Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Murph on August 29, 2009, 11:42:11 am
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I have some questions on paper(s) that perhaps the members can illuminate for me. My current favorite papers are: Hahnemuehl Photo Rag 308 gsm, Moab Entrada 300 gsm, Epson Ultra Premium Presentation paper Matte (I use MATTE ink in my 4880.) I also like the Hahnemuehl Bamboo paper. Since I don't generally print glossy, and would really like to use luster/semi-gloss on certain photos, what is the overall opinion of these papers:
1) Epson Ultra Smooth Fine Art paper
2) Epson exhibition fibre paper (I'd like to find this stuff in rolls)
3) Hahnemuehl Baryta
4) Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
I will get these to use on a friend's 7900 since he uses Photo Black inks in his printer, and I'll cover his costs.
Comment?
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2) Epson exhibition fibre paper (I'd like to find this stuff in rolls)
3) Hahnemuehl Baryta
4) Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
These three papers are all excellent and it will really be personal preference as to which you prefer. The Ilford is very warm, the Baryta from Hahnemuhle is very very cool, and the Epson is somewhere in between. Michael has written about them in the past, look for "Battle of the Barytas" and "Epson Exhibition" on his reviews page.
Neil
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Yeah, I just wish the Exhibition Fiber was in rolls though. How do they handle both B&W AND Color?
These three papers are all excellent and it will really be personal preference as to which you prefer. The Ilford is very warm, the Baryta from Hahnemuhle is very very cool, and the Epson is somewhere in between. Michael has written about them in the past, look for "Battle of the Barytas" and "Epson Exhibition" on his reviews page.
Neil
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Yeah, I just wish the Exhibition Fiber was in rolls though. How do they handle both B&W AND Color?
I have printed wonderfully on both the Epson and Ilford papers in both B&W and color. Ilford paper has a very wide gamut. the only minor drawback with the Epson paper is that it has OBAs.
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For a slight sheen effect - you might try Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin, if you have not already.
Howard
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the Baryta from Hahnemuhle is very very cool
The Fine Art Baryta is cool, but Photo Rag Baryta is not. The latter is OBA-free with a slightly warm paper base. I also prefer the texture of the Photo Rag version.
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Hey Jeff! I am thinking of getting a box of the Photo Rag Baryta to use on Ken's 7900, so its a paper you like?
The Fine Art Baryta is cool, but Photo Rag Baryta is not. The latter is OBA-free with a slightly warm paper base. I also prefer the texture of the Photo Rag version.
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Hey Jeff! I am thinking of getting a box of the Photo Rag Baryta to use on Ken's 7900, so its a paper you like?
Yes, Photo Rag Baryta is my favorite fiber semi-gloss paper, I use it whenever I'm printing with photo-black ink. If you want, PM me your address and I can send you a sample print on it.
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I was using Hanh Fine Art Baryta and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk together due to their difference in one being VERY warm and the other being VERY cool. I would swap depending on the image being printed and its toning.
Now that PhotoRag Baryta has come out, I use it exclusively for gloss (and Hahn Bamboo for Matte). I'm very happy.
I print both B&W and colour. I am using a Canon ipf5100.
www.iancoxleigh.com (http://www.iancoxleigh.com)
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How do you like the Bamboo? I have had issues with color on this paper, and it seems to me to require very careful handling in the long and short runs. Anyone tried the Sugar Cane paper either?
I was using Hanh Fine Art Baryta and Ilford Gold Fibre Silk together due to their difference in one being VERY warm and the other being VERY cool. I would swap depending on the image being printed and its toning.
Now that PhotoRag Baryta has come out, I use it exclusively for gloss (and Hahn Bamboo for Matte). I'm very happy.
I print both B&W and colour. I am using a Canon ipf5100.
www.iancoxleigh.com (http://www.iancoxleigh.com)
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2) Epson exhibition fibre paper (I'd like to find this stuff in rolls)
Now available in rolls. Just had two delivers. (I'm in Aus, so actually Traditional Photo, but same thing). Quite happy with it.
Regards
Mark.
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Now available in rolls. Just had two delivers. (I'm in Aus, so actually Traditional Photo, but same thing). Quite happy with it.
Must be Ausie luck? In the US nothing's listed on Epson's site (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/pamCategory.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Professional&oid=-10381).
Neil
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How do you like the Bamboo? I have had issues with color on this paper, and it seems to me to require very careful handling in the long and short runs. Anyone tried the Sugar Cane paper either?
There are very few colour images in my portfolio that I print matte, so I don't have much experience with that. I haven't had handling difficulties though.
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Must be Ausie luck? In the US nothing's listed on Epson's site (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/pamCategory.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Professional&oid=-10381).
Neil
Epson Tradition is also in UK and I think also in the rest of EU countries (it is a problem of patents and agreements with the paper manufacturer and Epson America).
By the way, I mentioned in an other post, that Canson will have a Baryta paper Sep/Oct in addition to Platine Fibre, I saw both samples, liked the Baryta paper compared to the Platine, but my final choice will be once I test them with my prints.
Gonzalo
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No one else has a favorite paper or paper suggestion for the members of the forum?
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No one else has a favorite paper or paper suggestion for the members of the forum?
As long as you keep the distinction between PhotoRag Baryta and Fine Art Baryta in mind I think you''ve gotten good feedback along the lines of my experiences as well. For one more photo black paper to try, Innova FibaPrint White Semi-Matte is excellent, if just a hair cool for my taste, and may have one of the nicest darkroom type surfaces I've seen.
For matte black, the Premier Art Generations Alise, both bright and natural white, continues to be impressive papers in my testing.
Tyler
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I have been running a fine art print shop for 4 years now, always trying new papers when they arrive on the market, but in the end I always stick to Epson and Hahnemuehle. The Innova, Harmann and ilford (baryta) papers look beautiful but they are just too delicate and that means to many reprints. So my list of paper is as follows:
-Epson premium luster --> Excellent paper. When matted and behind glass, who cares about paper feel. just looks great.
-Epson premium glossy --> for all prints that are mounted behind plexiglass, because of not having any obvious surface texture, so no air bubbles
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag --> a classic beautiful paper, probably still the most popular paper in our studioù
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag Baryta --> After we started printing on this paper we've got rid of Fine Art Baryta (just for some clients who prefer the black on Fine Art Baryta --> a little darker and less warm)
-Hahnemuehle Bamboo --> A paper we like, but not use that much. Black and white images in shadow areas are better then PhotoRag, but still most clients prefer PhotoRag. For color images Bamboo is a bit too warm.
And that is about it. Most important is that I stick to a paper I like and get used to its properties. Know where it shines, but most of all, know the limits.
Softproofing is important and so is a good monitor, but more important is to know your output. You can buy the most expensive Eizo, but if you change paper all the time, I can assure you that you're better off with a calibrated imac and get used to a paper and learn to know how it behaves on your images.
Jochem
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Interesting. So the glossy is not too glossy? I am leaning towards the Photo Rag Baryta just because I love Photo Rag so much.
I have been running a fine art print shop for 4 years now, always trying new papers when they arrive on the market, but in the end I always stick to Epson and Hahnemuehle. The Innova, Harmann and ilford (baryta) papers look beautiful but they are just too delicate and that means to many reprints. So my list of paper is as follows:
-Epson premium luster --> Excellent paper. When matted and behind glass, who cares about paper feel. just looks great.
-Epson premium glossy --> for all prints that are mounted behind plexiglass, because of not having any obvious surface texture, so no air bubbles
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag --> a classic beautiful paper, probably still the most popular paper in our studioù
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag Baryta --> After we started printing on this paper we've got rid of Fine Art Baryta (just for some clients who prefer the black on Fine Art Baryta --> a little darker and less warm)
-Hahnemuehle Bamboo --> A paper we like, but not use that much. Black and white images in shadow areas are better then PhotoRag, but still most clients prefer PhotoRag. For color images Bamboo is a bit too warm.
And that is about it. Most important is that I stick to a paper I like and get used to its properties. Know where it shines, but most of all, know the limits.
Softproofing is important and so is a good monitor, but more important is to know your output. You can buy the most expensive Eizo, but if you change paper all the time, I can assure you that you're better off with a calibrated imac and get used to a paper and learn to know how it behaves on your images.
Jochem
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Hi jschone,
I'm in a place where paper is hard to find and the printer guys that I trust only carries Epson papers. I am currently using Epson Velvet for my prints I have also tried Ilford Pearl - they're both nice but I want to try something else to know what paper would be best for my images. I have read that images like mine are good with Fuji Crystal Archive paper, a paper for color. I have read the gradations are smooth as it can. Again, I cannot try it for myself.
With your years of experience, and this goes for everyone... what paper would you suggest? I mean generally.
My works can be seen at www.ognita.com
PS. I would have just sent you a PM as I feel this post is too self oriented but I thought some members might benefit from the answers.
Thanks!
ReD
I have been running a fine art print shop for 4 years now, always trying new papers when they arrive on the market, but in the end I always stick to Epson and Hahnemuehle. The Innova, Harmann and ilford (baryta) papers look beautiful but they are just too delicate and that means to many reprints. So my list of paper is as follows:
-Epson premium luster --> Excellent paper. When matted and behind glass, who cares about paper feel. just looks great.
-Epson premium glossy --> for all prints that are mounted behind plexiglass, because of not having any obvious surface texture, so no air bubbles
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag --> a classic beautiful paper, probably still the most popular paper in our studioù
-Hahnemuehle PhotoRag Baryta --> After we started printing on this paper we've got rid of Fine Art Baryta (just for some clients who prefer the black on Fine Art Baryta --> a little darker and less warm)
-Hahnemuehle Bamboo --> A paper we like, but not use that much. Black and white images in shadow areas are better then PhotoRag, but still most clients prefer PhotoRag. For color images Bamboo is a bit too warm.
And that is about it. Most important is that I stick to a paper I like and get used to its properties. Know where it shines, but most of all, know the limits.
Softproofing is important and so is a good monitor, but more important is to know your output. You can buy the most expensive Eizo, but if you change paper all the time, I can assure you that you're better off with a calibrated imac and get used to a paper and learn to know how it behaves on your images.
Jochem
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Hi, I actually like the Epson papers, they do very well on my 4880 and on the R2400 before it. For just regular printing, the Epson Ultra Premium Exhibition paper works well in my printers with good colors. BTW, I just checked out your website and WOW! You do amazing work. Your work is similar to one of my all time favorite photographers; Chen Changfen, who photographs the Great Wall. He prints some stunning prints using an Epson printer on Rice paper.
Hi jschone,
I'm in a place where paper is hard to find and the printer guys that I trust only carries Epson papers. I am currently using Epson Velvet for my prints I have also tried Ilford Pearl - they're both nice but I want to try something else to know what paper would be best for my images. I have read that images like mine are good with Fuji Crystal Archive paper, a paper for color. I have read the gradations are smooth as it can. Again, I cannot try it for myself.
With your years of experience, and this goes for everyone... what paper would you suggest? I mean generally.
My works can be seen at www.ognita.com
PS. I would have just sent you a PM as I feel this post is too self oriented but I thought some members might benefit from the answers.
Thanks!
ReD
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Thanks for the reply Murph =) I thought I killed the your thread there with a rather selfish question... whew!
I should have just asked what's would be the best paper for smoothest gradations, hehe
Anyway, thank you for your kind words, Murph. I'll step aside so Paper Talk can continue
Thanks!
ReD
PS. I'm looking at Chen Changfen's work right now. Thanks for the reference
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No one else has a favorite paper or paper suggestion for the members of the forum?
I've been printing an exhibit using Red River Aurora white and its great and inexpensive.
Peter
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Jeff just sent me a couple of photos printed on the Hahnemuehl Photo Rag Baryta, and I am very, very impressed. Very nice stuff.
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I have been using the hahnemuhle photorag 308 forever and love it, and recently started using the ultrasmooth 305 since I needed a rag paper in 60" widths and have been really pleased. Its just like the 308 just a little smoother and seems a tad brighter.
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ReD, if you get a chance to try Epson Exhibition Fiber, I think it would work very well with your work.
Sharon
Thanks a lot for the tip, Sharon! I'm eager to try it out
Murphy, you lucky you. I guess you and jeff are neighbors
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Not quite, he lives in Houston, I live in San Antonio, Texas. However, I can easily second the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper comment, Ken printed one this weekend, and it looks great, and reminds me of the old "F" surface photo paper from Kodak. A can't go wrong paper either.
Thanks a lot for the tip, Sharon! I'm eager to try it out
Murphy, you lucky you. I guess you and jeff are neighbors
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Anyone have any flaking issues with either of these papers?
quote name='TylerB' date='Sep 3 2009, 02:37 AM' post='307892']
As long as you keep the distinction between PhotoRag Baryta and Fine Art Baryta in mind I think you''ve gotten good feedback along the lines of my experiences as well. For one more photo black paper to try, Innova FibaPrint White Semi-Matte is excellent, if just a hair cool for my taste, and may have one of the nicest darkroom type surfaces I've seen.
For matte black, the Premier Art Generations Alise, both bright and natural white, continues to be impressive papers in my testing.
Tyler
[/quote]
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I've not seen any flaking with the Baryta papers. It's definitely an issue with the original matte version of Photo Rag, though. I got in the habit of brushing the sheets off before printing with it (couldn't really do that with rolls though).
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As long as you keep the distinction between PhotoRag Baryta and Fine Art Baryta in mind I think you''ve gotten good feedback along the lines of my experiences as well. For one more photo black paper to try, Innova FibaPrint White Semi-Matte is excellent, if just a hair cool for my taste, and may have one of the nicest darkroom type surfaces I've seen.
For matte black, the Premier Art Generations Alise, both bright and natural white, continues to be impressive papers in my testing.
Tyler
Tyler;
I also love FibaPrint White Semi-Matte and have been printing on it for a few years. I love the surface and the way it takes ink. However I have had so many QC problems with it that I am always looking for a substitute. I buy it in sheets and often a box will have very stubborn curls / waves in the sheets that will just not lay flat.
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Tyler;
I also love FibaPrint White Semi-Matte and have been printing on it for a few years. I love the surface and the way it takes ink. However I have had so many QC problems with it that I am always looking for a substitute. I buy it in sheets and often a box will have very stubborn curls / waves in the sheets that will just not lay flat.
I'm sorry to hear that, it seems we always run into these issues with use. I was a big fan of Ilford Gold Fiber Silk when it came out and I've seen many nice prints on it, but handling became too big of a problem for me. With sheets it's been fine, rolls are a big problem for me.
More and more I'm seeing QC paper issues, I wonder if the economy is having an impact...
Tyler
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Murph, I am also in Houston and I have a *ton* of paper from most manufacturers. I do consulting for Moab Paper, which naturally means that I have all of their papers in my studio (both cut sheets and rolls). One paper that hasn't been mentioned is the new Somerset Photo Satin 300gsm cotton rag paper, which is an incredible matte paper with one of the best blacks I have yet seen.
Feel free to stop by sometime. I am over in the Memorial area.
Andy
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Murph, I am also in Houston and I have a *ton* of paper from most manufacturers. I do consulting for Moab Paper, which naturally means that I have all of their papers in my studio (both cut sheets and rolls). One paper that hasn't been mentioned is the new Somerset Photo Satin 300gsm cotton rag paper, which is an incredible matte paper with one of the best blacks I have yet seen.
Feel free to stop by sometime. I am over in the Memorial area.
Andy
Hi Andy!
Hey Andy, could you provide a link for that satin paper? I couldn't find it on the Moab website.
Paul
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Great question. Moab Paper launched a new web site a few weeks ago, and it looks like the paper didn't make it onto the site. It is a new paper, so that may explain its absence. I have sent an email to their marketing director to ask why it isn't there.
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Anyone tried the Innova offerings? Or the Inkpress papers?
Inkjet Art (http://www.inkjetart.com/cart/papers-innova-c-1_6_285.html?osCsid=thcb0c71ktl6csrdq2uk39dkt5)
Inkjet art Inkpress (http://www.inkjetart.com/cart/papers-press-c-1_6_159.html?osCsid=a5up1519h9fvp94b9f8ffn5991)
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Murph, Inkpress papers can be nice, but their biggest issue is consistency. I have bought papers from them in the past, and sometimes the papers don't closely match at all. Kind of weird.
I found out yesterday why the Somerset Photo Satin paper isn't on their web site. It has to do with the mill in Somerset, England. They won't allow Legion Paper to co-mingle the paper with the Moab Paper branded products on the web site. You can still buy the paper through the normal dealers, but not on the web site. It is a very beautiful paper.
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Really, that is interesting about the Somerset Photo Satin. I wonder if Legion has changed the Entrada any since they took it over?
Murph, Inkpress papers can be nice, but their biggest issue is consistency. I have bought papers from them in the past, and sometimes the papers don't closely match at all. Kind of weird.
I found out yesterday why the Somerset Photo Satin paper isn't on their web site. It has to do with the mill in Somerset, England. They won't allow Legion Paper to co-mingle the paper with the Moab Paper branded products on the web site. You can still buy the paper through the normal dealers, but not on the web site. It is a very beautiful paper.
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Absolutely no changes at all with Entrada. They were smart not to mess with such a popular paper.
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Sorry, back from the dead, but I have found that on my 4880, the Moab Entrada prints the absolute best, compared to the Hahnemuehl Photo Rag, and Bamboo. Now using Windows 7 64 bit, and it seems to handle profiles, for me, better than Windows XP. Although for some reason my printing issues with Hahnemuehl Bamboo have completely disappeared as well. I have found that I like the weight/feel of the 295/308 gsm papers more than the 190 gsm papers. The Entrada 300 gsm reminds me of the old double weight Kodak Medalist photo paper. If I absolutely HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT, I use the Entrada, it just works on my 4880.