Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Kim Bentsen on September 25, 2009, 12:49:47 pm

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Kim Bentsen on September 25, 2009, 12:49:47 pm
New top dog? MFD is far from dead with all this recent activity!

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/hassel...-60_and_h4d-50/ (http://www.photographyblog.com/news/hasselblad_h4d-60_and_h4d-50/)

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: SeanBK on September 25, 2009, 02:09:25 pm
Quote from: Kim Bentsen
New top dog? MFD is far from dead with all this recent activity!

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/hassel...-60_and_h4d-50/ (http://www.photographyblog.com/news/hasselblad_h4d-60_and_h4d-50/)

Nice pricing for H4D - 50. Though they didn't talk @ high iso.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: arashm on September 25, 2009, 02:17:49 pm
I wonder what the US pricing is going to be?
I also wonder how different Phocus 2.0 is going to be
interesting even though it's not on their site yet
am
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: arashm on September 25, 2009, 02:18:14 pm
double post
sorry
am
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 25, 2009, 02:51:27 pm
Quote from: arashm
I wonder what the US pricing is going to be?
I also wonder how different Phocus 2.0 is going to be
interesting even though it's not on their site yet
am

Phocus 2.0

- User configurable, save-able, and exportable(!) layout presets.  Can be shared amongst peers or used to streamline the interface.
- 'Triggers'.  ie Connect a CF card and the interface will switch to any of your layouts (For example, Import tools etc etc).  Or connect a camera and have the interface switch ot your own predefined layout and setup an adjustment  - ready to go
- Floatable tool Palettes
      - Which includes the Navigator tool, can be resized and used as a Loupe.
- Tethered capture interrupt - ie Shoot tethered and work with images simultaneously

More to come - we are still at our Partner Meeting!
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: SeanBK on September 25, 2009, 02:52:40 pm
Quote from: arashm
I wonder what the US pricing is going to be?
 Based on today's conversion it should be $29,000 but I believe it will be close to $24,999. Just my gut feeling based on their past pricing structure. Either way that is camera kit thus it does look good.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: jing q on September 25, 2009, 02:58:30 pm
Quote from: Kim Bentsen
New top dog? MFD is far from dead with all this recent activity!

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/hassel...-60_and_h4d-50/ (http://www.photographyblog.com/news/hasselblad_h4d-60_and_h4d-50/)

fascinating. I wonder how well this will actually work. is the digital back still exactly the same and is the technology in the body itself?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Doug Peterson on September 25, 2009, 03:17:39 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Phocus 2.0
- User configurable, save-able, and exportable(!) layout presets.  Can be shared amongst peers or used to streamline the interface.
- Floatable tool Palettes
      - Which includes the Navigator tool, can be resized and used as a Loupe.
- Tethered capture interrupt - ie Shoot tethered and work with images simultaneously

All of which are currently in Capture One 4.8.3 Pro (released and proven rock solid) and able to be used with Phase One, Canon, and Nikon cameras, and at-some-point Leaf.

Sorry David, couldn't resist the "my ____ is bigger than yours" game. To be fair, the H4D looks exciting. If/when it ships I look forward to seeing what you guys are doing with yaw-detection focus-adjustment. My gut feeling is I'd rather control the focus myself than let the camera adjust it for me, but I'm definitely ready to be convinced otherwise.


Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
- 'Triggers'.  ie Connect a CF card and the interface will switch to any of your layouts (For example, Import tools etc etc).  Or connect a camera and have the interface switch ot your own predefined layout and setup an adjustment  - ready to go

A novel, and very good idea!

Doug Peterson  ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: chrisstraley on September 25, 2009, 03:18:07 pm
Does anyone know what it will costs to upgrade from a Hasseblad H3dII 31 to the H4d platflorm?  Does Hasseblad do upgrades?  I guess I would like to know if Hasselbad does software upgrades taking my h3dII to a h4d?  Thanks
Chris
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BJL on September 25, 2009, 04:13:43 pm
Quote from: chrisstraley
Does anyone know what it will costs to upgrade from a Hasseblad H3dII 31 to the H4d platflorm?  Does Hasseblad do upgrades?  I guess I would like to know if Hasselbad does software upgrades taking my h3dII to a h4d?  Thanks
Chris
Stay tuned: that press release ends with
"H3DII-50 cameras purchased between now and Q1, 2010 will be upgraded to the H4D-50 free of charge. A program is also being announced for owners of H3D-31 and H3D-39 cameras to step up onto the H4D platform."

The new AF system clearly involves new hardware in the H4D body, not just a firmware update: it uses a motion sensor to measure the rotation when you focus and then recompose:
"Hasselblad has used modern yaw rate sensor technology to measure angular velocity in an innovative way. The result is the new Absolute Position Lock (APL) processor, which forms the foundation of Hasselblad’s True Focus feature."

[Added] And some US prices, from http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/cont...d2fdf6fb10a5b52 (http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/news/e3i8a59b9acd0fa94f39d2fdf6fb10a5b52)
"The H4D-60 will ship in November for a price of approximately $42,535. ... Delivery of the H4D-50 will begin in early 2010 for a price of $29,332."
Looks like a straight currency conversion from the Euro prices.


P. S. Where is Jonathan Weinke? This is an attempt to address a problem with "focus and recompose" that JW has often discussed and documented. My guess is that the will vote for multi-point AF despite Paulsen's put-down.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: erick.boileau on September 25, 2009, 04:40:19 pm
a new model for only a better AF ?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 25, 2009, 04:44:06 pm
Short YouTube video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFkKMmF8X9A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFkKMmF8X9A)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: paul_jones on September 25, 2009, 04:51:26 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Phocus 2.0

- User configurable, save-able, and exportable(!) layout presets.  Can be shared amongst peers or used to streamline the interface.
- 'Triggers'.  ie Connect a CF card and the interface will switch to any of your layouts (For example, Import tools etc etc).  Or connect a camera and have the interface switch ot your own predefined layout and setup an adjustment  - ready to go
- Floatable tool Palettes
      - Which includes the Navigator tool, can be resized and used as a Loupe.
- Tethered capture interrupt - ie Shoot tethered and work with images simultaneously

More to come - we are still at our Partner Meeting!

hi david, so does the focus off center, then recompose actually makes up for the differences in the focus plane? how does it do that?

still, when shooting on tripod, doing a difficult composite for example, you really cant be turning the camera every few shots. even thought the canons multipoint focus points don't quite go wide enough for all shots, most of the time there is a focus point exactly where you need it. so you lock down, and shoot all day in one direction. and even if you have a subject away from a focus point, its really extremely quick to click into live view at 10x and check that way, then take a shot - almost instantly from live view.

i dont have a hassy back, just a aptus on a h1, and i really love my camera. but to be honest, the last dozen shoots ive really wanted to use medium format, but on the day its just been too tough, and ive just finished the shoot with the canon.
its been like ive needed to take my hassy kit to shoots so the clients take me seriously, but when i shoot some shots with the canon and they see that file popping up on a 30" screen, they are completely happy with the canon. if they need larger file sizes, a can shoot a top plate, left and right in less time than my aptus can take a single shot, then i have a monster file, far in excess of 60mp.
im not trying to hassy bash, i just really want some big improvements so i get excited about having medium format again. more megapixels and a slight af adjustment isn't really cutting it.
if its really that hard to add more higher tech, usefull improvements to the H, at least add a vertical grip and a better color scheme (ie, black).

paul
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: douglasf13 on September 25, 2009, 05:01:26 pm
[quote name='dougpetersonci' date='Sep 25 2009, 12:17 PM' post='313001']
All of which are currently in Capture One 4.8.3 Pro (released and proven rock solid) and able to be used with Phase One, Canon, and Nikon cameras, and at-some-point Leaf.

Sorry David, couldn't resist the "my ____ is bigger than yours" game. To be fair, the H4D looks exciting. If/when it ships I look forward to seeing what you guys are doing with yaw-detection focus-adjustment. My gut feeling is I'd rather control the focus myself than let the camera adjust it for me, but I'm definitely ready to be convinced otherwise.


  Any chance of Sony A900 tethered integration in the near future?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BlasR on September 25, 2009, 05:02:12 pm
Quote from: dougpetersonci
All of which are currently in Capture One 4.8.3 Pro (released and proven rock solid) and able to be used with Phase One, Canon, and Nikon cameras, and at-some-point Leaf.

Sorry David, couldn't resist the "my ____ is bigger than yours" game. To be fair, the H4D looks exciting. If/when it ships I look forward to seeing what you guys are doing with yaw-detection focus-adjustment. My gut feeling is I'd rather control the focus myself than let the camera adjust it for me, but I'm definitely ready to be convinced otherwise.




A novel, and very good idea!

[font= \"Arial\"]Doug Peterson  ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)[/font]


Doug,

Sorry to jump in here to,

Phocus,don't have all those nice things of C1, but, have customer support is the best (to me)

 is much better then all those nice things.  I say it for experience.

Phocus is free.



I pay $500.00 for C1 pro( I don't know the cost now)


I used to have p25 and p45+.  So I'm still using C1

BlasR
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gwhitf on September 25, 2009, 05:51:26 pm
Quote from: paul_jones
if its really that hard to add more higher tech, usefull improvements to the H, at least add a vertical grip and a better color scheme (ie, black).

David Grover's always here to pump the new announcements, but I wonder if you'll get a professional answer to this question above?

Let's watch and see...
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Voltman on September 25, 2009, 08:00:01 pm
Quote from: Kim Bentsen
New top dog? MFD is far from dead with all this recent activity!

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/hassel...-60_and_h4d-50/ (http://www.photographyblog.com/news/hasselblad_h4d-60_and_h4d-50/)
Sounds like Hocus Phocus to me ... " ...Such multi-point AF solutions are often tedious and inflexible to work with, however, and do not really solve the problem, claims Poulsen."  - what's this guy been smoking?  He should go pick up a Canon or Nikon and see what AF is all about.  

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Boris_Epix on September 25, 2009, 10:11:33 pm
Poulsen is so full of (sh)it. That's probably why he's managing Hasselblad so wobbly. Give him a spine.

Instead of communicating a strategy/goal and sticking to it you get all those contradicting statements from Hasselblad.

One day they declare that Hassy is only announcing products that are ready to ship. Next you notice is how they pre-announce the H3DII-60 vaporware OVER A YEAR ahead of time.

Suddenly they declare the end of MFDB upgrade programs - because pricing is so much more affordable - and now we have again upgrade programs.

Pricing is more affordable? My ass. Over 40 k$ for the same ol' crappy unergonomic H1 design with more pixels and a bigger screen

One day the H3D 39 is full frame. Next day it's the first 48mm full frame dslr. Suddenly the PhaseOne P65+ sensor is not full frame and the H4D-60 will only have 94% full-frame 645 coverage Poulsen tells at Photokina.

Why doesn't the press release talk about live-view? Because it will not be available or because they don't want to get H3DII-50 owners mad?


Just for the record: Canon and Nikon Fullframe multipoint focus works GREAT. Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 are not even close. And this press release is proving that Hasselblad left photographers out in the dark knowing there's a real problem with off-center focusing since H1, H2, H3.

What's next? Is Hassy going to admit that one color profile can NOT reproduce good color in every imaginable lighting situation? I wonder how anybody could think that one canned profile could cover candle, sky, shadow, sunset, dawn, neon, tungsten, flash and most importantly MIXED light when the emitted light has different spikes in different ranges of wavelengths and the sensors spectral response is clearly and measurably reacting different to different light sources. Why does everybody else care about calibration and profiling? Is everyone but Hassy nuts?

It feels like Hasselblad will look at the market, check-out what everybody else does and then do the opposite followed by trash-talking competition and perfectly working technology.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: photo570 on September 26, 2009, 12:44:17 am
Perhaps a little out there, but generally I have to agree. WTF!! You have got to be kidding, this sounds like the most complicated way possible to solve the problem photographers have been bitching about since day one, single point AF!!

I have a H1, but will think long and hard about any upgrade, which I was looking at in the next 12mths. A very odd direction to go indeed, I am sure the dollars on R&D for this rather convoluted solution could have gotten three widely spaced AF sensors????

Just plain bemused.   ;-)

Jason Berge.



Quote from: Boris_Epix
Poulsen is so full of (sh)it. That's probably why he's managing Hasselblad so wobbly. Give him a spine.

Instead of communicating a strategy/goal and sticking to it you get all those contradicting statements from Hasselblad.

One day they declare that Hassy is only announcing products that are ready to ship. Next you notice is how they pre-announce the H3DII-60 vaporware OVER A YEAR ahead of time.

Suddenly they declare the end of MFDB upgrade programs - because pricing is so much more affordable - and now we have again upgrade programs.

Pricing is more affordable? My ass. Over 40 k$ for the same ol' crappy unergonomic H1 design with more pixels and a bigger screen

One day the H3D 39 is full frame. Next day it's the first 48mm full frame dslr. Suddenly the PhaseOne P65+ sensor is not full frame and the H4D-60 will only have 94% full-frame 645 coverage Poulsen tells at Photokina.

Why doesn't the press release talk about live-view? Because it will not be available or because they don't want to get H3DII-50 owners mad?


Just for the record: Canon and Nikon Fullframe multipoint focus works GREAT. Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 are not even close. And this press release is proving that Hasselblad left photographers out in the dark knowing there's a real problem with off-center focusing since H1, H2, H3.

What's next? Is Hassy going to admit that one color profile can NOT reproduce good color in every imaginable lighting situation? I wonder how anybody could think that one canned profile could cover candle, sky, shadow, sunset, dawn, neon, tungsten, flash and most importantly MIXED light when the emitted light has different spikes in different ranges of wavelengths and the sensors spectral response is clearly and measurably reacting different to different light sources. Why does everybody else care about calibration and profiling? Is everyone but Hassy nuts?

It feels like Hasselblad will look at the market, check-out what everybody else does and then do the opposite followed by trash-talking competition and perfectly working technology.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: EricWHiss on September 26, 2009, 12:57:10 am
Sounds interesting and certainly I'm curious to see if it works in practice.  I could see how it might be faster than trying to dial in the right focus point in the DSLR.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: schaubild on September 26, 2009, 01:27:30 am
Quote from: Boris_Epix
......
Why doesn't the press release talk about live-view? Because it will not be available or because they don't want to get H3DII-50 owners mad?

......


That was exactly the subject I was missing too. Makes now more than 10 months without a feature that was promised (and paid for) from day one. Hassleblad = lots of marketing promises. Seeing is believing.

 


Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: TechTalk on September 26, 2009, 01:34:40 am
Quote from: Boris_Epix
It feels like Hasselblad will look at the market, check-out what everybody else does and then do the opposite followed by trash-talking competition and perfectly working technology.
I accept you as an expert in "trash-talk".

Try adding some fiber to your diet. Really. It might help you see things in a whole new light!
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: erick.boileau on September 26, 2009, 01:45:12 am
...
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Graham Mitchell on September 26, 2009, 07:17:00 am
Quote from: photo570
You have got to be kidding, this sounds like the most complicated way possible to solve the problem photographers have been bitching about since day one, single point AF!!

It also doesn't help at all if the camera is on a tripod.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on September 26, 2009, 07:58:30 am
I don't know what all the uproar is about.  It is not like anyone in here is forced to buy the H4.  Changing the name is pure marketing but that's what companies do.  Car companies.  Electronic companies.  Software companies.  Is it misleading? No, as long as they are upgrading and improving "something".  Obviously the new Phocus software will be available to everyone so that really is a different issue.  But the 4 is not required.  If you are getting great images with the 1,2 or 3 don't do it.  It's not a technology race from our perspective unless you just want to have a bigger/faster machine than anyone else.  The more interesting debate will be how they treat recent 50 buyers and how far back they go, on a purchase timeline, for their upgrade "path".   The mistake companies are making these days is forgetting that their customers decide their future and that their actions towards their customers are not forgotten and easily discussed by hundreds on the internet.  So, treat a customer bad these days and the negative affect will be in the thousands of future customers not just a few neighbors.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 26, 2009, 08:07:17 am
Quote from: dougpetersonci
All of which are currently in Capture One 4.8.3 Pro (released and proven rock solid) and able to be used with Phase One, Canon, and Nikon cameras, and at-some-point Leaf.

Sorry David, couldn't resist the "my ____ is bigger than yours" game. To be fair, the H4D looks exciting. If/when it ships I look forward to seeing what you guys are doing with yaw-detection focus-adjustment. My gut feeling is I'd rather control the focus myself than let the camera adjust it for me, but I'm definitely ready to be convinced otherwise.

Doug, please. Posting six lines of some new Phocus features does not come under the banner of willy waving?

Also, yes Capture One is a proven platform - no doubt about that.  If you want to get into a conversation about 'Rock Solid' performance, let me know.

;-)

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 26, 2009, 08:12:19 am
Quote from: paul_jones
hi david, so does the focus off center, then recompose actually makes up for the differences in the focus plane? how does it do that?

still, when shooting on tripod, doing a difficult composite for example, you really cant be turning the camera every few shots. even thought the canons multipoint focus points don't quite go wide enough for all shots, most of the time there is a focus point exactly where you need it. so you lock down, and shoot all day in one direction. and even if you have a subject away from a focus point, its really extremely quick to click into live view at 10x and check that way, then take a shot - almost instantly from live view.

i dont have a hassy back, just a aptus on a h1, and i really love my camera. but to be honest, the last dozen shoots ive really wanted to use medium format, but on the day its just been too tough, and ive just finished the shoot with the canon.
its been like ive needed to take my hassy kit to shoots so the clients take me seriously, but when i shoot some shots with the canon and they see that file popping up on a 30" screen, they are completely happy with the canon. if they need larger file sizes, a can shoot a top plate, left and right in less time than my aptus can take a single shot, then i have a monster file, far in excess of 60mp.
im not trying to hassy bash, i just really want some big improvements so i get excited about having medium format again. more megapixels and a slight af adjustment isn't really cutting it.
if its really that hard to add more higher tech, usefull improvements to the H, at least add a vertical grip and a better color scheme (ie, black).

paul

Hi Paul,

In answer to your first question, the camera is fitted with hardware that is becoming more common now in products such as the iPhone, Wii, etc etc.

Therefore calculating the angle the camera is positioned at in relation to its focus point is quite easy - just a bit of Trigonometry.

I agree we need to get people excited about MF again.  But this is a step in the right direction.

The 'black' color argument is one that crops up from time to time.  Absolutely.  Well, all I can say is that we do listen to the users, so keep the voices high and lets see what happens.

David

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 26, 2009, 08:14:39 am
Quote from: gwhitf
David Grover's always here to pump the new announcements, but I wonder if you'll get a professional answer to this question above?

Let's watch and see...

George/Gerald/Mark,

With respect - posting my few lines of information of Phocus 2.0 is hardly 'pumping the new announcements'.  Check and see I did not also start this thread.

Anyway, yes I have answered Paul, and be honest, I have rarely skirting around issues in our own online discussions.

D
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 26, 2009, 08:20:59 am
Quote from: Boris_Epix
Poulsen is so full of (sh)it. That's probably why he's managing Hasselblad so wobbly. Give him a spine.

Instead of communicating a strategy/goal and sticking to it you get all those contradicting statements from Hasselblad.

One day they declare that Hassy is only announcing products that are ready to ship. Next you notice is how they pre-announce the H3DII-60 vaporware OVER A YEAR ahead of time.

Suddenly they declare the end of MFDB upgrade programs - because pricing is so much more affordable - and now we have again upgrade programs.

Pricing is more affordable? My ass. Over 40 k$ for the same ol' crappy unergonomic H1 design with more pixels and a bigger screen

One day the H3D 39 is full frame. Next day it's the first 48mm full frame dslr. Suddenly the PhaseOne P65+ sensor is not full frame and the H4D-60 will only have 94% full-frame 645 coverage Poulsen tells at Photokina.

Why doesn't the press release talk about live-view? Because it will not be available or because they don't want to get H3DII-50 owners mad?


Just for the record: Canon and Nikon Fullframe multipoint focus works GREAT. Hasselblad and Mamiya 645 are not even close. And this press release is proving that Hasselblad left photographers out in the dark knowing there's a real problem with off-center focusing since H1, H2, H3.

What's next? Is Hassy going to admit that one color profile can NOT reproduce good color in every imaginable lighting situation? I wonder how anybody could think that one canned profile could cover candle, sky, shadow, sunset, dawn, neon, tungsten, flash and most importantly MIXED light when the emitted light has different spikes in different ranges of wavelengths and the sensors spectral response is clearly and measurably reacting different to different light sources. Why does everybody else care about calibration and profiling? Is everyone but Hassy nuts?

It feels like Hasselblad will look at the market, check-out what everybody else does and then do the opposite followed by trash-talking competition and perfectly working technology.


Boris, Please.

There were two choices in regard to multi point AF.  Nobody builds an AF sensor that covers the 645 format.  Nobody.  So, you can either make it yourself (currently not possible within our means) or you can say 'Sorry guys, you will have to stick with the one point'.

There was a third option which is what we have done.  I don't think anybody is saying that Nikon and Canon multi AF is no good, we are simply presenting an alternative as opposed to doing nothing at all.

No we will not admit that one color profile for all scenes does not work.  Why?  Because is works exactly as it should.  Don't take my word for it, ask a customer.  Also ask institutions like the Tate museum in the UK who use several Hasselblad systems and do not feel the need to custom color profiling.

http://www.hasselblad.com/user-showcase/the-tate-london.aspx (http://www.hasselblad.com/user-showcase/the-tate-london.aspx)

Best,


D
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 26, 2009, 08:22:16 am
Quote from: schaubild
That was exactly the subject I was missing too. Makes now more than 10 months without a feature that was promised (and paid for) from day one. Hassleblad = lots of marketing promises. Seeing is believing.

 

Hi Schaubild,

It was unfortunately missed out of the press release.  But Live View for the H3D50 is due for October 2009.

D
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: vjbelle on September 26, 2009, 08:42:14 am
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Hi Schaubild,

It was unfortunately missed out of the press release.  But Live View for the H3D50 is due for October 2009.

D
Does this mean then that all of the upcoming H4D cameras will have live view?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 26, 2009, 09:06:58 am
Quote from: vjbelle
Does this mean then that all of the upcoming H4D cameras will have live view?

We do not plan to exclude Live Video from anything.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Voltman on September 26, 2009, 09:19:27 am
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Boris, Please.

..  Nobody builds an AF sensor that covers the 645 format.  Nobody.

Hmmmm .... what's the point .... only one company ships a digital back to cover that 645 frame (well at least 96% of it) and it ain't yours... But yep yer right there about AF. Nobody does AF for 645. And that's the whole point you've missed for several years and many to come from what I'm reading....

But how about simply a multi-point AF system that covered at most 66% of that 645 frame which Nikon and Canon currently (and have for years) done??? Oh no, let's go build a yaw sensor that makes the shooter point directly at the point of focus and then reframe the camera to the composition desired.  Wow I bet that really works in a live situation with even slightly moving subjects (I guess you've dismissed dynamic focus or any closest subject features).  Come on and get real dude.

On the other hand the YouTube video was cute even though I was afraid the pop-up flash might deploy itself amongst all those movements.  Is it true you've upgraded the flash to GN 13?  That should be worth a few extra thousand ....
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Voltman on September 26, 2009, 09:21:01 am
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
We do not plan to exclude Live Video from anything.
Than why cannot we read that on a Hasselblad website???
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 26, 2009, 09:29:29 am
Quote from: Voltman
Hmmmm .... what's the point .... only one company ships a digital back to cover that 645 frame (well at least 96% of it) and it ain't yours... But yep yer right there about AF. Nobody does AF for 645. And that's the whole point you've missed for several years and many to come from what I'm reading....

But how about simply a multi-point AF system that covered at most 66% of that 645 frame which Nikon and Canon currently (and have for years) done??? Oh no, let's go build a yaw sensor that makes the shooter point directly at the point of focus and then reframe the camera to the composition desired.  Wow I bet that really works in a live situation with even slightly moving subjects (I guess you've dismissed dynamic focus or any closest subject features).  Come on and get real dude.

On the other hand the YouTube video was cute even though I was afraid the pop-up flash might deploy itself amongst all those movements.  Is it true you've upgraded the flash to GN 13?  That should be worth a few extra thousand ....

Then you are fortunate to be blessed with the most powerful of voting options.  You simply don't buy it, and we think again, no?

Suffice to say that more than 50% of business so far this year has been to customers who had previously not bought any Medium Format digital gear.  So I take solace in that we are delivering something to those guys which offers something additional to 35mm.

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: paulmoorestudio on September 26, 2009, 09:38:05 am
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Then you are fortunate to be blessed with the most powerful of voting options.  You simply don't buy it, and we think again, no?

Suffice to say that more than 50% of business so far this year has been to customers who had previously not bought any Medium Format digital gear.  So I take solace in that we are delivering something to those guys which offers something additional to 35mm.

thanks for putting up the info david, I think it is amazing that you even bother with the crap some people spew.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Voltman on September 26, 2009, 10:17:06 am
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Then you are fortunate to be blessed with the most powerful of voting options.  You simply don't buy it, and we think again, no?

Exactly the thinking that's the death knell for Hasselblad these days....  and the other MFD folks if they can't pay attention - but at least they're trying....



Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: James R Russell on September 26, 2009, 11:39:49 am
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Then you are fortunate to be blessed with the most powerful of voting options.  You simply don't buy it, and we think again, no?

Suffice to say that more than 50% of business so far this year has been to customers who had previously not bought any Medium Format digital gear.  So I take solace in that we are delivering something to those guys which offers something additional to 35mm.

I don't know why everyone gives Hasselblad so much grief.  Just like every business in the world today, they've had to modify their business model back and forth but right now the world keeps going back and forth, so it would be foolish not to adapt.

Medium format is always compared to 35mm and I 've done it also, but the thing is in the history of photography medium format has always been slower and more deliberate than 35mm, 35mm has always been faster and more adaptable.  There is nothing that's really changed in that regard.

I don't own a Hasselblad, but I do know they are the only larger than 35mm camera maker that has a complete lens line and I don't won't to debate this open closed thing because I think it's silly, because #1 85% of the worlds professional images shot larger than 35mm are shot with a Hasselblad camera so no other maker in practice is really locked out, #2, why would Hasselblad or any company or person give their newest and best to a competitor?

I think that corrective focus thing will be a benefit if ti works, I think Hasselblad's newest software looks good, though that's just an observation, not from someone that's tried either.

I did do some tests a few years ago with a blad a leaf and a phase and at that point I think the hasselblad had the best skin tones, though with flexcolor I thought the software was the least intuitive and also at that stage Hasselblad was slower than Phase with uppng their iso, but today I think it's about even.

At the time I sold the Aptus, went with the Phase and only because c-1 version 3 was the most stable and workable for what I do.  I still think v3 is great software, though the previews are somewhat challanged, but that's a whole nother' story.

Anyway, if I was buying new medum format today, I'd give the blad a hard look, just because they offer a complete camera system and lenses and Hasselblad seems to have a willingness to hold prices down.

A few years ago I wouldn't have made that statement, but today I think they've improved and honestly I love Hasselblad's marketing with the way they present themselves on their website, their photographer features and victor magazine.  I think that does a lot of good for our profession.

As far as black, I'd rather see a Batman type of Titanium black, like the way they usually photograph the camera.

Rich and exotic.

[attachment=16816:blad.jpg]

JR
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: nikf on September 26, 2009, 11:56:07 am
I would simply like to know if the screen on the back and zooming got any improvements. These are some basic and practical things for shooters like me who most of the time
take pictures un-tethered. I have 100% zooming in on the user button but there is no way to move around with the cursor buttons to check other parts of the frame than in
the middle. That's annoying and I have all my Nikons setup this way: one button press -> 100% view - moving around with the cursor. Why this is not possible on my H3DII-31 is
beyond me. Of course I mentioned this to my Hasselblad representative.
The display on the back is really not up to the task. Even in dim light recently, when I was shooting in Iceland, I could not see really what was going on with sharpness and I relied
on my technique to get sharp shots. I would prefer a way to double check in the field without schlepping a laptop around. With my Nikon D3 or even the lowly D90 I can see everything
even in brighter daylight.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: smoody on September 26, 2009, 12:21:06 pm
Exciting stuff and a creative solution given the current technology limitations. If it works, I'd much rather focus and recompose than dial-in a focus point that may or may not be placed exactly where I want to focus. I've wanted to upgrade beyond 35mm-sized sensors for a while but with all of the new products in the pipeline (S2, new Pentax 645 body for potentially under $10K USD, etc.), it has made the buy/no-buy/when-to-buy/what-to-buy decision difficult. But, in my humble opinion, this sort of innovation makes the decision much easier.

Thanks to the original member who started this thread.

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 26, 2009, 12:37:04 pm
Quote from: nikf
I would simply like to know if the screen on the back and zooming got any improvements. These are some basic and practical things for shooters like me who most of the time
take pictures un-tethered. I have 100% zooming in on the user button but there is no way to move around with the cursor buttons to check other parts of the frame than in
the middle. That's annoying and I have all my Nikons setup this way: one button press -> 100% view - moving around with the cursor. Why this is not possible on my H3DII-31 is
beyond me. Of course I mentioned this to my Hasselblad representative.
The display on the back is really not up to the task. Even in dim light recently, when I was shooting in Iceland, I could not see really what was going on with sharpness and I relied
on my technique to get sharp shots. I would prefer a way to double check in the field without schlepping a laptop around. With my Nikon D3 or even the lowly D90 I can see everything
even in brighter daylight.

The H4D60 has an improved higher resolution screen.

I am a little unsure of the exact spec so have not commented so far. I'll reply next week when I am back at base.

I agree the focus check function should also have scrolling capability. I shall bring that up.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gwhitf on September 26, 2009, 01:01:23 pm
With advertising jobs, most of the time I'm locked down on a tripod, shooting to a layout. I would not want the camera body to be in a slightly different place each time that you brought it back after recomposing.

Also, in advertising, you're always planning on Head Swaps, so you want the frame pretty much locked down, frame to frame, so that everything stays in registration.

I cannot imagine, each and every frame, moving the camera body to the focus point, and then bringing it back to recompose. Frame after frame. What would you have to do -- unlock the camera position, go find the focus point, then hold down some button, and then recompose, make sure the horizon is level, and then relock the tripod, and then shoot? Each and every frame?

I guess it's a cool idea, if you're into NASA stuff, but if you're doing ad work, down in the trenches, you want the camera locked down. That's why I'd opt for Canon or Nikon, with multi point AF. Not that that is perfect either, but it's a pretty rare job where the focus point is dead center for me.

I've found that, with these digital cameras, the focus tolerance is next to nothing, and I cannot rely on Manual Focus any longer. The viewfinder is either too small, or what I'm seeing is not exactly what's being conveyed to the sensor. The AF point in the 5dII pretty much nails it every time. I've heard the same is true with Nikon, maybe even better than Canon.

It seems to me that the majority of the MF market share is now headed toward advanced amateurs, which is fine on some level, but a shame on another level.

Mr. Grover, are there plans at all for a Vertical Grip for the H body? For people who don't shoot landscapes and sunsets?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: smoody on September 26, 2009, 01:01:53 pm

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
The H4D60 has an improved higher resolution screen.

I assume that all of the features in the H4D-60 will also come standard in the H4D-50 -- improved screen, True Focus with APL, etc. I've just noticed that on the Haselblad site and in the press releases, they really only mention those features in the context of the H4D-60. I'm assuming the two cameras have the exact same feature set and specs (sensor and sensor-related differences aside), but I just want to make sure.

Thanks,

   Scott

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: paul_jones on September 26, 2009, 02:42:01 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Hi Paul,

In answer to your first question, the camera is fitted with hardware that is becoming more common now in products such as the iPhone, Wii, etc etc.

Therefore calculating the angle the camera is positioned at in relation to its focus point is quite easy - just a bit of Trigonometry.

I agree we need to get people excited about MF again.  But this is a step in the right direction.

The 'black' color argument is one that crops up from time to time.  Absolutely.  Well, all I can say is that we do listen to the users, so keep the voices high and lets see what happens.

David


thanks or the reply david. its good to have someone at least listening from hasselblad.

paul
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: nikf on September 26, 2009, 03:46:30 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
The H4D60 has an improved higher resolution screen.

I am a little unsure of the exact spec so have not commented so far. I'll reply next week when I am back at base.

I agree the focus check function should also have scrolling capability. I shall bring that up.

Thank you for the answer. Good to know that the screen is improved, hopefully in brightness too!
It would help a lot if you can find a way to suggest the scrolling capability I (and others) wish for a long time to the developers.
That's probably not too much hassle to realize because the scrolling function is already there, albeit in a different way.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: markowich on September 26, 2009, 03:51:24 pm
david,
has the H3DII 60 been cancelled? will there be an upgrade path from the H3DII 50 to the H4DII 60? peter
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: paul_jones on September 26, 2009, 04:31:08 pm
Hi David, Just one more question, what are these contacts for? Did Hasselblad consider the vertical grip when they designed the body?

cheers paul
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on September 26, 2009, 05:25:48 pm
Given the fact that the guy was right, canon and nikon FF cameras have AF sensors that cover less than half the frame, there is probably a reason as to why multiple focus points over a large area is either difficult or at least very expensive to do. Port that over to 645 and it seems that 'blad have taken the only real option within a reasonable budget. I'd certainly love to see that technology on DSLR's, shooting wide open a slight tilt of the head even with the correct focus point can throw the focus back out. It is also probable that 'blad know what type of shooting most of their AF using customers are doing and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't mainly people photography, not locked down tripod stuff.

Would be nice to see a 30 megapixel version of the H4D wouldn't it, would certainly make me think...
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: arashm on September 26, 2009, 05:36:20 pm
Quote: Would be nice to see a 30 megapixel version of the H4D wouldn't it, would certainly make me think...


Actually I have to totally agree, I'm assuming that the 31 and 39 will eventually drop off the line up.
so this leaves the 50 as entry point to the H family !??
A H4D-31 priced properly would get people like me (frequent renters) to finally jump.
(or what about a H4D-40 with the ISO performance of the P40+

Note to David/Blad PLEASE... give us a vertical grip.
am
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: pcunite on September 26, 2009, 10:39:02 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Suffice to say that more than 50% of business so far this year has been to customers who had previously not bought any Medium Format digital gear.  So I take solace in that we are delivering something to those guys which offers something additional to 35mm.

I am under the impression that Rolexes are often sold to those with no prior mechanical watch ownership. It is the brand, the marketing message, the illusive of having the best, or at least what makes you appear the best, that causes some sales.

I love how that even though the Leica S2 is inferior in so many product checklist ways from what Hasselblad and Phase have sold others on (larger sensor / more MP / pixel pitch and so on) that it is yet more expensive. Again... it is not really what everyone says. It is the simple fact that because one has a large and very expensive camera that therefore the image will somehow be better.

Why not just say the obvious? With MFD you get even more DOF control from 35mm, you get really sharp looking onscreen 100% views, and you can print larger because by and large you get more pixels from MFD. For all other variables there is not a soul on the planet who could recognized the differences! Only someone emotionally attached to their equipment having just spent $30,000 is able to say that the final output is better! Why all the smoke and mirrors about everything?

The post is only my opinion and possibly very incorrect as some will no doubt state but not prove in a picture.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: lisa_r on September 26, 2009, 11:44:33 pm
Indeed even Canon, with all of their resources, have stated more than once that they are incapable (at the moment) of spreading the AF points any wider than they already are. Same with Nikon. Heaven knows why they can't, but I am sure if they could, they would.
Thanks David for braving the barracuda tank here.
And I agree with j.r., Hasselblad are looking more promising as they go. They are putting real thought into their cameras and software. And given the limited resources and tightening sales in this industry as a whole - I say bravo. (let's not forget their competitors are either a.) out of business or b.) doing jack shit like Mamiya seems to be doing in terms of innovation.)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: jing q on September 26, 2009, 11:44:39 pm
Quote from: pcunite
I am under the impression that Rolexes are often sold to those with no prior mechanical watch ownership. It is the brand, the marketing message, the illusive of having the best, or at least what makes you appear the best, that causes some sales.

I love how that even though the Leica S2 is inferior in so many product checklist ways from what Hasselblad and Phase have sold others on (larger sensor / more MP / pixel pitch and so on) that it is yet more expensive. Again... it is not really what everyone says. It is the simple fact that because one has a large and very expensive camera that therefore the image will somehow be better.

Why not just say the obvious? With MFD you get even more DOF control from 35mm, you get really sharp looking onscreen 100% views, and you can print larger because by and large you get more pixels from MFD. For all other variables there is not a soul on the planet who could recognized the differences! Only someone emotionally attached to their equipment having just spent $30,000 is able to say that the final output is better! Why all the smoke and mirrors about everything?

The post is only my opinion and possibly very incorrect as some will no doubt state but not prove in a picture.

urm I think you're making very broad assumptions by saying that no one else is able to see the final output is better.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: photo570 on September 27, 2009, 12:52:05 am
I know the point I was making in my earlier post was that this seems a more obtuse solution to improving the AF situation in MF than the blatantly obvious. I also don't know why they can't do it either.

Spacing the sensors out across the frame is the issue, is it not.

If it is not possible to build a larger "unit", why not just use three single point sensors units, which they already have, and actually physically space them apart??? What are we missing? I don't mean to be rude, because that just gets flamed, is this not possible, and why?

This solution in the H4 is ingenious, but overly complicated an impractical, an earlier poster gave the example of shooting to a layout, focus and recompose is not practical in some situations. That is the reason so many people "have their panties in a bunch", over this, they just want a better experience shooting with the H, and for some, this is the wrong answer to the question.

:-)
Jason


Quote from: lisa_r
Indeed even Canon, with all of their resources, have stated more than once that they are incapable (at the moment) of spreading the AF points any wider than they already are. Same with Nikon. Heaven knows why they can't, but I am sure if they could, they would.
Thanks David for braving the barracuda tank here.
And I agree with j.r., Hasselblad are looking more promising as they go. They are putting real thought into their cameras and software. And given the limited resources and tightening sales in this industry as a whole - I say bravo. (let's not forget their competitors are either a.) out of business or b.) doing jack shit like Mamiya seems to be doing in terms of innovation.)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: smoody on September 27, 2009, 02:12:16 am
Quote from: photo570
That is the reason so many people "have their panties in a bunch", over this...

Just curious what you mean by "so many people?" I've seen a few in a single thread say it's not for them -- clearly not enough to extrapolate that the majority of people will not like it, appreciate it, or use it. It definitely isn't the solution for everyone, but neither is user-selectable focus points. If you're doing a full body shot and need to do head substitutions, what are the odds that one of the focus points will fall on the eyes of your subject without having to let the focus points influence the framing?

As low-fi as it is, one almost needs something akin to what the iPhone does -- select a focus point with your finger or stylus and give any section of the sensor the potential to be a reference point for focus.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: photo570 on September 27, 2009, 02:23:18 am
This is not the first time this has been discussed, here and other boards as well. I never said anything about a majority of people either, I was eluding to the fact that I was not alone in my thoughts, that is all. I was mainly asking why they went this route, rather than what seemed a more straight way forward to me.

Jason.


Quote from: smoody
Just curious what you mean by "so many people?" I've seen a few in a single thread say it's not for them -- clearly not enough to extrapolate that the majority of people will not like it, appreciate it, or use it. It definitely isn't the solution for everyone, but neither is user-selectable focus points. If you're doing a full body shot and need to do head substitutions, what are the odds that one of the focus points will fall on the eyes of your subject without having to let the focus points influence the framing?

As low-fi as it is, one almost needs something akin to what the iPhone does -- select a focus point with your finger or stylus and give any section of the sensor the potential to be a reference point for focus.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dustbak on September 27, 2009, 03:42:38 am
I don't get the bickering about the extra focussing functionality of Hasselblad. If they really get this working properly, I am truly sceptical about it and will only believe it after having used it for a fairly extensive period of time, it would be awesome.

People asking for something like a 51-point AF for 645, get a very clear answer. Hasselblad cannot make that at this moment in time, for whatever reason. I assume if they could and were able to sell it at a profit, they would.

On the other hand, if I can have 1 focus point, focus recompose and get tack sharp focus where I want it? Personally I would favor that over having multiple focuspoints in most cases! Sure, it would not be useful in every application but what is?

Again. I am very sceptical about whether it will work. To me it seems so much precision needs to be excercised in such a short time lapse, to me it seems virtually impossible to get this functioning correctly everytime under all circumstances.

As someone else said, you are not being forced to buy one.

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: photo570 on September 27, 2009, 03:52:35 am
Three would do.  ;-)


Quote from: Dustbak
People asking for something like a 51-point AF for 645, get a very clear answer. Hasselblad cannot make that at this moment in time, for whatever reason. I assume if they could and were able to sell it at a profit, they would.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dustbak on September 27, 2009, 04:00:11 am
In that case I would prefer the current new solution. I am pretty sure that I would still recompose with 3 focus points.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: georgl on September 27, 2009, 04:21:20 am
Sounds like an ingenious solution - when it works as promised.

But at some point, isn't it simpler just to use manual focus? Why do we have those big, bright viewfinders? We talk about quite slow, very careful composition - not sports-photography...

@ pcunite
The MFDB-systems that incorporate larger sensors with more megapixels (except for the 4 year old 39MP-generation) are more expensive than the S2. When Leica finally publishes the first real images from this system, you will realize that IQ is simply a non-issue.
Rolex has a strong image, but it's also pristine quality-wise, one of the few companies worldwide that don't rely on cheap supplier-solutions. But many people (also Rolex-buyers) don't know that and just decide for the brand name. Oddly, that's exactly what scares people with more knowledge choosing a Rolex, they're afraid to be mixed-up with "brand-victims". It's a pretty similar siutation for Leica.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: sperera on September 27, 2009, 05:44:29 am
.......I am fascinated by Hasselblad's marketing......going on about the great new focusing system and how much better it is than multi-point focusing.......

...more fascinating even are comments in forums defending a single centre point focusing system claiming users are not sports shooters etc so why need multi-point.......two words....FASHION PHOTOGRAPHER.....how many of you out there shooting fashion are using Nikons and Canons over your H3D-39's now BECAUSE of the autofocusing systems in them amongst other things.........would be interesting to know.....

anyway, this all makes me think CEO Poulson thinks we're too reverential of the brand not to see the reality of the fact they'd love to have multi-point but they can't/won't bring it into their system.....

WILL BE GREAT TO READ THE MARKETING WHEN THEY DO BRING IN MULTI-POINT FOCUSING.....Hasselblad is a strange creature isn't it....they claim to be so advnced but the one thing people hate most about the system is the one thing they dont solve!
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Nick-T on September 27, 2009, 09:26:02 am
Quote from: Dustbak
I don't get the bickering about the extra focussing functionality of Hasselblad. If they really get this working properly, I am truly sceptical about it and will only believe it after having used it for a fairly extensive period of time, it would be awesome.

i used the system briefly yesterday and can say that it works as advertised. IMO when shooting focus/recompose which I do a fair bit this is a great feature.

Oh and keep an eye on the Hasselblad site, I don't believe we've heard all the H4D features as yet

Nick-T
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: RobertJ on September 27, 2009, 09:26:46 am
Sounds good to me.  However, it's an AF solution for hand-held only.  On a tripod, I'd probably MANUAL focus, but the H series cameras have a MAJOR flaw:

If the camera is on a tripod, turned in a vertical orientation, there is no waist-level angle viewfinder that can be rotated 360 degrees for the camera (same with Contax 645).  I'm talking about a simple angle finder that Canon, Nikon, and Mamiya have.

Here's the one for Mamiya, which attaches to the non-removeable viewfinder on the 645AFD bodies: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1831..._FA401_for.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/183116-REG/Mamiya_211_731_Angle_Finder_FA401_for.html)

Seems like a very simple and extremely necessary accessory to have, especially since the H bodies have removeable viewfinders.

Just a suggestion.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2009, 10:01:59 am
Quote from: T-1000
Sounds good to me.  However, it's an AF solution for hand-held only.  On a tripod, I'd probably MANUAL focus, but the H series cameras have a MAJOR flaw:

If the camera is on a tripod, turned in a vertical orientation, there is no waist-level angle viewfinder that can be rotated 360 degrees for the camera (same with Contax 645).  I'm talking about a simple angle finder that Canon, Nikon, and Mamiya have.

Here's the one for Mamiya, which attaches to the non-removeable viewfinder on the 645AFD bodies: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1831..._FA401_for.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/183116-REG/Mamiya_211_731_Angle_Finder_FA401_for.html)

Seems like a very simple and extremely necessary accessory to have, especially since the H bodies have removeable viewfinders.

Just a suggestion.

How about our angle finder then?

http://www.hasselblad.com/products/lenses-...ccessories.aspx (http://www.hasselblad.com/products/lenses-and-accessories/h-system-accessories.aspx)

(Scroll down a bit!)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2009, 10:13:01 am
Quote from: markowich
david,
has the H3DII 60 been cancelled? will there be an upgrade path from the H3DII 50 to the H4DII 60? peter

Any existing orders for the H3DII60 will be honored as H4D's.

Yes there will be an upgrade path from the H3DII50.

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2009, 10:13:52 am
Quote from: paul_jones
Hi David, Just one more question, what are these contacts for? Did Hasselblad consider the vertical grip when they designed the body?

cheers paul

There is lots of latency in the H design.  

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2009, 10:15:29 am
Quote from: lisa_r
Indeed even Canon, with all of their resources, have stated more than once that they are incapable (at the moment) of spreading the AF points any wider than they already are. Same with Nikon. Heaven knows why they can't, but I am sure if they could, they would.
Thanks David for braving the barracuda tank here.
And I agree with j.r., Hasselblad are looking more promising as they go. They are putting real thought into their cameras and software. And given the limited resources and tightening sales in this industry as a whole - I say bravo. (let's not forget their competitors are either a.) out of business or b.) doing jack shit like Mamiya seems to be doing in terms of innovation.)

Thanks Lisa!

Plus also consider extra benefits of motion / position sensing in the camera.

-Aerial / Survey
-Stitching
-'Digital' Scheimpflug correction with the HTS..
-?

This is not to say we are going to add these features but there are many exciting things to explore.

D
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2009, 10:18:07 am
Quote from: photo570
Spacing the sensors out across the frame is the issue, is it not.

If it is not possible to build a larger "unit", why not just use three single point sensors units, which they already have, and actually physically space them apart??? What are we missing? I don't mean to be rude, because that just gets flamed, is this not possible, and why?

The actual single point AF optics (It is an optical system after all) are actually relatively large.  To put three of them in the body would be extremely difficult I am afraid.  We have of course considered this.  I believe there are other issues which an engineer would best explain!

D
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: RobertJ on September 27, 2009, 10:35:36 am
Thanks David, I stand corrected, but if I can't order a simple accessory online from B&H or Calumet (because it's not listed), the product doesn't exist to me.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 27, 2009, 01:11:13 pm
The H4D-60 will not be the ideal camera for everything - e.g. candle-lit hand-held candids?

The discussing about AF seems to be about re-composing after focusing... how well will the AF work with moving subjects... e.g. dancers/gym vaulters in a photo/dance studio? (my wife is a ballet/gym/tap teacher)...

¿I had been thinking of pre-focusing, using a tripod (and a view camera and electronic shutter if control of the plane-of-sharpest focus was required) and triggering the shutter with a shutter-beam?

¿Presumably the AF will be an improvement in "point-and-shoot" mode?

¿Using a view camera on a tripod, the back would be ideal due to the res, with 100 MPx easily achievable with shift-and-stitch on a 6*9 camera like a Sinar P3, using focus-and-shift without moving the lens?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: markowich on September 27, 2009, 02:11:02 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Any existing orders for the H3DII60 will be honored as H4D's.

Yes there will be an upgrade path from the H3DII50.

david,
thanks! so the H3DII 60 was trashed? will the upgrade price from H3DII 50 to H4D 60 be the same as
what was announced for H3DII 50 to H3DII 60?
peter
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on September 27, 2009, 04:33:49 pm
Quote from: sperera
.......I am fascinated by Hasselblad's marketing......going on about the great new focusing system and how much better it is than multi-point focusing.......

...more fascinating even are comments in forums defending a single centre point focusing system claiming users are not sports shooters etc so why need multi-point.......two words....FASHION PHOTOGRAPHER.....how many of you out there shooting fashion are using Nikons and Canons over your H3D-39's now BECAUSE of the autofocusing systems in them amongst other things.........would be interesting to know.....

anyway, this all makes me think CEO Poulson thinks we're too reverential of the brand not to see the reality of the fact they'd love to have multi-point but they can't/won't bring it into their system.....

WILL BE GREAT TO READ THE MARKETING WHEN THEY DO BRING IN MULTI-POINT FOCUSING.....Hasselblad is a strange creature isn't it....they claim to be so advnced but the one thing people hate most about the system is the one thing they dont solve!


I don't know you at all but reading this post it certainly seems to me that you have an agenda against Hasselblad or they hurt your feelings at some point.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: jecxz on September 27, 2009, 05:14:39 pm
Quote from: gdwhalen
I don't know you at all but reading this post it certainly seems to me that you have an agenda against Hasselblad or they hurt your feelings at some point.
You are not the only one to notice.

Seems like there is a lot of anger towards Hasselblad. Credit to David for returning here time and again, when there is an openly venomous vitriol, in what seems to be more and more like a forum for PhaseOne (just consider Doug Peterson 's post to see how threatened he must feel to make the statements he made -- glad David called him out, yes, it was "willy waving" -- really Doug, no need, just look at your user base to know there is satisfaction with your products, don't feel threatened).

It's well known that MR does not like Hasselblad, and that's too bad for both Hasselblad and for MR. An objective reviewer could help a company like Hasselblad, and sadly, this forum/site has become less useful due to the PO alliance and his/the anger. Too bad. Too bad anger is alive and well. Will it ever end?

If you are a Hasselblad user/customer who is similarly disappointed with this site and the anger, visit http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com (http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com) for less drama.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
http://www.jecxz.com (http://www.jecxz.com)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on September 27, 2009, 06:08:12 pm
I'm not disappointed in this site at all.  I am disappointed in some of the people in this site.  Two different things.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: PeterA on September 27, 2009, 07:07:55 pm
Thanks for the post David - looking forward to the details on the Hasselblad site.
Dont worry bout the Phase One 'fan boys' ...

Pete







Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Doug Peterson on September 27, 2009, 08:02:59 pm
Quote from: jecxz
Seems like there is a lot of anger towards Hasselblad. Credit to David for returning here time and again, when there is an openly venomous vitriol, in what seems to be more and more like a forum for PhaseOne (just consider Doug Peterson 's post to see how threatened he must feel to make the statements he made -- glad David called him out, yes, it was "willy waving" -- really Doug, no need, just look at your user base to know there is satisfaction with your products, don't feel threatened).

Good heaves, I think you may have missed the joke.

David and I have a good (though mostly indirect) relationship based on the fact we both have to respond to some pretty ludicrous posts. He's a good man that does a good job of representing Hasselblad which is a good company that makes good products. If you think I think otherwise then you don't read enough of my posts.

(fyi, I closed my post with saying I was willy waving - it was a joke)

Doug Peterson  ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Doug Peterson on September 27, 2009, 08:04:09 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Doug, please. Posting six lines of some new Phocus features does not come under the banner of willy waving?

Also, yes Capture One is a proven platform - no doubt about that.  If you want to get into a conversation about 'Rock Solid' performance, let me know.

;-)

No no, you weren't. I was :-).
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Doug Peterson on September 27, 2009, 08:08:56 pm
Quote from: BlasR
Phocus,don't have all those nice things of C1, but, have customer support is the best (to me)

[...]

Phocus is free.

I pay $500.00 for C1 pro( I don't know the cost now)

I used to have p25 and p45+.  So I'm still using C1

Capture One DB is free and is the equivalent of Phocus (it only works with each maker's digital backs).

Only if you want to use Capture One with dSLR files do you have to pay a dime.

Sounds like you had a bad experience with C1 support. Don't know why; in my (pretty extensive) experience the support staff in the US, Europe, and Asia are extremely knowledgeable and helpful, and both your Phase One dealer and Phase One should be able to provide you excellent support.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on September 27, 2009, 08:10:59 pm
Quote from: dougpetersonci
Good heaves, I think you may have missed the joke.

David and I have a good (though mostly indirect) relationship based on the fact we both have to respond to some pretty ludicrous posts. He's a good man that does a good job of representing Hasselblad which is a good company that makes good products. If you think I think otherwise then you don't read enough of my posts.

(fyi, I closed my post with saying I was willy waving - it was a joke)

Doug Peterson  ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)


You may be joking but it certainly seems very unprofessional to me.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Doug Peterson on September 27, 2009, 08:25:14 pm
Quote from: gdwhalen
You may be joking but it certainly seems very unprofessional to me.

Hopefully one day we'll meet and share a beer.

The written word can come off much differently than it was intended. Any offense taken I apologize for.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BlasR on September 28, 2009, 08:49:29 am
Quote from: dougpetersonci
Hopefully one day we'll meet and share a beer.

The written word can come off much differently than it was intended. Any offense taken I apologize for.


The beer is going to be at the white house?  

Can I go to?

BlasR
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS on September 28, 2009, 10:57:34 am
Quote from: paul_jones
Hi David, Just one more question, what are these contacts for? Did Hasselblad consider the vertical grip when they designed the body?

cheers paul

Hi Paul

The contact on are for the 7.2v and 9.6v batteries. It lets the H body know that a rechargeable battery is attached and in the case of the 7.2v Li-ion the battery status (in %) can be viewed by the user by pressing the Illumination button on the H grip.

Vertical grip... It has been noted. Please understand that we (Hasselblad) recognize the importance and benefits of such a device, we are not always permitted to discuss current or future product development.

I highly recommend that the participants of this forum offer suggestions for feature requests for hardware as well as software. We do make note of it, it is discussed, it is added to a rather extensive list. Many of the existing features and custom options currently available are due to the direct input from photographers.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: James R Russell on September 28, 2009, 01:25:46 pm
Quote from: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS
I highly recommend that the participants of this forum offer suggestions for feature requests for hardware as well as software. We do make note of it,


OK.

Here's a thought.

Suggestion #1.

Make a Hasselblad rangefinder like the Contax G2.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Contax_g...2,8_21mm_jp.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Contax_g2_with_biogon_f2,8_21mm_jp.jpg)

Autofocus, a few lenses, (make them Zeiss) and a Full Frame 35mm chip, better yet, give it some kind of auto crop or auto sensing device so when it is in horitzontal mode it goes to 2:3, Vertical it goes to 4:3.

You know you can do it, you did that DMR thing for Leica and you work with Fuji and others.

This allows you to cover professionals to the dentist/country club set (I'm serious) because Hasselblad and leica are the only two camera names left with real bling.


Suggestion #2

Open up Focus 2 to other brands of cameras for processing.   It just can't be that difficult because even the early C-1 would process Leaf files if you ran some kind of secret script in each file and changed the name from Leaf to dog, or something other than Leaf.  (some guy had that script available for PC'S so you know you can do it.)

This allows a photographer to work in one software suite and while your adpating the software change the name.  Phochus opens up way too many silly comments and why make a name change on your software.

Call it Hasselblad processing.  Stick with the brand man.


Suggestion #3

Make a video camera.  OK, I know Hasselblad is a still camera company, but Bananna Republic use to sell Indian Jones clothes and now they sell suits, so adding to and changing your brand won't hurt a thing.

Once again you work with Fuji so tap into them, I'm sure they got the knowhow and don't make some half way 2/3's inch chip video camera, make it at least full cinema size, maybe bigger and give it autofocus, a PL mount adapter, real input jacks like xlr, real ways to view hdmi out to field monitors and an articulating screen.

Don't think video doesn't carry some weight cause every still photography site I look at has a video.

Make it a complete system and team up with some little company like Red Rock and get all the parts in place.

I mean a complete system, even down to the monitors, rods, matte boxes and cases.

Make it so when somebody open up that big honking Hasselblad case it glows like the briefcase in pulp fiction.

Suggestion #4

Kidnap, (sorry . . .hire)  some Canon or Nikon or Intel guy and build a big processor for all your cameras, maybe two or three in each camera so you can produce great previews and in camera jpegs.

Get modern.  Sell the brand, make it really useable, make is so no photographer has to think of any other camera brand when it comes to making images.

Suggestion #5

You've come a long way and it's somewhat appreciated, but rock the world and do some real innovation.

IMO

JR
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Willow Photography on September 28, 2009, 01:51:49 pm
#1 and #2 and #3 - LCD with previews that is as good as Nikon and Canon.

#4 - a much better ( and faster ) way of editing from 1000 shots down to 20 in Phocus.

#5 - rotating back, so we do not need a vertical grip :-)

#6 - no need to import from 3FR to FFF when using cards

Do this within 6 months and I am an even more happy Hasselblad user than today.
But even now I am using my H3DII-31 more and more over my Canon 5DII

PS

#7 -  a very nice deal for upgrading my H3DII to a H4D :-)

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dustbak on September 28, 2009, 01:55:42 pm
Quote from: Willow Photography
#6 - no need to import from 3FR to FFF when using cards
#7 -  a very nice deal for upgrading my H3DII to a H4D :-)

I am totally in for these 2. Include the CF39 into the upgrade towards a H4D
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS on September 28, 2009, 01:57:39 pm
Peter,

Quote
thanks! so the H3DII 60 was trashed?
The H3DII60 will not be manufactured, instead the H4D60 will ship in its place.

Quote
will the upgrade price from H3DII 50 to H4D 60 be the same as
what was announced for H3DII 50 to H3DII 60?
Yes, the cost will be the same. You have until December 31, 2009 to order the upgrade H3DII50 ---> H4D60.



Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS on September 28, 2009, 02:07:33 pm
Quote from: Dustbak
I am totally in for these 2. Include the CF39 into the upgrade towards a H4D

We do have a trade in program where you can turn in a H or V camera and Hasselblad digital magazine or any MF camera and 3rd party digital back.

Hasselblad Partner locator (http://www.hasselbladusa.com/about-hasselblad/partner-locator.aspx)
Click on the state and you will see who your Hasselblad Regional Sales Manager is, feel free to contact them directly. You can also click on country and be shown the Hasselblad subsidiary and  a list dealers.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS on September 28, 2009, 02:53:06 pm
Quote
#1 and #2 and #3 - LCD with previews that is as good as Nikon and Canon.
There will an improved display on the H4D60, I do not have the exact specifications but David or I will post them when they're available.

Quote
#4 - a much better ( and faster ) way of editing from 1000 shots down to 20 in Phocus.

Can you be more specific. You can rescale thumbnails to the size of your liking and tag them green, yellow or green (IAA), You can hide images, as an example just show your green tags or green and yellow tags, you can remove any individual or all badges on the images (Crop, Name, Approval, Badges), Drag and drop thumbnails in any order in your browser.

Quote
#5 - rotating back, so we do not need a vertical grip :-)
Would you prefer a smaller sensor or a much larger camera? I say this tongue and cheek.

Quote
#6 - no need to import from 3FR to FFF when using cards

Noted.

Quote
#7 -  a very nice deal for upgrading my H3DII to a H4D :-)
Done, check with you area Hasselblad Regional manager or Hasselblad dealer.
we have re-instated a trade in program. This was at the request of dealers and photographers.

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Willow Photography on September 28, 2009, 03:02:41 pm
There will an improved display on the H4D60, I do not have the exact specifications but David or I will post them when they're available.

Will there be a H4D31/39 and will there be improved display on those too?
And on the H4D50?
Is the preview file also improved or only the display?

 
Can you be more specific. You can rescale thumbnails to the size of your liking and tag them green, yellow or green (IAA), You can hide images, as an example just show your green tags or green and yellow tags, you can remove any individual or all badges on the images (Crop, Name, Approval, Badges), Drag and drop thumbnails in any order in your browser.

Is there a shortcut to tag them red, yellow or green?

Would you prefer a smaller sensor or a much larger camera? I say this tongue and cheek.

:-)   Neither
 


Noted.

When? .-)

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: smoody on September 28, 2009, 03:18:14 pm
Quote from: Willow Photography
Will there be a H4D31/39 and will there be improved display on those too?
And on the H4D50?

I, too, would like to know if all of the non-sensor-related specs will be the same between the H4D60 and the H4D50 -- improved display, true focus/apl, etc. Is that the case?

Thanks in advance.


Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Nick-T on September 28, 2009, 04:54:22 pm
Quote from: Willow Photography
Is the preview file also improved or only the display?
If you mean the embedded preview in the file, you know you can choose the size in prefs? I cannot remember the exact size but it's around 1000px on the long dimension. One of the killer features IMO as the preview always matches the art. What I mean is that if you make a few changes to the RAW the preview(s) are updated (as opposed to in camera JPGs). Make your tweaks and you can export hundreds of biggish previews (for say a web gallery) in under a minute.

Quote
Is there a shortcut to tag them red, yellow or green?

Yes just hit 1, 2, or 3. When doing rough edits I first switch to browser only, drag the thumbs to a reasonable size and arrow key through, hitting 1, 2,or 3 as I go. When I've culled it down a bit I'll switch to a viewer only layout and Cmnd Arrow through the selects looking for focus. All this becomes a great deal faster easier with Phocus 2.

Nick-T
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on September 28, 2009, 05:04:53 pm
Maybe reading the manual would be a good thing.  
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Willow Photography on September 28, 2009, 05:30:45 pm
Quote from: Nick-T
If you mean the embedded preview in the file, you know you can choose the size in prefs? I cannot remember the exact size but it's around 1000px on the long dimension. One of the killer features IMO as the preview always matches the art. What I mean is that if you make a few changes to the RAW the preview(s) are updated (as opposed to in camera JPGs). Make you tweaks and you can export hundreds of biggish previews (for say a web gallery) in under a minute.



Yes just hit 1, 2, or 3. When doing rough edits I first switch to browser only, drag the thumbs to a reasonable size and arrow key through, hitting 1,2,or 3 as I go. When I've culled it down a bit I'll switch to a viewer only layout, and Cmnd Arrow through the selects looking for focus. All this becomes a great deal faster easier with Phocus 2.

Nick-T


Thanks Nick for the info.

When I talk about preview, I mean the file showing on the LCD when you shoot untethered.
Is that the same file as the preview in Phocus?

Willow
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Willow Photography on September 28, 2009, 06:33:03 pm
I am so happy for this new AF solution and the new LCD spec.

But I am also a little baffled that the specs on this camera, scheduled to ship
in november, is not ready yet.

It must be a long time since this LCD was designed :-).
At least a couple of months  
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: markowich on September 29, 2009, 09:24:27 am
Quote from: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS
Peter,


The H3DII60 will not be manufactured, instead the H4D60 will ship in its place.


Yes, the cost will be the same. You have until December 31, 2009 to order the upgrade H3DII50 ---> H4D60.

excellent! thanks, peter
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dinarius on September 29, 2009, 12:19:43 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Boris, Please.

No we will not admit that one color profile for all scenes does not work.  Why?  Because is works exactly as it should.  Don't take my word for it, ask a customer.  Also ask institutions like the Tate museum in the UK who use several Hasselblad systems and do not feel the need to custom color profiling.


Best,

D

Boris,

Don't take my word for it either but, as someone who uses his 39Mp back almost entirely in multi-shot/reprodution mode, I can tell you that colour fidelity is astonishing. Much of my work would be akin to what Tate London does.

David and I may have our disagreements on the 80mm lens   (and I know I'm not the only one) but detail and colour are astonishing with the Hasselblad backs and lenses. And with (claimed) effective sharpness equivalent to about 80mp (with the 39mp back in multi-shot mode) in a 220Mb/16bit file, you have all the detail you'll ever need.

Assuming your subject sits very still of course!  

D.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS on September 29, 2009, 01:46:40 pm
James,

Thank you for the insightful input.

"Make it so when somebody open up that big honking Hasselblad case it glows like the briefcase in pulp fiction."  <----  

"You've come a long way and it's somewhat appreciated, but rock the world and do some real innovation."
I do think we as a company have come a long way in a relatively short period of time. This industry has gone enormous changes in the past decades and continues to evolve.

Paul

Quote from: James R Russell
OK.

Here's a thought.

Suggestion #1.

Make a Hasselblad rangefinder like the Contax G2.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Contax_g...2,8_21mm_jp.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Contax_g2_with_biogon_f2,8_21mm_jp.jpg)

Autofocus, a few lenses, (make them Zeiss) and a Full Frame 35mm chip, better yet, give it some kind of auto crop or auto sensing device so when it is in horitzontal mode it goes to 2:3, Vertical it goes to 4:3.

You know you can do it, you did that DMR thing for Leica and you work with Fuji and others.

This allows you to cover professionals to the dentist/country club set (I'm serious) because Hasselblad and leica are the only two camera names left with real bling.


Suggestion #2

Open up Focus 2 to other brands of cameras for processing.   It just can't be that difficult because even the early C-1 would process Leaf files if you ran some kind of secret script in each file and changed the name from Leaf to dog, or something other than Leaf.  (some guy had that script available for PC'S so you know you can do it.)

This allows a photographer to work in one software suite and while your adpating the software change the name.  Phochus opens up way too many silly comments and why make a name change on your software.

Call it Hasselblad processing.  Stick with the brand man.


Suggestion #3

Make a video camera.  OK, I know Hasselblad is a still camera company, but Bananna Republic use to sell Indian Jones clothes and now they sell suits, so adding to and changing your brand won't hurt a thing.

Once again you work with Fuji so tap into them, I'm sure they got the knowhow and don't make some half way 2/3's inch chip video camera, make it at least full cinema size, maybe bigger and give it autofocus, a PL mount adapter, real input jacks like xlr, real ways to view hdmi out to field monitors and an articulating screen.

Don't think video doesn't carry some weight cause every still photography site I look at has a video.

Make it a complete system and team up with some little company like Red Rock and get all the parts in place.

I mean a complete system, even down to the monitors, rods, matte boxes and cases.

Make it so when somebody open up that big honking Hasselblad case it glows like the briefcase in pulp fiction.

Suggestion #4

Kidnap, (sorry . . .hire)  some Canon or Nikon or Intel guy and build a big processor for all your cameras, maybe two or three in each camera so you can produce great previews and in camera jpegs.

Get modern.  Sell the brand, make it really useable, make is so no photographer has to think of any other camera brand when it comes to making images.

Suggestion #5

You've come a long way and it's somewhat appreciated, but rock the world and do some real innovation.

IMO

JR
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS on September 29, 2009, 02:09:32 pm
Willow,

Quote
Will there be a H4D31/39 and will there be improved display on those too?
The 31 and 39 will remain as H3DII31 and H3DII39.

Quote
And on the H4D50?
My understanding is the display (increased resolution) will change on the H4D60 and not on the 50.
I prefer to provide the participants on this or any forum accurate information. If I do not know, uncertain or seek additional information from the factory I will state so.

Quote
Noted.
When? .-)
I acknowledged your request for the vertical grip and have passed it onto product management.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 29, 2009, 02:40:33 pm
Quote from: Dinarius
Boris,

Don't take my word for it either but, as someone who uses his 39Mp back almost entirely in multi-shot/reprodution mode, I can tell you that colour fidelity is astonishing. Much of my work would be akin to what Tate London does.

David and I may have our disagreements on the 80mm lens   (and I know I'm not the only one) but detail and colour are astonishing with the Hasselblad backs and lenses. And with (claimed) effective sharpness equivalent to about 80mp (with the 39mp back in multi-shot mode) in a 220Mb/16bit file, you have all the detail you'll ever need.

Assuming your subject sits very still of course!  

D.
Would it not be less hassle to use an H4D-60 digi-back with Apo-digitars on a view camera, and shift-and-stitch two images together? ... this would give you over 100 good Mpx without having to process a large file?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: CurtisHight on September 29, 2009, 02:53:41 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Plus also consider extra benefits of motion / position sensing in the camera.

-Aerial / Survey
Quote from: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS
I highly recommend that the participants of this forum offer suggestions for feature requests for hardware as well as software.
Please offer a level in the viewfinder, and add directional information to the GPS data. (I want to record which direction the camera is pointed when an image is captured, as well as where it is located.)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: paul_jones on September 29, 2009, 03:03:44 pm
Suggestion #2

Open up Focus 2 to other brands of cameras for processing. It just can't be that difficult because even the early C-1 would process Leaf files if you ran some kind of secret script in each file and changed the name from Leaf to dog, or something other than Leaf. (some guy had that script available for PC'S so you know you can do it.)

This allows a photographer to work in one software suite and while your adpating the software change the name. Phochus opens up way too many silly comments and why make a name change on your software.

Call it Hasselblad processing. Stick with the brand man.


this is really important. i struggle with the complexity of having to run two softwares in one shoot. i have to get assistants that are expert with lc11 and c1 4, and that can be tricky. i miss the days of shooting with a phase back, then picking up the canon ans shooting some, and all the shots go into the same software. it makes life so much easier. one folder, one way of naming, one set of keyboard controls. if hasselblad is scared this may make the canons more appealing, then i  dont think they realise that everyone who owns a hassy, already owns a nikon or canon and shoots with that as well.
i can wait till c 1 4.5 works with leaf. i hope it works well, or i will be selling my aptus and getting phase. im definantely not buying a hasselblad back for that one software reason, plus i really dont really want to learn anymore software- im over learning software.

paul
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: CurtisHight on September 29, 2009, 03:38:12 pm
Quote from: James R Russell
Make a Hasselblad rangefinder like the Contax G2.

Autofocus, a few lenses, (make them Zeiss) and a Full Frame 35mm chip, better yet, give it some kind of auto crop or auto sensing device so when it is in horitzontal mode it goes to 2:3, Vertical it goes to 4:3.
Better yet, give it a square format image sensor and a flash situated directly over the sensor (so it doesn't need to be rotated and the on-camera flash is optimally located for most shots). Similarly, surely the market invites one good pocket camera (something like the Canon G11) built around a square sensor (but offering multiple ratios); and maybe Hasselblad could charge $50 for a copy of Phocus to these users. (Although my preference is for Hasselblad to build onto Aperture or Lightroom, taking advantage of all that one, or both, of these programs offer, and thereby averting the dichotomy of: (a) trying to compete against them and their larger customer and capital bases on features, or (b) leaving Hasselblad users to watch on wistfully.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: CurtisHight on September 29, 2009, 03:51:53 pm
Quote from: Willow Photography
#5 - rotating back, so we do not need a vertical grip :-)
Quote from: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS
Would you prefer a smaller sensor or a much larger camera? I say this tongue and cheek.
I humbly suggest a square format body that will accept and rotate 645 backs (with some type of adapter), and allow for 6x6 image sensors.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BJL on September 29, 2009, 05:02:45 pm
Quote from: CurtisHight
I humbly suggest a square format body that will accept and rotate 645 backs (with some type of adapter), and allow for 6x6 image sensors.
It is fascinating: the medium format sector has been moving away from square 6x6 format towards oblong shapes (mostly 645, a bit of 6x7) since well before the digital transition, the smaller (35mm etc.) and larger (view camera) formats have never bothered with square, the rapid increase of sensor cost with sensor size has greatly accelerated the move away from 6x6 ... and yet in the forums there seems to be a great number of posters who believe that this has all been a horrible stupid mistake, and that the future is (or should be) a return to square formats.

When you find the entire industry and market place going in what you consider to be the wrong direction, you should always ask why the trend is what it is, and be open to an answer that involved the camera makers knowing something that you do not, rather than "collective stupidity" or "a vast conspiracy".

A few possible ingredients, beyond the very substantial increase in sensor cost:
- to avoid rotating by use of a square format of equal maximum side length requires a VF assembly including mirror enlarged to the 56x56mm square size, and so a deeper, heavier, slower moving mirror with even more mirror slap to deal with.
- that requires a lens mount which sits further from the focal plane to accommodate the deeper mirror box, and lenses whose rear elements stay further from the focal plane, so a complete new set of lenses in place of current 645 lens systems.

Paul Claesson of Hasselblad USA was not entirely joking when he said "Would you prefer a smaller sensor or a much larger camera?"
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Willow Photography on September 29, 2009, 05:14:44 pm

 My understanding is the display (increased resolution) will change on the H4D60 and not on the 50.
I prefer to provide the participants on this or any forum accurate information. If I do not know, uncertain or seek additional information from the factory I will state so.


If this is true, and I hope not, it doesnt make any sense at all.
We have wanted a good LCD for years in a MFDB, and when Hasselblad
finally makes it. it will be in only the most expensive one.  

I have always defended Hasselblad when they have been atacked
because of closed systems, premature advertising of new products, "full format" etc.
But this make me both sad and angry!!!

Why not the best LCD for all the Hasselblads???

I was determined to upgrade from H3DII-31 to H4D50, but not anymore.

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: smoody on September 29, 2009, 05:22:41 pm
The release date on the H4D60 has already slipped???

The original press release read November 2009. Now it states January 2010. It's nearly impossible to find the November date anywhere, as all of the sites have been updated to reflect the new date, but there's still plenty of references to it in the google cache ( http://www.google.com/search?q=H4D+novembe...-8&oe=UTF-8 (http://www.google.com/search?q=H4D+november&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) ). I swear I saw a November date on the official press release. Was I wrong?

I'm not in the market for a 60 megapixel camera so I have no right to care, but it seems to me that, given the ever sliding schedule of H3DII60, Hasselblad management would have done their best to get the release date right on the initial press release instead of quietly changing it. Was it a case of one hand not talking to the other? Did the Phase One announcement cause them to want to slip in a few more firmware features before letting it out the door? All just speculation of course. For all I know, it could have been a typo by their PR people.


Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: smoody on September 29, 2009, 05:31:43 pm
Quote from: Willow Photography
Why not the best LCD for all the Hasselblads???

I don't know if we can even be sure that their yaw-based focus lock will make it into the H4D50. I've asked about it a couple of times on the forum and have gotten no answer from Hasselblad reps, which could only mean one of two things: (1) I'm not important enough to deserve a reply and/or (2) The reps aren't sure if there will be feature parity between the two models. I'm hoping the reason is (2)  :-)

I guess there's a third option, which would be that it's a stupid question -- of course there will be feature parity as their the same model. Now that I know they'll have different LCDs, I'm a little less likely to believe that option.

I know the reps have very little information to work with, but I hope we can get some questions answered sooner rather than later.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Boris_Epix on September 29, 2009, 06:13:06 pm
Quote from: BJL
It is fascinating: the medium format sector has been moving away from square 6x6 format towards oblong shapes (mostly 645, a bit of 6x7) since well before the digital transition, the smaller (35mm etc.) and larger (view camera) formats have never bothered with square, the rapid increase of sensor cost with sensor size has greatly accelerated the move away from 6x6 ... and yet in the forums there seems to be a great number of posters who believe that this has all been a horrible stupid mistake, and that the future is (or should be) a return to square formats.

I wouldn't ever ask for a square sensor but I guess the point is people are tired of rotating cameras and waist level finders would work for vertical/square pics (since you wouldn't need to turn the camera). Instead of a square sensor a 6x7 sensor for the RZ67 would be really nice (including the rotating mount).


Quote from: BJL
When you find the entire industry and market place going in what you consider to be the wrong direction, you should always ask why the trend is what it is, and be open to an answer that involved the camera makers knowing something that you do not, rather than "collective stupidity" or "a vast conspiracy".

Ok, now this is not the best argument. Check out the american car manufacturers. Big trucks, gasguzzlers, etc. All almost chapter11.

Usually manufacturers just give customers what they can get away with not what would be best for them. Oh yeah, and make max possible profits.

Quote from: BJL
A few possible ingredients, beyond the very substantial increase in sensor cost:
- to avoid rotating by use of a square format of equal maximum side length requires a VF assembly including mirror enlarged to the 56x56mm square size, and so a deeper, heavier, slower moving mirror with even more mirror slap to deal with.
- that requires a lens mount which sits further from the focal plane to accommodate the deeper mirror box, and lenses whose rear elements stay further from the focal plane, so a complete new set of lenses in place of current 645 lens systems.

I'm not sure that is accurate but I've read sensor yields and prices both improved a lot. And I think to recall that Dalsa assembled a sensor from several subpieces. How much more would a 6x7 sensor cost than a 6x45? A couple thousand USD? People would probably pay a 10k $ premium over the P65+ to get a P100+ (with 25 Megapixel Sensor+ mode).

The questions are probably not prices (Red.com is intending to deliver a DSMC 6x17cm sensor for 53k USD btw) but the requirement for a different body, possibly different electronics and the risk of serving a niche not big enough. Phase has no reason for a 6x6 since they only have 645 and 67 bodies, Hassy's current H bodies only supports 6x45 so a complete nogo too.

But it sure could be done. The Leaf AFI had a 6x6 box. My Mamiya RZ67 Pro2 has less mirror slap than a Hassy H1 and better focussig too.


Quote from: BJL
Paul Claesson of Hasselblad USA was not entirely joking when he said "Would you prefer a smaller sensor or a much larger camera?"

Well... Paul was maybe a bit conservative with his thoughts on this. Why not drop the mirror box altogether? An ARCA Swiss camera is not much of a camera but at the same time plenty of camera. With a HDMI 1080p output (liveview) from the back you wouldn't even need autofocus, mirrorbox, optical viewfinder, mechanical shutter, etc anymore. And the camera would be much smaller, lighter and more reliable.

And let's be honest... less and less fashion and people shooters will get backs when pixel counts are around 50-60 or more Megapixels just because it's too impractical to massage the HUGE files and store them. Everything much larger than 30 Megapixels needs a crazy ass computer and computing times go up like crazy. Seems like architecture, landscape, product, etc shooters will be the remaining MFDB user base at some point. All served very well with live-view when using tilt-shift.



Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on September 29, 2009, 06:49:31 pm
Why does it seem to me that, in a lot of cases, customers are smarter than manufacturers?  There is a message there.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BJL on September 29, 2009, 09:48:14 pm
Quote from: Boris_Epix
I wouldn't ever ask for a square sensor but I guess the point is people are tired of rotating cameras and waist level finders would work for vertical/square pics (since you wouldn't need to turn the camera). Instead of a square sensor a 6x7 sensor for the RZ67 would be really nice (including the rotating mount).
Rotating mount still needs a mirror big enough to cover the vertical and horizontal back positions, so square (7x7) in that case, and all the same depth needs.


Quote
Usually manufacturers just give customers what they can get away with not what would be best for them. Oh yeah, and make max possible profits.
Indeed: making the square format cameras that some ask for is probably not done because it has little prospect of being profitable ... ask F&H, Rollei, Leaf, Sinar and Jenoptik. Camera makers are not charities serving poor suffering MF photographers, so addressing the profit motive is unavoidable.

Quote
I'm not sure that is accurate but I've read sensor yields and prices both improved a lot.
I hear that in forums; I have not seen any evidence of substantial price reductions on large sensors though, so for now I put it down to wishful thinking.
Quote
And I think to recall that Dalsa assembled a sensor from several subpieces.
No: that is another forum myth. Dalsa use stitching, etching different parts of the sensor successively because the fab. equipment cannot make a device that big all at once. The same for all chips over about 33x26mm, which is part of their persistently high cost.

Quote
But it sure could be done. The Leaf AFI had a 6x6 box.
Of course it can be done: the dominant question is cost, and whether enough customers would pay enough. Not enough bought the Afi/Hy6.

Quote
Well... Paul was maybe a bit conservative with his thoughts on this. Why not drop the mirror box altogether?
Maybe: RED is talking of doing that. But apart from from needing a change away from FF CCD sensors, for Hasselbald or Mamiya/Phase One it would still require a completely new lens system (to offer AF), and I seriously doubt that any MF maker is up to that in pursuit of a tiny market.

Quote
And let's be honest... less and less fashion and people shooters will get backs when pixel counts are around 50-60 or more Megapixels just because it's too impractical to massage the HUGE files and store them. ...
Yes: likewise, formats larger than 645 are less and less needed as sensors improve: historically technological progress usually drives format size choices down rather than up. (Getting sensor sizes up to match existing 35mm and 645 AF lens systems is the main recent exception.)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Barry Goyette on September 29, 2009, 10:19:37 pm
Quote from: smoody
I don't know if we can even be sure that their yaw-based focus lock will make it into the H4D50. I've asked about it a couple of times on the forum and have gotten no answer

I spoke with my rep about the upgrade path and the information he gave me indicates the yaw sensors are in the body, not the back...thus it seems to follow that the focus lock will be in the 50, that in addition to Poulsen's comments about this being the biggest advancement at hasselblad in centuries (or something like that) and that such a big deal needed a new name (H4d)...I think you can count on all the new features being in both the 50 and the 60.


Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS on September 30, 2009, 09:34:40 am
Quote
I don't know if we can even be sure that their yaw-based focus lock will make it into the H4D50
.
Yes, True Focus with APL will be included on the H4D50.

Quote
I've asked about it a couple of times on the forum and have gotten no answer from Hasselblad reps, which could only mean one of two things: (1) I'm not important enough to deserve a reply and/or (2) The reps aren't sure if there will be feature parity between the two models. I'm hoping the reason is (2)  :-)
I may have missed the question as this is not the only forum that i look at or post to and viewing and posting to forums such as LL is in addition to my primary function which is provide support to Hasselblad users, that alone consumes a great deal of time.
#1: It is definitely not this, see above.
#2: The only feature that I am waiting for confirmation is regarding the display on the H4D50.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 30, 2009, 10:56:09 am
Quote from: CurtisHight
Please offer a level in the viewfinder, and add directional information to the GPS data. (I want to record which direction the camera is pointed when an image is captured, as well as where it is located.)
What would make me buy the GPS attachment is the ability to use it without the camera body - on a view camera... you can buy a (Linhof) view camera adaptor that allows you to connect the camera battery without the body... why not also the GPS?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 30, 2009, 11:09:05 am
Quote from: CurtisHight
a flash situated directly over the sensor (so it doesn't need to be rotated and the on-camera flash is optimally located for most shots).
The optimal position for fill-flash is below the camera, so that you fill the shadows created by the sun, sky or hand-held flash. (especially when shooting people wearing hats).

What is required is a pistol grip below the camera for one-handed operation (horizontal or vertical) with the option of mounting a flash and/or a monopod on the pistol grip.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on September 30, 2009, 12:55:45 pm
Quote from: Dick Roadnight
What would make me buy the GPS attachment is the ability to use it without the camera body - on a view camera... you can buy a (Linhof) view camera adaptor that allows you to connect the camera battery without the body... why not also the GPS?


Why not just buy a stand alone GPS then.  They are cheap.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: ali alriffai on September 30, 2009, 02:45:21 pm
Quote from: Willow Photography
My understanding is the display (increased resolution) will change on the H4D60 and not on the 50.
I prefer to provide the participants on this or any forum accurate information. If I do not know, uncertain or seek additional information from the factory I will state so.


If this is true, and I hope not, it doesnt make any sense at all.
We have wanted a good LCD for years in a MFDB, and when Hasselblad
finally makes it. it will be in only the most expensive one.  

I have always defended Hasselblad when they have been atacked
because of closed systems, premature advertising of new products, "full format" etc.
But this make me both sad and angry!!!

Why not the best LCD for all the Hasselblads???

I was determined to upgrade from H3DII-31 to H4D50, but not anymore.


I 2nd that

Way not the best LCD  

with problems tethering my 50mp with the new MBP 17" disconnecting issue & power issue from the laptop I can't do FW HUB in location without a power generator !


And my best Camera in the world I cannot judge the pictures with this LCD ! it's totally dark outdoor even indoor it has reddish tint color

I only can see histogram & it's not practical

my G10 has better LCD & I'm welling to pay G10 price for only the same LCD in my hassie    

please I'm not asking for more
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 30, 2009, 05:07:11 pm
Is there any indication that anyone is thinking about making a sensor bigger than 645?

I think no one currently makes a MFDSLR big enough ¿do they? so it would need a total camera re-design or upsizing.

... but a 69 digiback would be nice for my Sinar P3 - saving having to stitch!

Now we have live view (or soon anyway) can we send the mirror to history?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: erick.boileau on October 01, 2009, 01:25:38 am
#1 a new H4D (FF)  with  21 or 24 MP  , like the H3DII 22

#2  exposures up to 5 or 6 minutes

#3  very good batteries

#4  50 ISO

#5 a very good screen


for me that's all , I don't need and I don't want 50 or 60 MP
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: O.Ricter on October 01, 2009, 04:14:29 am
Quote from: Willow Photography
My understanding is the display (increased resolution) will change on the H4D60 and not on the 50.
I prefer to provide the participants on this or any forum accurate information. If I do not know, uncertain or seek additional information from the factory I will state so.


If this is true, and I hope not, it doesnt make any sense at all.
We have wanted a good LCD for years in a MFDB, and when Hasselblad
finally makes it. it will be in only the most expensive one.  

I have always defended Hasselblad when they have been atacked
because of closed systems, premature advertising of new products, "full format" etc.
But this make me both sad and angry!!!

Why not the best LCD for all the Hasselblads???

I was determined to upgrade from H3DII-31 to H4D50, but not anymore.


I am sure all H4D-II both 50 and 60 will have new LCD..




Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BJL on October 01, 2009, 12:27:16 pm
Quote from: O.Ricter
I am sure all H4D-II both 50 and 60 will have new LCD..
Maybe not: in names like H4D-50 and H4D-60,
- The "H4D" refers to the body, with new AF system
- The "-50" and "-60" refer to the backs, with different sensors.
- The LCD is on the back, not the body, so it seems quite possible that the 50MP back will be unchanged, and only the new 60MP back will get the new LCD.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BJL on October 01, 2009, 12:40:37 pm
Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Is there any indication that anyone is thinking about making a sensor bigger than 645?
RED is talking of a huge 6x17cm panoramic back. Apart from that, not a peep, certainly not from the usual suspects, Kodak and Dalsa.
Quote
I think no one currently makes a MFDSLR big enough ¿do they? so it would need a total camera re-design or upsizing.
Exactly. The overwhelming trend is that sensors only get upsized in order to get more out of existing, modern, high quality, AF lens systems, so 35mm and 645 are the main upsizing targets, nothing bigger.

Quote
Now we have live view (or soon anyway) can we send the mirror to history?
Maybe, but mirrorless (and so "full time") live view requires far higher frame refresh rates than Full Frame type CCD's can provide, so a change to CMOS or interline CCD would probably be needed. RED (again) is talking of a 645 format motion/still camera with CMOS sensor and no mirror, and at smaller sizes it seems that many companies are interested in "full time live view" systems: not just Panasonic and Olympus but also Samsung, Fuji and Nikon. (Thom Hogan has supported the Fuji and Nikon rumors.)
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dinarius on October 01, 2009, 12:51:54 pm
Shooting almost 100% of the time to a laptop, the screen on the back doesn't bother me - though yes, the screen on my G9 leaves it for dead.

I have only one wish........that I could capture multi-shot files on my 39mp back and open them ( in raw form and with Hassies lens corrections intact) in ACR so as to avail of all that it offers.

Yes, I know I'm dreaming, but I often wonder how many more cameras would they sell if there weren't limitations on the software that can be used with them?

They seem obsessed with this 'mine is bigger than yours' pixel mania, when ease of use (processing software, opening/moving/storing these huge files) is surely what most people want. Also, there seems to be a lot of reliance for takeup on a pool of exisiting users, to judge from the emphasis on upgrade offers.

My Canon is a dream to use. In typical Japanese fashion, they don't invent anything new (yes, I'm exagerrating a bit here.   ). They strip down something someone else has invented, have a good look at it, and then improve on it. Thus, when shooting tethered, even though the cable attaching the camara to the laptop generates miniscule torque, there is a screw-in lug that prevents the cable from being tugged from the camera. As a result, no damage can be done to the cable socket on the camera body. Similarly, the software for shooting tethered works like a dream and has a wonderful interface.

That said, Flexcolor does exactly what it says on the tin for capture - I only wish that ACR was the next stage in my workflow.

D.

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on October 01, 2009, 01:01:13 pm
Wireless tethering is the only way to go.  That would be my dream upgrade.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dick Roadnight on October 01, 2009, 03:54:45 pm
Quote from: BJL
RED is talking of a huge 6x17cm panoramic back. Apart from that, not a peep, certainly not from the usual suspects, Kodak and Dalsa.
I would like a high-res back compatible with my LF lenses, but you can buy a lot of lenses for the price of a Red 617.

I think no one currently makes a MFDSLR big enough (for sensors larger than 645) ¿do they? so it would need a total camera re-design or upsizing.
Quote
Exactly. The overwhelming trend is that sensors only get upsized in order to get more out of existing, modern, high quality, AF lens systems, so 35mm and 645 are the main upsizing targets, nothing bigger.
There are people who do not insist on AF, and there would be a small market for a 6*9 digiback for cameras like the Sinar P3, and lenses like the Schneider Apo-digitars, many of which cover 69.

¿Send the mirror to history?
Quote
Maybe, but mirrorless (and so "full time") live view requires far higher frame refresh rates than Full Frame type CCD's can provide, so a change to CMOS or interline CCD would probably be needed. RED (again) is talking of a 645 format motion/still camera with CMOS sensor and no mirror, and at smaller sizes it seems that many companies are interested in "full time live view" systems: not just Panasonic and Olympus but also Samsung, Fuji and Nikon. (Thom Hogan has supported the Fuji and Nikon rumors.)
On point-and-shoots there tends to be a delay between pressing the button and the exposure.

Hasselblad has not always been exclusively an SLR company... the SWC, Arcbody and Flexbody are mirror-free, but these cameras used components from the main line SLR cameras.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BJL on October 01, 2009, 09:34:18 pm
Quote from: Dick Roadnight
There are people who do not insist on AF, and there would be a small market for a 6*9 digiback for cameras like the Sinar P3, and lenses like the Schneider Apo-digitars, many of which cover 69.
Agreed that there would be  small market; the trends strongly suggest however that the demand, although it exists, is not enough to support the cost of putting such sensors into production. Sensor models seem to have a high overhead. Coating an existing emulsion onto large sheets of film in small quantities is much easier, and of course less common medium formats like 6x9 use the same roll film as more common ones like 645.


Quote
¿Send the mirror to history?

On point-and-shoots there tends to be a delay between pressing the button and the exposure.
That lag is one of the major challenges for "mirrorless", along with EVF/LCD lag behind reality. But Panasonic in particular has made progress with the G1 etc., and even in the E-P1, there is little lag once it is focused.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS on October 01, 2009, 11:12:16 pm
I received confirmation today that both the H4D50 and H4D60 will have the new display.

Resolution 460,400
3 Inch, 24 bit, TFT display
There is an improvement in contrast and also when viewing the display at increased angles.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: vandevanterSH on October 01, 2009, 11:38:39 pm
the SWC, Arcbody and Flexbody are mirror-free
*******
The Hasselblad "space cameras" prior to 1975 were mirror-free, "point and shoot", also.

Steve
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dick Roadnight on October 02, 2009, 04:37:00 am
Quote from: vandevanterSH
the SWC, Arcbody and Flexbody are mirror-free
*******
The Hasselblad "space cameras" prior to 1975 were mirror-free, "point and shoot", also.

Steve
When Hasselblads were really versatile they came with wire-frame view finders  ¿You remember that?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: gdwhalen on October 02, 2009, 07:14:18 am
Quote from: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS
I received confirmation today that both the H4D50 and H4D60 will have the new display.

Resolution 460,400
3 Inch, 24 bit, TFT display
There is an improvement in contrast and also when viewing the display at increased angles.


That is GREAT.  Thank you Paul!!!
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Willow Photography on October 02, 2009, 09:08:02 am
Quote from: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS
I received confirmation today that both the H4D50 and H4D60 will have the new display.

Resolution 460,400
3 Inch, 24 bit, TFT display
There is an improvement in contrast and also when viewing the display at increased angles.


Superb!!!!

Next question is what kind of file is displayed on this LCD.

It used to be a linear file whith no adjustments ( contrast, sharpening etc )

Will it change to a better file this time?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: CurtisHight on October 02, 2009, 05:05:44 pm
Quote from: BJL
A few possible ingredients, beyond the very substantial increase in sensor cost:
- ...and so a deeper, heavier, slower moving mirror with even more mirror slap to deal with.
- ...so a complete new set of lenses in place of current 645 lens systems.
My comments were inclusive of these realities. (And any 66 lenses brought to market could be used to extend the choices available for smaller formats.)

In 2002 Hasselblad introduced the H1 and with it moved their focus from 66/645 systems to 645/smaller systems. This focus seems to have been a good match with the state of the image sensor market, but I wonder what the 2010s and beyond will bring. I project that the technical dynamics will grow in resemblance to those we had previously in the film only environment, and in this environment I think that 66 cameras have a great strength. 35mm image sensors, and the cameras built around them, are very good, so good that, for me, the 645 cameras currently shipping or announced, aren't enough.


Quote from: Boris_Epix
I wouldn't ever ask for a square sensor but I guess the point is people are tired of rotating cameras and waist level finders would work for vertical/square pics (since you wouldn't need to turn the camera). Instead of a square sensor a 6x7 sensor for the RZ67 would be really nice (including the rotating mount).

...Seems like architecture, landscape, product, etc shooters will be the remaining MFDB user base at some point. All served very well with live-view when using tilt-shift.
I understand 6x7 shooters wishing for a 6x7 image sensor. I reason against this because I think it pushes technical considerations out of balance. For example, unless it's designed as a 7x7 camera it won't gain the ability to shoot vertical without rotating the camera, and if it is designed as a 7x7 SLR camera it will be extra large, heavy, and slow--possibly too large, heavy, and slow. I think that a 66 camera is a better technical balance; filling notable shortfalls of 35mm SLR design trade-offs, without creating too many of its own. I suppose that a 6x7 solution would be delightful for tilt-shift work, and architecture, landscape, product etc. categories, but insufficiently strong to outweigh smaller format strengths (at this point in time and at least for the nearer future), and hence would only extend this trend instead of reversing it; but I hope you receive your wish.


Quote from: BJL
Indeed: making the square format cameras that some ask for is probably not done because it has little prospect of being profitable ... ask F&H, Rollei, Leaf, Sinar and Jenoptik. Camera makers are not charities serving poor suffering MF photographers, so addressing the profit motive is unavoidable.
I don't think this is a strong point; none of these companies were offering an "effective" or a "competitive in the broad market" square format digital solution. Note that with the H series Hasselblad moved away from their earlier flagship design of a focal plane shutter camera that also accepted leaf shutter lenses, to a leaf shutter lens only camera, but Mamiya/Phase and Leica are using this design; product or technology successes or failures follow complex factors. As for "profit motives", this is inclusive to my point; insufficient product differentiation and unique strengths are the foundation of the trend away from square and medium formats and the resulting decrease in profits for some companies, and I hope for a reversal of this trend.


Quote from: BJL
Yes: likewise, formats larger than 645 are less and less needed as sensors improve: historically technological progress usually drives format size choices down rather than up. (Getting sensor sizes up to match existing 35mm and 645 AF lens systems is the main recent exception.)
I think the image sensor market is too young to place so much weight on this trend, and there are advantages to larger sensors beyond a potential increase in the number of pixels. More pixels are often welcome, "more effective pixels" are guardedly always welcome, but a better camera is my salient theme and hope; I'm asking for a highly capable camera to shoot square and vertical rectangle format images, without lens factors or the need to be rotated; and a 66 SLR camera seems to be the most effective path, the best fit, within my view of the current and near future, technical considerations and market conditions. Other, or less capable, and smaller format cameras, which offer square format and vertical rectangle optimization, would also be welcome.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: BJL on October 02, 2009, 08:15:12 pm
Quote from: CurtisHight
In 2002 Hasselblad introduced the H1 and with it moved their focus from 66/645 systems to 645/smaller systems. This focus seems to have been a good match with the state of the image sensor market ...
Hasselblad's shift to 645 for its AF system predated digital: it was following a move away from square towards oblong shapes, 645 in particular, that started before the digital era. Released 2002, started some years before.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: smoody on October 02, 2009, 08:58:39 pm
Quote from: Paul_Claesson_HasselbladUS
I received confirmation today that both the H4D50 and H4D60 will have the new display.

Resolution 460,400
3 Inch, 24 bit, TFT display
There is an improvement in contrast and also when viewing the display at increased angles.

Excellent. Thank you for the news.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: derekhsu on October 05, 2009, 01:58:52 am
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
We do not plan to exclude Live Video from anything.

Hi David Grover,

Live View is available since Flexcolor & Phocus!  
What is the difference for the one on Phocus 2.0?

Regards
Derek
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 05, 2009, 03:49:52 am
Quote from: derekhsu
Hi David Grover,

Live View is available since Flexcolor & Phocus!  
What is the difference for the one on Phocus 2.0?

Regards
Derek

The Live Video quality on Phocus is a little better than FlexColor.  The main difference now of course is that you can focus the H camera directly from the software.  Very hand for micro adjustments and if the camera is inaccessible.

David

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Dick Roadnight on October 05, 2009, 05:17:43 am
Quote from: CurtisHight
I understand 6x7 shooters wishing for a 6x7 image sensor. I reason against this because I think it pushes technical considerations out of balance. For example, unless it's designed as a 7x7 camera it won't gain the ability to shoot vertical without rotating the camera, and if it is designed as a 7x7 SLR camera it will be extra large, heavy, and slow--possibly too large, heavy, and slow.
So, again, I say the future for sensors bigger that 66 is in mirror-free view cameras, for architecture, landscape, groups of people...

who needs more than 100 Mpx in a hand-held camera?  ...but you can, of course use a mirror-free camera hand-help,
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Hywel on October 05, 2009, 05:52:53 pm
Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Suffice to say that more than 50% of business so far this year has been to customers who had previously not bought any Medium Format digital gear.  So I take solace in that we are delivering something to those guys which offers something additional to 35mm.

Me among them. I bought an H3DII-31 instead of updating my 5D to another Canon.

There are plenty of features which have been standard on the Canons since way back when I bought the first dSLR, a venerable D30, which are not present on the Hasselblad. But there are plenty of features on the Hasselblad which aren't on the Canons- most notably the leaf shutters in the lenses with sync with studio flash to 1/800th of a second.

As it turns out, that's much more important to me than the multiple AF points were on the Canon. Sure, it would be great to have all the options in the world on whichever camera system you favour, but I'm really enjoying shooting with the Hasselblad and have absolutely no regrets about making the change. Besides which if I ever do want to shoot a Grand Prix race, I've still got a sack full of Canons to use instead. Horses for courses.

I've hardly shot anything on the Canons since getting the Hasselblad. It just does the job I want to do much better and with much more lusterous and rich results. My main gripe would have to be the LCD screen on the camera back, which is atrocious.

  Cheers, Hywel.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Boris_Epix on October 05, 2009, 06:19:59 pm
Quote from: Hywel
Me among them. I bought an H3DII-31 instead of updating my 5D to another Canon.

There are plenty of features which have been standard on the Canons since way back when I bought the first dSLR, a venerable D30, which are not present on the Hasselblad. But there are plenty of features on the Hasselblad which aren't on the Canons- most notably the leaf shutters in the lenses with sync with studio flash to 1/800th of a second.

As it turns out, that's much more important to me than the multiple AF points were on the Canon. Sure, it would be great to have all the options in the world on whichever camera system you favour, but I'm really enjoying shooting with the Hasselblad and have absolutely no regrets about making the change. Besides which if I ever do want to shoot a Grand Prix race, I've still got a sack full of Canons to use instead. Horses for courses.

  Cheers, Hywel.


Ok, so what can't you achieve with 1/250 sec x-sync time that you can with 1/800? Before you start mumbling wide-open fill-flash outdoors I'll have 3 words for you: Neutral Density Filter. But you've been talking about STUDIO FLASH and not portable flash and there it really doesn't matter because the flash duration is usually way faster than 1/1000 and will freeze more than a 1/800 x-sync can.

But if you think that 1/800 sec sync time is something that sets a Hasselblad appart from DSLR's I can tell you that I gave a workshop and one of the participants had a small Nikon. Don't remember the exact model... D70 or D200. Point is it would sync even shorter than 1/1000. (Electronic shutter).

Outside of controlled conditions I feel like it's harder to get the shot the way you want it with MFDB because of all the limitations (shutter speeds, mirror slap, no good high ISO. I got quite some money out of shots with Canons at 1/10 sec and a few even lower, with the RZ67  1/8s doesn't scare me away but the H bodes below 1/60 usually had quite some blur from mirror slap...

People managed to shoot back in the days with 1/60 sec x-sync. Sure 1/800 is nicer than 1/250 but 1/1600 is even more nice.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 06, 2009, 02:09:42 am
Quote from: Hywel
Me among them. I bought an H3DII-31 instead of updating my 5D to another Canon.

There are plenty of features which have been standard on the Canons since way back when I bought the first dSLR, a venerable D30, which are not present on the Hasselblad. But there are plenty of features on the Hasselblad which aren't on the Canons- most notably the leaf shutters in the lenses with sync with studio flash to 1/800th of a second.

As it turns out, that's much more important to me than the multiple AF points were on the Canon. Sure, it would be great to have all the options in the world on whichever camera system you favour, but I'm really enjoying shooting with the Hasselblad and have absolutely no regrets about making the change. Besides which if I ever do want to shoot a Grand Prix race, I've still got a sack full of Canons to use instead. Horses for courses.

I've hardly shot anything on the Canons since getting the Hasselblad. It just does the job I want to do much better and with much more lusterous and rich results. My main gripe would have to be the LCD screen on the camera back, which is atrocious.

  Cheers, Hywel.

Thanks Hywel for your feedback.

David

Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Hywel on October 06, 2009, 04:30:01 am
Quote from: Boris_Epix
Ok, so what can't you achieve with 1/250 sec x-sync time that you can with 1/800? Before you start mumbling wide-open fill-flash outdoors I'll have 3 words for you: Neutral Density Filter. But you've been talking about STUDIO FLASH and not portable flash and there it really doesn't matter because the flash duration is usually way faster than 1/1000 and will freeze more than a 1/800 x-sync can.

But if you think that 1/800 sec sync time is something that sets a Hasselblad appart from DSLR's I can tell you that I gave a workshop and one of the participants had a small Nikon. Don't remember the exact model... D70 or D200. Point is it would sync even shorter than 1/1000. (Electronic shutter).

Outside of controlled conditions I feel like it's harder to get the shot the way you want it with MFDB because of all the limitations (shutter speeds, mirror slap, no good high ISO. I got quite some money out of shots with Canons at 1/10 sec and a few even lower, with the RZ67  1/8s doesn't scare me away but the H bodes below 1/60 usually had quite some blur from mirror slap...

People managed to shoot back in the days with 1/60 sec x-sync. Sure 1/800 is nicer than 1/250 but 1/1600 is even more nice.

The high sync speeds you quote are only available with the dedicated flash guns, which is very much less than ideal. I'm not even sure if the same high speeds are available with the flashes remote triggering off camera. To be honest, they were such a pig to set up that we usually fell back to 1/125th for everything- and 1/125th was definitely the shortest shutter speed one could reliably use with the Canons and studio flash. They may claim 1/250th, but we found in practice that you ran an unacceptable risk of a hint of second shutter curtain shadow creeping in even at 1/160th.

I use Hensel Porty flash systems. I'm sorry if that was unclear. I think of it as a studio flash system, just battery powered, as opposed to an on-camera flash system. The important difference for my work is the ability to use light formers and to place the lights wherever I want, with no tethering to the camera. We tried using several slaved Canon flashes but it was always an awful flog to set up, hard to use light formers, and the flashes were VERY prone not to trigger correctly.

Using the Porty is like taking studio lighting on location, which just happens to be exactly what I want. I want two strip softboxes or honeycomb grids or beauty dishes on flash heads putting out a decent power, and the ability to balance that precisely with the sunlight coming in behind as a hairlight... or to underexpose the sky by three or four stops to render a sunset nicely in the background for a dramatic photo.

Your mileage my vary, but for me the combination of Hasselblad plus Porty has been the difference between crawling along and flying when lighting on location. The shots below would have been the devil's own job to set up with the Canon system but were a pleasure to do on the Hasselblad/Porty. I agree that one needs controlled lighting conditions for the Hasselblad to shine- but it has the capabilities to support controlled lighting on location to a much better extent than the Canons.

As you may notice from the EXIF, these were actually shot at /250th or 1/500th... but the key point was that we had the freedom to experiment. The water hair flick shot looked better at 1/250th than 1/800th so we used that one. It gives us the ability to choose the aperture for artistic effect (by setting the intensity of flash on the subject) and then choose the shutter speed to achieve some other artistic effect with the light on the background. The Canons in practice glued us to 1/125th, always.

Mirror slap is no problem on the Hasselblad for me. The custom setting for delay between mirror flip and shutter (which is not something the Canons provide). Setting that to 50 ms or gave razor sharp shots with no camera shake hand held to 1/60th with no problem, and a fighting chance of getting good shots at 1/30th or even 1/15th, which is more than acceptable for my purposes as because that slow one tends to get model movement creeping in a bit anyway. As before, YMMV, but for me, the Hasselblad supports my shooting style far better than the Canons did.

Cheers, Hywel Phillips
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Boris_Epix on October 06, 2009, 09:48:02 am
Quote from: Hywel
The high sync speeds you quote are only available with the dedicated flash guns, which is very much less than ideal. I'm not even sure if the same high speeds are available with the flashes remote triggering off camera. To be honest, they were such a pig to set up that we usually fell back to 1/125th for everything- and 1/125th was definitely the shortest shutter speed one could reliably use with the Canons and studio flash. They may claim 1/250th, but we found in practice that you ran an unacceptable risk of a hint of second shutter curtain shadow creeping in even at 1/160th.
No, I was not talking about Nikon flash guns. I was talking about Profoto and Elinchrom packs. I was surprised as you are when I tried to teach participants that you can't sync flash above x-sync time and told them to set 1/500 so they could see the shutter blade(s). Only one guy had no shutter blades in the frame so I thought at first he dialed in wrong settings. Turns out the D70 officially syncs up to 1/500 with it's combined electronic/mechanical shutter. Check out the the shutter section (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD70/page2.asp). So we went higher and as far as I recall it went up to 1/1250 s before parts of the image were not exposed correctly.

Quote from: Hywel
As you may notice from the EXIF, these were actually shot at /250th or 1/500th... but the key point was that we had the freedom to experiment. The water hair flick shot looked better at 1/250th than 1/800th so we used that one. It gives us the ability to choose the aperture for artistic effect (by setting the intensity of flash on the subject) and then choose the shutter speed to achieve some other artistic effect with the light on the background. The Canons in practice glued us to 1/125th, always.

I'm shooting the Canon 1Ds Mk3 at 1/250 x-sync outdoor all the time. No problem. Ambient light fills in and there's no darkening observable. In the studio I shoot it at 1/200. There you can have a bit of a darker edge. It seems you're talking about a 5D or lower end model but even the 5D syncs very well at 1/160 with no dark edge whatsoever or 1/200 outdoor. D3X is the same thing as the 1Ds... you can sync at 1/250 but on a plain white background the lower edge can be slightly darker (triggering with Pocketwizards). Not sure if a sync-cable setup would be better.

The three pictures you showed here all could have easily been shot with a Canon/Nikon/Sony/Pentax/Olympus/whatever. Some of the shots would have benefitted from more DOF, tighter cropping and some detail in the darker tones instead of the sudden black. The water shot is actually blurrier than anything I've seen from a DSLR and that kind of shot is probably been done million times before. I thought the point was to freeze the splashing water and hair (and face). Anyway, I'm not too fond of that I guess.

Quote from: Hywel
Mirror slap is no problem on the Hasselblad for me. The custom setting for delay between mirror flip and shutter (which is not something the Canons provide). Setting that to 50 ms or gave razor sharp shots with no camera shake hand held to 1/60th with no problem, and a fighting chance of getting good shots at 1/30th or even 1/15th, which is more than acceptable for my purposes as because that slow one tends to get model movement creeping in a bit anyway. As before, YMMV, but for me, the Hasselblad supports my shooting style far better than the Canons did.

Cheers, Hywel Phillips
Sure, mirror slap is no problem for you if you can keep your shutter speed above 1/60, use a heavy tripod or you're shooting with portable studio flashes with 1200 Ws. But how would you shoot in a castle where neither flash nor tripods are permitted? Where ISO 800 still only gives you 1/10 sec? The Hassy gives you about 4 stops of usable shutter speeds. Not very flexible IMHO. The Mamiya 645 DF with it's twin shutter setup will be more flexible. With video becoming more mainstream in DSLRs possibly at some point mechanical shutters will not be the limiting factor for faster x-sync there.

It's good to see you're happy with your camera, but 1/800 x-sync did nothing for your three pics here. So it's a bit confusing that it's the only feature you named. I'm all game for arguments like 16bit color depth, CCD-vs-CMOS, no AA-filter, better color fidelity, etc. And in fact I really like the color of the turquoise pool and the yellow cord.

But anyway, the most important thing is that you like your equipment and feel comfortable with it taking the shots you want.
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: Hywel on October 06, 2009, 03:07:51 pm
Quote from: Boris_Epix
No, I was not talking about Nikon flash guns. I was talking about Profoto and Elinchrom packs. I was surprised as you are when I tried to teach participants that you can't sync flash above x-sync time and told them to set 1/500 so they could see the shutter blade(s). Only one guy had no shutter blades in the frame so I thought at first he dialed in wrong settings. Turns out the D70 officially syncs up to 1/500 with it's combined electronic/mechanical shutter. Check out the the shutter section (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD70/page2.asp). So we went higher and as far as I recall it went up to 1/1250 s before parts of the image were not exposed correctly.

Wow, that is actually something they've kept rather quiet about. I hadn't realised that feature of the D70. I don't know that it would have tempted me to cross-grade to Nikon, but I'd certainly have given it much more thought.


Quote
I'm shooting the Canon 1Ds Mk3 at 1/250 x-sync outdoor all the time. No problem. Ambient light fills in and there's no darkening observable. In the studio I shoot it at 1/200. There you can have a bit of a darker edge. It seems you're talking about a 5D or lower end model but even the 5D syncs very well at 1/160 with no dark edge whatsoever or 1/200 outdoor. D3X is the same thing as the 1Ds... you can sync at 1/250 but on a plain white background the lower edge can be slightly darker (triggering with Pocketwizards). Not sure if a sync-cable setup would be better.

Yes, we have been using 5D and 5D mark 2's. In a studio on a white background the dark edges can start creeping in even at 1/160th- possibly an artefact of the way we are triggering (radio). Maybe sync would be better but ugh, not going back to triggering with wires if I can help it  

Maybe the 1Ds are more reliable, but since the 5D's quoted sync speed was so far out from we found using them with our lighting, it didn't really occur to me that the 1Ds might actually do what the 5D was claimed to do according to spec. The Hasselblad just does do what it is supposed to in this case. Of course, the primary reason for the move was aesthetic, rather than technical, but it is nice when the technical stuff that is supposed to work actually does :-) which had not really been our experience with the Canons.


Quote
The three pictures you showed here all could have easily been shot with a Canon/Nikon/Sony/Pentax/Olympus/whatever.

I'm sure they could have been shot with other cameras, but I would debate you how *easily* they could have been shot...  Our experience certainly was not as positive of trying to mix studio lighting and natural lighting on location as yours seems to have been. Maybe it is just bad luck on our part or poor equipment choice of D30/D60/10D/40D/5D/5D Mk2- it is true we never shot with 1-series Canons except on odd tutorial days where the issue never cropped up. I considered purchasing one instead of the Hasselblad, but I'm still glad I didn't.

Quote
It's good to see you're happy with your camera, but 1/800 x-sync did nothing for your three pics here. So it's a bit confusing that it's the only feature you named. I'm all game for arguments like 16bit color depth, CCD-vs-CMOS, no AA-filter, better color fidelity, etc. And in fact I really like the color of the turquoise pool and the yellow cord.

But anyway, the most important thing is that you like your equipment and feel comfortable with it taking the shots you want.

Well, indeed. I rather took the image quality arguments rather for granted, sorry... :-) And sync at 1/250th or 1/500th DID do something for the images I uploaded- these shots could not, in fact, have been taken with OUR Canon equipment and OUR Hensel Porty lighting, nor would we have been able to try faster and slower shutter speeds to see how the images looked and decide which ones we liked the best. (Case in point- the hair flick one just had much more life and feeling of motion at 1/250th than at 1/800th. The point wasn't to freeze the water, it was to create a feeling of fun and fluidity). For the crushed blacks- yeh, it is just a weakness of mine. Too much a fan of film noir, I think

  Cheers, Hywel Phillips
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: stevenf on October 06, 2009, 08:16:00 pm
Hi Paul

I am considering purchasing the Hasselblad H3d-50 II - I noticed that Hasselblad is offering a free upgrade to the H4D-50. Does this mean a new camera and a new 50 MP Back with the new LCD? Or would one get a new camera and keep the old back from the H3dII-50 and not get the new LCD?

Reading on the Hasselblad website it seems to indicate a free upgrade to the H4d-50 - which to me would mean a new back with the new LCD.

Thanks Steven

www.friedmanphoto.com
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: pcunite on October 06, 2009, 08:28:45 pm
Quote from: stevenf
I am considering purchasing the Hasselblad H3d-50 II

Steven,
Love your eye... what do you feel is lacking in your current system? I assume something in the prints?
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: smoody on October 06, 2009, 08:42:03 pm
Quote from: stevenf
Hi Paul

I am considering purchasing the Hasselblad H3d-50 II - I noticed that Hasselblad is offering a free upgrade to the H4D-50. Does this mean a new camera and a new 50 MP Back with the new LCD? Or would one get a new camera and keep the old back from the H3dII-50 and not get the new LCD?

Great question...
Title: Hasselblad H4D-60 and H4D-50
Post by: stevenf on October 06, 2009, 08:43:12 pm
Pcunite

I don't really feel there is anything lacking in the prints. I have the Horseman 617 with Schneider lenses for the panoramas and I am very pleased with the results - although I worry about how long Velvia will be around.

It is the non-panorama format that I would like more detail for larger prints - I would like to do 40"x50" prints.

Thanks for your kind comment on my photography.

Steven

www.friedmanphoto.com