Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: clawery on June 19, 2009, 04:56:03 pm
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Cambo will be releasing a new Tilt/ Swing adapter soon and I wanted to get some initial images of the prototype out for everyone to see. Pricing as well as date of availability will be following soon.
Attached are some images of the new Tilt/Swing Lensboard for Cambo Wide DS / RS / Compact.
The part is not yet anodised, so it looks a bit odd, so don’t mind about that.
The upper knob drives the Tilt (over 5 degrees forward and backwards both)
The sideplaced knob drives the Swing (over 5 degrees leftward and rightwards both)
A unique feature is the ability to use both movements simulteanously in any combination,
wihout need to rotate or remount an adapter.
The pivoting axles are both really close to lens, thus avoiding the image to drift out of the center when tilting, compared to some other systems.
Also, in comparison with the Hasselblad HTS system, our solution does NOT add any optical elements, degrading the image, and it does not effect the actual focal length…
The mechanism has a certain thickness, so that it allows the 47XL Digitar to be operated.
It will also host the Schneider 58,60,72,80,90,100,120 and 150.
But also available for Rodenstock 28HR,35HR,40HR,45,55,70HR,90HR.
Each of these lenspanels will be an optional Tilt-Swing version, apart from the original non TS version.
Technically it is way more precise to incorporate the mechanism as one unit with the lens, which also allows for optimised alignment.
Also this construction allows for the minimal thickness to allow for relatively shorter focal lengths.
Cambo will also offer to retrofit existing lenspanels into T/S version.
Chris Lawery(e-mail Me)
__________________
Sales Manager, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
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[attachment=14655:WideTS_01.jpg]
[attachment=14656:WideTS_04m.jpg]
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The mechanism has a certain thickness, so that it allows the 47XL Digitar to be operated.
It will also host the Schneider 58,60,72,80,90,100,120 and 150.
But also available for Rodenstock 28HR,35HR,40HR,45,55,70HR,90HR.
Very interesting. Too bad it doesn't work on the 35XL, m favorite lens. Sounds like you will need one for each lens, is that correct?
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Very interesting. Too bad it doesn't work on the 35XL, m favorite lens. Sounds like you will need one for each lens, is that correct?
I believe that is correct, but hope to have all the details soon. I wish it would work on the 35mm... that is a very sweet lens!
Chris Lawery(e-mail Me) (http://mailto:chris@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Sales Manager, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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I keep wondering why you would need tilt on such short lenses?
And it makes me nervous being forced to remount a perfectly adjusted lens...
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Well, the Silvestri's Bicam has tilt movments... it can work with the 35, and it doesn't need a special mount for each lens, just a baionett and you have a very good tool... Oh, and it costs less then cambo...
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Well, the Silvestri's Bicam has tilt movments... it can work with the 35, and it doesn't need a special mount for each lens, just a baionett and you have a very good tool... Oh, and it costs less then cambo...
I have never seen the Silvestri in person, but a user I know thought it was so poorly made he returned it...
As for limited lens compatibility, that is pretty common due to IC limitations. Anyway, I would be very happy to have a 47 set up that way with everything else in normal mounts...
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Great! Glad to see Cambo is adding useful parts to the system. Makes me glad I bought the RS (in addition to that it works quite well now).
Speaking of parts, this is the first time I've seen the leveling base with accessory mount as well.
Is anyone out there using the accessory mount and what are you attaching to the "spigot mount for adding useful accessories" as Cambo calls it?
Love to hear others uses (compendium/shade, etc?) if anyone has this yet.
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Well, the Silvestri's Bicam has tilt movments... it can work with the 35, and it doesn't need a special mount for each lens, just a baionett and you have a very good tool... Oh, and it costs less then cambo...
Sorry Michele,
Incorrect, I think. The bicam can mount the 35xl only in helical for rear shift (+/- 17mm), with stitching back, and rise fall (+/-17mm) built into the body This is also true for the wider lenses, and the 38SA I use. It [35xl] does not work on the bellows, which permits the tilt and swing. A 47 is about the widest you can (comfortably) use on the bellows, but I think the new Rodie 40 might work as well. Each lens requires a suitable bayonet mount, although you probably could share some between lenses if you were desperate - they're not that expensive!
I'm fairly shocked that Cambo decided on a solution that you require per lens! They already have rather high mounting costs, a fact that put me off buying one in the first place, hence the Bicam.
@Jack - I returned a Flexicam, since it wasn't designed to be used with a 35 to allow stitching. I've found the design and engineering of the Bicam to be very, very good. OK, it's not an Alpa (or likewise), but doesn't have that pricetag either !
Hope this helps - and yes, I would recommend the Bicam as a cheap(-er) and flexible solution.
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I keep wondering why you would need tilt on such short lenses?
And it makes me nervous being forced to remount a perfectly adjusted lens...
DOF of course.
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DOF of course.
A very simple statement.
With a quite aggressive CoC of 0.035 the hyperfocal distance for a 35mm lens at f11 is 3.25m (on a 36x48 sensor). This will give you sharpness from 1.6m to infinity.
If the camera is put on a tripod at 1.6m height, the 35mm lens covers the ground from 3.1m distance from the camera, which means everything that is seen on the ground to infinity is sharp.
So my question is still valid: I keep wondering why you would need tilt on such short lenses?
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A very simple statement.
With a quite aggressive CoC of 0.035 the hyperfocal distance for a 35mm lens at f11 is 3.25m (on a 36x48 sensor). This will give you sharpness from 1.6m to infinity.
If the camera is put on a tripod at 1.6m height, the 35mm lens covers the ground from 3.1m distance from the camera, which means everything that is seen on the ground to infinity is sharp.
So my question is still valid: I keep wondering why you would need tilt on such short lenses?
sometimes you want or you need to open the f more, e.g. in dark environments.
sometimes you even have closer objects,
sometimes you want to do the opposite, you can create interesting unsharpness with tilting.
i wouldnt say its a must but it makes sense if you have it. more nowadays where you can use the lcd for sharpness checking, if your back allows 100% view.
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sometimes you want or you need to open the f more, e.g. in dark environments.
sometimes you even have closer objects,
sometimes you want to do the opposite, you can create interesting unsharpness with tilting.
i wouldnt say its a must but it makes sense if you have it. more nowadays where you can use the lcd for sharpness checking, if your back allows 100% view.
You didn't get the point. Tilt is not a bad thing.
But due to their great sharpness range and the very great sensibility to focus plane misalignments it's just not making real sense with short focal lengths.
You're right that one needs a monitor not only for checking the sharpness but also for all the interesting effects you get when doing close range photography with extreme wideangles (curvature of field, distortion).
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With a quite aggressive CoC of 0.035 the hyperfocal distance for a 35mm lens at f11 is 3.25m (on a 36x48 sensor). This will give you sharpness from 1.6m to infinity.
I am interessted in this particular topic as I do NOT use hyperfocal distance at all with digital. I don't have a 35mm LF lens but the Digitar 47XL. When I set the lens to infinity (and f11) infinity is tack sharp and I have a certain DOF. When I set focus back to, say, 10meters... infinity is soft. Though this is by far inside hyperfocal distance by defintion).
Maximum I set back focus is like shown in the image. When I set the lens to any closer distance than that infinity gets soft (well, not soft but if you are very critical regarding sharpness you already see a loss of sharpness - and no, the lens is not misaligned, quite the contrary).
[attachment=14779:foucs.jpg]
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I am interessted in this particular topic as I do NOT use hyperfocal distance at all with digital. I don't have a 35mm LF lens but the Digitar 47XL. When I set the lens to infinity (and f11) infinity is tack sharp and I have a certain DOF. When I set focus back to, say, 10meters... infinity is soft. Though this is by far inside hyperfocal distance by defintion).
Maximum I set back focus is like shown in the image. When I set the lens to any closer distance than that infinity gets soft (well, not soft but if you are very critical regarding sharpness you already see a loss of sharpness - and no, the lens is not misaligned, quite the contrary).
[attachment=14779:foucs.jpg]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion)
This subject has already been discussed numerous times.
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Sorry Michele,
Incorrect, I think. The bicam can mount the 35xl only in helical for rear shift (+/- 17mm), with stitching back, and rise fall (+/-17mm) built into the body This is also true for the wider lenses, and the 38SA I use. It [35xl] does not work on the bellows, which permits the tilt and swing. A 47 is about the widest you can (comfortably) use on the bellows, but I think the new Rodie 40 might work as well. Each lens requires a suitable bayonet mount, although you probably could share some between lenses if you were desperate - they're not that expensive!
I'm fairly shocked that Cambo decided on a solution that you require per lens! They already have rather high mounting costs, a fact that put me off buying one in the first place, hence the Bicam.
@Jack - I returned a Flexicam, since it wasn't designed to be used with a 35 to allow stitching. I've found the design and engineering of the Bicam to be very, very good. OK, it's not an Alpa (or likewise), but doesn't have that pricetag either !
Hope this helps - and yes, I would recommend the Bicam as a cheap(-er) and flexible solution.
ooooooops!! didn't know that!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion)
This subject has already been discussed numerous times.
His question has merit. The link you sent gives him nothing related to understanding his issues.
Thomas, I would suggest you create a topic of your own for this.
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Thomas, I would suggest you create a topic of your own for this.
maybe... but I know how my lenses perform at wide, middle and close distances. So nothing to solve for me personally.
It's only just that even with wide angles (if e.g. the 47XL count's as "wide") some tilt for extended DOF might be useful in some situations.
Though I agree with "schaubild" about the critical alignement. Am curious if the Cambo tilt/swing mount will be geared so that the zero setting is locked.
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I am interessted in this particular topic as I do NOT use hyperfocal distance at all with digital. I don't have a 35mm LF lens but the Digitar 47XL. When I set the lens to infinity (and f11) infinity is tack sharp and I have a certain DOF. When I set focus back to, say, 10meters... infinity is soft. Though this is by far inside hyperfocal distance by defintion).
Maximum I set back focus is like shown in the image. When I set the lens to any closer distance than that infinity gets soft (well, not soft but if you are very critical regarding sharpness you already see a loss of sharpness - and no, the lens is not misaligned, quite the contrary).
[attachment=14779:foucs.jpg]
I have also discovered this phenomenon with digital. I set my 45mm Contax lens to f11 and set the focus to the hyperfocal distance but noticed during processing that the image was soft at infinity. I assumed my Contax lens was made for film, and maybe a digital sensor needs different focus markings on the lens for the hyperfocal distance.
This is from Wikipedia: "The hyperfocal distance is entirely dependent upon what level of sharpness is considered to be acceptable. The criterion for the desired acceptable sharpness is specified through the circle of confusion (COC) diameter limit. This criterion is the largest acceptable spot size diameter that an infinitesimal point is allowed to spread out to on the imaging medium (film, digital sensor, etc.)."
So I suppose that the 'acceptable level of sharpness' is more sensitive with digital capture compared to film. We can pixel peep with digital and we don't have film grain to help give the illusion of sharpness.
Ben
PS Held a Cambo today at the Sydney PMA trade show - very nice! Compact, light, nice thumbwheel controls on the back.
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PS Held a Cambo today at the Sydney PMA trade show - very nice! Compact, light, nice thumbwheel controls on the back.
Did you see the TS insert? Do you know if the zero setting is geared?
Thanks!
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Did you see the TS insert? Do you know if the zero setting is geared?
Thanks!
No they didn't have one at the stand. They just told me of it's existence.
Ben
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I am interessted in this particular topic as I do NOT use hyperfocal distance at all with digital. I don't have a 35mm LF lens but the Digitar 47XL. When I set the lens to infinity (and f11) infinity is tack sharp and I have a certain DOF. When I set focus back to, say, 10meters... infinity is soft. Though this is by far inside hyperfocal distance by defintion).
Maximum I set back focus is like shown in the image. When I set the lens to any closer distance than that infinity gets soft (well, not soft but if you are very critical regarding sharpness you already see a loss of sharpness - and no, the lens is not misaligned, quite the contrary).
[attachment=14779:foucs.jpg]
In testing my Cambo lens I always had the same problem and had to reduce the focal point by two stops. f/11 to f/5.6 etc. The lens is calibrated to film not the size/resolution of your sensor.
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The lens is calibrated to film not the size/resolution of your sensor.
maybe I didn't get that... my lens is calibrated to my sensor as I did it by myself.
edit: ah... I think I did get you wrong. You are referring to the DOF indication on the lens, right?
So, yes, it is actually completely useless with these highres chips.
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edit: ah... I think I did get you wrong. You are referring to the DOF indication on the lens, right?
So, yes, it is actually completely useless with these highres chips.
They are in fact extremely useful. They are just inaccurate *as marked* for the resolving ability of the high res backs.
My field testing indicates:
For P25/P20/P21 - 1.5 stop
For P45 - 2 stops
For P40/P65 - 2.5 stops
Example: Shooting at f/11 with the P45 you need to use the f/5.6 marking for hyperfocal.
Of course the best method is to test your back/body/lens combo for hyperfocal focusing at your preferred aperture and then either mark on the lens, or memorize/record the specific place on the lens. Then you can "set it and forget it". Leave a bit of slack since lens focus changes slightly with temperature, human error, etc.
Rodenstock/Schneider can't possibly know what micron-sized sensors will be used on a lens produced today. So instead of trying to produce lenses with DOF markings specific to each micron size (i.e. each generation of back) they mark to a known standard, and it is up to you (or your dealer) to understand how much to adjust from the film-standard-DOF to your specific back.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
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For P45 - 2 stops
Example: Shooting at f/11 with the P45 you need to use the f/5.6 marking for hyperfocal.
I feel that this is a very rough and optimistic approximation. IMHO DOF is more narrow. Okay, depends on what you call sharp.
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Made a short trip to the Netherlands today an took the opportunity to visit Cambo as there was a little thing to adjust on my camera.
Some short notes that may be interessting for WRS (WDS, Compact) users:
The TS adapter will fit into the regular lens mounts.
The zero setting of tilt and swing will be geared.
It's not yet finished but they are going to make a safe lock mechanism (similar to the geared shift with a small blob).
Adjustment screws go very smooth but the entire thing feels very solid. Indeed it looks very promising!
As swing and tilt is moveable in all directions they actually didn't want to make an indication for the degrees of tilt and/or swing.
I find that indications are useful if - for whatever reason - you don't have the time to make a LCC shot. If you know the settings you could do it afterwards.
In general I find indications useful with regard to raw processing. They think about a solution.
The adapter will be available for the Rodenstock HR up from 28mm and longer and for the Digitars up from the 47XL and longer.
Tried the leveling base and directly picked it up (still a prototype with the scale not yet finished but I don't care about the design of the scale).
It feels like a natural extension of the camera (and indeed is desinged as one) and it keeps the gear extremely lean - no tripod head needed, just that small base for the WRS. For me personally this is an extremely useful addition as I like my WRS setup light and small.
The leveling base has a geared zero position for panning. I never thought about that but the useful thing here is that you can compose and once finished you just turn the camera 180° to look at the front, make some adjustments (exposure, aperture or whatever) and turn it back to exactly the same position. Useful if you stand on a balkony or similar... but certainly useful in several other situation as well.
The bottom/front the base has a standard sized eyelet to mount a shade on a clamp, the LCC plate on a clamp or whatever you like to mount ...
Again, the adjustments are very smooth but the leveling base is very solid.
They will offer Fresnel groundglasses. So you have the choice either to take the regular or the Fresnel screen (or both, of course).
Picked one up as well and this screen turns the WRS into a new camera for me. Okay, a bit of a stretch. But I can see the entire groundglass (width and height of the screen is roughly 8x6cm) relatively bright and clear - with the regular screen you just see a sweet spot wherever you put the loupe. With the Fresnel there is light fall off as well of course, but it's much, much better (and BTW talking about the 5.6/47XL here). As far as I figured out today I can adjust focus on the screen without the help of an additional loupe (the lens of the focussing hood seems to do well here... but I have to double check under different conditions).
They modified the focussing hood: now there is a mechanism so that you can fold out the focussing hood but don't have to remove it all together. Nice!
A little new feature on the WRS body: by now on the bottom of the camera there was just one level. Now the body has two levels on the bottom so that you can mount the camera above your head but still can level it.
I asked for a cap to temporarily store the back when mounted on the interface. No solution by now but it's on their list.
All the new things mentioned here will be availabe anytime up from autumn or so.
They keep on with developing and improving the camera and the accessories - very much appreciated!
In part just some inconspicuous details. But they may turn out as usefull additions for someone.
-
Made a short trip to the Netherlands today an took the opportunity to visit Cambo as there was a little thing to adjust on my camera.
Some short notes that may be interessting for WRS (WDS, Compact) users:
The TS adapter will fit into the regular lens mounts.
The zero setting of tilt and swing will be geared.
It's not yet finished but they are going to make a safe lock mechanism (similar to the geared shift with a small blob).
Adjustment screws go very smooth but the entire thing feels very solid. Indeed it looks very promising!
As swing and tilt is moveable in all directions they actually didn't want to make an indication for the degrees of tilt and/or swing.
I find that indications are useful if - for whatever reason - you don't have the time to make a LCC shot. If you know the settings you could do it afterwards.
In general I find indications useful with regard to raw processing. They think about a solution.
The adapter will be available for the Rodenstock HR up from 28mm and longer and for the Digitars up from the 47XL and longer.
Tried the leveling base and directly picked it up (still a prototype with the scale not yet finished but I don't care about the design of the scale).
It feels like a natural extension of the camera (and indeed is desinged as one) and it keeps the gear extremely lean - no tripod head needed, just that small base for the WRS. For me personally this is an extremely useful addition as I like my WRS setup light and small.
The leveling base has a geared zero position for panning. I never thought about that but the useful thing here is that you can compose and once finished you just turn the camera 180° to look at the front, make some adjustments (exposure, aperture or whatever) and turn it back to exactly the same position. Useful if you stand on a balkony or similar... but certainly useful in several other situation as well.
The bottom/front the base has a standard sized eyelet to mount a shade on a clamp, the LCC plate on a clamp or whatever you like to mount ...
Again, the adjustments are very smooth but the leveling base is very solid.
They will offer Fresnel groundglasses. So you have the choice either to take the regular or the Fresnel screen (or both, of course).
Picked one up as well and this screen turns the WRS into a new camera for me. Okay, a bit of a stretch. But I can see the entire groundglass (width and height of the screen is roughly 8x6cm) relatively bright and clear - with the regular screen you just see a sweet spot wherever you put the loupe. With the Fresnel there is light fall off as well of course, but it's much, much better (and BTW talking about the 5.6/47XL here). As far as I figured out today I can adjust focus on the screen without the help of an additional loupe (the lens of the focussing hood seems to do well here... but I have to double check under different conditions).
They modified the focussing hood: now there is a mechanism so that you can fold out the focussing hood but don't have to remove it all together. Nice!
A little new feature on the WRS body: by now on the bottom of the camera there was just one level. Now the body has two levels on the bottom so that you can mount the camera above your head but still can level it.
I asked for a cap to temporarily store the back when mounted on the interface. No solution by now but it's on their list.
All the new things mentioned here will be availabe anytime up from autumn or so.
They keep on with developing and improving the camera and the accessories - very much appreciated!
In part just some inconspicuous details. But they may turn out as usefull additions for someone.
I have been told that the estimated retrofit price will be $1295.00 per lens and will take 3-4 days. Cambo will start retrofitting in early September.
Chris Lawery(e-mail Me) (http://mailto:chris@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Sales Manager, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)