Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 21, 2009, 10:13:54 pm

Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 21, 2009, 10:13:54 pm
Hello,  I am looking for some insight and assistance. I am going to upgrade my al tripod to a carbon fiber one. Had a chance to visit B&H recently and looked at the Gitzo GT 2531EX three section unit. I wanted to check out ball heads to compare the Markins M10, RRS BH55, Kirk BH1, Acratech Ultimate and Arca Swiss Z1. Believe it or not they did not have any of these available for examination on display, only the Gitzos. The Gitzo heads I looked at appear substantial but I wanted to make some hands on comparisons.
My current equipment is a Manfrotto 3221 tripod with a Bogen 3047 head which has served me well since purchasing them in 1999. I'm still shooting film with my Nikon F5 and will be learning to use my Toyo 4X5 field camera. Obviously I have been reviewing info on the above equipment but physically handling each was not to be. Feedback on ball heads would be appreciated also.
With respect to the 2531 tripod, I would like to know if anyone has one and your take on it. I like the idea that you can lock the legs at any position but I'm wondering if no detents for initial set up has been a problem. Also, has there been any problem with the large locking lever for each leg at the top of the tripod. Thanks for any help you can provide. Best of luck in your shooting. Joe Dragon
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: spotmeter on July 21, 2009, 11:29:57 pm
Quote from: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography
Hello,  I am looking for some insight and assistance. I am going to upgrade my al tripod to a carbon fiber one. Had a chance to visit B&H recently and looked at the Gitzo GT 2531EX three section unit. I wanted to check out ball heads to compare the Markins M10, RRS BH55, Kirk BH1, Acratech Ultimate and Arca Swiss Z1. Believe it or not they did not have any of these available for examination on display, only the Gitzos. The Gitzo heads I looked at appear substantial but I wanted to make some hands on comparisons.
My current equipment is a Manfrotto 3221 tripod with a Bogen 3047 head which has served me well since purchasing them in 1999. I'm still shooting film with my Nikon F5 and will be learning to use my Toyo 4X5 field camera. Obviously I have been reviewing info on the above equipment but physically handling each was not to be. Feedback on ball heads would be appreciated also.
With respect to the 2531 tripod, I would like to know if anyone has one and your take on it. I like the idea that you can lock the legs at any position but I'm wondering if no detents for initial set up has been a problem. Also, has there been any problem with the large locking lever for each leg at the top of the tripod. Thanks for any help you can provide. Best of luck in your shooting. Joe Dragon

I recommend you avoid any tripod with a center column. Too much vibration. Also, I recommend the RRS BH55 with a lever clamp. Avoid the screw clamp. I lost a camera with that one.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: wolfnowl on July 22, 2009, 02:22:14 am
Quote from: spotmeter
I recommend you avoid any tripod with a center column.

Yes...  If you raise the center column on your tripod you've turned it into a monopod. Weight, max. height, min. height, load capacity and stored length can all be factors to consider depending on your use of it.


Mike.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: francois on July 22, 2009, 06:23:06 am
Another vote for the RRS BH-55 ballhead. It's a big and heavy ballhead but it works very well. The lever clamp is a must have, really! The Acratech Ultimate BH is a very light and simple design. I use one as a backup or when hiking in the mountains. It's not as convenient as others such as the BH-55 or the Arca Swiss.

Regarding the tripod, as Mike & Spotmeter said above, avoid center columns. If your tripod has one, then don't be lazy and extend the legs only, use the center column for very fine corrections.
I have no personal experience with the Gitzo 2531 model but I own a couple of other Gitzos (smaller and larger) and never had any problem.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: JeffKohn on July 22, 2009, 10:46:30 am
I use a Gitzo 2-series (2531 I believe) for longer hikes when I don't want to carry a bigger/heavier tripod. I can't say that I'm all that pleased with it. Gitzo decided that they would get more height out of shorter legs by narrowing the default angle of leg spread. While this does give you a taller tripod in a small/light package, it seriously compromises stability (which is the whole point of a good tripod). You have to be very careful to adjust the legs so the tripod is as level as possible or there's a very real risk of it falling over, especially if there's any wind. It's already happened to me one. I can honestly say I regret selling my Velbon 630 to get the Gitzo 2531. The Velbon was a better tripod, even if it was just a hair heavier.

Unless size and weight are the critical factors for you, I strongly suggest moving up to the Gitzo 3-series. Even the 4-section 3-series will be much more stable and robust than the 2531.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: John Collins on July 22, 2009, 11:08:41 am
Unless weight is a very high priority, get a tripod that is a bit larger than you think you'll need. It wouldn't make everyone happy but I use a 5 series Gitzo CF for everything (I got it for a camera, lens & head combination that weighs about 16.5 pounds). Even though it's heavy there are no worries about stability. Make this another vote for the BH55 and a 3 series CF tripod.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 22, 2009, 05:34:55 pm
Quote from: John Collins
Unless weight is a very high priority, get a tripod that is a bit larger than you think you'll need. It wouldn't make everyone happy but I use a 5 series Gitzo CF for everything (I got it for a camera, lens & head combination that weighs about 16.5 pounds).

Same thing here, most of my recent shooting has been with a Gitzo 5531s and BH-55. A heavy combo for sure, but if you like tack sharp on a high resolution body, with possible pano applications with heavy lenses, then I can totally recommend this.

Overall Gitzo tripods are very good at what a tripod should be doing: make you forget that it is there and just work day in day out. The only problems I have had is with legs freeze at very low temperature following cycles of usage at varying temperatures, but I guess that any tripod would (it is more a photographer's issue).

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: JeffKohn on July 22, 2009, 06:56:24 pm
Bernard have you ever considered/tried a geared head? They're so much better than ballheads for landscape work IMHO. I have a Bogen/Manfrotto 405 on my big Dutch Hill tripod, and an Arca C1 Cube on my Gitzo 3541XLS. Both are a joy to use when making small adjustments for precise composition. A ballhead is downright crude in comparison.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Geoff Wittig on July 22, 2009, 07:43:20 pm
Quote from: JeffKohn
Bernard have you ever considered/tried a geared head? They're so much better than ballheads for landscape work IMHO. I have a Bogen/Manfrotto 405 on my big Dutch Hill tripod, and an Arca C1 Cube on my Gitzo 3541XLS. Both are a joy to use when making small adjustments for precise composition. A ballhead is downright crude in comparison.


No doubt correct, but the Arca C1 Cube tripod head is an absolutely absurd $1,699 at B&H. If money is absolutely no object, then feel free to pull out the plastic and fire away. To me that's just crazy money.

I've used Kirk's BH-1 head with complete satisfaction for about 10 years. It's about $100 cheaper than Really Right Stuff's BH-55, albeit not quite as nice.

I'd also put in a plug for Velbon's "neo carmagne" 830 carbon fiber tripod, if you're tall. At $599 (U.S.) it's a couple hundred dollars cheaper than Gitzo's equivalent. Extending the legs alone puts the head platform at about 76" from the ground, which is a godsend if you're over 6' tall and ever work on a slope. I took a hacksaw to the center column and now the tripod goes nearly to ground level. The leg locks are distinctly more robust and easily handled than Gitzo's, and they're very easy to disassemble for cleaning. Finally, Velbon sent me a lower leg section for less than $50 when I broke it falling 10' onto sharp rocks in icy conditions. Took me about 5 minutes to replace it.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: JeffKohn on July 22, 2009, 10:13:48 pm
Quote from: Geoff Wittig
No doubt correct, but the Arca C1 Cube tripod head is an absolutely absurd $1,699 at B&H. If money is absolutely no object, then feel free to pull out the plastic and fire away. To me that's just crazy money.

I've used Kirk's BH-1 head with complete satisfaction for about 10 years. It's about $100 cheaper than Really Right Stuff's BH-55, albeit not quite as nice.
Yes, the C1 is expensive. The Bogen/Manfrotto geared heads are quite competitive with the popular ballheads though, and still far more precise. I just got sick and tired of not being able to make a slight vertical adjustment to my composition without screwing up the level horizon, or vice-versa.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: stever on July 23, 2009, 12:21:04 am
i agree, the more experience i have with ball heads (and i now have accumulated a substantial investment in a variety of them), the less i like them for most purposes

i greatly prefer something like the 4th Generation Mongoose gimbal that i recently purchased - needs an L-bracket and nodal slide for short-lens applications and i may have to add a leveling head, but it's about the same weight as a good ball head, has independant horizontal and vertical movement and locks, and is wonderful with long lenses.  Not as precise as a cube, but much more versatile
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 23, 2009, 01:53:47 am
Quote from: JeffKohn
Bernard have you ever considered/tried a geared head? They're so much better than ballheads for landscape work IMHO. I have a Bogen/Manfrotto 405 on my big Dutch Hill tripod, and an Arca C1 Cube on my Gitzo 3541XLS. Both are a joy to use when making small adjustments for precise composition. A ballhead is downright crude in comparison.

Jeff,

Yes, I have considered the Cube, but considering that 90% of my shooting is done with a pano head anyway, I have not yet decided to invest that kind of money. It is somewhere on my list of want items, but has not made it yet to the "need item" section.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: MarkL on July 23, 2009, 07:39:05 am
I'm not well up on gitzo's new models (who on earth names them!?) but have a gitzo 2 series and 3 series. For a reasonable size slr and especially a light 4x5 (which get affected by wind) I would def go for the 3 series gitzo, it is substantially more stable. If you are usuing lenses 200mm or more on the F5 even more reason to move up.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 27, 2009, 12:01:07 am
Quote from: spotmeter
I recommend you avoid any tripod with a center column. Too much vibration. Also, I recommend the RRS BH55 with a lever clamp. Avoid the screw clamp. I lost a camera with that one.
Thanks for responding. I agree re center column and no intention of using same except in a short horizontal position where leg position can't gain side movement. Joe
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 27, 2009, 12:06:07 am
Quote from: wolfnowl
Yes...  If you raise the center column on your tripod you've turned it into a monopod. Weight, max. height, min. height, load capacity and stored length can all be factors to consider depending on your use of it.


Mike.
Thanks for the reply. Agree re ctr column. Joe
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Josh-H on July 27, 2009, 12:07:27 am
I am likewise not up on Gitzo's current model numbers and line-up. But I do own a Carbon Gitzo 8x 3 section tripod with a RRS Ball head and its the best combination I have yet tried for my style of work.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 27, 2009, 12:11:40 am
Quote from: francois
Another vote for the RRS BH-55 ballhead. It's a big and heavy ballhead but it works very well. The lever clamp is a must have, really! The Acratech Ultimate BH is a very light and simple design. I use one as a backup or when hiking in the mountains. It's not as convenient as others such as the BH-55 or the Arca Swiss.

Regarding the tripod, as Mike & Spotmeter said above, avoid center columns. If your tripod has one, then don't be lazy and extend the legs only, use the center column for very fine corrections.
I have no personal experience with the Gitzo 2531 model but I own a couple of other Gitzos (smaller and larger) and never had any problem.
Thanks for the reply. I have been leaning toward the BH-55. Re the tripod, trying to get feel for the lever locking system wherein there are no detents when setting it up. Joe
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 27, 2009, 12:13:09 am
Quote from: JeffKohn
I use a Gitzo 2-series (2531 I believe) for longer hikes when I don't want to carry a bigger/heavier tripod. I can't say that I'm all that pleased with it. Gitzo decided that they would get more height out of shorter legs by narrowing the default angle of leg spread. While this does give you a taller tripod in a small/light package, it seriously compromises stability (which is the whole point of a good tripod). You have to be very careful to adjust the legs so the tripod is as level as possible or there's a very real risk of it falling over, especially if there's any wind. It's already happened to me one. I can honestly say I regret selling my Velbon 630 to get the Gitzo 2531. The Velbon was a better tripod, even if it was just a hair heavier.

Unless size and weight are the critical factors for you, I strongly suggest moving up to the Gitzo 3-series. Even the 4-section 3-series will be much more stable and robust than the 2531.
Thnks for the reply. Will ck out your info. Joe
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 27, 2009, 12:14:30 am
Quote from: John Collins
Unless weight is a very high priority, get a tripod that is a bit larger than you think you'll need. It wouldn't make everyone happy but I use a 5 series Gitzo CF for everything (I got it for a camera, lens & head combination that weighs about 16.5 pounds). Even though it's heavy there are no worries about stability. Make this another vote for the BH55 and a 3 series CF tripod.
Thanks for the reply. Have been leaning toward the BH55. Joe
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 27, 2009, 12:16:05 am
Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Same thing here, most of my recent shooting has been with a Gitzo 5531s and BH-55. A heavy combo for sure, but if you like tack sharp on a high resolution body, with possible pano applications with heavy lenses, then I can totally recommend this.

Overall Gitzo tripods are very good at what a tripod should be doing: make you forget that it is there and just work day in day out. The only problems I have had is with legs freeze at very low temperature following cycles of usage at varying temperatures, but I guess that any tripod would (it is more a photographer's issue).

Cheers,
Bernard
Thanks for the reply. Have been leaning toward the BH55 and will look into the 5531 . Joe
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 27, 2009, 12:18:00 am
Quote from: John Collins
Unless weight is a very high priority, get a tripod that is a bit larger than you think you'll need. It wouldn't make everyone happy but I use a 5 series Gitzo CF for everything (I got it for a camera, lens & head combination that weighs about 16.5 pounds). Even though it's heavy there are no worries about stability. Make this another vote for the BH55 and a 3 series CF tripod.
Thanks for the reply. Been leaning toward the BH55 already. Still checking out tripods. Joe
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Joe Dragon Fine Art Photography on July 27, 2009, 12:18:45 am
Quote from: John Collins
Unless weight is a very high priority, get a tripod that is a bit larger than you think you'll need. It wouldn't make everyone happy but I use a 5 series Gitzo CF for everything (I got it for a camera, lens & head combination that weighs about 16.5 pounds). Even though it's heavy there are no worries about stability. Make this another vote for the BH55 and a 3 series CF tripod.
Thanks for the reply. Been leaning toward the BH55 already. Still checking out tripods. Joe
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Chris Pollock on August 01, 2009, 03:54:03 am
I recently bought a Velbon Neo Carmagne 840, and so far I'm quite happy with it. It's reasonably light, sturdy, and so tall that I usually don't have to extend the bottom section of the legs. At maximum height it's significantly taller than the great majority of photographers, even without extending the centre column. My only gripe is that it doesn't come with a case. I'll see if I can talk my wife into making one.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Geoff Wittig on August 01, 2009, 07:54:20 am
Quote from: Chris Pollock
I recently bought a Velbon Neo Carmagne 840, and so far I'm quite happy with it. It's reasonably light, sturdy, and so tall that I usually don't have to extend the bottom section of the legs. At maximum height it's significantly taller than the great majority of photographers, even without extending the centre column. My only gripe is that it doesn't come with a case. I'll see if I can talk my wife into making one.

Yep. Great tripod. I've done my best to destroy my 830, but after 5 years of abuse it's still going strong. I prefer the 830 because it only has 3 leg sections, so it's a bit more rigid when extended and there are fewer leg locks to wrestle with. On the other hand it's still pretty long when folded up; but then I find myself using it as a support when descending or climbing steep slopes.

One thing to watch out for- there's a screw on the tripod platform beneath the spring-loaded sliding switch that releases one of the legs to spread it out for ground-level shots. It's hidden when the legs are folded up. Over time vibration can cause it to start "backing out", and it'll foul the leg release, making it impossible to spread the leg out. Catch-22, when you can't spread the leg out it's almost impossible to reach the screw head. Happened to me out in the boondocks in the Badlands of South Dakota. It took me half a day to figure out how to use a bent large paper clip to slowly screw it back in far enough to get the leg lock released.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Peter McLennan on August 01, 2009, 02:53:51 pm
Quote from: BernardLanguillier
... considering that 90% of my shooting is done with a pano head ...
Bernard

Bernard, do you use the pano head version of the BH55?  Or just the plain vanilla version?

regards,
Peter

Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: madmanchan on August 01, 2009, 03:42:07 pm
I use a Gitzo 3540LS with a RRS BH-55 and lever release clamp -- love the combo. The 3540LS has a little screw which you can tighten to minimize the chances that the head will rotate off the base of the pod. Nice touch.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 01, 2009, 07:55:12 pm
Quote from: Peter McLennan
Bernard, do you use the pano head version of the BH55?  Or just the plain vanilla version?

regards,
Peter

Peter,

I have been using the PCL-1 pano version, but do have other RRS clamps that can be switched when needed. As of now I have never found the need to get rid of the PCL-1, it appears to be very stable and to sustain well the damages of time and of the pretty usage I sometimes do of my equipment.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: ErikKaffehr on August 02, 2009, 01:37:10 am
Hi,

Just a hint, there is  a "dovetail adapter" for the the RRS panohead. I have a BH40 with lever type clamp, and just click panohead into the clamp when needed. Having the panohead permanently mounted to the head would save both weight an money.
I also use a Gitzo (3541LS) and I'm probably getting a bigger head (like BH55) soon.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: Peter McLennan
Bernard, do you use the pano head version of the BH55?  Or just the plain vanilla version?

regards,
Peter
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: aaykay on August 02, 2009, 09:34:23 am
Quote from: madmanchan
I use a Gitzo 3540LS with a RRS BH-55 and lever release clamp -- love the combo. The 3540LS has a little screw which you can tighten to minimize the chances that the head will rotate off the base of the pod. Nice touch.

I have the 3540LS too and find its design to be very intelligently done.  Especially the folded length of just 21.7" and weight of 3.8lbs - remember this is a Series-3 systematic Gitzo (with all the associated stability related goodness that comes with it)  for such a low weight.

However, lately, I find myself using the 5540LS for all occasions.  With a high resolution body, nothing beats a series-5 systematic Gitzo !
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Peter McLennan on August 02, 2009, 01:06:31 pm
Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Peter,
I have been using the PCL-1 pano version, but do have other RRS clamps that can be switched when needed. As of now I have never found the need to get rid of the PCL-1, it appears to be very stable and to sustain well the damages of time and of the pretty usage I sometimes do of my equipment.
Cheers,
Bernard

Thanks, Bernard.  I'll be ordering a BH55 PCL to go on my series 5 Gitzo, then. I'm hard on gear, too.  

regards,

Peter

Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: wolfnowl on August 03, 2009, 02:17:45 am
Quote from: aaykay
However, lately, I find myself using the 5540LS for all occasions.  With a high resolution body, nothing beats a series-5 systematic Gitzo !

NB: The 5540LS has been discontinued, and replaced with the 5541LS.  Gitzo has made several such replacements...

Mike.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: BrianSmith on August 05, 2009, 11:13:33 am
For what it's worth, I was a Gitzo user for years but picked up an Induro Carbon Fiber tripod a few years back and it's the best tripod I've ever owned. Rock solid even extended to the max. I'd suggest you at least take a look at those. I also use a RSS 55 w/lever release.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: BradSmith on August 05, 2009, 04:29:43 pm
Quote from: BrianSmith
For what it's worth, I was a Gitzo user for years but picked up an Induro Carbon Fiber tripod a few years back and it's the best tripod I've ever owned. Rock solid even extended to the max. I'd suggest you at least take a look at those. I also use a RSS 55 w/lever release.

Regarding the Induro, which one?  And which Gitzo did it replace or did you feel it best compared to?

And what about other CF tripods that I'm seeing advertised?  Benro, Flashpoint, Feisol, Hakuba, Manfrotto?
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: DarkPenguin on August 05, 2009, 08:19:04 pm
Quote from: skeedracer
Regarding the Induro, which one?  And which Gitzo did it replace or did you feel it best compared to?

And what about other CF tripods that I'm seeing advertised?  Benro, Flashpoint, Feisol, Hakuba, Manfrotto?

I love my feisol.  When they upgraded the tripod they made a kit that I purchased for cheap.  I ended up with a better center column and a fixed plate.  Both fixed my only complaints with the original.  When I conanned one of the feet off Feisol sent me a replacement foot (actually a replacement set of 3) for free from the other side of the planet.  Love em.

Edit: Misspelled "kit" as "kid" which changed the meaning quite a bit.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: aaykay on August 07, 2009, 02:31:10 pm
Quote from: wolfnowl
NB: The 5540LS has been discontinued, and replaced with the 5541LS.  Gitzo has made several such replacements...

Mike.

Agreed.  With a different top-plate  and a hook underneath, being the difference between the 5540LS and 5541LS.  

I already replaced the top-plate of my 5540LS, with one from Kirk, with a hook beneath it.  Gitzo probably realized that they were leaving money on the table and quickly introduced their own version of Kirk's top plate.
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: Wayne Fox on August 07, 2009, 04:50:23 pm
Quote from: wolfnowl
Yes...  If you raise the center column on your tripod you've turned it into a monopod.
Mike.


Yes, but what if you don't raise it?  For portrait work, having the center column is extremely helpful, so I have been using the Induro C413.  When sharpness is an issue I leave the column down and locked very firmly in place making all adjustments with the legs.  When it isn't an issue and I need to quickly change camera height (portrait work) I use the column.

When locked down, it seems every bit as sturdy as my Gitzo that doesn't have a column, using a Hasselblad and now a PhaseOne system (with RRS BH-55 head).  Granted I haven't done any actual tests, but the images even with the p65+ back are very sharp.



Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: geesbert on August 10, 2009, 03:20:05 pm
I definitely second the thought that having a center column is helpful. i recently got a gitzo 3541xls and i am still waiting for the geared column to use it with my multiflex. so it is (or will be) a 4 section tripod with centre column, but with the column down and the thinnest legs in it is as stable as the ls-version without column. heavier though, but for those once or twice a year, where i need to go higher than eyelevel it is worth it.

for landscape or far away stuff it's alright to forego the column, but as soon as you try to frame something which is only a few metres away or less, it is such a hassle to raise or lower the camera by all three legs
Title: carbon fiber tripods
Post by: John Collins on August 10, 2009, 05:21:10 pm
A few factors play into the overall stability of a tripod. When I used view cameras, a center column was not missed - rise and fall made the necessary adjustments. Now that DSLR's are in the offing, a center column will be useful. The quality of the tripod has a marked impact on the stability of the camera. As I said in a previous post in this thread, I use a 5541 CF tripod which has worked well.  I have a 20lb sandbag that I hang from the hook when needed (wind, raised center column, etc.). There is no reason to avoid the use of a convenient center column, just make the necessary accommodations to insure stability.