Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: christian_raae on April 17, 2009, 07:50:14 am
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Hi
I just wanted to share my excitement.
Got my H3d-22 II two days ago, and I´ve done two shoots with it.
OMG, this camera is really something else.
The IQ is mind blowing, and it really is a delight to work the the H3d house.
If you are considering a H3d, "just do it".
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Enjoy! I think we all remember the excitement after getting our first MFDB
What camera were you using before?
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Something to be said about those 22mpx 9 micron sensors. I have one but in the process of selling it the P25 Plus . I need that extra stop in the P30 plus but still wondering if it is such a great idea. I love these 22 mpx sensors. Enjoy it, the results are certainly worth it.
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Hi
I just wanted to share my excitement.
Got my H3d-22 II two days ago, and I´ve done two shoots with it.
OMG, this camera is really something else.
The IQ is mind blowing, and it really is a delight to work the the H3d house.
If you are considering a H3d, "just do it".
I'd love to hear more thoughts from you... I'm in the "torn between phase and hassie" stage. I'm buying in about 2 weeks and am setting tests up with dealers... so I'll see for myself, but would love more thoughts on the 22. It's not available here, other than by ordering from denmark, so I'll actually be testing the ii-31... but am most interested in the 22.
As it stands, I'm heading towards the p25+, but the hassie seems really well suited for me as well.
thanks,
shelby
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I`ve used the Hbl 503 CWD before, so this is not my first DMFB.
I like the H3d because the system is seamless. The back and the house comes in one, which really makes a difference.
The IQ is breathtaking, and outperformances my CFV back.
The Mk II display is actually quite good.
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Congratulations on your purchase. I agree that the quality is great. I am shooting with an Imacon 528c model (22MP, same sensor size) and even though my back is 2-3 generations old, you can clearly see the benefits. It is unbelievably smooth (too much I would say). Higher resolution models seem to have some noise issues (read http://www.hasselbladusa.com/user-showcase...ten-qvale.aspx) (http://www.hasselbladusa.com/user-showcase/morten-qvale.aspx))
Best,
Evangelos
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Congratulations on your new kit. I'm shooting a P25+ (22MP) and love it. (Same sensor as the Hassie.)
Cheers!
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Congratulations on your purchase. I agree that the quality is great. I am shooting with an Imacon 528c model (22MP, same sensor size) and even though my back is 2-3 generations old, you can clearly see the benefits. It is unbelievably smooth (too much I would say). Higher resolution models seem to have some noise issues (read http://www.hasselbladusa.com/user-showcase...ten-qvale.aspx) (http://www.hasselbladusa.com/user-showcase/morten-qvale.aspx))
Best,
Evangelos
I use both system and they are comparable to each other, H3D system has the automatic lens correction which is handy but it was not something you can't do in Capture One with Phase backs, but I think Capture Pro still has very little edge over Phocus with their HDR adjustment, but otherwise I don't see a meaningful difference with either system, it will eventually be a subjective preference. And SInar/Leaf on the other hand, is also easily comparable with the 2, with Hy6 + lenses is probably the current lead in medium format system in my point of view, although many may disagree. I think the limitation for quality is no longer digital back/camera dependent, it is the photographer himself.
Regards, K
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Snip...
I think the limitation for quality is no longer digital back/camera dependent, it is the photographer himself.
Regards, K
This is the meaningful statement, appropriate to so many threads. Oh, IMO, of course.
Well said, Khun K.
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[quote name='christian_raae' post='277050' date='Apr 17 2009, 05:20 PM']Hi
congrats! enjoy
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I`ve used the Hbl 503 CWD before, so this is not my first DMFB.
I like the H3d because the system is seamless. The back and the house comes in one, which really makes a difference.
The IQ is breathtaking, and outperformances my CFV back.
The Mk II display is actually quite good.
congrats! show us some of ur sample image
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Something to be said about those 22mpx 9 micron sensors. I have one but in the process of selling it the P25 Plus . I need that extra stop in the P30 plus but still wondering if it is such a great idea. I love these 22 mpx sensors. Enjoy it, the results are certainly worth it.
Why not wait just a little bit longer for the P30+ replacement.
I imagine it's imminent, if only as preemptive strike against Leica S2.
BJL talked about this 40MP sensor back in late September:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....mp;#entry225775 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27105&st=420&p=225775&#entry225775)
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Pricing Billy not sure what it will come in at but not in a major hurry either. I still love this back and i am really only after two things ISO 1600 and just a little faster shooting speed. Frankly a D700 would do that for what those needs are for. But I really don't want a DSLR either. The S2 is a wet dream, it will be priced out of the ballpark. Even the estimates for it are too high. I also think some OEM will smoke it before it even is released. I got a dozen donut bet on that one.
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I also think some OEM will smoke it before it even is released. I got a dozen donut bet on that one.
I wouldn't take that bet.
If anyone knows the Phase One roadmap, it's you (and Michael, too).
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Hi
I just wanted to share my excitement....
What I love about the original post is that it embodies that surge of joy, discovery and creation that we all experience the first time we picked up a good digital camera. Somehow that's gone missing. I LOVED shooting with my 10D. I tolerate my 5DII. WTF? I have a loaner HD2-39 sitting here, and all I do is grouse about the shortcomings in lens ergonomics and the impenetrability of the software....
The thing can produce insane images of higher size and quality than I'll ever need....so why am I not impregnated with joy?? Why do I sit and contemplate buying a 500C/M and a 150 sonnar on ebay to shoot some TXP?
What the heck is wrong with us?
- N.
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What I love about the original post is that it embodies that surge of joy, discovery and creation that we all experience the first time we picked up a good digital camera. Somehow that's gone missing. I LOVED shooting with my 10D. I tolerate my 5DII. WTF? I have a loaner HD2-39 sitting here, and all I do is grouse about the shortcomings in lens ergonomics and the impenetrability of the software....
The thing can produce insane images of higher size and quality than I'll ever need....so why am I not impregnated with joy?? Why do I sit and contemplate buying a 500C/M and a 150 sonnar on ebay to shoot some TXP?
What the heck is wrong with us?
- N.
I guess digital photography made it too easy... not too long ago, you would need to shoot 4x5 TMAX or Delta 100 to get the same quality/clarity... use a LF camera, develop your own film and watch in anticipation as you opened the tank at the end of the wash cycle to see what you got... Now you get it within a second. It makes sense commercially, but it cheapens the whole process.
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The thing can produce insane images of higher size and quality than I'll ever need....so why am I not impregnated with joy?? Why do I sit and contemplate buying a 500C/M and a 150 sonnar on ebay to shoot some TXP?
Do it, Nick. I have shot a fair amount of Tri-X and TMax400 recently, in Hasselblad 2000FC/M, Contax 645 and Leica M6 cameras, and it gives you a new (old?) perspective on photography. Of course I still shoot digital, and it will probably continue to be the majority of my photography, but putting a few films through a 'real' camera does connect me again.
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I have Phase/afd AND got a 500 c/m on eBay to shoot film... I got the same syndrome ..
What I love about the original post is that it embodies that surge of joy, discovery and creation that we all experience the first time we picked up a good digital camera. Somehow that's gone missing. I LOVED shooting with my 10D. I tolerate my 5DII. WTF? I have a loaner HD2-39 sitting here, and all I do is grouse about the shortcomings in lens ergonomics and the impenetrability of the software....
The thing can produce insane images of higher size and quality than I'll ever need....so why am I not impregnated with joy?? Why do I sit and contemplate buying a 500C/M and a 150 sonnar on ebay to shoot some TXP?
What the heck is wrong with us?
- N.
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This is from my first action shoot with the H3D.
Got a fashion shot tomorrow, can´t wait !
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I guess digital photography made it too easy... not too long ago, you would need to shoot 4x5 TMAX or Delta 100 to get the same quality/clarity... use a LF camera, develop your own film and watch in anticipation as you opened the tank at the end of the wash cycle to see what you got... Now you get it within a second. It makes sense commercially, but it cheapens the whole process.
Technically, if we were happy with film enlarged 10*, and we are happy with digital printed at not less than 240 or 360 original camera pixels per print inch, the H3D11 - 50 is only as good as 6*9 film.
Some of us try to do more with digital than was ever possible with film, rather than "cheapening the whole process".
It would have been nice if they had:
thought about hand holding the camera any way up with one hand (for off camera flash, under-camera fill-flash, portrait)
Enabled the live video on the 50.
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This is from my first action shoot with the H3D.
Got a fashion shot tomorrow, can´t wait !
Don't forget to concentrate on the subject!
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Don't forget to concentrate on the subject!
It´s going to be hard!
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The thing can produce insane images of higher size and quality than I'll ever need....
- N.
Maybe you will never need Hi-res images, but I am making do with the 50 on the promise that they will let me upgrade to the 60 when it comes out, but what I really want is the Seitz 617 160 Megapixel back for the Sinar.... high res and full movements!
I want to produce pictures that will be the focal point in the main room of million pound houses, and will not look rough when printed 8 feet (2.5m) high on a mural or at the back of a trade stand at the NEC (Birmingham UK).
I have had my H3D11-50 for a few weeks ( my first digital camera apart from a 12Mpx Leica D-Lux 3) and I am awaiting, with enthusiasm, the arrival of my Sinar P3 conversion set, P3 lensboards etc. (to use with my Apo-digitars) to enable me to take some nice pictures.
Shame I did not know that the Sinar 50Mpx back was coming out, because, i think, for view camera work, Sinar is better.
The H3D11-50 is a Digital Capture Unit with a point-and-shoot adapter, but I find that
"the photographer is the limitation"
If I do not use it on a tripod with the mirror locked up, or with flash: you do not need much camera shake to make a 50 Megapixel picture no better than 25Mpx!
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Shame I did not know that the Sinar 50Mpx back was coming out, because, i think, for view camera work, Sinar is better.
Oh, where did you hear about a new Sinar 50 MP back?
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Shame I did not know that the Sinar 50Mpx back was coming out, because, i think, for view camera work, Sinar is better.
Is it multi-shot, and Dalsa sensor?
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Oh, where did you hear about a new Sinar 50 MP back?
Sinar announced at Photokina 2008 and Thierry confirmed a system based on the Dalsa chip is due for release approx mid year. Will be interesting to see if some of the technologies from the innovative Sinar Hy6-s65r will trickle down into the next generation cameras e.g. DNG+selectable sized JPG's or RAW+JPG workflow, revolving adapter, high contrast 3" LCD screen, digital image processing onboard and possible remote image preview via apple ipod/iphone as Leaf and Sinar are sharing resources.
Be interesting to see what will eventuate, maybe Thierry can offer an update
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hi David,
I can't honestly remember having confirmed such (50 MPx sensor) and Sinar did not announce it either during PK '08. The only new back which was announced at PK by Sinar, and confirmed by me, was a 56 MPx based on the Leaf technology.
That was the information until I have left, end of February.
Best regards,
Thierry
Sinar announced at Photokina 2008 and Thierry confirmed a system based on the Dalsa chip is due for release approx mid year. Will be interesting to see if some of the technologies from the innovative Sinar Hy6-s65r will trickle down into the next generation cameras e.g. DNG+selectable sized JPG's or RAW+JPG workflow, revolving adapter, high contrast 3" LCD screen, digital image processing onboard and possible remote image preview via apple ipod/iphone as Leaf and Sinar are sharing resources.
Be interesting to see what will eventuate, maybe Thierry can offer an update
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This is from my first action shoot with the H3D.
Got a fashion shot tomorrow, can´t wait !
How did it go?
What lens(es) do you have?
What do you think of the auto-focus?
Have you tried auto-focus with Metz flashes?
In a bright studio environment, the built-in auto-focus might be OK, but in normal room light (with the 50-110 zoom) I find it less than ideal.
The Metz flashes have an additional red beam which seems to help.
Using 2 Metz MZ 75s and two MZ 76s seems to work very well in most circumstances, and is portable and quick to set up: but the TTL remote only works at 1/60th and slower, so it might be difficult to eliminate ambient in some situations.
One could use the Metz flash focus beam without using the flash....
On camera flash produces "photo-journalist" awful flat lighting and hard shadows (bounce helps, but why do wedding photographers use it?) but I usually use the wired flash as low-level fill-in, and use the other three flashes wireless TTL remote.
Has anyone any experience with the new TTL Pocket Wizards?
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Hello,
I think I know what the answer to your question is (see quote below): why you long to shoot film and what's wrong. As the new - and extremely pleased! - owner of a Leaf Afi-ii 7, I will share my thoughts:
when you were shooting film with any decent camera (I use the Rollei 6008 and a Linhof 4x5), you were using a technology that was stable and dependable. When you bought a good camera with a great lens in medium or large format you were going to use it, without problems or having to think about it much, for the next ten years easily. My first Rollei SL66 that I bought in 1971 was in use until 2004 with whatever lenses I picked up along the way. It worked, films were good, the optics were good and I along with many others made photographs that will stand the test of time. Now the basic technology is ever changing, requiring you to constantly evaluate technique, equipment and approach - and you can still only make great images with it, which is all you could make before when you were doing your very best.
It is true that much is now easier, but the price is *a lot of money* and the pace of change requires a * lot of energy* that might formerly have gone entirely into the creative side of imaging. No wonder you long for that stability!
That said, I will now praise the Leaf: I am making images that easily equal or surpass 4x5. When printed, everyone who knows my work assumes they must be 4x5. The quality entices me to work and to make images that depend on fine tonality and subtlety to be successful. The images are sharper and more brilliant, with greater depth in shadow areas, than anything I've ever produced before. Those rgb images transformed to B&W have the luminance of 4x5 Panatomic-X which hasn't been available for some 30 years. The prints I make with my Epson 9800 in B&W on Museo Rag rival prints made on silver rich paper like the old Portriga Rapid. I didn't set out to emulate those old standards- I'm doing other kinds of images now - but I'm staggered by the ability to do so and it is changing the way I approach image making. The ability of the Leaf to capture fine detail and a wide dynamic range is simply staggering. Using it is as close as I can get to the way I felt when I picked up my original Rollei SL66 and made images, the feel of holding a perfectly crafted tool that challenges my vision and ability. So that at the moment feels like adequate compensation for the loss of that stability - but if you concentrate on making images and don't get caught up in the equipment race, you might enjoy photography more - and i think that's always been true.
Neil Folberg
By the way, you were all discussing a Hasselblad and I'm sure that's similar. I didn't test all of these cameras - can't make comparisons.
[quote name='ndevlin' date='Apr 18 2009, 03:18 PM' post='277289']
"What I love about the original post is that it embodies that surge of joy, discovery and creation that we all experience the first time we picked up a good digital camera. Somehow that's gone missing. I LOVED shooting with my 10D. I tolerate my 5DII. WTF? I have a loaner HD2-39 sitting here, and all I do is grouse about the shortcomings in lens ergonomics and the impenetrability of the software....
The thing can produce insane images of higher size and quality than I'll ever need....so why am I not impregnated with joy?? Why do I sit and contemplate buying a 500C/M and a 150 sonnar on ebay to shoot some TXP?
What the heck is wrong with us?"
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Intend to visit your gallery one day soon Neil, been putting it off too long. I aspire to be like you one day..
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hi David,
I can't honestly remember having confirmed such (50 MPx sensor) and Sinar did not announce it either during PK '08. The only new back which was announced at PK by Sinar, and confirmed by me, was a 56 MPx based on the Leaf technology.
That was the information until I have left, end of February.
Best regards,
Thierry
Hi Thierry,
I was referring to the upcoming Sinar camera confirmed by you, "We have announced this Sinar branded 56 MPx back during Photokina, It will be available at about the same time as the Leaf version, integrated into the Sinar eXposure software. Nothing more at the current stage."
Will it share similar features from the Hy6 s65r? any specs or release date?
Cheers
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The fashion photo shoot went good.
A couple of comments though. The AF feels a bit hunting, and is really just working fine when you have a clean composition. You sort of have to back the AF up with manual focus, but that´s just medium format I guess.
The color and dynamic range is really something else, and the files looks good already straight out of the camera, nothing like D3 or 5D, or even the CFV back which I´ve worked with before.
There´s also more "3D" feel to the shots, can´t really explain it more.
I´ve attached 1 of the files from the shoot, it comes straight of the camera with no post work just to illustrate the potential of the files.
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The fashion photo shoot went good.
A couple of comments though. The AF feels a bit hunting, and is really just working fine when you have a clean composition. You sort of have to back the AF up with manual focus, but that´s just medium format I guess.
The color and dynamic range is really something else, and the files looks good already straight out of the camera, nothing like D3 or 5D, or even the CFV back which I´ve worked with before.
There´s also more "3D" feel to the shots, can´t really explain it more.
I´ve attached 1 of the files from the shoot, it comes straight of the camera with no post work just to illustrate the potential of the files.
Looks nice for a file straight out of the camera
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Alright David, in this case we are speaking about the same. I was left with the belief you were speaking about another 50 MPx sensor/back.
Concerning the 56 MPx: I do not have any more information since not longer working for them. Nor do I know if and what it may share from the Hy6 s65r specs and features.
Best regards,
Thierry
Hi Thierry,
I was referring to the upcoming Sinar camera confirmed by you, "We have announced this Sinar branded 56 MPx back during Photokina, It will be available at about the same time as the Leaf version, integrated into the Sinar eXposure software. Nothing more at the current stage."
Will it share similar features from the Hy6 s65r? any specs or release date?
Cheers
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I´ve attached 1 of the files from the shoot, it comes straight of the camera with no post work
Do you mean you processed the image in Phocus with default settings? Not the same thing Most applications apply a curve by default, and white balance, sharpening or noise reduction etc.
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Do you mean you processed the image in Phocus with default settings? Not the same thing Most applications apply a curve by default, and white balance, sharpening or noise reduction etc.
Imported in Flexcolor, exported DNG to ACR, open "as shot".
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Imported in Flexcolor, exported DNG to ACR, open "as shot".
Aha, well nice to hear you are enjoying the camera. Ha det hyggelig