Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: R_Medvid on August 05, 2009, 05:21:11 am
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A few months ago I had found a Column Error in my Phase One P30 RF back and my local dealer sent it to Denmark for fixing (it was still on a one-year warranty).
Now arrives.... another P30 RF back with info that my back is somewhere lost in Danish Customs office
This another back that I'm given:
1. Has scratches on the body and screen (while mine was flawless).
2. Has more than 16K count, while mine was about 3500 shots.
3. Works only with one of my AFD bodies, while shooting with another one doesn't work (shutter release doesn't activate).
4. Doesn't sync with my computers making the tethered shooting impossible (mine worked ok).
Is this a common practice?
(After hearing all I had to say, the dealer expressed a hope that this situation will be resolved somehow .....)
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UPD as of 16 Oct
I have received a fair replacement for my P30 DB from PO.
More details at the end of this thread.
Case closed.
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I can understand your frustration! If they behave so differently, could it be that they have different firmware versions installed?
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I can understand your frustration! If they behave so differently, could it be that they have different firmware versions installed?
Yes. I suspect so, but I have to look into the papers later to compare the specifications.
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Let us know how the back behaves when it has the same firmware installed as your original back.
As for the scratches, perhaps you can work out some small amount of compensation with P1. After all, the resale value of this unit is lower than your original unit. Or have them supply you with a back in the same condition.
нi пуху, анi пера!
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2. Has more than 16K count, while mine was about 3500 shots.
as your first back was refurbished as well you actually don't know the count as refurbished backs come with the counter set to 1000 AFAIK. I wouldn't worry about the count anyhow.
But the entire story is kinda unbelivable... hope it will be solved for you.
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Did you buy refurbished DB? I used to buy a refurbished Lightphase many years ago.
The first DB is not good. So I change until the 3rd one which works well.
But outside is very old and actuation is more than 100K.
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Did you buy refurbished DB? I used to buy a refurbished Lightphase many years ago.
The first DB is not good. So I change until the 3rd one which works well.
But outside is very old and actuation is more than 100K.
Yes, I bought a refurbished (RF) back, and it was superb. And I want it back
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Yes, I bought a refurbished (RF) back, and it was superb. And I want it back
The sqeaky wheel gets the grease. I'd be relentless about pursuing a replacement that matches the condition of the original. I'm sure they'll treat you well.
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The sqeaky wheel gets the grease. I'd be relentless about pursuing a replacement that matches the condition of the original. I'm sure they'll treat you well.
Agree. Just request that you would like a better conditioned unit - particularly in terms of no scratches, etc. As long as the shot count is not too far out of the ballpark, it shouldn't matter (in terms of re-sale price on your behalf), though 16,500 vs 3,500 is a bit more of a difference than I would like to see. But like has been stated, just request another unit, emphasize what is important to you - lower shot count, better superficial condition of the body, etc. In my experience, this request will be accepted, though it may take a bit for them to come up with the right one for you.
Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
404-543-8475
steve@captureintegration.com
any news? :-)
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any news? :-)
About.........?
Steve Hendrix
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About.........?
the modified username and signature...
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the modified username and signature...
Oh! Well, I mentioned it in another thread, but it was kind of buried......I suppose I could post a thread just so everyone is clear.
Steve Hendrix
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as your first back was refurbished as well you actually don't know the count as refurbished backs come with the counter set to 1000 AFAIK. I wouldn't worry about the count anyhow.
But the entire story is kinda unbelivable... hope it will be solved for you.
Every single Phase One refurb back* comes with the correct/true number of exposures. The only situation in which the counter is reset is if the main electronic board AND the sensor were damaged, in which case the unit would be "beyond repair" (would cost more to repair and thoroughly check than to make a new one) and therefore never make it into refurbished stock".
Agree with Steve: speak with your dealer and politely ask that Phase replace it with a more equal-condition unit or otherwise provide you some other compensation; Phase has excellent customer service and they will make things right. Do be patient though as specific refurbs become available as someone else upgrades a back.
*AFAIK this is standard with other mnfr as well, but I can't be sure; I am sure with Phase One.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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Every single Phase One refurb back* comes with the correct/true number of exposures.
Mine came with 1000. I asked about that even number and someone told me that's a counter reset for RF backs. misinformation obviously. Thanks for clarifying.
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Let us know how the back behaves when it has the same firmware installed as your original back.
As for the scratches, perhaps you can work out some small amount of compensation with P1. After all, the resale value of this unit is lower than your original unit. Or have them supply you with a back in the same condition.
нi пуху, анi пера!
Hi there,
May I thank all of you who responded to my (a bit anxious) post. A short update on my case:
1. I managed to turn on the tethered shooting. Windows is very strangly reacting to a different IEEE1394 device, even if I do all the tweaking with the drivers as described in the PO Knowledge Base.
2. My two AFD bodies work with the back ok (it was my mistake and can be partially attributed to my frustration at the moment).
Presently I'm waiting for the answer on my request to make a more fair replacement.
I'm patient and polite, as I was adviced I'm not here to flame, but I was really surprised that I had no polite "Excuse us" from the PO side. It's like you leave your Toyota Camry for a short fix, and when you come back to pick up your car they give you a 4-year-older (junkier) car with cracked bumper. No excuses, just a short note that "we cannot find your car, so this is the replacement". No, really, it does remind me the Soviet-era style of service (and I was born in the USSR, as you might guess) when people were at the mercy of beaurocratic service everywhere. Amazing that I face it from a Western company....
Even more amazing is that when I entered my profile at phaseone.com I discovered that they had changed the SN of the back that I own to this new one without any notice As if I bought it and registered it.... Dear people, is this normal???
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Phase kind of blew it. They should have communicated more openly with the customer. Whatever their standard operating procedure is with refurbs, the customer deserves to be informed of the status of property that he/she owns. I think Phase should give you a new P30+ and apologize for the stress they put you through.
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it should be replaced by one equivalent or on better condition.
it is not customer fault if the back went lost by Phase one.
any replacement that does not meet the above condition, is is equivalent of having to deal with a shady car repair shop on the suburbia.
Phase pretend to be sort of BMW of the MF cameras, they should proposed that scratched and higer shutter count back as a temporary replacement until something better come up or offered a compensation with apologies.
very likely that the back that has been lost it has been delivered to someone else in the mean time.....
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Maybe this will fall the wrong way but don't take it like that.
As I see in the first post the back was lost in transport at customs, NOT when with phase one.
To be honest I find it great service they get you a new back.
I've lost something during transport a while ago and could wait until it was recovered, which took nearly 2 months.
Than again, this is a much more expensive item of course.
But they could also have said, please inform your insurance company.
So although the back is not as pristine as what you had I think it's already great service they replaced it for you and not let you wait.
When there's such a good service I think they will also respond to your question on the scratch.
Especially now the rest seems to work great.
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As I see in the first post the back was lost in transport at customs, NOT when with phase one.
To be honest I find it great service they get you a new back.
But they could also have said, please inform your insurance company.
I agree, not many companies will give you this kind of service.
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I agree, not many companies will give you this kind of service.
Most American companies I have dealt with have very good service. For example, I've had lost-in-transit from Red River Paper, and they sent a replacement delivery it without a delay.
Good luck getting such service from European (well, non-UK) companies, which usually treat their customers as a nuisance and a necessary evil. It doesn't help that customers have the same attitude as Frank: even the customer doesn't think they are right. The only way to get service anywhere on this continent is to pay premium on everything.
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Maybe this will fall the wrong way but don't take it like that.
As I see in the first post the back was lost in transport at customs, NOT when with phase one.
To be honest I find it great service they get you a new back.
I've lost something during transport a while ago and could wait until it was recovered, which took nearly 2 months.
Than again, this is a much more expensive item of course.
But they could also have said, please inform your insurance company.
So although the back is not as pristine as what you had I think it's already great service they replaced it for you and not let you wait.
When there's such a good service I think they will also respond to your question on the scratch.
Especially now the rest seems to work great.
well, we do not know exactly how it has been lost, that was the message the customer got from Phase.
yet having to ship to another country an expensive item practically 95% of the times it needs to be serviced, it is not a great option.
that is hardly good customer service.
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I disagree with Frank.
The item was undisputedly in possession of Phase. When shipping it back the risk during shipping is still with Phase and not with the customer. It is their responsibility to get it safely in the hands of their customer. If using an insured service with the likes of UPS it is up to Phase to get it sorted out. I am pretty sure it did not get send out by regular mail but via a courier company like UPS/Fedex/etc.., I am also pretty sure it was send via Phases account with that company.
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I disagree with Frank.
The item was undisputedly in possession of Phase. When shipping it back the risk during shipping is still with Phase and not with the customer. It is their responsibility to get it safely in the hands of their customer. If using an insured service with the likes of UPS it is up to Phase to get it sorted out. I am pretty sure it did not get send out by regular mail but via a courier company like UPS/Fedex/etc.., I am also pretty sure it was send via Phases account with that company.
I think you are wrong, if you read the original post it was lost in Danish customs on the way in to Phase HQ.
Now arrives.... another P30 RF back with info that my back is somewhere lost in Danish Customs office
Items only go through customs when it arrives to a EU country not when it is sent back - there you will have to deal with the Ukranian customs.
IE the back was never in Phase One possession - or is there something I misunderstood.
Not knowing who actually send the package to Denmark it is hard to know the whole story - as written I agree with Frank that it could be a matter for the Mr. Medvins insurance company (or FedEx / UPS etc) not Phase One.
Phase One do however IMHO in this case provide an extraordinary good service.
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I think you are wrong, if you read the original post it was lost in Danish customs on the way in to Phase HQ.
Items only go through customs when it arrives to a EU country not when it is sent back - there you will have to deal with the Ukranian customs.
IE the back was never in Phase One possession - or is there something I misunderstood.
Not knowing who actually send the package to Denmark it is hard to know the whole story - as written I agree with Frank that it could be a matter for the Mr. Medvins insurance company (or FedEx / UPS etc) not Phase One.
Phase One do however IMHO in this case provide an extraordinary good service.
You are right, it seems I misread parts. After reading back it appears the dealer send it off to Denmark where it got lost. In that case the dealer should be the one fixing this. To make my point a bit clearer, I believe the party that is sending whatever item is the one responsible for making sure it gets where it is supposed to be.
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You are right, it seems I misread parts. After reading back it appears the dealer send it off to Denmark where it got lost. In that case the dealer should be the one fixing this. To make my point a bit clearer, I believe the party that is sending whatever item is the one responsible for making sure it gets where it is supposed to be.
Exactly, I completely agree.
However folks seem to bang P1 for not providing - I think they actually did much more than expected.
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I didn't communicate it correctly, I'm afraid.
The back arrived to Phase One, was accepted for repairs and in a week or so was ready and fixed.
It was sent out from Denmark but for some reason was returned back from Ukraine Customs to Denmark. After that is only obscurity...
Dustbak, you got it exactly as it is.
But still these details don't make me happier or Phase One more delicate in dealing with this issue.
I have my digital back lost, and silently substituted with a worse unit. period.
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@feppe,
What's wrong with my attitude ?
I'm a really relaxed customer, I know about the POOR POOR customer support from the European companies, especially in the Netherlands it's been getting worse by the year up to a point that I'm almost surprised if company calls back, answers emails or gives you the right answer
I think the problem if any with my attitude is that I'm too easy, although I have to admit that when a line is crossed I can get very difficult, but a line must be crossed for that to happen and normally that is a line were most customers would have become angry much earlier
What I understood from the TS is that he send out his back and it was lost in customs.
If indeed it had been send out by phase one I still think it's a good thing they replaced it that fast.
They could have said we are sorting it out, sorry you have to wait.
I recently had my mamiya body in repair for 6-7 weeks in total and I was lucky I had a backup in the form of the RZ and 5DMKII because my supplier did not even want to send things by priority (too expensive). My "attitude" towards this case was simply because it was a follow up on several other problems I had with that body and to be honest I was fed up with it and the times I had to miss my body. (I think you meant that affair with your remark), but overall I'm very relaxed
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@feppe,
What's wrong with my attitude ?
By your attitude I meant that as long as European customers accept being treated like a nuisance, we'll never get proper service.
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By your attitude I meant that as long as European customers accept being treated like a nuisance, we'll never get proper service.
Oh I agree on that 100%
But to be honest I want to grow old and I've had so many situations were I really felt so stressed for many weeks that I at one point decided to just let it go and get my next "thing" somewhere else or in another country were there is good service.
And yes that's REALLY bad.
But man does it feel good
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Oh I agree on that 100%
But to be honest I want to grow old and I've had so many situations were I really felt so stressed for many weeks that I at one point decided to just let it go and get my next "thing" somewhere else or in another country were there is good service.
And yes that's REALLY bad.
But man does it feel good
I'm in the same boat as well - I'd much rather order from the US, wait a bit longer and even pay the import duties than deal with many European companies. The savings implied in lower blood pressure is well worth the hassle, and even the prices are usually lower than in Europe, especially at today's exchange rate.
Fortunately a friend of mine is getting married in NYC in September, so it's yet another expensive trip to B&H
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I'm in the same boat as well - I'd much rather order from the US, wait a bit longer and even pay the import duties than deal with many European companies. The savings implied in lower blood pressure is well worth the hassle, and even the prices are usually lower than in Europe, especially at today's exchange rate.
Fortunately a friend of mine is getting married in NYC in September, so it's yet another expensive trip to B&H
NYC is still on my to visit list and B&H is one of the reasons
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NYC is still on my to visit list and B&H is one of the reasons
South Beach isn't a bad place to visit either :-).
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leica, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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South Beach isn't a bad place to visit either :-).
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leica, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
I wish But I don't think I could find a good home for my Harley to finance the MFDB
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I wish But I don't think I could find a good home for my Harley to finance the MFDB
Don't forget that we have an office in Atlanta too!!
Chris Lawery ()
__________________
Sales Manager, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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I thought I visited you when I was in Miami ?
Correct ?
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Maybe this will fall the wrong way but don't take it like that.
As I see in the first post the back was lost in transport at customs, NOT when with phase one.
To be honest I find it great service they get you a new back.
I've lost something during transport a while ago and could wait until it was recovered, which took nearly 2 months.
Than again, this is a much more expensive item of course.
But they could also have said, please inform your insurance company.
So although the back is not as pristine as what you had I think it's already great service they replaced it for you and not let you wait.
When there's such a good service I think they will also respond to your question on the scratch.
Especially now the rest seems to work great.
He also stated that he returned his back to the dealer and not tried to send it directly to Denmark. If his dealer loses his equipment and replaces it by something that's inferior I would be very very p___d. So your comment on their service is very unfair to Medvid.
Kind Regards,
Patrik
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@feppe,
What's wrong with my attitude ?
I'm a really relaxed customer, I know about the POOR POOR customer support from the European companies, especially in the Netherlands it's been getting worse by the year up to a point that I'm almost surprised if company calls back, answers emails or gives you the right answer
Here I do agree with you 100%. If you need help you have to wait. Maybe Doug and Clawery are one in a kind dealers but they are in USA.
For instance it's easier and much much faster for me to mail order specialty items directly from China than from the local dealer. Local dealer is at sleep and the Chinese guy is busy at caring for his customers. Some may wonder now that what if something goes wrong... Well let me put it this way I'll be lone standing with my issues anyway.
Kind Regards,
Patrik
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Here I do agree with you 100%. If you need help you have to wait. Maybe Doug and Clawery are one in a kind dealers but they are in USA.
For instance it's easier and much much faster for me to mail order specialty items directly from China than from the local dealer. Local dealer is at sleep and the Chinese guy is busy at caring for his customers. Some may wonder now that what if something goes wrong... Well let me put it this way I'll be lone standing with my issues anyway.
Kind Regards,
Patrik
Deleted
DesW
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SHORT UPDATE:
Justice urges me to post here that PO has sent me a second replacement for my lost (?) P30 digital back.
It's an adequate replacement in terms of wear-out, looks, etc.
And it is P30+
So after these uncertain months I have a free upgrade.
I appreciate it from PO.
Case closed.
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I'm glad it finally worked out, but it's too bad you had to go through the agony for so long.
Eric