Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: RichFisher on August 26, 2009, 12:28:46 am
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I am considering a 24" wide printer and have heard lots of good and not so good things about different printers (Canon, Epson, HP). I am currently using an Epson 2400 and have used both Epsons and Canon printers (all 13" wide in the past). I like to print on gloss paper for snap and may move to Harman Gloss FB AI (warmtone) for most of my serious work. I seldom print on matte so MK is not a concern.
How have other made this decision?
My concerns are that I don't print that often (I am a serious hobbist) but would like to have the great colors of the Epson 7900 but am concerned about their tendence to clog. I noticed that Epson has "new reduce clogging" inks. Is this really a change in inks or simply marketing hype. How serious are the problems with the Epson if left shutdown for a month or so (I live in the midwest and the winters are dry and summers humid).
Between the Canon and HP, any recommendations?
Thanks
Rich
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I am considering a 24" wide printer and have heard lots of good and not so good things about different printers (Canon, Epson, HP). I am currently using an Epson 2400 and have used both Epsons and Canon printers (all 13" wide in the past). I like to print on gloss paper for snap and may move to Harman Gloss FB AI (warmtone) for most of my serious work. I seldom print on matte so MK is not a concern.
How have other made this decision?
My concerns are that I don't print that often (I am a serious hobbist) but would like to have the great colors of the Epson 7900 but am concerned about their tendence to clog. I noticed that Epson has "new reduce clogging" inks. Is this really a change in inks or simply marketing hype. How serious are the problems with the Epson if left shutdown for a month or so (I live in the midwest and the winters are dry and summers humid).
Between the Canon and HP, any recommendations?
Thanks
Rich
I think you couldn't go wrong with an HP Z3200(-PS). The Z3100 and the Z3200 have been very reliable for me with intermittent use. No clogging issues, small carts, little ink waste, no head replacements. I leave the printer unpowered if I'm going away for a weekend or for weeks but keep them powered overnight when they are used more frequently.
The software has its quirks but I wouldn't like to exchange that flaw for issues with clogs or ink and time waste on strange cleaning processes. Then there is the gloss enhancer for gloss papers on the Z3100-Z3200 models.
met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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I am considering a 24" wide printer and have heard lots of good and not so good things about different printers (Canon, Epson, HP). I am currently using an Epson 2400 and have used both Epsons and Canon printers (all 13" wide in the past). I like to print on gloss paper for snap and may move to Harman Gloss FB AI (warmtone) for most of my serious work. I seldom print on matte so MK is not a concern.
How have other made this decision?
My concerns are that I don't print that often (I am a serious hobbist) but would like to have the great colors of the Epson 7900 but am concerned about their tendence to clog. I noticed that Epson has "new reduce clogging" inks. Is this really a change in inks or simply marketing hype. How serious are the problems with the Epson if left shutdown for a month or so (I live in the midwest and the winters are dry and summers humid).
Between the Canon and HP, any recommendations?
Thanks
Rich
Canon or HP: you probably can't go wrong with either of them.
Both are frugal with ink for printing and cleaning.
Canon 6100/6200 (at least were I live: Netherlands) is substantially cheaper to buy then the HP 3200, although if you need a new printhead (or 2) for the canon it is costly. HP Heads are chaeper.
The HP brings the integrated profiling along, if you print on many different papers and keeps changing those papers frequently that is an advantage.
Canon has a nice Photoshop plugin to print your file. And if you not use the plugin but print thru the print dialog of PS and OS-X and you have installed the 'Extra driver kit' you can also nest multiple images on 1 paper (like a RIP often allows you to do) a nice bonus if you want to print small images on wider roll based paper. I'm not aware wether the HP software allows this too.
I opted for the canon, although the 17" model, so I had no to "worry" about the HP (only epson 3800/4880).
I leave the canon always on standby, it daily wakes up to check/clean, if you print every few days it just starts to print. However after longer periods (more than a week i guestimate) of no printing it does an nozzle check/clean. 2 days ago I printed a small test print after 3 weeks of inactivity: before it started to print it did a nozzle-check - clean - nozzle-check - clean - nozzle check cycle.
Permanentlely clogged nozzles are remapped to other nozzles, incurring some speed loss, I have not yet noticed that it started to print slower, when a certain amount of nozzles is clogged/remapped is exceeded it will error out on 'replace head'.
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I think you couldn't go wrong with an HP Z3200(-PS). The Z3100 and the Z3200 have been very reliable for me with intermittent use. No clogging issues, small carts, little ink waste, no head replacements. I leave the printer unpowered if I'm going away for a weekend or for weeks but keep them powered overnight when they are used more frequently.
The software has its quirks but I wouldn't like to exchange that flaw for issues with clogs or ink and time waste on strange cleaning processes. Then there is the gloss enhancer for gloss papers on the Z3100-Z3200 models.
I second that.
I have a Z3200 44" and an Epson 7900 and the Z3200 has been far more reliable, productive and profitable for me.
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I second that.
I have a Z3200 44" and an Epson 7900 and the Z3200 has been far more reliable, productive and profitable for me.
Thanks for the great insights.
How does the color gamut compare between the HP Z3200 and Epson 7900? Is the Epson that much wider/punchier?
Rich
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How does the color gamut compare between the HP Z3200 and Epson 7900? Is the Epson that much wider/punchier?
In practical usage I haven't noticed a gamut advantage with either printer.
Both machines produce great looking prints but I have found that the Z3200 takes much less effort and setup time.
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I love my HP!
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I just went through the same process. I was looking for a 24" wide printer too about less than a month ago (Although, I ended up with a 44" instead ). I was looking at the Canon iPF6100, HP Z3200 and EPSON 7900. I went the Canon route based on the fact that Canon units are more rugged in term of performance and and quality. It seems to me that EPSON has a big problem with the printing head clogging and wasting ink. The HP was ok but the distributor seems to have no clue about their product and I worried with their after sales service. Canon strikes the balance between the other two brands. In term of IQ, I could see the difference between the prints made on each of the brand but negligible, especially, if you are not comparing it side by side. That's my opinion. Hope it helps.
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I love my hp z 3100 it is so good with ink. It is fine with roll paper a bit of a pain with single sheets. Much cheaper to run then my old epson 7600. It is also the most archival according to Wilhelm. Canon second and epson last. David
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I have an HP Z3200 and a Canon iPF8100, both 44" wide units. They are totally different animals, but here are some simple bullet points:
Z3200 cannot cut canvas.
iPF8100 can cut canvas.
Z3200 calibrates based on each paper you use.
iPF8100 calibrates using a single paper for everything.
Z3200 isn't very fast, so it is perhaps a better 'fine art' printer than a production printer.
iPF8100 is a workhorse and is heavy heavy heavy. Better for production.
Z3200 houses the roll in the back.
iPF8100 houses the roll in the front.
Z3200 can create profiles.
iPF8100 cannot.
Z3200 cartridges aren't the largest.
iPF8100 (not sure about 6100) goes up to 700ml. That is a HUGE amount of ink. I use the 330ml carts myself.
Ok. Just some bullet points off the top of my head.
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Andy
That is quite helpful.
I will print a few images at a time and may try difference paper types. Don't expect to print on canvas, but that could change. However it is not part of the equation for the moment.
Thanks
Rich
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The not cutting canvas is all but a minor annoyance. I simply feed it forward and run a pair of scissors down it. I would love to have larger ink well though, and especially FRONT loading paper. That is the single biggest improvement.
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Even if my Z3200 could automatically cut canvas, I would still prefer to cut the prints with scissors.
A few years ago I nearly blunted my Epson 9600 cutter after cutting three or four canvases and that is an expensive replacement.
To make things a bit easier I add a narrow black line at the edge of the image file and use this as a guide to cutting.
If I am running a batch of canvases, I submit them all at once and I don't cut them until the run is complete.
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Yeah, the Z3200 does a great job printing on canvas. Output is beautiful. Even though an older Epson *can* cut canvas, it doesn't meant that it was built for it. Canon has the best cutter for that kind of job. I am not familiar with the new 7900/9900 printer, though, and would love to hear if the cutter is up to snuff for that.
I don't like using scissors at all, because I like perfectly straight cuts right off the printer. Call me anal, but that is how I like it. When I sell my canvas prints in a tube, and not stretched, I would like my customer to see that I pay attention to small details.
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Yeah, the Z3200 does a great job printing on canvas. Output is beautiful. Even though an older Epson *can* cut canvas, it doesn't meant that it was built for it. Canon has the best cutter for that kind of job. I am not familiar with the new 7900/9900 printer, though, and would love to hear if the cutter is up to snuff for that.
I don't like using scissors at all, because I like perfectly straight cuts right off the printer. Call me anal, but that is how I like it. When I sell my canvas prints in a tube, and not stretched, I would like my customer to see that I pay attention to small details.
Yes I am also very impressed with the canvas results I am getting with the Z3200.
Once I have cut the canvas with scissors, I can use my Rotrim or a cutting mat to tidy up the cut.
The Rotrim just seems to stay sharp forever and even it it became blunt, replacement parts are available at a sensible price.
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Exactly, a quick trim is all it takes.
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I have the Canon ipf6100. It has run for a year and a half faultlessly, and I do a lot of printing. One point to consider if as you say you do not print that often, is that the ink cartridges are 130mm and there are 12 of them. In a year and half of fairly high usage, I have used 12 grey cartridges, 5 photo-grey, and most of the others are only on the third cartridges, and the photo-cyan only the second. If you do such low volumes some of the cartridges could be in the machine for years. Would the ink still be good?
Perhaps a smaller printer like the Epson 3800 with its smaller carts would be better.
Jim
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Andy,
Do you varnish your canvas prints before you ship them?
BTW, my 9900 cuts canvas perfectly.
Paul
Yeah, the Z3200 does a great job printing on canvas. Output is beautiful. Even though an older Epson *can* cut canvas, it doesn't meant that it was built for it. Canon has the best cutter for that kind of job. I am not familiar with the new 7900/9900 printer, though, and would love to hear if the cutter is up to snuff for that.
I don't like using scissors at all, because I like perfectly straight cuts right off the printer. Call me anal, but that is how I like it. When I sell my canvas prints in a tube, and not stretched, I would like my customer to see that I pay attention to small details.
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Andy,
Do you varnish your canvas prints before you ship them?
I do, but I have somebody do that for me. Thank God, since it is a huge pain in the butt.
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On the z3100, there is a narrow groove in the front of the printer so you can manually cut canvas perfectly straight with a razor or exacto.
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I am considering a 24" wide printer and have heard lots of good and not so good things about different printers (Canon, Epson, HP). I am currently using an Epson 2400 and have used both Epsons and Canon printers (all 13" wide in the past). I like to print on gloss paper for snap and may move to Harman Gloss FB AI (warmtone) for most of my serious work. I seldom print on matte so MK is not a concern.
How have other made this decision?
My concerns are that I don't print that often (I am a serious hobbist) but would like to have the great colors of the Epson 7900 but am concerned about their tendence to clog. I noticed that Epson has "new reduce clogging" inks. Is this really a change in inks or simply marketing hype. How serious are the problems with the Epson if left shutdown for a month or so (I live in the midwest and the winters are dry and summers humid).
Between the Canon and HP, any recommendations?
Thanks
Rich
I have been studying these 24" printers for quite some time now. One week I'm going with Epson, then it's Canon, and then it's HP! I'm all over the map... but I finally settled on Canon, and not because of the money. I ruled out Epson because of my concern with inkjet clogs given the infrequent use I intend until fully retired in another year or two. I will likely not be printing more than once or twice a week. Equally of concern is the environment I am in with its periods of extremely low humidity. Epson specifies an operating humidity between 40 and 50%.
Canon's operating humidity ranges in the ballpark of 10 to 85%! That is a huge difference. HP is only marginally more narrow than is Canon in this respect. I imagine it has a lot to do with the thermal print heads in these two makers as compared to Epson's MicroPiezo technology.
Epson is a fine printer, perhaps arguably the best in terms of color gamut and finer detail under a magnifying loop, but most everyone agrees all three printers do a spectacular job as goes the naked eye.
Replaceable print heads are not relevant in my decision. If I ever do manage to wear one out, I'll likely be ready to upgrade to the latest technology regardless.
Also, due to my low volume for at least the next year, I'm not much interested in larger ink cartridges.
HP's integrated photospectrophotometer reminds me of my old single-unit microwave/oven combination. When the microwave failed, I had to replace the whole unit. I did replace it, but I kept the microwave separate from the oven the second time around. I prefer the idea of having my photospectrophotometer separate from my printer. I'm going to take the money saved on the Canon and buy the 1iO scanning table with the i1Pro spectrophotometer for not only a more versatile color workflow arrangement but also for the greater flexibility when it comes to expanding my digital darkroom in the future.
So for me, it is the Canon iPF6100. I plan to get mine at colorHQ and I have until the end of September to take advantage of both their low price and a 400 dollar rebate.
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I have been studying these 24" printers for quite some time now.
So for me, it is the Canon iPF6100. I plan to get mine at colorHQ and I have until the end of September to take advantage of both their low price and a 400 dollar rebate.
Out of curiosity, is there a big difference in per-print price between the Canon and HP 24 inch printers for someone who - like yourself - makes a few prints per week?
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Out of curiosity, is there a big difference in per-print price between the Canon and HP 24 inch printers for someone who - like yourself - makes a few prints per week?
The way I looked at cost per print was ink usage and Canon claims to use the least ink per print in the industry. I have yet to read anywhere Canon is inefficient with ink. I imagine the larger cartridges one can buy with Epson cuts the cost of ink considerably. As for comparisons to HP, I'd be interested in opinions. Good question.
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Let's back into this in a different way:
What are *your* requirements? All of these printers are fine printers, and depending on your own requirements, you should be able to arrive at a decision. Hearing data like operating humidity environments and such I kind of giggle at, because all of these printers are going to be indoors in situations where you have some control over humidity. Just figure out what you want and then make a purchase that satisfies those requirements.
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I am a small volume printer - I would be afraid of huge ink tanks. My biggest costs, by far, (outside of a printer breakdown repair) is in the fancy fine art rag paper I use in my 24" HP Z3100, not the ink.
Howard
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Let's back into this in a different way:
What are *your* requirements? All of these printers are fine printers, and depending on your own requirements, you should be able to arrive at a decision. Hearing data like operating humidity environments and such I kind of giggle at, because all of these printers are going to be indoors in situations where you have some control over humidity. Just figure out what you want and then make a purchase that satisfies those requirements.
I live at 4000 feet east of San Diego. The humidity during Santa Ana conditions when the winds blow over the mountains off the desert (I'm talking serious winds! Remember the Cedar Fire?), the humidity drops to the low teens for up to four or five days at a time. I have a well sealed and insulated home, but no air conditioning. I open the windows at night to cool the house down inside and then shut them in the morning before it warms up (we commonly get 50 degree temperature shifts during Santa Ana conditions, it can freeze at night and get into the 80's in the daytime... crazy stuff). I have a nice weather station that keeps me informed as to when it is best to either open or close the windows. As you can imagine, it gets dry in the house as a result. If I keep my digital dark room closed up at night to maintain humidity, it will become a sauna.
I have never read of significant clogging issues with the Canon or the HP, but I have read what sound to be nightmares on clogging issues with Epson. I have read speculation as to causes behind these clogs being related to humidity tolerance and frequency of use. In other words, these are *my* requirements... not of the giggling variety IMO, I might add.
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Let's back into this in a different way:
What are *your* requirements? All of these printers are fine printers, and depending on your own requirements, you should be able to arrive at a decision. Hearing data like operating humidity environments and such I kind of giggle at, because all of these printers are going to be indoors in situations where you have some control over humidity. Just figure out what you want and then make a purchase that satisfies those requirements.
My requirements are print quality, both of the final product and the printing experience. Frequent clogging would more than just annoying. I will print frequently and in small batches (perhaps 20+ prints a month including test prints).
I tend to on glossy and fine art "gloss" type papers. Canvas and matte is not, at least for the moment, on the radar. I will stick to a few papers but may change my assortment occasionally.
Thanks
Rich
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Rich, I have to say that any of these printers will work for you. Based on some of these requirement, like clogging, I keep hearing that the 7900 is better with clogging than past models and then I hear that it is worse. Since I split my printing between my Canon and my HP, neither machine gets too much use, and I don't have too many clogging or cleaning cycles. You may end up just basing your decision on price, because all of these machines are good printers. I like my HP for my black and white prints on fiber papers like Silver Rag, Moab Colorado and Fine Art Pearl, as I use the gloss enhancer to equalize the glossiness.