Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: michaelnotar on June 07, 2009, 02:21:41 am
-
i am considering a netbook or ultra compact PC for tethering with my P25. this would be in addition to a mac book pro. a few questions...
is the computer that michael wrote an article about the only one that looks like a good canidate...?
it seems the more cells the batteries have the longer they last...are batteries usually hot swapable or do i need to restart the computer inbetween changes?
exactly how fast are these things? with 1.6ghtz processors, 1-2GB ram, i would expect they are about as fast maybe a lil slower than my G4 powerbook 1.5ghtz PPC/1.5GB ram/OS 10.5.7/ capture 1 4.8.
how viabable is a USB to femail FW 400 female for these things...sure the one michael wrote about has an express slot i think it is to add a card with a FW connection. is that the only computer with it? i would like to see it and buy it in the US. i tried kabatek, placed an order and am waiting on paypal.... i never entered any payment info...whats that about...?
how much HD space should i get? i assume i could buy any Sata/esata HD and install it, what ever it takes. i have an 80GB HD and i dont use it now, but understand i need extra space for OS/software virtual memory use.
-
i am considering a netbook or ultra compact PC for tethering with my P25. this would be in addition to a mac book pro. a few questions...
is the computer that michael wrote an article about the only one that looks like a good canidate...?
I don't mean to take this thread of topic, or to give it a negative tone, but I and a hundred others have asked this question before.
Why doesn't medium format backs have in camera processing, a better more detailed preview and a decent lcd?
Is ti really that expensive and difficult?
Now to put the thread back on topic, if any of the medium formats backs offered this, would anyone really care about shooting to a tiny pc computer?
The extra batteries, learning curve, expense just to view an image on a better lcd, is it really worth it and if your using C1's full version you will have to deactivate one of our computers to make the software legal, or by another license. Then the added expense and hassel of transferring images form a pc disk to a mac disk isn't impossible, but not the easiest thing in the world.
OK, now I''m back off topic
This year our productions have changed, (it actually started last year). As clients want more production per day, about mid of 2008 I decided to stop tethering, even in studio, even though we have a dedicated digital tech.
I shoot to cards, first "my" polaroids to set the light and the stye, then clear the card, shoot 10 to 15 frames, depending on subject, and we put them into the computer for review if the client requires. Sometimes I may show a quick image to the AD on the back of the camera.
Once 15 or so images are on the computer we have a quick review with the AD and crew, then we shoot like we use to with film. We shoot until the card is full or the session has ended, download it, quick review again and then on to the next session.
This may seem like a strange or complicated workaround to replace tethering, but I've found we not only shoot with less interference from comments, (which saves time and allows us to work the shot), I find not having a cord always dangling between me and the computer liberating.
I've worked this way for over 7 months and I am absolutely positive it's faster and easier than tethering and frees up the tech and the AD to make an edit while I keep working.
Once again, I am sorry for hijacking this thread,but I am still curious as to why medium format won't allow for this or an hdmi port so you can view a high def image on a hand held field monitor.
B
-
Why doesn't medium format backs have in camera processing, a better more detailed preview and a decent lcd?
The Sinar eSprit65 has all of that, as has been mentioned many times before
-
The Sinar eSprit65 has all of that, as has been mentioned many times before
The eSprit65 has some nifty features for sure, how come they haven't made a full frame version without microlenses?
-
The eSprit65 has some nifty features for sure, how come they haven't made a full frame version without microlenses?
I don't know. I have been wishing for that since I heard about the eSprit65. A 645 sensor version of that back would be great.
-
BCooter: he would not need to buy another copy of C1 or deactivate one of his other installations. Capture One requires no license/activation or registration to run in "digital back only" mode.
There is no FireWire to USB converters suitable to this.
-
I do believe that the only way is a netbook with an ExpressCard slot, then buy a Firewire ExpressCard, but as I have already mentioned, of the ExpressCards that I have tested, none provided power to the digital back, or at least, even if it did, it was not sufficient to even power up the back. For me, it is not a problem because I have an Ixpress, so I can just keep the battery slotted in. If you have a PhaseOne back, you can set it in the menus to draw power from the battery while tethered. No such luck with Leaf Aptus, am I right? I could be wrong with the Leaf backs as I don't have access to one for testing. Unfortunately, I did not think to try it with the Sinar eMotion 75 LV whilst I had it.
Performance wise... I found that running FlexColor or Phocus on the netbook Atom 1.6GHz was approximately 3x slower than running it on an Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz. I used FlexColor more than Phocus on the Atom. Exporting JPEGs from 3F RAW files took about 30+ seconds each, whereas the same only takes 8 - 10 seconds on the Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz.
Remember also that most Netbooks can only accomodate 2GB of RAM, maximum.
-
I don't know. I have been wishing for that since I heard about the eSprit65. A 645 sensor version of that back would be great.
Have you seen the LCD in real life? Is it as good as a Nikon D3?
-
Have you seen the LCD in real life? Is it as good as a Nikon D3?
People who have seen it report that it is the same as the D3's screen.
-
BCooter: he would not need to buy another copy of C1 or deactivate one of his other installations. Capture One requires no license/activation or registration to run in "digital back only" mode.
can you explain what this means Doug?
I have C1 on my main workstation, and high end (big) laptop, but also am thinking of putting it on a Netbook for checking stitch, focus, etc on light locations. Afaik, I had to put in a licence code for this 3rd installation, but... do you mean to say I can download a trial copy of C1 4.x and not register it if I work tethered, or what?
A bigger issue is why tethered DB live view is not available for Windows users at the latest release. C1 really have to fix this. (and for that matter add 64 bit support)
-
People who have seen it report that it is the same as the D3's screen.
.. some people have also seen ufos ;-))
-
Have you seen the LCD in real life? Is it as good as a Nikon D3?
I saw a preproduction back in NYC, at Photo East. I was not impressed with the LCD at all. It seemed very contrasty and harsh.
But hey, Javits is not the prettiest light in the universe, either. And who knows if they refined it, once the production models started shipping. It is shipping, right?
-
... I can download a trial copy of C1 4.x and not register it if I work tethered, or what?
yes. when installing you can choose from three modes: Trial, DB mode, PRO. If you run C1 in DB mode you don't have to register. So C1 DB (which is the PRO version but without support for DSLRs) is free for Phase DB users.
-
i am considering a netbook or ultra compact PC for tethering with my P25. this would be in addition to a mac book pro. a few questions...
exactly how fast are these things? with 1.6ghtz processors, 1-2GB ram, i would expect they are about as fast maybe a lil slower than my G4 powerbook 1.5ghtz PPC/1.5GB ram/OS 10.5.7/ capture 1 4.8.
I have an 80GB HD and i dont use it now, but understand i need extra space for OS/software virtual memory use.
What is wrong with the Mac book pro?
Do you just want a larger LCD without a full sized laptop?
I think that if you are used to a Mac book pro, you would hate anything else.
For phocus 1.2, with 50 Mpx files (and good fast performance with anything else) you need
twice the processing speed,
twice the number of cores (for laptop mobile use)
four times the ram
four time as much hard disk,
ideally... all networked to an 8 core, terabyte, multi-raid machine
-
BCooter: he would not need to buy another copy of C1 or deactivate one of his other installations. Capture One requires no license/activation or registration to run in "digital back only" mode.
There is no FireWire to USB converters suitable to this.
Doug, your right, I should have mentioned the DB only is free, though small computer . . . large computer few photographers are going to go out and shoot without some backup and usually the medium format backup is a Canon.
At that stage if you ever do need to tether or just view our canon/nikon files in v4, to the netbook, or any other new computer, a new license or activation is required.
Since I have multiple computers, early on I tried just loading the DB version (this was in version 3 days) and it just gets too confusing so I bought an extra license.
I can somewhat understand the lure of a small netbook and have looked at a few, the prices are reasonable, but they're slow and honestly you can buy used intel macbooks for $700, used macbook pros for $1,200 and keep it all within the same system, not go through the hassel of loading drivers and macdrive so you can read an apple disk.
B
-
i like the idea of a netbook for tethering but if it is up to 3x as slow as a decent laptop, forget it. i dont expect to be as fast as the laptop but thats way too slow. i think i would go either untethered or laptop and try to define the situations where i would use each.
ya MFB screens arent anything special, but its enough to get by. cant wait till VGA quality screens are used like the 5d mark II, which has an amazing screen. we used it for a video project recently. its the first screen that show focus clearly and sharp.
-
I saw a preproduction back in NYC, at Photo East. I was not impressed with the LCD at all. It seemed very contrasty and harsh.
It seems the quality is the same as the D3: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....st&p=280154 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34224&view=findpost&p=280154)
-
i like the idea of a netbook for tethering but if it is up to 3x as slow as a decent laptop, forget it.
+1
A MBP might be large but it does the job.
-
I have seen it: IT IS as good as the D3's screen.
Thierry
Have you seen the LCD in real life? Is it as good as a Nikon D3?
People who have seen it report that it is the same as the D3's screen.
-
... I didn't!
Thierry
.. some people have also seen ufos ;-))
-
It was one of the 7 working prototypes.
Contrast and brightness can be adjusted.
It is shipping since December 2008.
Thierry
I saw a preproduction back in NYC, at Photo East. I was not impressed with the LCD at all. It seemed very contrasty and harsh.
But hey, Javits is not the prettiest light in the universe, either. And who knows if they refined it, once the production models started shipping. It is shipping, right?
-
can you explain what this means Doug?
I have C1 on my main workstation, and high end (big) laptop, but also am thinking of putting it on a Netbook for checking stitch, focus, etc on light locations. Afaik, I had to put in a licence code for this 3rd installation, but... do you mean to say I can download a trial copy of C1 4.x and not register it if I work tethered, or what?
As mentioned above you just select "Run in Digital Back Only Mode" when the program asks you to register/activate. You can see dSLR files, but you can only tether to, and make changes to raw files from, Phase One digital backs.
Doug, your right, I should have mentioned the DB only is free, though small computer . . . large computer few photographers are going to go out and shoot without some backup and usually the medium format backup is a Canon.
At that stage if you ever do need to tether or just view our canon/nikon files in v4, to the netbook, or any other new computer, a new license or activation is required.
Since I have multiple computers, early on I tried just loading the DB version (this was in version 3 days) and it just gets too confusing so I bought an extra license.
True enough. Though if the point is just to download/check images in the field and not really "work them up" then you can use Canon/Nikon's native software (free for their users).
I agree that things were pretty confusing in this regard for Capture One "DB". Now there are no licenses/codes/activation/registration, you just say "Run in Digital Back Only mode" when it asks you to activate.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
-
What is wrong with the Mac book pro?
Do you just want a larger LCD without a full sized laptop?
I think that if you are used to a Mac book pro, you would hate anything else.
For phocus 1.2, with 50 Mpx files (and good fast performance with anything else) you need
twice the processing speed,
twice the number of cores (for laptop mobile use)
four times the ram
four time as much hard disk,
ideally... all networked to an 8 core, terabyte, multi-raid machine
whole different ball-game. until you have picked up a netbook and realize how incredibly small, light and useful they are you don't get it.
once you do, its an eye opener. my large pro laptop now looks like a1980's cellphone ! I barely use it
-
My netbook arrived Friday and a new laptop today. I have also purchased an express34 card for the netbook.
I have connected my P45 to the netbook and it does not detect it - appears that the express card is not loading properly. Tried it on both the laptop and my desktop as well (3computers in total).
None of them recognise the back with C1.
Reading the manual for C1 it appears that the tethered option is only available in the Pro version - Is this correct? or will it work in DB mode?
I have tried it on the 30 day trial version and it still does not work.
On the desktop the back appears to change the power supply from battery to firewire.
Thankyou for any replies.
Ray
-
My netbook arrived Friday and a new laptop today. I have also purchased an express34 card for the netbook.
I have connected my P45 to the netbook and it does not detect it - appears that the express card is not loading properly. Tried it on both the laptop and my desktop as well (3computers in total).
None of them recognise the back with C1.
Reading the manual for C1 it appears that the tethered option is only available in the Pro version - Is this correct? or will it work in DB mode?
I have tried it on the 30 day trial version and it still does not work.
On the desktop the back appears to change the power supply from battery to firewire.
C1 does no tethering
C1 "Digital Back Only Mode" will do tethering for Digital Backs only
C1 Pro will do tethering for both Digital Backs and Canon/Nikon
Set [Menu > Configuration > Power Source > Battery] to make sure the back understands it will only have power from the on-board battery.
If the back connects to other computers but not to the laptop I suspect you are right that the ExpressCard Firewire Adapter is defective or the driver for that adapter are not installed properly. Do you have any other firewire devices (e.g. a FW hard drive) to confirm this?
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
-
i am considering a netbook or ultra compact PC for tethering with my P25. this would be in addition to a mac book pro. a few questions...
is the computer that michael wrote an article about the only one that looks like a good canidate...?
it seems the more cells the batteries have the longer they last...are batteries usually hot swapable or do i need to restart the computer inbetween changes?
exactly how fast are these things? with 1.6ghtz processors, 1-2GB ram, i would expect they are about as fast maybe a lil slower than my G4 powerbook 1.5ghtz PPC/1.5GB ram/OS 10.5.7/ capture 1 4.8.
how viabable is a USB to femail FW 400 female for these things...sure the one michael wrote about has an express slot i think it is to add a card with a FW connection. is that the only computer with it? i would like to see it and buy it in the US. i tried kabatek, placed an order and am waiting on paypal.... i never entered any payment info...whats that about...?
how much HD space should i get? i assume i could buy any Sata/esata HD and install it, what ever it takes. i have an 80GB HD and i dont use it now, but understand i need extra space for OS/software virtual memory use.
I use my Thinkpad X61 for tethering (p30+) and it works flawless. Both on battery and with ac plugged in. Very small and light laptop.
My has a 2,2 dualcore 3gb of ram and a 250gb hdd, 12 inch screen. Built in fw400 port. And it is about 2,3lbs
-
Set [Menu > Configuration > Power Source > Battery] to make sure the back understands it will only have power from the on-board battery.
If the back connects to other computers but not to the laptop I suspect you are right that the ExpressCard Firewire Adapter is defective or the driver for that adapter are not installed properly. Do you have any other firewire devices (e.g. a FW hard drive) to confirm this?
Doug Peterson
are you sure the drivers have been loaded for the back?
-
Thanks for all the replies.
I have had call from where I bought the back and they suggested it was a Windows XP problem.
I downloaded the necessary file from Phaseone and the back was detected and the drivers installed. The back is up and running in my desktop.
As I say the expresscard that I bought for the netbook was not installing properly, and I was having problems with the laptop anyway, and the technician at PCWorld tried to update the BIOS, and it would not load. He seemed to think it may have had a problem with the motherboard.
I had returned both items before I received the information.
Thanks again
Ray R
-
I once had problems with a cheap HAMA PCMCIA card on my small 12" noname laptop, that never work, bought a Belkin then, and never had a problem again.
Tom-
-
if you have problems with your expresscard sometimes it's the chipset of the expresscard. I had issues with a firewire800 expresscard and bought a different brand and it worked fine after that.
-
just saw these from Archos - take a look at the 2nd photo down.
http://www.archoslounge.net/Premier-compte...rence,8906.html (http://www.archoslounge.net/Premier-compte-rendu-de-la-conference,8906.html)
more info here:
http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/06/archos-l...s-7-tablet-umpc (http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/06/archos-launch-9%E2%80%9D-windows-7-tablet-umpc)
looks perfect - BUT no firewire/card slot on this, but its the tablet netbook revolution coming.
I'd bet Apple's netbook will very close to how this looks, if ever they release it.
-
I have ordered another express34 to firewire card, and having managed to get the back to work on the desktop, I am ready to try on the netbook when it arrives.
Wishful thinking, but hopefully tomorrow. So I will let you know how it goes.
-
I have ordered another express34 to firewire card, and having managed to get the back to work on the desktop, I am ready to try on the netbook when it arrives.
Wishful thinking, but hopefully tomorrow. So I will let you know how it goes.
just for your reference, the firewire 800 expresscard that works on mine is the Siig brand one, you can get it off the B&H website. haven't had any problems with it so far.
-
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Notebo...oductName=T1028 (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Notebook/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Notebook&ProductID=3019&ProductName=T1028)
At a PC show today I came across this product which I felt is extremely interesting, it works as a swivel screen so it works like a tablet instead of a laptop which is easier for viewing images with one hand.
and there's an express card slot.
it'll be great if there's the possibility of installing OS X on it.
-
My card arrived this morning - and I've spent the rest of the day trying to get Windows to load it, and I am still trying, but about to give up.
-
By reading this thread, I conclude the best option BY FAR for dback users is a MBP. There's a new 13" model. I can't afford a dback yet. Currently I'm using a Canon FF and planning on buying a Viliv X70. Too bad is only usb. I think it's time for dback manufacturers to add usb tethering. Maybe they waiting for usb 3.0, who knows?
Ed
My card arrived this morning - and I've spent the rest of the day trying to get Windows to load it, and I am still trying, but about to give up.
-
I spent some time looking in to the netbooks and found them appealing in price and form factor .. all until you have to face the idea of dealing with the OS that has 50,000.000 lines of code and slows the machine down. My wife is no Mac addict -like me-, she runs a large agency office here with IT officer and all. When we moved here they took her Blackberry and gave her a smart phone with Windows OS. Every night she would complain about the phone not being able to do the must basic functions that she took for granted with her other system until one day I said: "look, you are the boss of the IT guy, give him a direct order to give you the Blackberry back" she did it and there was no more phone problems... this is the thing. The software is as important as the form factor.
Apple is bringing back the 13 inch PRO level portable and I will get one as soon as I am in NY -next month-. This may be the perfect portable solution.. with FireWire ... for shooting a digital back on the field. It has 7 hours battery life, a better display. And more importantly, a good, problems free OS. Apparently Snow Leopard has an even smaller foot print than the old Leopard and runs faster.
just saw these from Archos - take a look at the 2nd photo down.
http://www.archoslounge.net/Premier-compte...rence,8906.html (http://www.archoslounge.net/Premier-compte-rendu-de-la-conference,8906.html)
more info here:
http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/06/archos-l...s-7-tablet-umpc (http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/06/archos-launch-9%E2%80%9D-windows-7-tablet-umpc)
looks perfect - BUT no firewire/card slot on this, but its the tablet netbook revolution coming.
I'd bet Apple's netbook will very close to how this looks, if ever they release it.
-
By reading this thread, I conclude the best option BY FAR for dback users is a MBP. There's a new 13" model. I can't afford a dback yet.
Apple is bringing back the 13 inch PRO level portable and I will get one as soon as I am in NY -next month-. This may be the perfect portable solution.. with FireWire ... for shooting a digital back on the field.
- there is a world of difference between a MBP type laptop, (Mac or PC) and a Netbook.
if there wasn't netbooks wouldn't have become the red-hot market phenomenon it has. I was a skeptic till I used one, now cant be bothered 80% of the time with the other uber-power machines I have sitting here, and at $300-$400 all in, whats not to like?
2nd generation on the way with SSD drives, newer processors, touch screens, and long battery lifes (12 hours?).
ps - if you really want it with OSX, it can be installed in a netbook ('Hackintosh') with excellent results - as many sites make clear.
-
I am getting close to buying a netbook. The only remaining decision is - which one? A newer version for better performance, or an older one on sale to save a few dollars? (about $225 on clearance for some), etc.
I understand that Windows 7 will be officially announced on June 26th. If you buy a regular desktop or laptop after that date, you will receive a coupon for a free upgrade of OS when it comes out in September. I don't know if that will apply to the netbooks? That is probably the only thing that has me still on the fence timing-wise.
I wouldn't worry too much about Win XP OS vs. Leopard, etc. We have 2 Mac laptops, 2 Windows XP laptops, and 3 Windows XP desktops. There **really** is not much difference at all when using the different machines.
I have been using Mac's and PC's since 1990 and I have no preference for one over the other. They both work fine - kind of a Canon v. Nikon thing in my mind. They are both good tools - just use them.
-
I am getting close to buying a netbook. The only remaining decision is - which one? A newer version for better performance, or an older one on sale to save a few dollars? (about $225 on clearance for some), etc.
This is NOT an insult to any company. However, I think for your mental health you should rephrase your internal dialogue.
The question is whether to spend the money to get a better netbook with "less crappy performance".
All netbooks are very slow compared to any decent full sized computer (as one would expect since they are so compact and so inexpensive).
In that regard, if you can afford it, a netbook with more ram (one of the biggest constraints usually) or a faster processor may well be worth it.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:doug@captureintegration.com)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
-
I wouldn't worry too much about Win XP OS vs. Leopard, etc. We have 2 Mac laptops, 2 Windows XP laptops, and 3 Windows XP desktops. There **really** is not much difference at all when using the different machines.
I have been using Mac's and PC's since 1990 and I have no preference for one over the other. They both work fine - kind of a Canon v. Nikon thing in my mind. They are both good tools - just use them.
well said.
-
- there is a world of difference between a MBP type laptop, (Mac or PC) and a Netbook.
if there wasn't netbooks wouldn't have become the red-hot market phenomenon it has. I was a skeptic till I used one, now cant be bothered 80% of the time with the other uber-power machines I have sitting here, and at $300-$400 all in, whats not to like?
2nd generation on the way with SSD drives, newer processors, touch screens, and long battery lifes (12 hours?).
ps - if you really want it with OSX, it can be installed in a netbook ('Hackintosh') with excellent results - as many sites make clear.
now the question is: how do these netbooks perform with Phocus, Leaf Capture and C1? Phocus makes use of the GPU which of course is nonexistent on a netbook..(integrated)
If it's a firewire transfer I'm guessing that the transfer of the image from camera to computer itself will be ok but the rendering of the preview image will take pretty long?
Main interest is in the speed at which I can do a confirmation of focusing sharpness
-
now the question is: how do these netbooks perform with Phocus, Leaf Capture and C1? Phocus makes use of the GPU which of course is nonexistent on a netbook..(integrated)
If it's a firewire transfer I'm guessing that the transfer of the image from camera to computer itself will be ok but the rendering of the preview image will take pretty long?
Main interest is in the speed at which I can do a confirmation of focusing sharpness
read Michael article on using a UMPC if you want a fuller answer.
but clearly Netbooks etc are VERY low powered and not designed for big raw file crunching or ultra fast work.
you want that - you buy and use a bigger powerful machine.
you want lightness, simplicity and portability (to check focus/ live view/ stitch/ work tethered in the field, for example) you get one of these.
most buyer of Netbooks already have multiple computers - its an additional machine chosen for what it does, not a replacement for powerful desktop or laptop...
-
read Michael article on using a UMPC if you want a fuller answer.
but clearly Netbooks etc are VERY low powered and not designed for big raw file crunching or ultra fast work.
you want that - you buy and use a bigger powerful machine.
you want lightness, simplicity and portability (to check focus/ live view/ stitch/ work tethered in the field, for example) you get one of these.
most buyer of Netbooks already have multiple computers - its an additional machine chosen for what it does, not a replacement for powerful desktop or laptop...
I don't use C1, I'm surprised that an image takes 30 seconds to pop up on screen. Was just wondering how anyone else's experience with the other softwares are like.
Also wondering how the newer N280 Atoms are in comparison
-
I don't use C1, I'm surprised that an image takes 30 seconds to pop up on screen.
On my Canon I shoot RAW + JPEG (Large, Medium, or Small JPEG.) If your camera can create a RAW + JPEG at the same time, you could just check the JPEG, avoiding the overhead of the conversion of the RAW.
In the past, maybe 4-5 years ago, I used BreezeBrowser to sort and preview images. It had a pretty small footprint and fast performance working from the JPEG. They also have a tethered camera control tool, but it is really for DSLR's only, mostly Canon and Nikon, as is their RAW conversion.
In the tethered tool, you had the option of storing images on the CF card, on the laptop, or both. I believe you also had the option of transferring only the JPEG to the laptop without the RAW.
I'll load trial copies of those to test with my Canon for comparison with C1 and the Canon software. That might give an idea of the relative range of options to look at in other manufacturers software. (I will buy a MFDB again in September or October, once I start working again and open a new studio. Off work right now.)
-
The question is whether to spend the money to get a better netbook with "less crappy performance".
Thanks Doug! I appreciate your straight-up advice and recomendations, as always
I wound up buying a refurb Acer AOA150 yesterday for $220. It is 1Gb RAM, 160Gb hard drive, Atom N270. I will add memory to the max of 1.5Gb and play with that for a while.
My son needed a new monitor for his copmputer, so I bought the netbbok instead and will give that to him to use in the fall (I'll let him use my laptop till then.) In the fall I can buy myself a newer one with - hopefully - more power, it sounds like there are newer versions in the works.
In the meantime I can get hands on and test with the thing. It is so hard to get anywhere just reading all the specs online, makes my head swim after a while. I am also going to help a friends daughter buy a laptop for college, so I can test that one too as a benchmark against the netbook.
-
...
If it's a firewire transfer I'm guessing that the transfer of the image from camera to computer itself will be ok but the rendering of the preview image will take pretty long?
Main interest is in the speed at which I can do a confirmation of focusing sharpness
That's correct. In terms of I/O transfer speed, Netbooks are similar to any computer that has SATA drives, DDR2-533 memory, which is really only a bit slower than most Core 2 Duos which typically have at least 800MHz Front Side Bus. So in terms of transferring data, I don't believe I saw any noticeable difference. When I mentioned 30 seconds, I was primarily referring to Exporting 3F files to TIFF or JPEG in FlexColor, by the way. At the time when I was trying it, I remember being reasonably impressed - as others have said, although it is slower (Intel indicates that an Atom CPU is theoretically about half the speed of an Intel Pentium M when clocked at the clock speed, so my 3x speed difference between a 2.4GHz C2D and the 1.6GHz Atom seems about right) - I was coming from using a 1.42GHz PowerPC Mac for years, which took almost 3 minutes to export each JPEG or TIFF, so for me, 30 seconds was amazingly fast and really impressive.
I don't use C1, I'm surprised that an image takes 30 seconds to pop up on screen. Was just wondering how anyone else's experience with the other softwares are like.
Also wondering how the newer N280 Atoms are in comparison
The new N280 Atoms are only very very slightly faster - 1.66GHz versus 1.6GHz - so I don't expect to see any major difference. It also has a slightly faster system interface (FSB) running at 667MHz. Unfortunately, although I now still have a Nettop - Intel Atom N230 @ 1.6GHz, single core with HyperThreading, 1GB RAM - I have loaned it to a friend, but if I can get it back soon I'll run some tests again. This time I'll add Sinar eXposure to the mix and see how it runs too.
-
That's correct. In terms of I/O transfer speed, Netbooks are similar to any computer that has SATA drives, DDR2-533 memory, which is really only a bit slower than most Core 2 Duos which typically have at least 800MHz Front Side Bus. So in terms of transferring data, I don't believe I saw any noticeable difference. When I mentioned 30 seconds, I was primarily referring to Exporting 3F files to TIFF or JPEG in FlexColor, by the way. At the time when I was trying it, I remember being reasonably impressed - as others have said, although it is slower (Intel indicates that an Atom CPU is theoretically about half the speed of an Intel Pentium M when clocked at the clock speed, so my 3x speed difference between a 2.4GHz C2D and the 1.6GHz Atom seems about right) - I was coming from using a 1.42GHz PowerPC Mac for years, which took almost 3 minutes to export each JPEG or TIFF, so for me, 30 seconds was amazingly fast and really impressive.
The new N280 Atoms are only very very slightly faster - 1.66GHz versus 1.6GHz - so I don't expect to see any major difference. It also has a slightly faster system interface (FSB) running at 667MHz. Unfortunately, although I now still have a Nettop - Intel Atom N230 @ 1.6GHz, single core with HyperThreading, 1GB RAM - I have loaned it to a friend, but if I can get it back soon I'll run some tests again. This time I'll add Sinar eXposure to the mix and see how it runs too.
thanks for your very detailed answer.
the main problem I've had in the field is finding something handholdable that can do a quick focus check since I shoot people and they don't have 30 seconds to wait for me to check focus... As long as data transfer is reasonably fast than that's all I need: a big dumb hard drive with a screen that can do a decent enough focus check with the loupe tool
I'm going to look for that Gigabyte tablet netbook....I imagine just hanging the computer off the side of my tripod haha
cheers
-
I am still having trouble connecting my expresscard to the netbook. I have tried the expresscard on a laptop that I have (running Vista) and it works on that, but I cannot connect the camera back to it. The Firewire is working as I have connected a printer through it.
Is anyone able to offer any suggestions?
I have e-mailed the manufacturer/distrubutor of the netbook (same one as Michael has reviewed) in the UK and I am waiting for a reply.
I mainly want to use the netbook but would possibly want to use the laptop with the back, so any suggestions would be welcome.
The expresscard is a BestConnectivity with a Texas Instruments chipset.
Thanks
Ray R
-
Getting there - having spent some time on the internet, I found myself at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927827 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927827)
which required a registry edit.
The back now connects to my laptop - just need it to connect to the netbook.
-
Does your Thinkpad have a full 6pin FW400 port or the reduced 4pin smaller version? I have yet to see ANY PC based laptop with a FULL fw port.
I ended up getting a Firewire hub that has a power adapter, and that is the way I use the back to a laptop....not very nice, so often I just plug it to the Mac desktop....I would like to get a PC mased laptop for tethering...but I need a powered(or enough) full 6pin FW port. I have tried 2 PC laptops with the 4pin, and it forces you to slow down the C1 transfer rate and often getting black files, and slow processing. It looks like it sends the info in sections as it mentions as processing, it is sending some black layer etc.
Bcooter, Yes in many studio situations seeing your files on a large screen is critical. I use the focus option most of the time while shooting, and on my Mac it takes a bit of time for the Focus screen in a reasonably large window to redraw the focus. It isn't that long, but it is 3-4 or so seconds. Seeing it on a large screen you can relate the focus area to where it starts distorting inone view, as oppsed to a little screen to move around the image to see this. It is also less straining on yourself when you are in a comfortable position/setup to do this repeatedly. Aslo often your tech, or your assitant is going over the files and much better than having him or herbreathing down your head or interrupting flow or something.
-
I'm sorry to bring up this "old" issue... again, but I'm once again looking for/at this. what a difference 4 weeks make in a life.... I was looking at lugging a 18.4" hp quadcore with me. fastforward 2 weeks and the tickle in my knee turned out to be a pinched nerve. So I'm trying to slim my 35-50lb bag. I'm looking at carrying a netbook for reviewing.
1) I wish that they would bring a 340 (like the 330 PC vers 230 pc) so that you get 2 cores
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php...280+%40+1.66GHz (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+N280+%40+1.66GHz)
the n330 looks 2x as fast as the n280
2) have a built in CF card reader since 54e's all stick out of the laptop
3) better battery life (a possible 10.5hrs rocks)
looking around there are netbooks with 4GB of RAM. I think it was either sony of samsung. that would be awesome.
I wonder also if there will be a lite version of 64bit win7 for it.
and what do you think chrome will do for this field?
-
Just to let everyone know, I have failed to use my Kohjinsha - the same one as Michael used. It would not load the drivers for the ExpressCard, and the conclusion is that it is a faulty machine.
However, I am now in dispute with the company which provided it, who say the warranty does not cover replacement or refund, I have pointed out that I have returned it under The Sale of Goods Act (UK) and I am waiting for a response.
So all in all a very time consuming experiment, especially as the company I bought it from appears to be the only one to supply this laptop and I now have an Expresscard to firewire for which I have no use.