Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: 32BT on May 27, 2009, 08:39:13 am
-
A humble request
IIRC this site was to get a major overhaul in the near future, so i hope this request is not too late:
Given the nature of this website, I suspect that most viewers here have sensitive eyes. I have noticed many times that I experience difficulty in reading the text on this site and judging images accompanying a piece of text. The problem appears to be that the white text lines on black background seem to produce a severe afterburn effect in my sight, and consequently when I view the images i experience a horizontal pattern overlay of dark and light linings.
So, my questions are these:
1) do other people here experience something similar?
2) what would be your preferred colorscheme?
My personal preference would be something like a medium to light gray background with darkgray text. The text blocks should have as little contrast as is reasonable without compromising readability but at the same time avoiding afterburn, and the gray background would also help judge or value published images properly.
-
A humble reply:
Try using Readable (http://readable-app.appspot.com) - it is quite brilliant and will solve your problem.
Chris S
-
What you are describing sounds like the Phase One Forum. For me, I have black text on a very light blue background, with no options available under the IPB Skin choices except for the default, in the menu at the bottom left of the screen. I'm on a Mac with Firefox and Safari, so I must obviously have a very different system and experience than you.
-
I just hate the fact that this website seems to be the only one on the web designed to be unreadable on a 1048X768 screen and for no reason whatsoever other than to be annoying.
-
Yup. That's right. It's just done to be annoying.
Michael
-
You actually have to specifically design HTML text so that it will need side to side scrolling on a 1048X768 screen. None of the guest articles require it. Just yours. Fancy telling us just what you're achieving by using a specific width for your text?
-
Oscar,
I have dark grey letters (#222) on light blue background, alternating #eef2f7 and #f5f9fd, like Ron. This is how it is in the HTML received from LL, and MSIE displays it this way. It is very good legible.
White letters on a black background is a crime against humanity. I wonder how you managed to get that. Are you using MSIE?
-
The website is clunky (a website tech term), hate the fonts, and colors choices are less than stunning, but, I like the logo. In the end, content trumps those issues. LL is a great resource for a bloke like me. The info provided through MR and posters on this message board is what is important, so, do what you like, just keep the content.
-
White letters on a black background is a crime against humanity. I wonder how you managed to get that. Are you using MSIE?
I'm talking about the main site, not the forum ldo.
If at all possible, a photography related site should NEVER use pastel tints for background colors anywhere since it strongly affects our whitebalance perception. But forum colors aren't always easily customizable, even for a webmaster, and the informational value of these forums far outweights the inconvenience of viewing a pasteltint for too long.
Having said that, i would thus also appreciate the forum colors neutralized, although i do not have a readability issue here obv.
-
I'm talking about the main site, not the forum ldo.
If at all possible, a photography related site should NEVER use pastel tints for background colors anywhere since it strongly affects our whitebalance perception. But forum colors aren't always easily customizable, even for a webmaster, and the informational value of these forums far outweights the inconvenience of viewing a pasteltint for too long.
Having said that, i would thus also appreciate the forum colors neutralized, although i do not have a readability issue here obv.
The main page is very colorful and contrasty, but quite readable on my generic Dell system with the twin 19 inch flat screens. Is it possible that some people's tweaked or customized colors are incompatible?
-
I'm talking about the main site, not the forum ldo
I find that very good legible, because the fonts are large, and most are not white anyway. Plus, the images show the best on black background.
-
I would not favor grey text on a grey background. That is, unless I disabled color management and cranked up the contrast.
-
You actually have to specifically design HTML text so that it will need side to side scrolling on a 1048X768 screen. None of the guest articles require it. Just yours. Fancy telling us just what you're achieving by using a specific width for your text?
Nope! The width of some of the pictures is what forces the actual width. The only explicit tags I see is a left margin of 210px to accomodate the menu, plus a 700px body....
Here's the css controlling the site:
http://luminous-landscape.com/lumino-style.css (http://luminous-landscape.com/lumino-style.css)
-
If at all possible, a photography related site should NEVER use pastel tints for background colors anywhere since it strongly affects our whitebalance perception.
Pretty sure Michael is sitting at his computer giggling about now...you can spend hours talking to him and try to convince him to go with subtle greys and more tasteful colors all to no avail. Michael is quite happy with the Luminous Landscape website and rather disinclined to make those kind of aesthetic concessions. I'm pretty sure Michael doesn't care...so while you can all wring your hands over the design and colors used on this site, I'm pretty sure the chance of things changing substantially are real darn close to zero...
But feel free to kvetch all ya want. It's sometime entertaining (usually not though).
:~)
-
When I read on this site I highlight the text and lower screen brightness, makes it less harsh. Works fine for me.
Michael
-
All you critics should be patient. Several years ago I suggested dating each article (since things change so rapidly), now they are dated.
-
I find the site quite readable and reasonably easy to navigate. Some menus seem to be holdovers from gopher, but you can find what you need, when you need it.
The forum, its navigation and color scheme is similar to many on the net and is probably a canned template that most everybody uses.
-
Nope! The width of some of the pictures is what forces the actual width. The only explicit tags I see is a left margin of 210px to accomodate the menu, plus a 700px body....
Here's the css controlling the site:
http://luminous-landscape.com/lumino-style.css (http://luminous-landscape.com/lumino-style.css)
That's not the only explicit tag; there's also a "min-width: 790px" on each article page, and that's what's forcing readers to horizontally scroll to read the text if the browser window isn't wide.
-
All you critics should be patient. Several years ago I suggested dating each article (since things change so rapidly), now they are dated.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!! You have taken ambiguity to a whole new level... me like!
-
Pretty sure Michael is sitting at his computer giggling about now...you can spend hours talking to him and try to convince him to go with subtle greys and more tasteful colors all to no avail.
LOL, must be the reason then why you 2 have become such good friends: equal amounts of stubbornness!
-
How about Jeff chooses the colour scheme. Super saturated and punch black!
-
The problem appears to be that the white text lines on black background seem to produce a severe afterburn effect in my sight, and consequently when I view the images i experience a horizontal pattern overlay of dark and light linings.
As far as I can see, the text is not white but light gray (#cccccc) - and I really don't have any problem with that. Matter of taste, but I really do find the gray-on-gray text pattern much less legible.
I feel too the black background is needed to display photographs on the screen, or very dark gray at least (#333 or darker).
And of course, Michael chooses what suits his website best!
I wouldn't care that much either if someone would make the same kind of remark on my website (below).
-
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!! You have taken ambiguity to a whole new level... me like!
Ambiguity unintended, but is funny now that I read it differently.
Clarification -
New articles: dated, and up to date.
Old articles: un-dated, and dated.
But you get the point. If a small change like this took years, don't hold your breath waiting for your requests.
-
I'll change the colour scheme. I just need people to complain for another few years.
Michael
-
Back in DOS days, on my first color monitor (all of sixteen different colors available!!!), I found that yellow text on a blue background was easy on the eyes.
-
Back in DOS days, on my first color monitor (all of sixteen different colors available!!!), I found that yellow text on a blue background was easy on the eyes.
I can offer a few reasons:
- Yellow is indeed contrasty against blue.
- You were not distracted by anything else other than the text in DOS.
- At that vintage, your vision probably was able to distinguish yellow from blue.
Ah, the good old days.
-
I just hate the fact that this website seems to be the only one on the web designed to be unreadable on a 1048X768 screen and for no reason whatsoever other than to be annoying.
That's funny.
While I do think this site looks like a refugee from the 90's with lots of tables, a "Frame" look and less than optimal colors, it is after all MR's choice. He did a redesign a few years ago that brought its styling from 1995 to 1998'ish. A positive start, but most know it will never win any "attractive design" awards. Oh well....
Regarding your point however, one might be inclined to ask why you're using a "1048X768" monitor (something I've never heard of before and doesn't exist as far as I know) and complaining about it. Perhaps your problem could be solved by using a 1024X768 monitor, as most "El Cheapo" computers shipped in the last decade came with those as a "free" option. Are you a photographer? Are you too cheap to spend $100 - as that's all it would take considering where you are - and buy a better monitor with higher resolution?
Here ya go sport.. $99.99 shipped.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16824009151 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009151)
-
On my PC, using Fire Fox, I can have it anyway I want.
In Fire Fox, on the top of the page, just go to Tools, Options, there you will find "fonts and colors" Set them anyway you like.
Problem solved.
BTW. I like light color (wheat yellow) text on a black background.
-
BTW. I like light color (wheat yellow) text on a black background.
Ahhh jeeeeze...don't give Michael any ideas huh?
Truth be told, when Michael first launched LuLa (it just celebrated it's 10 birthday recently) the DI industry was still using CRTs and the various sizes and resolutions often dictated that page design for the web have what I would call an EXCESS of built in contrast because of the pixel dithering that CRTs did–which led to a lot of softening in both pages and images on the web. Back then, Michael could make the reasonable argument of "readability" and pretty much win cause the old green/yellow/white/black scheme really did show up even on soft CRTs.
In this day and age where the biggest problems we have with displays is figuring out how to lower the luminance enough to calibrate and profile the damn things is that what was useful (and sometimes needed) on the web in the old days looks garish and are arguably really objectionable on today's displays.
All of which would not contribute enough visual diarrhea to constitute a mass exodus of visual artists from LuLa...which essentially was the point I was trying to make that Michael is seriously giggling (his cohort Chris is also having a good chuckle I would surmise) because while Michael does have an sophisticated aesthetic when it comes to photography and prints, his sense of design of aesthetic is something out of the 1970's. Heck, have you ever seen the shirts Michael wears? What he thinks is hip and trendy is easy to find in thrift shops (a place I sometimes suspect Michael likes to shop at cause he's so friggin' cheep).
All of which comes back to the central theme in this thread...people come here -NOT- for the design aesthetic of the web site but because of the information and the community. Ever notice that Michael's photos look ok even though he does a a really ugly yellow holding rule around the images? Wanna know why? Cause Michael only picks images that look good with a yellow holding rule (DOOOH!!!).
The only way (and I'm really over 1/2 serious here) that this web site would fundamentally change is if monthly unique visitors to the LuLa site monthly fell in numbers a couple months in a row. Now, while sales of "stuff" may have softened...I'll bet the visitor count to the web site hasn't fallen too much (I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually increased in today's economy) because hey, visiting the web site is free (well, except the cost to your eyes if you really, really hate black backgrounds with yellow holding rules!).
-
Keep it up Schewe and I`ll put up a Hawaiian shirt motif as a background.
M
-
I find that after your eyes have just finished bleeding that the color scheme looks best.
-
Keep it up Schewe and I`ll put up a Hawaiian shirt motif as a background.
Cool. . .I have a variety of candidate designs. Just have Chris pull stills from one of our videos!
:~)
-
Fixing a website is like cleaning a garage.
-
Cool. . .I have a variety of candidate designs. Just have Chris pull stills from one of our videos!
:~)
Great idea. And while you're at it, why not provide a set of user-selectable "skins" for the website. Include Schewe's ten best shirts, plus Michael's black with yellow rule for those that hate change oif any sort, and light green on dark green for the True Traditionalist!
-
Fixing a website is like cleaning a garage.
My garage has more junk in it!
-
The problem appears to be that the white text lines on black background seem to produce a severe afterburn effect in my sight, and consequently when I view the images i experience a horizontal pattern overlay of dark and light linings.
I find this true for all sights that have light text on dark background. I can't stand it!
-
Fixing a website is like cleaning a garage.
The solution is simple: know what junk is, and don't put it in them to begin with. Same applies to a photo. KISS.
-
I'll change the colour scheme. I just need people to complain for another few years.
The only way (and I'm really over 1/2 serious here) that this web site would fundamentally change is if monthly unique visitors to the LuLa site monthly fell in numbers a couple months in a row.
and I'm sure regardless of what color scheme is used, someone will not like it either.