Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: dng88 on September 06, 2009, 10:11:19 am
-
Understand there is only rumors but the making of it down to a PDF full of details seemed a bit good thing to talk about even if it is rumor. I do not think S2 has stirred any heat like this. I know one is burn one is burn but it is something one passion about, I guess one should let it out or just mention it? In particular the X1 if true is one of the few attempt to have APSC size on a pocketable camera. (In fact the first as Sigma is Fevon and EP1/G1 etc. is micro 3/4.)
Wonder?
P.S. I learn all things about rangefinder starting from this site (and later via Reid Review, also introduced by this site). It is a turning point for Leica it seems (can be all hill down) and hence as now an owner of M8 ultimately can trace to my reading of this site, I find that very strange this site is so silent about it. May be I miss somthing.
-
Understand there is only rumors but the making of it down to a PDF full of details seemed a bit good thing to talk about even if it is rumor. I do not think S2 has stirred any heat like this. I know one is burn one is burn but it is something one passion about, I guess one should let it out or just mention it? In particular the X1 if true is one of the few attempt to have APSC size on a pocketable camera. (In fact the first as Sigma is Fevon and EP1/G1 etc. is micro 3/4.)
Wonder?
P.S. I learn all things about rangefinder starting from this site (and later via Reid Review, also introduced by this site). It is a turning point for Leica it seems (can be all hill down) and hence as now an owner of M8 ultimately can trace to my reading of this site I find that very strange this site is so silent about it. May be I miss somthing.
Wait till Wednesday!! There will be a lot more excitement here then.
Michael
-
There where some wild discussions here about the M9. All sides had their opinion, all assumptions where made. The tech sheet added some numbers, but, so what. Full Frame is no real surprise, and the actual performance will show in the images. So, no conclusions possible until images and hands on experiences.
-
Like I wrote, wait till later this week.
-
As reported on the TOP site, the sites that are under non disclosure agreements are rightly sticking with them. Sounds like MR has a camera in his hand? But I know, I have to wait til 9/90/9, and will.
-
because on Wednesday the new Beatles remasters come out??
-
because on Wednesday the new Beatles remasters come out??
Nah, apple are ptiching a new portable music player - much more important than the music:)
Mike
-
Like I wrote, wait till later this week.
I meant it as a reply to dng88, without citing his post that was a bit unclear The pace of discussion should pick up somewhat after the announce.
Christian
-
There's a brochure available here: Purported M9 Brochure (http://www.sendspace.com/file/f1i7il). My virus scanning allowed it to download. Says the camera is 18.2 MP, full-frame with no AA filter. Looking forward to Wednesday - this one should be REAL interesting if the document is genuine - and even if it isn't.................. (fun).
-
There's a brochure available here: Purported M9 Brochure (http://www.sendspace.com/file/f1i7il). My virus scanning allowed it to download. Says the camera is 18.2 MP, full-frame with no AA filter. Looking forward to Wednesday - this one should be REAL interesting if the document is genuine - and even if it isn't.................. (fun).
"When you read rumors of something like the M9 on the web and yet the news isn't surfacing on the big sites like Imaging-Resource, The Luminous Landscape, and dpreview.com, you should just be aware than the information you're receiving isn't official and thus isn't fully dependable. So hold on to your skeptic's hat."
Quoted From Mike of http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/t...blog_index.html (http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/blog_index.html)
I wait then.
-
Gheez, really? No kiddin'
-
There is an M9 microsite that was apparently up an running, and is now password protected. It was linked somewhere here too I believe.
-
Madre de Dios, it's only (if at all) another friggin' camera amongst zillions...
At the end of the day, unless it has Da Vinci coding, it won't do a hot darn thing for your ability.
;-)
Rob C
-
"When you read rumors of something like the M9 on the web and yet the news isn't surfacing on the big sites like Imaging-Resource, The Luminous Landscape, and dpreview.com...
Now we have the Leica discussion revived
Well it was on dpreview, came from some leica forum. Obviously the now pw protected site was real, but not because it was on dpreview. You can just tell from the screengrabs I put into another thread here. I spare myself the link I think it can be found.
As a sidenote, the argument you cite is no real argument for me because it depends on third opinion and is not about the facts. That is a very common source of errors and confusions not only in the web but in general. People citing other people with a very very limited number of persons to just have a look at the facts. But, thats already OT. Also - very important - I dont direct this sidenote against you personally, I mean it in a general sense.
-
Madre de Dios, it's only (if at all) another friggin' camera amongst zillions...
At the end of the day, unless it has Da Vinci coding, it won't do a hot darn thing for your ability.
;-)
Rob C
Hey Rob - you're being a killjoy - this is FUN after all!
-
You pays yer money and takes yer choice.
I find Luminous Landscape particularly well endowed with processing expertise. Other boards will have more gearheads and some purport to be all things to all photo buffs. I subscribe to 5 photo boards and skim them for what is of interest to me and what I find that they do best.
That said, if you're looking for M9 speculation, GetDPI and LUF are chock full of it!
-
Why no hype? Well, I'm sure the cameras will be fantastic, the lenses superb, the quality of the images sublime. However, unless you're willing to remortgage the house and kids, these are fantasy items for most people. Ferraris, if you will, of the photo world. As ever, 50% will be bought by collectors in Japan, Europe and the US, who will put them in a glass case, taking them out once in a while to show other collectors, 48% will be bought by independently wealthy businessmen in their 50s or 60s, and the remaining 2% will be bought by professional photographers. Now, where's that dang lottery ticket...
-
Why no hype? Well, I'm sure the cameras will be fantastic, the lenses superb, the quality of the images sublime. However, unless you're willing to remortgage the house and kids, these are fantasy items for most people. Ferraris, if you will, of the photo world. As ever, 50% will be bought by collectors in Japan, Europe and the US, who will put them in a glass case, taking them out once in a while to show other collectors, 48% will be bought by independently wealthy businessmen in their 50s or 60s, and the remaining 2% will be bought by professional photographers. Now, where's that dang lottery ticket...
But it will not have better high ISO than the 5D2 (wich it should have, regarding the price!!!) and therefore it will be declared outlaw by these who eat their carpets in order to faster save money for their next canon So, nothing new at all.
And for the unlikely case you cannot blame iso, well it misses movie mode liveview autofocus is a rangefinder is too small in your hands has odd design is too expensive and has bad whitebalance. Im sure I missed something.
No, seriously, Im getting really curious
-
Hey Rob - you're being a killjoy - this is FUN after all!
Hey, Mark!
I'm glad you spelled that out - it was so subliminal I almost missed it! Guess the killjoy number comes from envy, then...
;-)
Rob C
-
But it will not have better high ISO than the 5D2 (wich it should have, regarding the price!!!) and therefore it will be declared outlaw by these who eat their carpets in order to faster save money for their next canon So, nothing new at all.
And for the unlikely case you cannot blame iso, well it misses movie mode liveview autofocus is a rangefinder is too small in your hands has odd design is too expensive and has bad whitebalance. Im sure I missed something.
No, seriously, Im getting really curious
It's fun to see all the reasons that are already being trotted out for why people won't buy one...
It's digital not film
Leica's are all for dillettante poseurs
Leica's are for dentists
High iso isn't good enough
It costs more than a Pana GF-1
If it arrives then I won't buy one until I can pay for it without credit, which will take long enough to find out if it is flawed like the M8 or works. I hope the latter.
-
Michael is of course checking hundreds of M9 shots for IR problems in the run-up to 9/9/9. :-)
(That's meant with a very big smiley.)
-
I guess we'll have to wait until Wednesday. I'm sure it will priced reasonably.....for anyone that drives a Bentley!! ;-)
Todd in Chicago
Understand there is only rumors but the making of it down to a PDF full of details seemed a bit good thing to talk about even if it is rumor. I do not think S2 has stirred any heat like this. I know one is burn one is burn but it is something one passion about, I guess one should let it out or just mention it? In particular the X1 if true is one of the few attempt to have APSC size on a pocketable camera. (In fact the first as Sigma is Fevon and EP1/G1 etc. is micro 3/4.)
Wonder?
P.S. I learn all things about rangefinder starting from this site (and later via Reid Review, also introduced by this site). It is a turning point for Leica it seems (can be all hill down) and hence as now an owner of M8 ultimately can trace to my reading of this site, I find that very strange this site is so silent about it. May be I miss somthing.
-
The video interview with Peter Karbe will be really, really, really interesting...
(All the stuff will be interesting, of course...).
-
I'm sure it will priced reasonably.....
USD 7000 has been mentioned.
-
USD 7000 has been mentioned.
Yes, $6,995 is mentioned on Amazon's site: http://www.amazon.com/Leica-M9-Digital-Fin...k/dp/B002NX13LC (http://www.amazon.com/Leica-M9-Digital-Finder-Black/dp/B002NX13LC)
And for those in the UK DPReview says "a suggested retail price of £4,850 inc VAT."
P. S. And $1,995 for the X1 at http://www.amazon.com/Leica-X1-Digital-Elm...l/dp/B002NX13QC (http://www.amazon.com/Leica-X1-Digital-Elmarit-Ashperical/dp/B002NX13QC)
-
Yes, $6,995 is mentioned on Amazon's site: http://www.amazon.com/Leica-M9-Digital-Fin...k/dp/B002NX13LC (http://www.amazon.com/Leica-M9-Digital-Finder-Black/dp/B002NX13LC)
And for those in the UK DPReview says "a suggested retail price of £4,850 inc VAT."
P. S. And $1,995 for the X1 at http://www.amazon.com/Leica-X1-Digital-Elm...l/dp/B002NX13QC (http://www.amazon.com/Leica-X1-Digital-Elmarit-Ashperical/dp/B002NX13QC)
The M9 price is high, but I guess that most Leica users were expecting something in that price range. Those who think 18MP in a rangefinder camera has value will probably be willing to invest to tap into their existing lenses.
On the other hand the X1 is not related in any way to the rest of the Leica family, it will have to justify its price tag purely based on its abilities. Although the specs are appealing, I personally find 2000 US$ to be too expensive. The Pansonic appears to be a better deal.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
The M9 price is high, but I guess that most Leica users were expecting something in that price range. Those who think 18MP in a rangefinder camera has value will probably be willing to invest to tap into their existing lenses.
On the other hand the X1 is not related in any way to the rest of the Leica family, it will have to justify its price tag purely based on its abilities. Although the specs are appealing, I personally find 2000 US$ to be too expensive. The Pansonic appears to be a better deal.
Cheers,
Bernard
Couldn't agree more.
-
By the way, does the M9 have a suitable auto ISO capability?
I find this to be one of the most important capabilities of modern cameras to maximize image quality in street shooting situations where light levels can change dramatically from one image to the next.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
By the way, does the M9 have a suitable auto ISO capability?
I find this to be one of the most important capabilities of modern cameras to maximize image quality in street shooting situations where light levels can change dramatically from one image to the next.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bernard
It's the kind of convenience and functionality I wish Canon had built into the 1Ds3, but its absence isn't really a "deal-breaker" for people already invested in a system. I'd put it in the category of a highly desirable option on the check-list for people in the status of chosing between systems.
-
It's the kind of convenience and functionality I wish Canon had built into the 1Ds3, but its absence isn't really a "deal-breaker" for people already invested in a system. I'd put it in the category of a highly desirable option on the check-list for people in the status of chosing between systems.
Auto ISO is clearly a bit less important now than most DSLRs have brilliant image quality up to 3200 ISO.
I was asking the question about the M9, because it does seem to be a bit weak above ISO800. The high levels specs on DPreview don't mention it, but it could be available still. Good autoISO would make the current negative comments on the high ISO image quality of the M9 less relevant.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Auto ISO is clearly a bit less important now than most DSLRs have brilliant image quality up to 3200 ISO.
I was asking the question about the M9, because it does seem to be a bit weak above ISO800. The high levels specs on DPreview don't mention it, but it could be available still. Good autoISO would make the current negative comments on the high ISO image quality of the M9 less relevant.
Cheers,
Bernard
Hi Bernard - not to belabour - but I would think the auto-ISO feature becomes desirable EXACTLY BECAUSE these cameras perform so well at high ISO - it makes it feasible to allow the camera to select a high ISO when low lighting forces you out of sustainable shutter speed and aperture.
I'm looking forward to Michael's review, because I hope (expect) it will illustrate IQ at high ISO - I was kind of disappointed with the selection of gallery images on DPReview - I don't think they showed all that much - to the extent one can judge any of this on a display.
Cheers,
Mark
-
Hi Bernard - not to belabour - but I would think the auto-ISO feature becomes desirable EXACTLY BECAUSE these cameras perform so well at high ISO - it makes it feasible to allow the camera to select a high ISO when low lighting forces you out of sustainable shutter speed and aperture.
I'm looking forward to Michael's review, because I hope (expect) it will illustrate IQ at high ISO - I was kind of disappointed with the selection of gallery images on DPReview - I don't think they showed all that much - to the extent one can judge any of this on a display.
Cheers,
Mark
Well when it comes to the photo galleries DPReview just sucks, sorry but just look at most of their product reviews....
-
I wouldn't go that far at all. I find a lot of Mike Askey's product reviews systematic and helpful for anyone who wants that kind of detailed spec-by-spec articulation of what these cameras do and don't do. He's providing a useful service.
-
Hi Bernard - not to belabour - but I would think the auto-ISO feature becomes desirable EXACTLY BECAUSE these cameras perform so well at high ISO - it makes it feasible to allow the camera to select a high ISO when low lighting forces you out of sustainable shutter speed and aperture.
I see, that is indeed one way to look at it.
Coming from a fixed ISO system, I have been looking at it differently though. I believe that most users who do not have autoISO typically set the ISO on their camera high enough to ensure that they will get enough shutter speed in the average conditions they will encounter at a given moment. I don't think anyone really changes ISO manually that often in street shooting situation, but then again, it might just be my way of working. This impacts negatively all the images where a lower ISO would have been sufficient. In other words, autoISO enbales a camera with avergae to poor high ISO to only show this weakness in these images where there is no other option anyway.
This really depends on how autoISO is used and implemented though. On the body I use, you can set a minimum shutter speed that you want to preserve, and the camera will use the lowest possible ISO making this possible. It will only lower the shutter speed further when the highest authorized ISO is reached. Nikon developped this to limit the negative impact of the then lowesr abilities of the d2x compared to its Canon competitors.
Anyway, 2 ways to look at the same thing. :-)
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Hi,
On my Alpha 900 I have three presets:
1) Fast shooting, wide focus area, auto ISO (100 - 800 ISO?)
2) Deliberate handheld shooting center spot autofocus, ISO 100, aperture f/8
3) Tripod shooting, MF, ISO 100 aperture f/8, 2s self timer with mirror pre release
More presets would be appreciated ;-)
Auto ISO is very advantageous in my humble opinion.
Best regards
Erik
I see, that is indeed one way to look at it.
Coming from a fixed ISO system, I have been looking at it differently though. I believe that most users who do not have autoISO typically set the ISO on their camera high enough to ensure that they will get enough shutter speed in the average conditions they will encounter at a given moment. I don't think anyone really changes ISO manually that often in street shooting situation, but then again, it might just be my way of working. This impacts negatively all the images where a lower ISO would have been sufficient. In other words, autoISO enbales a camera with avergae to poor high ISO to only show this weakness in these images where there is no other option anyway.
This really depends on how autoISO is used and implemented though. On the body I use, you can set a minimum shutter speed that you want to preserve, and the camera will use the lowest possible ISO making this possible. It will only lower the shutter speed further when the highest authorized ISO is reached. Nikon developped this to limit the negative impact of the then lowesr abilities of the d2x compared to its Canon competitors.
Anyway, 2 ways to look at the same thing. :-)
Cheers,
Bernard
-
I see, that is indeed one way to look at it.
Coming from a fixed ISO system, I have been looking at it differently though. I believe that most users who do not have autoISO typically set the ISO on their camera high enough to ensure that they will get enough shutter speed in the average conditions they will encounter at a given moment......................
Anyway, 2 ways to look at the same thing. :-)
Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard, Yes indeed, AT LEAST two ways of looking at it - like so much of this stuff.
My practice is different - I keep the ISO as low as I can consistent with adequate shutter speed at a fixed aperture around the "sweet spot" of the lens - unless I need to change aperture for DOF reasons. So ISO is a variable for me and I do change it around quite frequently depending on the shutter speed I need at the desired aperture. Which brings me back to the topic - the M9 - I don't know how I would relate to this camera in practice. There's already enough stuff to keep track of without having to worry about manual focus, dedicated viewfinders for different lenses - etc.
Cheers,
Mark.
-
Which brings me back to the topic - the M9 - I don't know how I would relate to this camera in practice. There's already enough stuff to keep track of without having to worry about manual focus, dedicated viewfinders for different lenses - etc.
Yes, indeed. It is for sure good to have options like the M9.
Cheers,
Bernard