Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: Ken R on July 23, 2009, 02:11:13 am
-
Hi, I though about selling my 1Ds mark III while it held some of its value and get a 5D mk2 (to go alongside my original 5D which I still have) but didnt. Seems people are selling them for $4800-$5000 (kinda strange when a new 1D mark III is $4,000 with half the pixels) which is ok. But the 1Ds is such a joy to use that I decided not to sell it. It has helped me produce high quality images time and time again under all kinds of light and environments!
Nowadays the 5D mark II seems to get all the glory while the 1Ds mark III keeps working in the shadows out of the spotlight. I guess that is the life of a DSLR in this day and age after a few years after being introduced to the world ( 2 years this august ). Yes, the 1Ds lacks the video. But, it has absolutely one of the best DSLR viewfinders ever made. It has great durability and great battery performance. Its a joy to hold (its a bit on the heavy side of things but balances very well with primes and short zooms) with a quality feel and responsiveness that the 5D lacks (something the Nikon D700 does have!). Is this the last great DSLR I will ever buy? Is this as much as I will ever need? Well, I cant seem to need or want better files (even though I am an advertising and architectural photographer). A Canon 14-24mm lens like the Nikon would be nice though.
My journey in photography has been quite long (at least to me!). My first SLR was a hand-me-down Konica (way back in the late 80's), the I got a new Nikon FM2n (still have that camera), the a progression through Nikon AF SLR's, first a N6006 and then a N90s (very good camera). A lot of years passed (before I became a professional). I then got my first DSLR! A FUji S2 pro. Wow, I now could use all my Nikon glass which I had accumulated over the years. (no f2.8 zooms though, didnt have the money). I started working with the Fuji and it delivered. Time and time again even in somewhat poor light (or what I though was poor!). Then came Canon.
I tried a 10d and man it was much faster and produced cleaner images (no more waiting a long time to view images on the rear lcd while the camera was writing to card!) than the fuji. Then came the 1D mark II, wow, very fast, clean files, pro body. I believe that singlehandedly, the 1D mark II is the camera that caused the massive Nikon to Canon switch years ago and much of those users have stayed with Canon still even though Nikon has matched or even exceeded in some cases Canon's offerings. As if the 1D mark II was not enough out came the 5D! Wow Finally, after all these years I have a DSLR that is kinda like my FM2n, yes not as compact. But full frame again! wow. A 50mm is a 50mm again! The files were terrific (still are) and life was good. A few years go by and the 1Ds mark III shows up. I can still remember that day. The black sexy box (smaller than I though it would be though, $7500 all in those few cubic inches?? ahhh). I charged up the batteries, put on the 50mm and looked through the viewfinder and WOW. Took a few images, opened them up in photoshop..and WOW. And I though the 5D was amazing! The 1Ds mark III handled the highlights better (even in jpg files which handle a surprising ammount of manipulation) the detail, that "3d" look that is talked about, everything there. Plus all the "little" things like the menu and the focus adjustment, highlight priority, great high iso performance, awesome viewfinder, great battery, etc etc.
I just cant seem to let it go...
-
I just cant seem to let it go...
Wow!
Rob C
-
Hi, I though about selling my 1Ds mark III while it held some of its value and get a 5D mk2 (to go alongside my original 5D which I still have) but didnt.
I just cant seem to let it go...
I guess that video would be the only rationnal reason why you might to downgrade, other than that your 1ds3 is a much better camera and I would totally keep it as well if I were in your situation.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Maybe slightly off-topic: This reminds me of a conversation I once had with an engineer on a construction site. I was so used to seeing these guys using $10k Panasonic Toughbooks that when he pulled out a bottom-of-the-range Dell, probably retailing at $400 I was amazed. But, as he pointed out, it did everything the Toughbook did, and yet he could trash 25 of these for the price of a new Toughbook. So it is with the 'giants' like the 1Ds Mk III and D3x - wonderful cameras, pretty much as good as they get these days for a full-frame 35mm size sensor - but for 99% of people out there, their smaller siblings - the 5D MkII and D700x (when it appears) do everything (and more) they could ask for. Hell, even my poorly weathersealed 5D came back from a good soaking in the sea and the occasional drop onto concrete .
-
Maybe slightly off-topic: This reminds me of a conversation I once had with an engineer on a construction site. I was so used to seeing these guys using $10k Panasonic Toughbooks that when he pulled out a bottom-of-the-range Dell, probably retailing at $400 I was amazed. But, as he pointed out, it did everything the Toughbook did, and yet he could trash 25 of these for the price of a new Toughbook. So it is with the 'giants' like the 1Ds Mk III and D3x - wonderful cameras, pretty much as good as they get these days for a full-frame 35mm size sensor - but for 99% of people out there, their smaller siblings - the 5D MkII and D700x (when it appears) do everything (and more) they could ask for. Hell, even my poorly weathersealed 5D came back from a good soaking in the sea and the occasional drop onto concrete .
I sold my 1DsMk3 and just kept my 5DII. Why ? Because I didn't see a reason to keep the 1 camera. So in the End I still got around 4400EURs for the camera. I'm sure when a new 1DsMk4 comes out later this year, or early next year it will be down to around 3000 ( the old one), or even more if the new One is around 6-7k instead of 8-9. My 5DII works absolutly fine. I haven't head any problems so far. I used it in raind and recently here in Death Valley by 130+ without any problems. The main reason, however is that I did not want to carry around a heavy 1Ds, besides a medium format or large format camera. Here I think the 5DII shines. It is small light and still offeres one of best possible image quality.
-
I sold my 1DsMk3 and just kept my 5DII. Why ? Because I didn't see a reason to keep the 1 camera. So in the End I still got around 4400EURs for the camera. I'm sure when a new 1DsMk4 comes out later this year, or early next year it will be down to around 3000 ( the old one), or even more if the new One is around 6-7k instead of 8-9. My 5DII works absolutly fine. I haven't head any problems so far. I used it in raind and recently here in Death Valley by 130+ without any problems. The main reason, however is that I did not want to carry around a heavy 1Ds, besides a medium format or large format camera. Here I think the 5DII shines. It is small light and still offeres one of best possible image quality.
Isn't the 1 series normally on a 3 year cycle, meaning fall of 2010 for the 1ds IV?
-
I picked up a 5dII for the first time last weekend. I did not shoot with it, It felt like a toy. I'm sure it is capable of quality work, but it does not feel like a professional tool. Twice this year I've had to stand in the pouring rain shooting with the 1DsmkIII, that alone is reason enough to have a smkIII and not a 5D.
Kevin
-
I picked up a 5dII for the first time last weekend. I did not shoot with it, It felt like a toy. I'm sure it is capable of quality work, but it does not feel like a professional tool. Twice this year I've had to stand in the pouring rain shooting with the 1DsmkIII, that alone is reason enough to have a smkIII and not a 5D.
Kevin
It's a testimony then as to how well these 'toy' cameras are built by just how many people around the world (especially the non-western-world) are using them to make a living - and not just in the dry, I'm sure.
-
It's a testimony then as to how well these 'toy' cameras are built by just how many people around the world (especially the non-western-world) are using them to make a living - and not just in the dry, I'm sure.
Yes, you can obviously. In fact I made my living with the "lowly" S2pro for a while. Careful technique and really producing what's in front of the lens (subject, context, light etc) is really of upmost importance when making quality images regardless of the camera. Guess what, my S2 eventually got the "black death" syndrome and died. Thank god it never happened on a job. But I sure was taking chances. (had no money for a second body, heck I was trying to make money!). Most cameras will do fine if you are careful with them even in bad weather. I have a cheap Olympus e-410 that has survived extremely humid rainforest hikes and sub zero temperatures combined with high winds and snow high up on a ridge above 13k feet on the Colorado Rockies (I was extremely careful and really took less images than I wanted to) As they say the best camera is the one you have with you...
BUT... the feel of a 1 series is hard to beat. The way it responds, eye, brain, finger, shutter, click...to capture the precise moment in a shoot. nice. Of course, for just landscapes that doesnt matter much. (the weather resistance and reliability does however)
Do I need all the 1 series has to offer all the time? Absolutely not. But its there in those moments when I do. I remember on shoot specifically. I was hired to shoot all day on a film for tv production for several coca cola commercials. The day was dreadful. Rained almost all day and the production had tarps on frames all over the place to protect their expensive ARRI camera. Guess what those things leaked on me more than once. In the middle of scenes I had to shoot. I couldnt stop, I had to keep going! I protected my camera as much as I could but still it got a tad wet. Never a problem. That was a year ago and have shot thousands more frames with zero issues.
Do I really think Canon needs to offer a compact 1 series body? Absolutely! It would be the perfect camera for studio and nature/travel. Sadly the 5D isnt it. Its close. In fact, Canon can leave all the internals intact as they are and just put them inside a much better body.
-
I did get a 5D II, mostly for the low light/high ISO capability, and for that it is a good stop or two better than the 1Ds III. This also lets me avoid repeatedly swapping lenses in dusty conditions; I keep a short/normal zoom on the 1Ds III and the 70-200 f:2.8 on the 5D II.
But the 1Ds III definitely handles nicer. I do appreciate the brick-solid build, the confidence to ignore even quite heavy rain when using it outdoors. And despite all the gnashing of teeth I've always found its autofocus plenty good enough for me, and far better than the 5D II.
-
I tried a 1DsIII and own a 5DII, and also had the impression that the two cameras are not really identical in image quality. The 5DII does feel like it has more DR, I get almost no blown highlights. Maybe the 1DsIII has a hidden setting which does the same?
The finder is really better on the 1DsIII, that much is sure
And, I don't think anyone who went out to buy a 5DII really expected it to focus anyway, so whatever it actually manages to do comes as a pleasant surprise
Edmund
I did get a 5D II, mostly for the low light/high ISO capability, and for that it is a good stop or two better than the 1Ds III. This also lets me avoid repeatedly swapping lenses in dusty conditions; I keep a short/normal zoom on the 1Ds III and the 70-200 f:2.8 on the 5D II.
But the 1Ds III definitely handles nicer. I do appreciate the brick-solid build, the confidence to ignore even quite heavy rain when using it outdoors. And despite all the gnashing of teeth I've always found its autofocus plenty good enough for me, and far better than the 5D II.
-
Deleted. Sorry for wasting bandwidth.
MT
-
Me I sold mine as for the time being I can get by with my 5d mk 11. I seriosily wonder how long it can hold it's price as Honk Kong Canon just lowered there prices on the 1d series. If I needed the camera keh is seems to ahver alarge stock of used ids mk111 s . I wish us all luck in this constantly upgrading world me I cannot afford the 1 grand hit a 1ds type camera takes the second a new 1ds type camera is announced. David
-
I tried a 1DsIII and own a 5DII, and also had the impression that the two cameras are not really identical in image quality. The 5DII does feel like it has more DR, I get almost no blown highlights. Maybe the 1DsIII has a hidden setting which does the same?
The finder is really better on the 1DsIII, that much is sure
And, I don't think anyone who went out to buy a 5DII really expected it to focus anyway, so whatever it actually manages to do comes as a pleasant surprise
Edmund
i own both the 5d2 and the 1ds3 and my experience is different than yours with respect to highlights: i find that the ds3 has the edge and given the difference in the two cameras metering systems, that is what i would expect. i also have not had issues with respect to the 5d2 focusing. i often use both cameras on a shoot and under most circumstances i am hardpressed to tell the finished output apart.
regards
-
I sold my 1DsMk3 and kept my 5DII , I prefer the size of the 5D , I dont need a grip
-
I sold my 1DsMk3 and kept my 5DII , I prefer the size of the 5D , I dont need a grip
I dont own a 5D MKII - but my 5D gathers dust as I LOVE using the 1DS MK3.
-
I dont own a 5D MKII - but my 5D gathers dust as I LOVE using the 1DS MK3.
Ditto, I don't remember the last time I put a card in the 5d and shot frames, the 1DsMKIII and the 450d get all the work these days.
-
I had the 1Ds3 and 5D2 side by side for some months. Then sold the 1Ds3 for $6300 before the prices dropped. Shooting the same subjects at the same time and looking at 100% in DPP, the 5D2 files are sharper. As long as they are both in focus, you would never see a difference in print or anywhere else. So if you get a 5D2 which focus properly with your lenses, it's a very good camera and a very good value, IMO. And the lighter weight is fantastic (especially since you can always ad weight when necessary with the BG-E6 grip.)
D.R. seems about the same to me - though if I had to choose the 5D2 does seem slightly better.
-
Okay, this is my story. I am retired and photography is about all I do now. I have both the 1Ds MkIII and the 5D MkII. As of now, I don't even look at the 1Ds MkIII, I do not get better images, plus with the 5D MkII, I get video. One package that does it all.
I also have the Nikon D700, D3 and D3x and most of the ED lenses and L lenses. I could used anything I want, but I like the 5D Mk II. I am not a Nikon or Canon person, I just like to used the best for me. That why I used the wide angle Nikon lenses on the 5D Mk II.
-
Lester, why don't you make somene here very happy and resell that D3x? I mean that literally, if you don't use it.
Edmund
Okay, this is my story. I am retired and photography is about all I do now. I have both the 1Ds MkIII and the 5D MkII. As of now, I don't even look at the 1Ds MkIII, I do not get better images, plus with the 5D MkII, I get video. One package that does it all.
I also have the Nikon D700, D3 and D3x and most of the ED lenses and L lenses. I could used anything I want, but I like the 5D Mk II. I am not a Nikon or Canon person, I just like to used the best for me. That why I used the wide angle Nikon lenses on the 5D Mk II.
-
How do you fit Nikon W/A lenses on the Canon mount?
-
Lester, why don't you make somene here very happy and resell that D3x? I mean that literally, if you don't use it.
Edmund
Edmund, the reason I will not sell the D3x is because, it works with my Nikon 8mm f/2.8 lens, which is a fisheye and it will not work with a adapter on the Canon, it does but the edge is out of focus. With the D3x, it is sharp at f/11 all the way to the edge. It sound stupid but I had that Nikon 8mm for over 30+ years and it is sharp.
MarkDS, just go to ebay and you could get a Nikon adapter for the Canon camera, cheap. To me, I think that Nikon wide angle lenses are sharper then the Canon
-
Thanks for the tip Lester.
-
Thanks for the tip Lester.
MarkDS, one of my favorite Nikon lens is the 17mm-35mm f/2.8D zoom, that lens is much sharper at the edge then the Canon 17mm-35mm f/2.8L or the 16mm-35mm f/2.8L. I do have all 3 and I know, from my test. Even the manual Nikon lens are sharper then the Canon newer auto lenses. But after 35mm, everything is about the same.
-
Do you know how the Nikon 17-35 compares with the Canon f/4 L 17~40 mm lens? That's the one I have, and I must say that the edge sharpness is NOT at all impressive, but about 3/4 or more of the image area is very well defined.
-
Do you know how the Nikon 17-35 compares with the Canon f/4 L 17~40 mm lens? That's the one I have, and I must say that the edge sharpness is NOT at all impressive, but about 3/4 or more of the image area is very well defined.
I did this test a long time ago, Canon 16-35, 17-40, Nikon 17-35 and a Sigma 15-30 on 1DsMKII body.
http://www.pbase.com/infocusinc/wide_zoom_test (http://www.pbase.com/infocusinc/wide_zoom_test)
-
Thanks, I had a look at that. I think it's non-determinative from what I can see on my display. This is not a comment on your testing, but rather about the technological limits of what one can judge from an on-display JPEG at monitor resolution when it comes to rather fine differences between one lens or the other. I think the best way of detecting differences at this level is to buy lenses from a dealer who takes back what we don't like, and do our own carefully controlled tests like you did, print them at the largest size we would normally print and keep the lens we like best. This also deals with sample variability which can be quite substantial.
-
Do you know how the Nikon 17-35 compares with the Canon f/4 L 17~40 mm lens? That's the one I have, and I must say that the edge sharpness is NOT at all impressive, but about 3/4 or more of the image area is very well defined.
I do not have the Canon f/4, but my Nikon 17-35 f/2.8D is very sharp at 17mm, when I blow it up to 1:1 the edge hold up and is sharp. It is a different world, compare to the Canon. It is a older lenses and you could get it at a good buy from ebay. Just make sure that when you buy, go threw paypal. I have over 200+ transaction and I only have one problem and paypal take care of it.
-
I'd never buy a lens on eBay unless the seller is prepared to take it back if I'm not fully satisfied with it. Your experience may be very good doing this, but it can be risky.
-
Thanks, I had a look at that. I think it's non-determinative from what I can see on my display. This is not a comment on your testing, but rather about the technological limits of what one can judge from an on-display JPEG at monitor resolution when it comes to rather fine differences between one lens or the other. I think the best way of detecting differences at this level is to buy lenses from a dealer who takes back what we don't like, and do our own carefully controlled tests like you did, print them at the largest size we would normally print and keep the lens we like best. This also deals with sample variability which can be quite substantial.
The full rez files were very close, throw a blanket over them all. I kept the 17-40, which I use mostly at 17 and stopped down to f10-f14. My biggest concern was edge ca, which is nicely fixed by both PTLens and Capture One 4. I l also have a very nice copy of the Sigma12-24 which I use a bunch at 12-17mm and its very sharp.
My needs have changed but if I was still shooting lots of small space interiors I would get the Canon 17 TS in a heartbeat.
All that said, I'm really quite happy with the 17-40.....
-
I have the 1Ds3 (& 1D3) that I use for weddings and outdoor, off-road motor sports. I've also used the 5D2, which I like and which delivers IQ very much like the 1Ds3, as one would expect given that the chip is essentially the same. However, reliability is of extreme importance to me so I have not purchased the 5D2. The cost is really not an issue since I depreciate that anyway. The 1D series have never let me down even in absolutely extreme conditions and hard knocks (ever have your camera hit by an airborne motorcycle?) I think the 1Ds3 is one of Canon's engineering triumphs.
Stu
-
I love my 1DsIII very much, once i bought it i didn't use my 5D 1 and 1DsII, even my 1DIII has been used for sports only, the only time i don't use 1DsIII is when i bought H3DII-39, with all that i will never look at 5D mkII, it will not impress me over 1DsIII or H3DII for sure.
-
I have 1ds3 here and 5d2 doesn't tempt me at all. When 1ds4 comes around and if it has significant advantage over 1ds3 (which I am sure it would - otherwise who would upgrade?) then I'd get 1ds4 keeping 1ds3 as a backup. Video feature which I am sure will be in 1ds4 will not matter to me though. It needs to have better sensor / IQ etc to appeal as a worthwhile upgrade.
Enjoy your 1ds3
-
Hi, I am still enjoying my 1Ds 3!
I too wonder about the 1Ds 4, wow, judging from the 7D it probably will be amazing.
Regarding the 7D, I am getting one, mainly for the video capabilities. More are more the line between stills and video is being blurred. Recently I shot a job that required some video of a hand infront of a green screen for some post-production work (there were some still product shots required too that were going to be composited later on). I had to rent a HD camera! ($500 for a camera package for one day). I am positive that with a 7D and my Canon lenses I could have done the job perfectly. (manual exposure control is critical since consistency is key)
I just sold my 5D mk1 and am waiting for the 7D to be in stock to order it. It will also serve as my back-up camera and my main travel camera. Makes much more sense than a 5D mk2 since the 7D has more video capabilities, better weatherproofing and much much better AF.
I doubt the 7D will match the 1Ds mk3 in image quality but it should be close enough, at least in low iso settings.
-
all i am interested in is image quality....so after getting the 5DII, i sold the 1dsIII as fast as possible....the 1ds has much better af, the body is weatherproof and all that....the 5DII is much smaller, lighter....and it has much better high iso and (most important for me) the DR at higher iso is in a different league.....i would say the 5DII has an extra 1.5 stops at 800iso....and less noise......i don't see either one having more detail at 100 and i do miss the larger finder of the ds....but like i said, i am interested in image quality so the 5DII wins for me...the video is purely extra....i could not care less what "professionals" use...i have the grip but actually almost never use it....not sure why i should make the camera bigger and heavier then necessary....
-
and it has much better high iso and (most important for me) the DR at higher iso is in a different league.....i would say the 5DII has an extra 1.5 stops at 800iso....
Have you done actual comparisons and printed them? Anything you can post to show the difference between these two cameras in this respect?
-
all i am interested in is image quality....so after getting the 5DII, i sold the 1dsIII as fast as possible....the 1ds has much better af, the body is weatherproof and all that....the 5DII is much smaller, lighter....and it has much better high iso and (most important for me) the DR at higher iso is in a different league.....i would say the 5DII has an extra 1.5 stops at 800iso....and less noise......i don't see either one having more detail at 100 and i do miss the larger finder of the ds....but like i said, i am interested in image quality so the 5DII wins for me...the video is purely extra....i could not care less what "professionals" use...i have the grip but actually almost never use it....not sure why i should make the camera bigger and heavier then necessary....
I love 1ds3 because of its battery life as I take it hiking all day, even though for landscape photography I only take very very few shots, less than 20 most of the time.So I don't mind that little bit of extra weight. Plus it's actually handy to have a heavy camera on tripod, I think? I feel comfortable with rains and snow. One night I got caught in the rain and the camera was pcouldn't careerfectly fine. I do have a rain proof camera bag as well as the good ol plastic bags I only shoot using iso 100 so I am not concerned about performance of iso's > 400. So yeah... I guess it depends on each individual and what they use their camera for. I am just curious to see what's in the bag for 1ds4. If it makes my life easier then it's worth the upgrade
-
all i am interested in is image quality....so after getting the 5DII, i sold the 1dsIII as fast as possible....the 1ds has much better af, the body is weatherproof and all that....the 5DII is much smaller, lighter....and it has much better high iso and (most important for me) the DR at higher iso is in a different league.....i would say the 5DII has an extra 1.5 stops at 800iso....and less noise......i don't see either one having more detail at 100 and i do miss the larger finder of the ds....but like i said, i am interested in image quality so the 5DII wins for me...the video is purely extra....i could not care less what "professionals" use...i have the grip but actually almost never use it....not sure why i should make the camera bigger and heavier then necessary....
I like the 5d2, it shoots a great still, pretty good video, etc. etc. I don't notice the viewfinder that much, but I completely love the 1ds3's. The focus on the 3's could be a little better, past 800 iso is a challange, though up to 640 I see no difference between that and 200 iso.
I think the 1ds3 produces amazing skintones, which is really the reason I keep them and since owning them I've shot about 50 medium format frames, 50 billion 1ds3 frames. It's that good, imo.
When the 5d2 came out I thought about selingl both of my 3's but at this point they're not going for that much used and they tether well with eos utility, so I thought I'd just keep them.
I guess in a way I could just carry 5d2's and be done with it but the 1d3's are paid for I know all the buttons and switches and I only use my 5d2 for video anyway, so . . . today I'll keep them.
JR