Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: Guest on March 30, 2004, 09:37:43 am
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Did you earn a degree in opinionated, arrogance, or is it just a personality flaw that came naturally???
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Actually,
I fully stand behind my statement that you should all be kissing Michael's feet for what he provides - entirely free of charge. I used to have a similar, very successful site, focused on audio. I finally gave up because too may people complained that I didn't spend x amount of time doing what they wanted me to do. All on my own time mind you. If Michael were charging you for this service, I'd have no qualms. However, I have zero tolerance for people who want something for nothing. It's a big shortcoming with today's society. I'm going to leave this thread with that thought as it's entirely off-topic.
Michael, if you're reading, thanks for all your work! I appreciate it.
I thank you as well for pointing that out.
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Will you people please give Michael a break!
....If your not happy here, please go away and leave the rest of us to enjoy our photography.
Joe,
I'm not sure just who you believe yourself to be speaking for with your arbitrary classification of members into "you people", and "the rest of us".
Don't assume that any who may have one-more tech query than you might have (on a given day) are hopeless compulsives, without an attachment to the "real world" of photography.
Also do not assume that your appreciation of Michael's efforts is anything new or unique. Many of us have been appreciating(and saying so) for years.
Some have recently asked (usually quite respectfully) for info of the sort that was previously often presented on this site(before anti-"pixel peeping" was in vogue).
Before we begin inspecting one-another for the right color arm-bands, I hope we can return to a mutually respectful understanding that another's question may not be OURS , but IS of interest to that poster. In exactly the same way that our next one may not 'excite" the general readership, but hopefully will be tolerated, and perhaps even answered by someone willing.
Yes, I found your post a little arrogant. I'm guessing that you are burnt-out from your sound-equipment forum frustrations, and have even less than the minimum-required level of patience for dealing with the inevitable differences of opinion/interest that are found on ANY forum.
Take two deep breaths and call us in the morning. ::
Larry
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Larry, and others...
Again, I apologize for coming off sounding so harsh. What really turned me off was the "Where's the Beef" post. Although it started with a few requests, It quickly became criticism and outright complaining. I do realize that most members of this board are regular people who aren't pixel peepers, appreciate all that Michael offers and have done so for quite some time.
I also don't mind if people ask for a million things...pixel peeping or not. It's when they start demanding that I get upset.
Soooo...my comments were directed only to enlighten the under-appreciative, and to reiterate my support so Michael doesn't one day decide that his time might be better spent relaxing and shooting while turning the site over to a corporation who'll turn it into an advertising machine. Then we'll really see people complain.
Sorry to all I've offended - except those I meant to...you know who you are. :laugh: (a little humor people)
I doubt you have to worry about Michael being thin-skinned and just picking up his marbles and high-tailing it out of town.
He's not any Ross Perot who suddenly has a "new" leadership goal but if people "question" him and don't like his "hissing sound, of money streaming to Mexico" metaphor, he won't play with you anymore.
Michael, by contrasat, is well grounded, probably one of the most experienced photographers, reviewers, writers and opionated website demons around. He's solid on his feet because he IS so well grounded.
However, like any airplane in flight, the pilot benefits from his altimeter, compass and radar as well as signals from many scattered beacons below him.
The success of the video journal and this website is BECAUSE he's not only good at what he does but is able to match what he thinks people need with what his audience says they need. He flies the plane.
If there is a misunderstanding on where he is going, every so often he has to announce his new flight plan.
There was WAS some confusion, because PP excelled here at one time, allowing LL to help photographers recognise what quality digital pixels could offer. But that was then and this is now. Now, Michael redefined where LL needs to go in his opinion.
One word of caution to us all.
I don't think we are out of the Middle Ages. Rather we are just emerging from the Dark Ages, LOL!
In no less than 5-10 years we will laugh at our view that the industry matured in 2004!
We still have not faced the ability to print in wide enough DR to fully represent 8 bit images and wide dynamic range, never mind 16bit images.
We have Dark age concepts of ISO!
Pixel exposure should and will be automatically individualized to each pixel.
Settings will be based on quality of shadows and highlights and quantity of noise, color rendition recogniton of shadows and more.
We will no longer have a single ISO or pixel sensitivity over the whole sensor.
Light collection will stop when mathematically the individual pixel data bins, for each specified wavelength range, have counted enough charge to be accurate.
The chips may well be concave.
The lens materials will include negative refractivce index elements!
Images will be taken at rates of 10,000 per second and data built up in various image planes.
Shadows will be recognised specifically.
One will decide in PS 4D, which elements in the foreground, middle ground will be in focus.
These improvemnts in our pixels and how they make an image are only those that I'm pretty sure of, based on technology today.
For now, Michael, May well have lifted up his rod over the Red Sea and lead his followers out of the desert.
Still, my friends, we have may be forty years to wander in the dumb pixel wilderness!
Asher
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and jobs streaming to Mexico
Please tell me were are those new jobs in Mexico.
I guess you mixed up Mexico with China
I guess if you guys want to be purists, lets just ditch the Nikons and Canons, (Japanese workers, LOL, can just spend more time singing company songs and doing calesthenics for a while) and we'll go back to Kodak Cameras.
Well, that's fine, We can use the good old box camera, or the Ektar on my SpeedGraphic (all American) and Kodak can get someone to fuse some glass and buy from somewhere (whisper, Japan) lens grinding equipment, so we can have Kodak homebrew cameras once more.
We can't use the 14N because the bodies are made in Japan and the transistors in China and Taiwan and the software in India, Russia and Israel, for Gawdsake!
Meanwhile back in the USA, Ross Perot is counting the money he made selling "gas market demand control and adjusting software" to the greedy Bush friends which fleeced the Stae of California of Billions of $ in an artificially created gas shortage.
You see, the "sucking sound" was the sound of our money being siphoned off to friends of GW Mark II.
Face it folk, we are stuck in a tranwsorld row boat. We have to row together and their hole in the row boat can sink us too.
And MR? While P.P. may not be P.R. and DXO is, I just want a camera that won't give noise in the shadows and wont ruin my prints at ASA 400 with a sandstorm over the pixels that have "emerged from the middle ages".
I never have been P.R. anyway.
I just like taking pictures at the limit of what is possible.
If magic pixels, Digic II, DXO or love potient # nine will do it,
I'm for it!
I just want it to fit in my pocket without upsetting old ladies or inviting a following.
Asher
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People complain about others complaining.....? Really this forum is well run. If you want to see complaining and even name calling go to some of the FM forums. Michael, many thanks for your advice and services.
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Sorry for the false advertising...
Will you people please give Michael a break! It should be obvios by now that any issues with the camera would be clearly staed in the review. That being said, so would any amazing improvements in image quality.
The camera takes excellent images with a quality lens, and sharpness tends to fall off with the $69 tamrom 14-600 zoom (which, BTW, becomes a 800 due to the 1.3x crop factor).
In my line of work I come acroos the same type of hype with respect to audio gear all the time.
Q: "But how do the pre-amps sound"
A: "With your $15 radio shack mic and bathroom/vocal booth, they tend to sound a little harsh. But unit X can make all those problems dissapear."
I've never trusted sharpness tests on DSLR's because so much depends on lens selection. Michael's reviews get right to the heart of what makes the camera either good or bad. When has he ever recommended a camera that turned out to be a dog? When has he ever claimed a camera was capable of doing something it couldn't when it could or vice versa without either correcting his mistake if it were, or re-evaluating his position? He took a second shot at the 14n and did admit that in proper conditons it could produce pleasing results...that review alone put my faith in him. Most reviewers never "change their opinion" under the belief that people will lose faith in their abilities.
Michael seems to me to be a regular guy who also happens to be an excellent photographer, and most generous webmaster. You want more answers go out and buy one for yourself. If you don't like it, return it. Stop hammering a guy who's doing you a big favor.
Sorry for the rant, but there's too much of this in my own "real" life - I can't handle it in my virtual life. If your not happy here, please go away and leave the rest of us to enjoy our photography.
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Actually,
I did earn a degree...from the school of whining internet users.
Re-reading my post above - it may seem that I'm ripping into people with less financial needs or tech crazy gear heads. I'm not, what I am saying is that you can't complain about free information, nor can you expect any piece of gear to make your craft better. It may make the quality of the output better, bust as with audio, a photo of a piece of turd with a 10D, 1Ds, 1D, 1D mark II is still a piece of turd. If Michael sees anything that changes with any significance the quality of the turd, he always states it. If never had to "read between the lines" with his reviews.
I do apologize if I sound arrogant, I'm not at all. Opinionated? I sure hope so...
Most of what I said was toungue in cheek - however I fully stand behind my statement that you should all be kissing Michael's feet for what he provides - entirely free of charge. I used to have a similar, very successful site, focused on audio. I finally gave up because too may people complained that I didn't spend x amount of time doing what they wanted me to do. All on my own time mind you. If Michael were charging you for this service, I'd have no qualms. However, I have zero tolerance for people who want something for nothing. It's a big shortcoming with today's society. I'm going to leave this thread with that thought as it's entirely off-topic.
Michael, if you're reading, thanks for all your work! I appreciate it.
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Very well stated joedevico.
In my line of work I come acroos the same type of hype with respect to audio gear all the time.
Can't comment on the AV world, but if you think it's bad in photography you should see the hype/know-it-alls/opinionites in the computer tech world. I think they invented it! It's quite remarkable.
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Larry, and others...
Again, I apologize for coming off sounding so harsh. What really turned me off was the "Where's the Beef" post. Although it started with a few requests, It quickly became criticism and outright complaining. I do realize that most members of this board are regular people who aren't pixel peepers, appreciate all that Michael offers and have done so for quite some time.
I also don't mind if people ask for a million things...pixel peeping or not. It's when they start demanding that I get upset.
Soooo...my comments were directed only to enlighten the under-appreciative, and to reiterate my support so Michael doesn't one day decide that his time might be better spent relaxing and shooting while turning the site over to a corporation who'll turn it into an advertising machine. Then we'll really see people complain. :D
Sorry to all I've offended - except those I meant to...you know who you are. :laugh: (a little humor people)
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"He's not any Ross Perot who suddenly has a "new" leadership goal but if people "question" him and don't like his "hissing sound, of money streaming to Mexico" metaphor, he won't play with you anymore."
By the way, that hissing sound of money and jobs streaming to Mexico(and India) is getting louder all the time.
People scoffed at that remark back then, but now?
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and jobs streaming to Mexico
Please tell me were are those new jobs in Mexico. :(
I guess you mixed up Mexico with China :p
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IOW I appreciate all practical insights in equipment. Thanks Michael!
asher ::