Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: schaubild on May 30, 2009, 08:39:16 am
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Wow, what a statement:
http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/85399865/...s-Entertainment (http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/85399865/Getty-Images-Entertainment)
I always wondered which cameras he uses.
Found the link here: http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=104 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=104)
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Don't miss the Raymond Meier images in that Alpa Gallery as well. Stunning.
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it looks like is shooting a hasselblad back, but how does he powers it on the alpa? imagebank?
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It looks like a CF back which carries its own battery and can use CF cards.
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Look at his photos in the gallery - they all seem to say Leaf Aptus 75.
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Look at his photos in the gallery - they all seem to say Leaf Aptus 75.
Which gallery??
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Look at his photos in the gallery - they all seem to say Leaf Aptus 75.
Sorry but having owned an Aptus I can definitely say that what he has in his hands is not an Aptus.
http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/85399865/...s-Entertainment (http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/85399865/Getty-Images-Entertainment)
Owning a CF back, I can tell you what he is holding in his hand certainly looks like what I own. I cannot tell which one but if it is one I can assure you it is a single shot version. Mine looks the same but has 2 small openings at the top for ventilation which I don't see here...
Sure, he might also use an Aptus but I don't seem to be able to find that gallery either. Why not use both I am still pondering over getting a Aptus again as well. Lovely pieces of equipment .
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Sorry but having owned an Aptus I can definitely say that what he has in his hands is not an Aptus.
http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/85399865/...s-Entertainment (http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/85399865/Getty-Images-Entertainment)
Owning a CF back, I can tell you what he is holding in his hand certainly looks like what I own. I cannot tell which one but if it is one I can assure you it is a single shot version.
Multishot with a copal shutter wouldn't make much sense anyway.
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Multishot with a copal shutter wouldn't make much sense anyway.
A true challenge.
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Wow, what a statement:
http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/85399865/...s-Entertainment (http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/85399865/Getty-Images-Entertainment)
I always wondered which cameras he uses.
Found the link here: http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=104 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=104)
The cable to the back looks like the wakeup cable provided by Phase One - perhaps Hasselblad is using the same wake up cable ?
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It is a wake-up cable. I just received a message that it is a H-fit P1. Hasselblad normally doesn't use that cable.
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Yes Gursky uses Phase One backs.
rh
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I was talking about the Meier images on the Alpa site which Mark was referring to:
On this site:
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=104 (http://\"http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=104\")
If you select Meier, you get these:
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?tablesearch (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?tablesearch)[photographer]=Meier,+Raymond&tablesearch[camera]=&tablesearch[lens]=&tablesearch[solutions]=&search_table=Search+the+gallery&path=gallery
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Does anyone know if Gursky is the photog that shot large format images from fashion week and were recently featured in the Art Basel photo gallery on Lincoln Ave in Miami? There was one image in particular of Lagerfeld walking down the cat walk that was incredible.
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Does anyone know if Gursky is the photog that shot large format images from fashion week and were recently featured in the Art Basel photo gallery on Lincoln Ave in Miami? There was one image in particular of Lagerfeld walking down the cat walk that was incredible.
hard to belive that he shoots this kind of subject. But you never know.
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I was talking about the Meier images on the Alpa site which Mark was referring to:
On this site:
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=104 (http://\"http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&detailpage=104\")
If you select Meier, you get these:
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?tablesearch (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?tablesearch)[photographer]=Meier,+Raymond&tablesearch[camera]=&tablesearch[lens]=&tablesearch[solutions]=&search_table=Search+the+gallery&path=gallery
Got it, thanks!
The whole gallery has some very interesting names
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Gursky's Alpa/ Phase use is relatively recent. all his more famous images were done with film.
(and it shows, many are badly post-processed and suffer from excessive sharpening artifacts)
it seems stitched P65+ is the way for such big format image makers - like Gursky, Crewdson etc.
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Looks like a Sinar eMotion back he is holding in his hand.
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This thread reminds me of my childhood when my friends and I were smitten with the particular baseball glove that Mickey Mantle used. LOL.
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This thread reminds me of my childhood when my friends and I were smitten with the particular baseball glove that Mickey Mantle used. LOL.
Right! Who cares? Even if one liked his stuff, it's not the camera, stupid!
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Multishot with a copal shutter wouldn't make much sense anyway.
ok, but whats the choice for a location photographer? please recommend something.
we badly need a modern portable electronic leaf shutter with high speeds.
tragedy that Prontor has gone.
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ok, but whats the choice for a location photographer? please recommend something.
we badly need a modern portable electronic leaf shutter with high speeds.
tragedy that Prontor has gone.
Seems like an electronic shutter is the only way to go:
http://www.alpa.ch/knowledgebase/questions...ith+the+ALPA%3F (http://www.alpa.ch/knowledgebase/questions/29/Can+I+use+my+Hasselblad%7B47%7DImacon+digital+back+with+the+ALPA%3F)
The controller is quite big, but as multishot only works with tripods anyway this shouldn't hurt that much?
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Look at his photos in the gallery
Check out this guy:
http://www.christianschmidt.com (http://www.christianschmidt.com)
I quit.
The landscapes are just to die for.
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Check out this guy:
http://www.christianschmidt.com (http://www.christianschmidt.com)
I quit.
The landscapes are just to die for.
Kinda weird that he would put a dust reference image in his book.. Plus I reckon he's got a centreline issue:
http://www.christianschmidt.com/#/Landscape/Page_1/Image_3 (http://www.christianschmidt.com/#/Landscape/Page_1/Image_3)
Nick-T
Yes I was being funny, many apologies. Christian Schmidt's work is indeed beautiful.
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Kinda weird that he would put a dust reference image in his book.. Plus I reckon he's got a centreline issue:
http://www.christianschmidt.com/#/Landscape/Page_1/Image_3 (http://www.christianschmidt.com/#/Landscape/Page_1/Image_3)
Nick-T
That's probably an attempt to be funny. I'm not trying to defend this particular photo or photographer but comments like that are a good method to prevent this forum to be flooded with too demanding
artist concepts or views.
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Check out this guy:
http://www.christianschmidt.com (http://www.christianschmidt.com)
I quit.
The landscapes are just to die for.
Really special landscapes.
He seems to work with the same camera as Gurski?:
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&...p;detailpage=47 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=news&yearmonth=2007&tablepage=2&detailpage=47)
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My favourite (http://www.christianschmidt.com/#/Landscape/Page_4/Image_38)
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My favourite (http://www.christianschmidt.com/#/Landscape/Page_4/Image_38)
Yair,
When I saw your post, I fully expected to click that link and see this (http://www.christianschmidt.com/#/Landscape/Page_3/Image_36), (but because of non-photographic reasons).
Is there a simple way to explain why someone would shoot a camera like that Alpa, over a camera like an H? Wider lenses? Built-in shift? Can you trust the framing of a viewfinder like that? Do you just set it on f32 and not worry about focus?
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Absolutely fantastic compelling images. A joy to watch.
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Is there a simple way to explain why someone would shoot a camera like that Alpa, over a camera like an H? Wider lenses? Built-in shift? Can you trust the framing of a viewfinder like that? Do you just set it on f32 and not worry about focus?
Probably, except for them fuzzy water pictures cause you know he ain't using a Dalsa Chip cause I think that Dalsa film goes a crazy after a minute or so.
B
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Is there a simple way to explain why someone would shoot a camera like that Alpa, over a camera like an H? Wider lenses? Built-in shift? Can you trust the framing of a viewfinder like that? Do you just set it on f32 and not worry about focus?
can someone explain why anyone would shoot anything else but an Alpa?
If you set f32 you don't have to worry about focus at all, indeed. Due to diffraction everything is so soft that you don't have to care about focus.
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Yair,
When I saw your post, I fully expected to click that link and see this (http://www.christianschmidt.com/#/Landscape/Page_3/Image_36), (but because of non-photographic reasons).
Is there a simple way to explain why someone would shoot a camera like that Alpa, over a camera like an H? Wider lenses? Built-in shift? Can you trust the framing of a viewfinder like that? Do you just set it on f32 and not worry about focus?
Honestly I was choosing between the two:-)
With wide lenses some leave them on infinity at f11, level the camera and shoot away...
Some use a ground glass, few use a range finder
Yair
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Hmm, well the Alpa are some beautifully crafted cameras. For shooting Architecture though, especially interiors, I prefer the focus control that my Arca affords. Using tilts and swings, I can achieve sharpness that is just ridiculous and not attainable on a plate camera (other than the likes of the Artec). Also, I like to have a lot of lenses at my disposal and have you seen how long the helical mounts are for the longer lenses? I can fit my Arca, digital back, charger, cables and Rodenstocks (35, 45, 55, 70, 90, 135) in a Pelican Studio Cruzer.
Still, I wouldn't mind me a 12 Max and the new 23 HR.... DAMN those sexy cameras
-C!
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Hmm, well the Alpa are some beautifully crafted cameras. For shooting Architecture though, especially interiors, I prefer the focus control that my Arca affords.
-C!
Which arca are you referring to? just out of curiosity.
thank you
am
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it seems stitched P65+ is the way for such big format image makers - like Gursky, Crewdson etc.
If you are going to stitch anyway, not sure why you need to use a P65+... a D3x does the job just fine.
Cheers,
Bernard
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With wide lenses some leave them on infinity at f11, level the camera and shoot away...
Some use a ground glass, few use a range finder
these (http://www.leica-geosystems.com/corporate/en/Laser-Distancemeter-Leica-DISTO-A5_31658.htm) meters are helpful as well... sometimes.
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am,
I'm using the 69 F Line Compact which has served me well for 15 years. I have used the F Metric extensively which I also like... but now that the M Line Two is out (at the same weight as the Metric) I'll be going that route. I've been looking at the dimensions of the M Line and think I can just fit it into the Pelican : )
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If you set f32 you don't have to worry about focus at all, indeed. Due to diffraction everything is so soft that you don't have to care about focus.
So now i have a new thing to be paranoid about -- diffraction. Why put an f32 or 45 on a lens, if it's not sharp? Or, why not put a red or green label on every lens sold, showing the non-diffraction "actually sharp" ranges of fstops?
I do know that on that Contax 80mm lens (yes, Zeiss), that, at f2 wide open, there was absolutely nowhere that was tack sharp. Not even close. So my green-line range would certainly not reach down to f2 on that Contax lens. With a reputation on quality, why not just make it 2.8, and be able to tell people it was sharp? F2 was like adding a SoftarII -- automatic Barbara Walters/Doris Day territory.
What is a generall acceptable "green line" range for a Technical Camera lens? No smaller than f11?
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If you are going to stitch anyway, not sure why you need to use a P65+... a D3x does the job just fine.
Cheers,
Bernard
and how exactly do you make the lens on the D3x stay locked in the same spot and the sensor move independently up/down or left/right Bernard?
on the other hand you could be right: if you're going to stitch why use a D3x, why not a Sureshot, or an i-Phone?
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and how exactly do you make the lens on the D3x stay locked in the same spot and the sensor move independently up/down or left/right Bernard?
on the other hand you could be right: if you're going to stitch why use a D3x, why not a Sureshot, or an i-Phone?
What I was going to do was take the Canon 45TS or the 24TS, and get some kind of metal rod or bracket, and JB Weld the rod to the chassis of the tilt lens. And then attach an RRS type tripod bracket to that. You'd have to pretty much chuck the resellability of the lens, but if it worked, it would be great. The LENS would mount to the tripod, and the camera body would doing the moving around. The lens stays fixed, so that it stitches pixel to pixel without any issues (or lens cast mess).
No idea if it would work, but I see no reason why it wouldn't. I'm almost amazed that Canon came out with a whole new generation of those TS lenses, and didn't add the ability to mount the LENS to the tripod, instead of the body. Because, if you're going to reach for a TS lens, pretty good odds that you're stitching. If Canon had added some high-tech-looking brackets and mounts to those TS lenses, they could have charged double compared to the previous generation. Stick on a James Russell-manufactured Sinar/Alpa/Arca/Cambo sticker, and the value goes up even more.
The other unknown in this topic is how well CS4 does with stitching files that are not perfect. The AutoMerge feature of CS4 is worth the upgrade price, alone. It is amazingly effective. CS4 might make all these other issues not worth messing with -- just get close, and let CS4 AutoMerge do the rest.
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The other unknown in this topic is how well CS4 does with stitching files that are not perfect. The AutoMerge feature of CS4 is worth the upgrade price, alone. It is amazingly effective. CS4 might make all these other issues not worth messing with -- just get close, and let CS4 AutoMerge do the rest.
[/quote]
I have never used this feature ( still on CS3 ) but it sounds great. when I shoot landscapes I shoot 3 exposures, left, center, right, at the same exposure but not on a tripod. then i put them together manually in photoshop but i always have problems with lens casts ( edges seem to be less saturated or underexposed etc ). does this auto merge feature fix this?
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So now i have a new thing to be paranoid about
Why put an f32 or 45 on a lens, if it's not sharp?
on film it's different and as long as we talk about film lenses there's nothing wrong to put smaller apertures on a lens.
I do know that on that Contax 80mm lens (yes, Zeiss), that, at f2 wide open, there was absolutely nowhere that was tack sharp. Not even close.
in this thread http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....=34950&st=0 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34950&st=0) I've posted examples of the Planar 2.0/80 on P45 (page1) and P21+ (page2). Well, not "tack sharp", but for some purposes one may use it wide open, esp. on the P21+ with its wider pixel pitch. For landscape and such f2.0 is maybe not the way to go...
What is a generall acceptable "green line" range for a Technical Camera lens? No smaller than f11?
be aware that it has nothing to do with tech camera or the lens. It has to do with the pixel pitch of the specific back. With your P45+ (6.8 microns) I'd say don't stop down beyond f16. F16 is already somewhat soft (not really soft but you'll lose some contrast compared to f11)... but I use f16 frequently and find it still very good (again: this applies to all my Contax lenses as well as to a Digitar 47XL with the P45).
You may have a look here (maybe not the best site in the world but a vivid one): http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials...photography.htm (http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm)
Alpa recommends to use f8 and f11:
http://www.alpa.ch/knowledgebase/questions...n+Digital+Rules (http://www.alpa.ch/knowledgebase/questions/20/12+Golden+Digital+Rules)
5) Generally, the f-stops between f 8 and f 11 should be used.
A few lenses allow for max. 4.0, 4.5 or f 5.6 - and even they get better at e.g. f 8. In any case: one rule remains - avoid f 16 and forget about f 22, etc. The reason: diffraction.
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then i put them together manually in photoshop but i always have problems with lens casts ( edges seem to be less saturated or underexposed etc ). does this auto merge feature fix this?
I use the merger in CS4 for the stitiching only - no correction of perspective or anything else. This is what the tool is doing really good.
To correct luminance and colour shifts I think Autopano Pro does a very good job (don't use it, but many say so...)
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The Alpa is a very simple and very robust piece of equipment which mates beautifully to most digital backs. Basically it is a well made square frame on to which one attaches their choice of Rodenstock or Schnieder lens in helical mount. Stitching requires the use of a simple sliding mechanism from RRS or and/purchasing a bulkier frame with inbuilt horizontal and vertical shifts ( ala MAX or XY) - nodal point stitching by way of a sliding mount is easy. the more difficult aspect is focus unless shooting@ recommended aperture range f8-11 and a wide angle - you have pretty much 1 meter to infinity in acceptable focus.
The only thing that Alpa doesn't deliver is tilts and swings - for that go traditional view camera or even better with made for digital Sinar arTec.
The other non quantifiable joy in using an Alpa is just walking around with a wide angle attached and shooting pure an simple - you making all necessary decision without inbuilt anything - it s a great editorial /reportage/street shooting machine.
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What I was going to do was take the Canon 45TS or the 24TS, and get some kind of metal rod or bracket, and JB Weld the rod to the chassis of the tilt lens. And then attach an RRS type tripod bracket to that. You'd have to pretty much chuck the resellability of the lens, but if it worked, it would be great. The LENS would mount to the tripod, and the camera body would doing the moving around. The lens stays fixed, so that it stitches pixel to pixel without any issues (or lens cast mess).
No idea if it would work, but I see no reason why it wouldn't. I'm almost amazed that Canon came out with a whole new generation of those TS lenses, and didn't add the ability to mount the LENS to the tripod, instead of the body. Because, if you're going to reach for a TS lens, pretty good odds that you're stitching. If Canon had added some high-tech-looking brackets and mounts to those TS lenses, they could have charged double compared to the previous generation. Stick on a James Russell-manufactured Sinar/Alpa/Arca/Cambo sticker, and the value goes up even more.
The other unknown in this topic is how well CS4 does with stitching files that are not perfect. The AutoMerge feature of CS4 is worth the upgrade price, alone. It is amazingly effective. CS4 might make all these other issues not worth messing with -- just get close, and let CS4 AutoMerge do the rest.
Just buy the stickers. It's a lot more cost effective because you buy a Canon with a tse lens and 10 minutes later it's a Sinar and when you get bored with your Sinar, wah-lah, you got yourself a new Alpa.
I do it with my Pontiac. Since they're gone, now i'm driving an Audi for $19, if they go bust, then I've got a BMW.
Sticker's are perfect for our economic times.
JR
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The other non quantifiable joy in using an Alpa is just walking around with a wide angle attached and shooting pure an simple - you making all necessary decision without inbuilt anything - it s a great editorial /reportage/street shooting machine.
No argument there! It's what makes me want a TC or a SWA and maybe just one lens even though I have the view camera and am placing my Phamiya 645 order on Monday. I expect that walking around Chicago with the TC would be really reminiscent of the days I spent with nothing but a Leica CL, 35 mm lens and a pocket full of Tri X.
As for lenses and diffraction. I have tested all my lenses and find that I can stop down as they get longer, but that only makes sense.... for two reasons:
1. f/11 on a 135mm is a bigger hole than f/11 on a 35mm and unless common sense fails me, the light is not nearly as "bent"
2. when focused, the longer lenses are further away from the DB than the shorter lenses and the angle of incidence is much more within the back's desirable range (which is why the LCC files on my 90 and 70 hardly ever show color shifts)
Given all that crap.... here's where I'm most often at:
35mm : f/11
45mm : f/11
55mm : f/11.5
70mm : f/16
90mm : f/16-22
135mm : f/22
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...
The only thing that Alpa doesn't deliver is tilts and swings - for that go traditional view camera or even better with made for digital Sinar arTec.
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Little correction: a tilt adapter is available since last year.
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?lang=en&p...p;detailpage=82 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?lang=en&path=news&detailpage=82)
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Little correction: a tilt adapter is available since last year.
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?lang=en&p...p;detailpage=82 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?lang=en&path=news&detailpage=82)
http://www.alpa.ch/image.php?file=files/ne...mp;output=thumb (http://www.alpa.ch/image.php?file=files/news/82/450010035/450010035%2018-47-35.jpg&width=550&height=550&scale=aspect_ratio&output=thumb)
http://www.alpa.ch/image.php?file=files/ne...mp;output=thumb (http://www.alpa.ch/image.php?file=files/news/82/450010035/450010035%2018-47-35.jpg&width=550&height=550&scale=aspect_ratio&output=thumb)
do you know if the adaptor is rotatable 360° and is the zero setting locked (looks like in the the image)?
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http://www.alpa.ch/image.php?file=files/ne...mp;output=thumb (http://www.alpa.ch/image.php?file=files/news/82/450010035/450010035%2018-47-35.jpg&width=550&height=550&scale=aspect_ratio&output=thumb)
http://www.alpa.ch/image.php?file=files/ne...mp;output=thumb (http://www.alpa.ch/image.php?file=files/news/82/450010035/450010035%2018-47-35.jpg&width=550&height=550&scale=aspect_ratio&output=thumb)
do you know if the adaptor is rotatable 360° and is the zero setting locked (looks like in the the image)?
It can be rotated in 90 degree steps.
The tilt is geared and goes to one side only, there is no movement below zero degrees.
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I thought that Hal Foster made a great observation in 'Design and Crime' when he said that Andreas Gursky almost succeeds in 'routinizing the uncanny' http://bit.ly/11LZ0b (http://bit.ly/11LZ0b)
It has been quite an achievement to reprise abstract expressionism within photography, in a milieu which appears at first to be a kind of deadpan, banal, documentary aesthetic. Thats what makes Gursky so great, and expensive. We still love something the size of a Jackson Pollock and if I was rich enough, I'd want them on my walls provided they are made by a German.
I'll get my coat...
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Thats what makes Gursky so great, and expensive.
That's an aspect of what makes him so great.
No Artist is expensive just because of the quality of his works.... Gursky is so expensive because he knows how the art market works.
Yet he deserves the success as he really has a substantial concept.
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It can be rotated in 90 degree steps.
The tilt is geared and goes to one side only, there is no movement below zero degrees.
Thank you!
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http://www.wallpaper.com/art/andreas-gursk...n-new-york/2792 (http://www.wallpaper.com/art/andreas-gursky-exhibition-new-york/2792)
A $3.34 million price tag is not bad going for a print.
Good on him and it is great PR for Alpa.
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http://www.wallpaper.com/art/andreas-gursk...n-new-york/2792 (http://www.wallpaper.com/art/andreas-gursky-exhibition-new-york/2792)
A $3.34 million price tag is not bad going for a print.
Good on him and it is great PR for Alpa.
Think our friend Andreas got model releases for all of the people in that shot? Probably a lot of identifiable faces in a large print. Not my favorite of his, but someone seems to have been partial to it. With a print that pricey, you probably match the sofa and the drapes to the print, instead of the other way around.
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Probably a lot of identifiable faces in a large print.
you can identify all the faces in that print...
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Think our friend Andreas got model releases for all of the people in that shot? Probably a lot of identifiable faces in a large print. Not my favorite of his, but someone seems to have been partial to it. With a print that pricey, you probably match the sofa and the drapes to the print, instead of the other way around.
Selling art work is not 'commercial' use; you don't need model releases. This has been held up in court on multiple cases, including a recent high-profile case in NY (can't recall the photographer's name off the top of my head).