real step ......
-
No Bernard,
They've done something much more than that. All will be revealed in a couple of weeks.
Michael
It does not exactly look like a set-up that is ready for action in the field in conditions under which landscape photographers tend to operate. Then again, I personally don't find Alpa cameras fitting that role either.
-
No Bernard,
They've done something much more than that. All will be revealed in a couple of weeks.
Michael
A COUPLE OF WEEKS Kill the video stuff, this the the internet! Knew nothing about this until a few hours ago but now need that review instantly if not before
-
No Bernard,
They've done something much more than that. All will be revealed in a couple of weeks.
OK, looking forward to it.
I hope you'll devote enough attention to the challenges of accurate focusing.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Thanks.
They have basically built an interface between their super rotator lenses (well known already) and the backs.
Interesting, might become usable in the field the day the backs offer in back live view. For now I'll keep dreaming of a superrotator 40mm for my D3x, at least would be able to focus that combo accurately.
Cheers,
Bernard
You would probably be better off with the Nikkor 45mm PC-E than the super-rotator 40mm for landscape work. I stopped lusting after the Hartblei 40mm after reading the DigLloyd DAP review and seeing how much field curvature and astigmatism the lens has. It might be a nice lens for some uses, but not for what I would want it for.
-
Forget the Hartblei lenses with regard to the Hartblei Cam. Simply forget them.
Michael
-
I always thought that Canon T/S lenses should be fitted with a tripod collar, to allow the lens to be mounted to the RRS head, instead of the body. And then shift from there. When you'd do that, the resulting files should line up exactly, to the pixel.
The problem is that without independent X and Y-axis shift knobs, the process is hardly practical. As it is today, with barrel-release-and-rotate, you'll throw the camera out of perpendicularity if the lens is mounted to the tripod and you need to adjust vertical and horizontal shifts. Canon would have to re-engeneer their shift mechanism for this to work properly, and missed this opportunity with the new TS-E lenses.
Pedro
-
The Hartblei Cam will be perfect with my 3,5/35, 2,8/45 and 2,0/80.
Tomas
-
Michael, you are such a teaser!
I'm guessing you'll blow everyone away with your review of the unannounced 1Ds MK IV @ 28Mp
Michael,
NOVA!
can't wait to read your view on this.
-
Forget the Hartblei lenses with regard to the Hartblei Cam. Simply forget them.
Michael
How are Nikon's PC-E lenses compared to the latest TSE-II from Canon?