Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: lisa_r on February 26, 2009, 03:01:06 pm
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Any of y'all checked out this camera yet?
I looked on the Leaf site, but could not figure out where to download images from this back...
Anyone know where I can find some?
thanks.
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Any of y'all checked out this camera yet?
I looked on the Leaf site, but could not figure out where to download images from this back...
Anyone know where I can find some?
thanks.
The DL-28 is a Mamiya AFDIII with a Leaf digital back marketed as a bundle by MAC Group US which distributes both Leaf and Mamiya (and Profoto, Sekonic etc etc). It does not have any higher level of integration, or anything special that is different from the Leaf back purchased alone and the AFD III purchased alone except a lower bundle price and a bundle name (the DL-28).
If you are looking at the DL-28 because it is a complete solution at an entry-level price then you've started looking in a good place. I have nothing bad to say about Leaf nor Mamiya; however, I do hope you will continue looking at other options from Leaf, Phase One, Sinar, and Hasselblad. There are many good options, and they vary in both obvious and subtle ways.
For instance Phase One brands an AFDIII under their own name "Phase One AF" though only the warranty/support and bundle price differs from a Mamiya AFDIII sold separately. You'll find the raw files themselves, when properly handled, will be very close from each digital back manufacturer, so please consider the surrounding ecosystem of dealer support, service, warranty, accessories, forward compatibility and upgrade paths, and software workflow. Once you've made your purchase it is these areas which will define your experience.
Especially if you are new to MFD I highly recommend finding a dealer, whether it is us, some other dealer on this board, or someone else entirely. The good dealers can be very very helpful in sorting fact from fiction and showing/renting/loaning you equipment so you can see the quality and workflow for yourself.
*Disclaimer I work at a Phase One dealer and so am biased that way. Though I do earnestly think Phase One is the best option.*
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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I was offered a lightly used P30+ with Value Added the other day for $13,000. Is that a good price?
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Any of y'all checked out this camera yet?
I looked on the Leaf site, but could not figure out where to download images from this back...
Anyone know where I can find some?
thanks.
Lisa hi I can send you some files, please let me know if there is any specific type of images that you are after and if you need raw or processed files.
Four pluses for the DL-28 are image quality, speed, compatibility with view cameras and MAC group's excellent service.
BR
Yair
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I was offered a lightly used P30+ with Value Added the other day for $13,000. Is that a good price?
Seems a bit much to me, you can get a used P21 for about 6000 on ebay and no-one has ever demonstrated or even claimed actually that the plus backs have any real advantage over the non plus backs, I tested one myself and could see no advantage. Unless your regularly making prints over 13 * 16 ish a P21 second hand could be a cheaper option that is just as good. I hear the non plus P30's second hand can be had for around 6500 ish too. I use a P21 and I love it, I paid about 12 grand for it new about a year and a half ago.
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Seems a bit much to me, you can get a used P21 for about 6000 on ebay and no-one has ever demonstrated or even claimed actually that the plus backs have any real advantage over the non plus backs, I tested one myself and could see no advantage. Unless your regularly making prints over 13 * 16 ish a P21 second hand could be a cheaper option that is just as good. I hear the non plus P30's second hand can be had for around 6500 ish too. I use a P21 and I love it, I paid about 12 grand for it new about a year and a half ago.
Excellent Woof, thanks for the info. The $13K offer was from a dealer, so I assumed there was probably some substantial markup.
Guess these are the specs?
P 21+
Imaging technology
CCD: Less than full frame CCD
Lens Factor: 1.3
Resolution: 18 mega pixels
Active pixels: 4904 x 3678 pixels
CCD size effective: 44.2 x 33.1 mm
Pixel size: 9 x 9
Image ratio: 4:3
Microlens on CCD: Yes
Antiblooming: 10 f-stops
Dynamic range: 12 f-stops
Another question: are there any advantages as to D.R. on the new backs? Stability? DO the new backs come with C1 Pro?
Thanks!
***another quick question...I am sure these are answered elsewhere, but I don;t have time to go through hundreds of threads: differences between H1 and H2?
And , I have found a listing on ebay for the following:
Hasselblad H1 Kit with Phase One P30 Back
50K actuations, no warranty.
What might this be worth??
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Seems a bit much to me, you can get a used P21 for about 6000 on ebay and no-one has ever demonstrated or even claimed actually that the plus backs have any real advantage over the non plus backs, I tested one myself and could see no advantage. Unless your regularly making prints over 13 * 16 ish a P21 second hand could be a cheaper option that is just as good. I hear the non plus P30's second hand can be had for around 6500 ish too. I use a P21 and I love it, I paid about 12 grand for it new about a year and a half ago.
Normally Phase backs for Hasselblad go cheaper than those for Mamiya on the used market. Simply because who is a bit on a budget, are not going to get involved with hasselblad and then having to buy lenses.
BTW for 6500$ I doubt it is possible to get a slightly used P30 back, normally those deals have at least 50k actuations. I know that actuations on a DB are not relevant because there is not wear and tear, but yet there still is wear and tear on all the menu buttons, contacts and plate, a part for cosmetics blemishes. most of those backs on ebay are far from immaculate.
And buying from a reputable dealer there is always the possibility that if something goes wrong, you are not on your own. I think even the deal from calumet on ebay do not have any warranty BTW, and probably they are all backs used from rental. I would not buy anything used for rental before.
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Excellent Woof, thanks for the info. The $13K offer was from a dealer, so I assumed there was probably some substantial markup.
You mean the dealer was trying to make a profit. This is still ok, yes?
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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You mean the dealer was trying to make a profit. This is still ok, yes?
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
Do I want to pay a $4000 markup? Er, no. (That's 44%)
Anyway I don't want to argue about it Steve. Just want to know what prices others here are seeing. Thanks.
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Do I want to pay a $4000 markup? Er, no. (That's 44%)
When dealers and manufacturers don't make a profit they go out of business and take with them things like service, support and even the web presence that so many members enjoy here.
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Do I want to pay a $4000 markup? Er, no. (That's 44%)
Anyway I don't want to argue about it Steve. Just want to know what prices others here are seeing. Thanks.
Lisa:
I certainly am not trying to start an argument. But you indicated a "substantial markup" as if it was a bad thing.
And I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion the profit margin is "substantial".
I've seen much comparison of dealer prices vs eBay prices, used prices, etc lately.
To be clear, if someone wants to buy a used Phase One product, by all means go ahead. I have no quarrel with that.
But to compare used pricing to what a dealer sells a product for and then earmark the margin of the dealer negatively is to me completely unfair.
Everyone knows what buying from a warrantied product from a quality dealer gets you, so I won't go into every bit of detail. There are some who feel the extra price of fully supported new vs unsupported used is not worth it. They've likely been lucky. Others, who have had the occasion to require the support in critical situations probably have a different perspective.
While many buy used because you can save some money, the vast majority of purchasers buy new and invest in the product and everything that comes with it.
I have no problem with any decision that someone makes for new or used, but I do have a problem when used pricing is used to quantify the amount of a dealer's markup. That is an extremely inaccurate barometer.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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But to compare used pricing to what a dealer sells a product for and then earmark the margin of the dealer negatively is to me completely unfair.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
Thanks for you input Steve. I was comparing used price cited in this thread to used price from a dealer in my neighborhood. I don; think that is unfair.
Of course everyone has a right to profit. But I have a right to find a good deal too. Especially when friends of mine are losing clients right and left is this busted economy.
Steve: "Everyone knows what buying from a warrantied product from a quality dealer gets you, "
I am honestly still not clear as to what the "service" is going to do for me. If I am on a job and the thing breaks, waiting for a backup to arrive from the dealer is obviously not an option. (I dust off my Canon and use that...)
So what am I gaining? Clearly I can pack up the back and ship it to Phase/Leaf myself if it breaks (without dealer involvement), right? When my Canon breaks, I put it in a box and send it to Canon on Monday, and I have it back by that Friday, fixed. From my perspective, where is the $4000 advantage with the back dealer vs. ebay? This is a serious question, by the way.
And I may get the back from a dealer, I just want a better price. Or Ebay looks pretty good.
*I will ask if they will give out loaners even if nothing breaks. Like maybe I could have one to take on trips out of town, for just in case. (like a free rental.) Now that would be worth some money.
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I am honestly still not clear as to what the "service" is going to do for me. If I am on a job and the thing breaks, waiting for a backup to arrive from the dealer is obviously not an option. (I dust off my Canon and use that...)
So what am I gaining?
Lisa,
Please don't paint all dealers with the same tar brush. We, for one offer a complete on-site (if needed) loaner as an added service to the manufacturer's warranty. We have tech support from 8 am to 6 pm officially, but I can't count the number of weekend, night and early morning calls I answer when a client has a problem. I personally have "saved" many multi thousand dollar shoots with phone support at off hours....many, many times the difference in cost of buying a used back privately. Oh, and by the way, we have at least 6 different people you can call for support. Quite a difference from trying to find the guy you bought from on e bay that may or may not even be real.
A dealer, quite often offers warranty even on used equipment. Dealers have return policies. If something does not work, shows up damaged or is missing a part you have recourse. Try getting your money back on something that is not right through a private sale. I seem to recall a recent thread on this very forum that deals with just such a matter.
Furthermore, you're gaining a relationship with someone you can trust to give you the right advice, help with things like demonstrating equipment you're thinking of adding to your toolbox (possibly even loaning it to you so you can test it on your own time), also an ombudsman of sorts that will go to bat for you with a manufacturer should you need it.
You said "I have the right to find a good deal" I say you also have the right to find the best VALUE.
In the end you'll decide for yourself what you want to do.
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Thanks for you input Steve. I was comparing used price cited in this thread to used price from a dealer in my neighborhood. I don; think that is unfair.
Of course everyone has a right to profit. But I have a right to find a good deal too. Especially when friends of mine are losing clients right and left is this busted economy.
Steve: "Everyone knows what buying from a warrantied product from a quality dealer gets you, "
I am honestly still not clear as to what the "service" is going to do for me. If I am on a job and the thing breaks, waiting for a backup to arrive from the dealer is obviously not an option. (I dust off my Canon and use that...)
So what am I gaining? Clearly I can pack up the back and ship it to Phase/Leaf myself if it breaks (without dealer involvement), right? When my Canon breaks, I put it in a box and send it to Canon on Monday, and I have it back by that Friday, fixed. From my perspective, where is the $4000 advantage with the back dealer vs. ebay? This is a serious question, by the way.
And I may get the back from a dealer, I just want a better price. Or Ebay looks pretty good.
Lisa, I understand what you're saying. If you had said the dealer's used price was $4,000 higher than the end user's used price, instead of a "markup", I wouldn't have even mentioned it. The word "markup" stung my ear a bit, so I just wanted some clarification, which you've provided - thanks. Using the literal nature of the term "markup" is not applicable when there is no established cost to the seller, which is what the end user lacks. But again, even comparing an end user price to a dealer's used price is slightly misleading. Because an end user sells used for many reasons - and the sale of that used product is not the primary revenue vehicle for their business, nor is there any obligation on the part of the end user towards the performance of that product once it leaves their hands. The dealer, instead, still has a set cost of that product - used or new - and the sale of that product is indeed their primary means of revenue. And they are obligated to you for the performance of that product as long as you own it.
In my experience as a dealer, I was told numerous times the following exact words:
"I'm so glad I bought from you."
This was typically uttered after something happened, but what happened varied tremendously. Sometimes, it was an issue with the product itself, or some accessory of the product, or a software or firmware update, or just ongoing attention to helping to improve the overall workflow using the product during its lifecycle. This all sounds very vague, and not tremendously profound. But all I can say is that customers stated this in those exact terms in a heart-felt manner.
It's actually hard to describe the benefits, when you put it down on paper. It just doesn't translate that way. And it's kind of where, many customers never really find themselves in a position where they have to take advantage of what the dealer provides them. But in the case of customers who have had to, there is unquestioned relief they went in that direction. It is like insurance, in that way.
But if someone feels the money saved is worth the lack of that specific level of care, I don't have a disagreement. Everyone is different, everyone values things differently.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Lisa,
Please don't paint all dealers with the same tar brush
No tar brush here, just asking where the value is.
For the record, I have great relationships with dealers here in NYC. I have accounts with 3 of them, where I stock two studios with cameras, computers, hard drives, etc., etc., etc. I have no issue with supporting dealers, but this Value Added thing for the backs has me somewhat puzzled. It looks like a steep price for the same service that they provide me for everything else I buy there. I don't have to pay "value added" to get Irwin at Calumet to answer questions about the Macs I bought there.
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I don't have to pay "value added" to get Irwin at Calumet to answer questions about the Macs I bought there.
Compared to paying the price you would pay to an end user for a used Mac, yes you do.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Compared to paying the price you would pay to an end user for a used Mac, yes you do.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
Sure, but what is the difference in price between buying the back new with versus without the Value Added? To get what appears to be the same level of service the dealer provides with everything else they sell EXCEPT the backs...
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I don't have to pay "value added" to get Irwin at Calumet to answer questions about the Macs I bought there.
Lisa,
The fact that Irwin charges "value added" on some products allows him to give you that support on the Macs at no charge.
I hate to be crass, but the money's gotta come from somewhere.
As much as we'd like it, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Not for customers, and not for dealers.
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Sure, but what is the difference in price between buying the back new with versus without the Value Added? To get what appears to be the same level of service the dealer provides with everything else they sell EXCEPT the backs...
Lisa,
The value added warranty from Phase One is not about dealer support, its about being covered for a full three years, getting a loaner back from Phase One if yours needs a repair, extra batteries, C1 Pro vs. DB software, a better case for the equipment and a number of other accessories that coem with it.
Lets not confuse that with the value a reputable dealer provides on other matters.
EDIT: Almost forgot to answer your question. In Canadian dollars, the difference in price between buying a classic warranty and a value added warranty Phase One back is about $3000
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I am honestly still not clear as to what the "service" is going to do for me. If I am on a job and the thing breaks, waiting for a backup to arrive from the dealer is obviously not an option. (I dust off my Canon and use that...)
So what am I gaining? Clearly I can pack up the back and ship it to Phase/Leaf myself if it breaks (without dealer involvement), right? When my Canon breaks, I put it in a box and send it to Canon on Monday, and I have it back by that Friday, fixed. From my perspective, where is the $4000 advantage with the back dealer vs. ebay? This is a serious question, by the way.
I know you are asking in a serious way so I will give you a serious answer.
I would say less than 10% of the calls I get for support/service end up with a digital back being sent in for repair. Digital backs break of course; anything can. But the vast vast majority of the time the issue that caused the call was a software update, a software setting, a bad firewire cable, a depleted battery, a firmware incompatibility, a missing accessory, a bad software activation or installation, a camera setting, misunderstood operating expectations, computer hardware, or other non-digital back issue. Very often these are calls from experienced digital techs or photographers who are familiar with their backs and are not new to digital and may even be active forum members. Most of these issues I know the answer to before the person has even finished explaining their problem.
In other words most of the time (90%) you're on a job and your camera "breaks" the solution is not a loaner.
A great example is if you plug in your canon to two computers and it doesn't connect to Capture One or Canon's tethering utility you may think it's broken. Chances are probably 10-to-1 that the Canon is fine and you just haven't heard about the Type8Camera file which needs to be deleted from the OS prior to connecting a Canon to a computer for the first time. When you do it all yourself and send it in for service and get it back a week later and the problem is still there you will have lost shipping, rental fees for your replacement (which would not have worked because the problem was with the OS), and a week of time, and probably a lot of hair. Or if you had me (or to their credit many of the other dealers on this site, and off of it) as a dealer it would have taken two minutes on the phone. I only give this as one example. Obviously since this problem has been around for many months most people know about this specific one. But I knew about the problem right away because I'm in direct contact with the Head of Tech Support for Capture One. Also, because I do support for a support-oriented dealer I received several of these calls in one day and therefore knew for sure that the problem coincided with the OSX update. I had my users up and running again right away.
In fact now that I think about it 10% may be too high.
This is one of the reasons why most of the support for MFD goes through the dealer network. When a customer calls I generally already know their name, what they shoot, what things they likely have checked and what things they have not checked. I may even know what backup equipment they have and based on prior experience what they will have on hand to troubleshoot with.
So yes, you can send your back into Phase/Leaf yourself, but that will be the least of your concerns. Especially since it sounds like you don't have a large amount of prior experience in medium format digital. Having a partner who has helped (and continues to support) hundreds of people just like you do what you're about to do for the first time has a very high inherit value.
Then on top of support throw in training. What's the rule of thumb for minimum shutter speed shooting to prevent camera shake? Did you answer 1/focal-length (e.g. 1/60th for a 50mm lens)? If so then you're in for a lot of blurry medium format images. The rule of thumb in medium format digital is at least double that and we recommend testing yourself to see what you can achieve at various stances. Again, that is one specific example, but when you buy from a support-oriented dealer you receive from them the accumulated knowledge and experience of hundreds of people who have made mistakes; you'll be using your gear to the best of it's ability much faster than going it on your own. And while the forums are a great place to read and learn, there is a lot of poorly informed guidance on the forums. In addition to general hardware training our company, at least, offers one-on-one or group training for Capture One (depending on the need of the customer) as part of packages on a regular basis. Taking our classes will save you literally days of stumbling around the software trying to get used to it. "O I'll just use Photoshop or Lightroom" you say? Exactly, go ahead; it's compatible, but you won't be getting the most out of your very expensive camera system.
I could go on and on and on (and have on several threads).
Of course, I work for a dealer; so I'm openly biased. Please consult with others who have made similar switches. Ask our customers if they think they have gotten their money's worth. That's the proof. You'll probably find a small handful who are not happy (no company has 100% satisfaction), but you will find hundreds more who are very happy they went through a dealer.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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Thanks a lot Doug! What you have described makes more sense now. I wonder if tricks like you have used as examples here are in the manuals...seems like they should be. Of course whether or not people actually read the manuals is another story ;-)
For the record, I have owned two Leaf backs in the past, but have been shooting primarily Canon for the past 4 years or so.
I guess if you do have dealers who know their stuff this is worth some money. Not sure how much though. One of the dealers I have been working with (not Calumet) - when I went in to test the Phase P30 last year, he could not keep the camera connected, had the wrong viewfinder mask installed, battery died, etc...it was not impressive. Not the guy I would like to get on the phone if I am in a bind on a high pressure shoot.
Anyway, thanks all. I think I have enough info now to make some decisions.
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Thanks a lot Doug! What you have described makes more sense now. I wonder if tricks like you have used as examples here are in the manuals...seems like they should be. Of course whether or not people actually read the manuals is another story ;-)
By the time the manual is written it is already out of date. 10.5.2 (released Feb 10th) is what caused the Canon dSLR tethering issue that I used as an example. So Feb 10th the problem did not exist and on Feb 11th it did. If you either updated your computer (and it's always a good idea to hold off on any update until it's been in the field a few weeks) or rented a computer which had been updated then there was no manual in the world that would or could have saved you.
In digital things move very fast.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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You can have your camera back in 5 days from canon with shipping???????
Doubt it. Very Highly. I live 20 min from their repair in NJ, before I dumped canon I would drop off gear and never have it back in less then 10 days even for a cleaning of sensor. From what I hear, Canon is rolling downhill quite fast on all fronts. I sold all my gear after spending a lot of time with the 5D MkII. Next day, sold my 10years plus worth of gear because I was fed up. There is a lot of different views to be made for the OP but Canon Service is not one of them.....
Now, the DL28. I demo'ed this camera and had it for two weeks. The Leaf 65s back was just simply outstanding on all fronts. The AFDIII was quite the opposite. The shutter lag drove me nutz which I understand is better now with the 1.5 upgrade. But be aware, to upgrade the AFDIII you have to send the body back to Elmsford, NY and it's a bit of a process to get 'er done. I had to be done with it as it was not for me. (the AFDIII is the PhaseOne DL28 body)
t
Thanks for you input Steve. I was comparing used price cited in this thread to used price from a dealer in my neighborhood. I don; think that is unfair.
Of course everyone has a right to profit. But I have a right to find a good deal too. Especially when friends of mine are losing clients right and left is this busted economy.
Steve: "Everyone knows what buying from a warrantied product from a quality dealer gets you, "
I am honestly still not clear as to what the "service" is going to do for me. If I am on a job and the thing breaks, waiting for a backup to arrive from the dealer is obviously not an option. (I dust off my Canon and use that...)
So what am I gaining? Clearly I can pack up the back and ship it to Phase/Leaf myself if it breaks (without dealer involvement), right? When my Canon breaks, I put it in a box and send it to Canon on Monday, and I have it back by that Friday, fixed. From my perspective, where is the $4000 advantage with the back dealer vs. ebay? This is a serious question, by the way.
And I may get the back from a dealer, I just want a better price. Or Ebay looks pretty good.
*I will ask if they will give out loaners even if nothing breaks. Like maybe I could have one to take on trips out of town, for just in case. (like a free rental.) Now that would be worth some money.
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I have to ask this lisa, I've not seen the Value adds you speak of..but,
I have no idea what their margins are but can you not have this added for free?
What is really in the value add? Would they not be using your existing wty and just be a middle man with a direct link and possibly faster service. I mean, UPS, Fed ex et. al. and it's there in the next AM. I'm sure they would have a loaner in stock. Sorry, I'm not too sure what the value add is? And how much was it? Or were you thinking of buying from a dealer because of their value add?
Either way, do you need to see a file from the DL28?
Tom
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You can have your camera back in 5 days from canon with shipping???????
Doubt it. Very Highly. I live 20 min from their repair in NJ, before I dumped canon I would drop off gear and never have it back in less then 10 days even for a cleaning of sensor. From what I hear, Canon is rolling downhill quite fast on all fronts. I sold all my gear after spending a lot of time with the 5D MkII. Next day, sold my 10years plus worth of gear because I was fed up. There is a lot of different views to be made for the OP but Canon Service is not one of them.....
Now, the DL28. I demo'ed this camera and had it for two weeks. The Leaf 65s back was just simply outstanding on all fronts. The AFDIII was quite the opposite. The shutter lag drove me nutz which I understand is better now with the 1.5 upgrade. But be aware, to upgrade the AFDIII you have to send the body back to Elmsford, NY and it's a bit of a process to get 'er done. I had to be done with it as it was not for me. (the AFDIII is the PhaseOne DL28 body)
t
I have had the shutter replaced on a 1ds2 by Canon in Irvine in one day, so, 3 days with shipping, for free with an out of warranty camera.
I Hong Kong they replaced a sensor on one of my 1ds3's in one day, to them by 10am, back by 6pm.
To be fair LOA and Leaf also have good service and turn around usually in a day or two.
Now also to be fair, I've never had to have any one of my two phase backs serviced.
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I have had the shutter replaced on a 1ds2 by Canon in Irvine in one day, so, 3 days with shipping, for free with an out of warranty camera.
I Hong Kong they replaced a sensor on one of my 1ds3's in one day, to them by 10am, back by 6pm.
To be fair LOA and Leaf also have good service and turn around usually in a day or two.
Now also to be fair, I've never had to have any one of my two phase backs serviced.
I just had my shutter in my 1Ds II replaced for $477 and 2 weeks, from Canon Irvine. Your mileage may vary.
And, also to be fair, Phase replaced my P30+ (killed by a botched firmware upgrade) immeditately. And my H2 has had zero issues. I wish I could still buy them.
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Lisa hi I can send you some files, please let me know if there is any specific type of images that you are after and if you need raw or processed files.
Four pluses for the DL-28 are image quality, speed, compatibility with view cameras and MAC group's excellent service.
BR
Yair
Hi Lisa,
I've PM'ed you with a link for downloading files. Hope this helps
Yair
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I just had my shutter in my 1Ds II replaced for $477 and 2 weeks, from Canon Irvine. Your mileage may vary.
And, also to be fair, Phase replaced my P30+ (killed by a botched firmware upgrade) immeditately. And my H2 has had zero issues. I wish I could still buy them.
The Hasselblad H2 Camera kit is now a permanent re-listed item on B&H http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/3989...Format_SLR.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/398962-REG/Hasselblad_30_13400_H2_Medium_Format_SLR.html)
Also Hasselblad offer comprehensive support for the H2 up to 2 years extended warranty (on top of factory warranty) more info here http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support...-care-plan.aspx (http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support/the-hasselblad-camera-care-plan.aspx)
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dwdmguy: My Canons have been back from NJ within a week for years now. I think your problem was you were not writing CPS on your box ;-)
As to the Mamiya, yes, the shutter lag is an issue and really turned me off the first few times I shot with it. Not good for people photography.
Anyone know if Hassy has dealt with their Mirror Slap Issue? I think my most likely path now is to purchase the H1/2 and go from there. It's a little clunky, but the AF seems to be the best of the lot. And the lenses aren't bad either.
yaya, thanks for the files. I'll have a look.
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As to the Mamiya, yes, the shutter lag is an issue and really turned me off the first few times I shot with it. Not good for people photography.
Lisa, are you sure you've tested a DL28 kit (or AFDIII or PhaseOne Phamiya) with the most recent firmware? The shutter lag is virtually non-existent now. Maybe not as fast as pro-level Canons and Nikons but we're talking micro-seconds at that point. The lag that used to exist on the AFD bodies was truly awful and is the lone reason for my upgrading. But with my current DL28 kit with the AFDIII body, I'm satisfied with the improvement.
-Josh
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Josh, no I have not used the latest body, though a friend who owns it told me that the lag is still there to some extent.
Anyway I will likely get the H because the AF seems to be best, not because of the lag per se.
So, anyone know if the H mirror SLAP issues were resolved and how they were resolved?
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Of course, I work for a dealer; so I'm openly biased. Please consult with others who have made similar switches. Ask our customers if they think they have gotten their money's worth. That's the proof. You'll probably find a small handful who are not happy (no company has 100% satisfaction), but you will find hundreds more who are very happy they went through a dealer.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
Doug,
A question on warranty. Can a user purchase an extended warranty on a Phase back(s), after it has gone out of warranty and if so what is the costs in the U.S. ?
Not the value added, just straight warranty and is the warranty transferable to a new owner?
Thx.
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Doug,
A question on warranty. Can a user purchase an extended warranty on a Phase back(s), after it has gone out of warranty and if so what is the costs in the U.S. ?
Not the value added, just straight warranty and is the warranty transferable to a new owner?
Thx.
I'll chime in till Doug comes around.
Yes, you can buy extended warranties in both the classic 1 year and value added 3 year versions on your back even after the original warranty has expired.
I will not comment on US prices as we are in Canada.
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I'll chime in till Doug comes around.
Yes, you can buy extended warranties in both the classic 1 year and value added 3 year versions on your back even after the original warranty has expired.
I will not comment on US prices as we are in Canada.
Joe,
thx.
question, regardless if where the warranty is purchased, U.S., europe, Canada, can it be transfered if the backs are sold to someone in another country?
Once again, thx.
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Joe,
thx.
question, regardless if where the warranty is purchased, U.S., europe, Canada, can it be transfered if the backs are sold to someone in another country?
Once again, thx.
Phase One honors warranties based on the serial number, not on the owner. Unless the back is listed as stolen anyone (meaning the old or new owner) can request a warranty repair on a back for which a warranty remains.
You should contact a dealer in your country to get pricing in your currency (the warranty does not have to be purchased from the dealer from which the back was originally purchased).
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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Doug,
Thanks for clarification. How can someone check if DB is stolen or not.
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So, anyone know if the H mirror SLAP issues were resolved and how they were resolved? And on which bodies?
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So, anyone know if the H mirror SLAP issues were resolved and how they were resolved? And on which bodies?
The latest firmware version 9.4.1 includes the delayed mirror issue in the Hasselblad H2 Camera.
More info here http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=29694 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29694)
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Anyone know if this mirror delay fix works with the H1? I couldn't tell from reading that chart.
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Lisa,
Do you have the opportunity to rent these different systems and try them out? Or access to different sales reps that would let you demo them? The reason I ask is that I get the sense that you want to fully research your different options. I'm right there with you! As a DL28 user, I can provide my own experiences but my hunch is that if you're anything like me, you won't be happy until you've played with the different systems and decided what feels right.
Back when I owned a Mamiya ZD back, I bought it sight unseen. I used it with my Mamiya AFD camera body which I had owned for a while and knew well. So, while I was aware of the pluses and minuses of the AFD, the ZD was new territory for me. After a number of issues (well discussed on these boards), I decided to try out a few different systems. I didn't play with the Hasselblad (because I already had Mamiya lenses that I didn't want to get rid of and buy into the more expensive H lenses). But I did test a Phase back as well as a Leaf. Ultimately, I liked both but just 'felt' better with the Leaf. Combined with a good deal, that's what I went for.
In your case, since you're considering multiple systems, I can only suggest that you get some solid shooting time with the different systems (be it Mamiya, Phase, Hasselblad H, H2, H3, Leaf, etc) and make a pro/con chart for yourself.
Ultimately, I think it's the only way to go about a purchase (and potentially dealer relationship) of this magnitude.
Good luck,
Josh
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Doug,
Thanks for clarification. How can someone check if DB is stolen or not.
You can check with Phase One. They have a list of stolen backs. If you buy one and
you try to get it repaired you are screwed. This happened to a client of mine that tried
to get a 2nd unit off ebay.
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Hi Josh, thanks. And yes, I am trying them out. I am actually purchasing a H1 kit at at great price from one of my dealers today. (Tried the Mamiya and thought it felt cheap.) And I am trying a couple different backs this week...in the mean time I am trying to get as many questions answered as possible here.
Thanks everyone.
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Woof says these used p30 backs can be had on ebay for around $6500. Cheap. Funny thing is one of my dealers called Phase and he said he could sell me a used/demo for $8800, then calumet calls Phase and offers me the same back for $13000! (each with one year warr., no value added)
This is just confusing. Either someone is gouging or something else is going on, where one dealer has 15% markup and another has 60% markup - in the same NYC market.
Needless to say, calumet will not make this sale...I am going with the other dealer...
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Woof says these used p30 backs can be had on ebay for around $6500. Cheap. Funny thing is one of my dealers called Phase and he said he could sell me a used/demo for $8800, then calumet calls Phase and offers me the same back for $13000! (each with one year warr., no value added)
This is just confusing. Either someone is gouging or something else is going on, where one dealer has 15% markup and another has 60% markup - in the same NYC market.
Needless to say, calumet will not make this sale...I am going with the other dealer...
Woof thinks the price of backs is all over the place, it's sort of stupid isn't it. Calumet is pretty terrible as are fotocare. Don't forget, everything in this market is negotiable!
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I have worked with Calumet and Fotocare for years now, and in my experience they have been good for plenty of purposes. (the other dealer I am referring to with the $8800 offer is neither of these, by the way.) But I don't expect them each to call Phase on the same day and come back with prices varying by $4500 for the same exact item.
Is Phase giving different dealers different prices? Is Calumet just tacking on $4500 more?? Of course they have every right to do that, but...
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I have a long buying history with Calumet over the years. Some times you just need to know who to ask. I can get better prices then B&H if I ask. Did you speak up, and ask them why it cost so much more?
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I have a long buying history with Calumet over the years. Some times you just need to know who to ask. I can get better prices then B&H if I ask. Did you speak up, and ask them why it cost so much more?
I did, and they are now looking into it ;-)
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Anyone know if this mirror delay fix works with the H1? I couldn't tell from reading that chart.
Can someone confirm whether the update works with the h1?
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Can someone confirm whether the update works with the h1?
Someone on here said it works for all the H cameras. For what it's worth, I shot some ambient light images yesterday at ISO 400 with an H1 & 80mm lens, and there did not seem to be any particular issues with slap (compared to my 5D2 with 50 1.4.) 1/100 at 2.8 looked pretty good. I also tested with strobes at ISO 100.
I did note just how similar the files look in terms of color, shadow detail, etc. between the p30 processed with C1 and the 5D2 files processed with DPP. They look very, very similar aside from a slight amount more detail from the Phase. I know here on the web people like to jack up the shadows by 3 stops and then compare cameras that way, but out here in the real world, I have never needed to do anything like that with any of my commercial or personal images. So jacking up shadows 3 stops to test cameras has no bearing on my reality. Even so, I tried it. And at +2.5 stops, the Phase does not seem to hold more detail in the shadows, but it does look smoother than the Canon. The canon had some red splotches at + 2.5 stops.
I really like the H1 body, and it's AF is a lot better in low light than the Mam/Phase IMO. Surprising, the H1 also felt lighter! And way better than the Contax (which tends to hunt in moderately low light my experience.)