Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Jerboa on January 30, 2009, 12:22:21 pm
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Good day all,
I am looking for a monitor to pair with the 2009 Macbook Pro (MBP) for use with the Epson Pro 3800 printer. I have not found many reviews regarding the new Apple 24" LED Cinema Display, most likely due to the fact that it can only be used with the latest MBP's with Mini DisplayPort. If you have experience with this monitor, I would greatly appreciate your opinions.
I have also considered the NEC LCD2690W2-BK-SV, but was forced to strike it from the list due to the lack of compatibility (that may change) with the SpectraView software.
The other option is the Eizo CG241W-BK.
All opinions would be greatly appreciated...
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Good day all,
I am looking for a monitor to pair with the 2009 Macbook Pro (MBP) for use with the Epson Pro 3800 printer. I have not found many reviews regarding the new Apple 24" LED Cinema Display, most likely due to the fact that it can only be used with the latest MBP's with Mini DisplayPort. If you have experience with this monitor, I would greatly appreciate your opinions.
I have also considered the NEC LCD2690W2-BK-SV, but was forced to strike it from the list due to the lack of compatibility (that may change) with the SpectraView software.
The other option is the Eizo CG241W-BK.
All opinions would be greatly appreciated...
Get the 2690WQXi2 - the Spectraview II v. 1.1.0 that calibrates this panel is alredy there:
http://www.necdisplay.com/SupportCenter/Mo...s/SpectraView2/ (http://www.necdisplay.com/SupportCenter/Monitors/SpectraView2/)
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Get the 2690WQXi2 - the Spectraview II v. 1.1.0 that calibrates this panel is alredy there:
http://www.necdisplay.com/SupportCenter/Mo...s/SpectraView2/ (http://www.necdisplay.com/SupportCenter/Monitors/SpectraView2/)
As a second to the above posting...I went to Macworld in January and NEC was present. The NEC rep mentioned that 26" NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi2 backlite system is better in the long run to the LED options (LED color bulb drifting over time) out there and a very good price point around $1,200. NEC made an LED backlite monitor (MultiSync LCD2180WG-LED) but don't have this monitor on their site any longer.
The site is http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product...de-14309a636738 (http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=8899a96d-28dc-484f-a4de-14309a636738) The warranty is four years! I like Apple stuff (currently using a HD cinema and Studio display side by side) but the NEC product is a serious consideration as a pre-press monitor. Good luck.
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If you want long term flexibility with calibration software I would bet on the Eizo. If you like spectraview and plan on buying all NEC monitors in the future go with NEC. If you want the flexibility to use one calibration solution with many brands of monitors pick the Eizo. Not only is their hardware calibration strategy more bomb proof than anybody elses, they also support all third party calibration solutions.
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If you want long term flexibility with calibration software I would bet on the Eizo. If you like spectraview and plan on buying all NEC monitors in the future go with NEC. If you want the flexibility to use one calibration solution with many brands of monitors pick the Eizo. Not only is their hardware calibration strategy more bomb proof than anybody elses, they also support all third party calibration solutions.
As a matter of fact, Spectraview also supports all common colorimeters & spectrophotometers. I also find an idea of custom tuned i1 colorimeter (SVII Pro kit) to be more appealing, than rebranded Spyder3.
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Hi,
There is a discussion going on about the new LED display on the colorsync list:
hxxp://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-users/2009/Jan/msg00086.html
"New Macbook glossy LED display calibration problem"
Kr,
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"As a matter of fact, Spectraview also supports all common colorimeters & spectrophotometers. I also find an idea of custom tuned i1 colorimeter (SVII Pro kit) to be more appealing, than rebranded Spyder3."
It's not a question of sensors, it's a question of monitors, NEC monitors- Spectraview only, any other monitor, another software solution.
And as for the spyder 3 it actually doesn't need to be custom tuned so again you have a device that would be more flexible, would you not?
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Get the 2690WQXi2 - the Spectraview II v. 1.1.0 that calibrates this panel is alredy there:
http://www.necdisplay.com/SupportCenter/Mo...s/SpectraView2/ (http://www.necdisplay.com/SupportCenter/Monitors/SpectraView2/)
Hello everyone, thanks for the replies. If you look at the nec SVII link provided by Czornyj, scroll down to the red text and it reads:
"IMPORTANT COMPATIBILITY NOTICE:
* The new 13-inch MacBook and 15-inch MacBook Pro with Mini DisplayPort video outputs released by Apple in October 2008 are not currently compatible with SpectraView when using either the DisplayPort to DVI adapter or the DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI adapter from Apple. SpectraView will not be able to calibrate NEC monitors when connected to these Macs. NEC is currently working with Apple to try and resolve this issue.
* The recent Mac OS 10.5.6 update release by Apple may prevent SpectraView from operating on PPC based Macs. Intel based Macs do not appear to be impacted. Customers with PPC based Macs are encouraged not to update to Mac OS 10.5.6 until Apple has resolved this issue. This update prevents SpectraView from being able to communicate with the display monitor."
For this reason I am now leaning to the Eizo. Thanks again for your assistance...
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It's not a question of sensors, it's a question of monitors, NEC monitors- Spectraview only, any other monitor, another software solution.
And as for the spyder 3 it actually doesn't need to be custom tuned so again you have a device that would be more flexible, would you not?
i1match profiler will work with Nec colorimeter, and you can also profile the other panels using Spectraview II, so that's not a problem.
I wouldn't be so sure about that flexibility of Spyder3 - just take a look at the previous post with link to colorsync discussion.
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I also find an idea of custom tuned i1 colorimeter (SVII Pro kit) to be more appealing, than rebranded Spyder3.
Absolutely! The best reference display systems from day one had custom tuned Colorimeters (Barco, PressView, Artisan).
http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whit...xrite-wp-3a.pdf (http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whitepapers/files/xrite-wp-3a.pdf)
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ok here is my question. how does the new apple cinema display compare with the old ones? i have an older 23inch cinema display calibrated and have a custom profiel made by digital dog and make great prints. If i have a controlled office where i work and can do retouchng withing a glare issue of the new apple 24" displays, then wouldnt i be happy with it?
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ok here is my question. how does the new apple cinema display compare with the old ones? i have an older 23inch cinema display calibrated and have a custom profiel made by digital dog and make great prints. If i have a controlled office where i work and can do retouchng withing a glare issue of the new apple 24" displays, then wouldnt i be happy with it?
Review here: http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/reviews/inde...m?reviewid=2937 (http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/reviews/index.cfm?reviewid=2937)
( I don't know how seriously you take Macworld ).
Regards
graeme
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Review here: http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/reviews/inde...m?reviewid=2937 (http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/reviews/index.cfm?reviewid=2937)
Fair review:
Expensive; glossy display doesn't offer accurate enough colour calibration for designers and photographers
I second that opinion.
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Absolutely! The best reference display systems from day one had custom tuned Colorimeters (Barco, PressView, Artisan).
http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whit...xrite-wp-3a.pdf (http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whitepapers/files/xrite-wp-3a.pdf)
And we're pretty much talking ancient history here. Technology has evolved substantially since these.
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And we're pretty much talking ancient history here. Technology has evolved substantially since these.
Nonsense! If anything, with the myriad of wider gamut displays and differing backlight illuminants (white LED), the idea that one colorimeter’s filter set is somehow ideal compared to a custom mated unit is silly talk. That's WHY NEC and others are mating custom sensors with their high end, integrated systems.
I'll see if the color scientist who designed two of the premier reference displays systems wants to argue with a software salesman....
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Nonsense! If anything, with the myriad of wider gamut displays and differing backlight illuminants (white LED), the idea that one colorimeter’s filter set is somehow ideal compared to a custom mated unit is silly talk. That's WHY NEC and others are mating custom sensors with their high end, integrated systems.
I'll see if the color scientist who designed two of the premier reference displays systems wants to argue with a software salesman....
So a new sensor for every new kind of monitor? I guess you like sensor sales people better? One should not necessarily assume that just because the eye one 2 requires a custom set, that there are not better answers.
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So a new sensor for every new kind of monitor?
Read the article, its pretty clear.
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So...is there a known work-around for the 2009 Macbook Pro with SV and the NEC displays? My understanding is that SV allows the NEC display to perform at its best...is this correct? If there is something that I'm missing...please feel free to add to this discussion. Many thanks...
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Good day all,
I am looking for a monitor to pair with the 2009 Macbook Pro (MBP) for use with the Epson Pro 3800 printer. I have not found many reviews regarding the new Apple 24" LED Cinema Display, most likely due to the fact that it can only be used with the latest MBP's with Mini DisplayPort. If you have experience with this monitor, I would greatly appreciate your opinions.
I have also considered the NEC LCD2690W2-BK-SV, but was forced to strike it from the list due to the lack of compatibility (that may change) with the SpectraView software.
The other option is the Eizo CG241W-BK.
All opinions would be greatly appreciated...
I have the 24" Apple LED for use with my MacBook Pro. I personally like the glossy screen in my MacBook because I find it is more useful in challenging lighting conditions. The new monitor doesn't really bother me, but the gloss screen doesn't offer the same advantage.
I have had no problems calibrating it with an i1Pro and ColorMatch, and feel is is decent for working on images. It is certainly not ideal, but in my case this isn't my primary photo editing station (which is with a 30" ACD) so the other features (plug and play with sound and iSight camera) are terrific. Using a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, my laptop becomes a desktop very quickly. As to whether it is as good as Apples previous displays, I think it is close aside from the issue of the gloss screen and reflections which aren't that difficult to manage for me. The LED backlight is more consistent and even, and personally I like the perceived increase in black level and saturation ... it more closely matches the results I get using the new papers designed for PK inks such as Epson Exhibition Fiber.
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Thanks Wayne,
Thank you for sharing your first hand experience. Do you think the Apple 24" LED would be "passable" as your primary editing station?? I would also be using the i1Pro and ColorMatch with the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper. May I ask how you like the results for printing b&w AND colour? I will be using the Epson 3800. Have you had success with other papers and this combination??
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Nonsense! If anything, with the myriad of wider gamut displays and differing backlight illuminants (white LED), the idea that one colorimeter’s filter set is somehow ideal compared to a custom mated unit is silly talk. That's WHY NEC and others are mating custom sensors with their high end, integrated systems.
I agree with you Andrew, BUT:
There's more than one way to mate a colorimeter to a display.
- The use of custom filters (like the Artisan who's FILTERS were designed specifically for the fosfors used)
- Using calibration/correction matrices for a specific display either in the hardware (like NEC is doing with SVII-PRO-KIT) OR in the software (EIZO e.g.).
From a buyer's perspective I prefer the software approach, since it does not tie the use of a colorimeter to a specific display.
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Thanks Wayne,
Thank you for sharing your first hand experience. Do you think the Apple 24" LED would be "passable" as your primary editing station?? I would also be using the i1Pro and ColorMatch with the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper. May I ask how you like the results for printing b&w AND colour? I will be using the Epson 3800. Have you had success with other papers and this combination??
mmmm ... want me to go out on the limb a little here
Let me answer it this way. While the 24" is not my primary editing station, when I am using it I work on the image to completion and printing. When I decide to work on an image at my office, I will complete the edits and output the final print on my Epson 7900 unless I need something larger than the 24" machine. I still do more of this at my home than I do at the office, especially projects that require a lot of computer horsepower, where I print to my 11880. But I don't check my final versions from my office on my home display. So from a quality perspective I don't think the 24" loses anything to my 30" Apple Cinema Display. In fact, the gloss screen seems to match the look of the papers I choose to use (Exhibition Fiber and Hahnemuhle FAB) ... to my eyes anyway.
I printed 2 24x30 portraits today from images of a very skilled studio photographer. He does much of his own printing on Epson printers so the files were really good. The images looked terrific on my Apple 24" LED Cinema display, and matched the output from my 7900 on the FAB paper extremely well. (Love it when the photographer knows what he's doing and uses good color management). One was a terrific black and white of a girl wearing a black dress. Detail of the black bow against the black dress was very subtle .. but screen matched the print very closely.
That aside, I do very little black and white work so this is about the extent of my experience with this particular monitor and black and white.
For me I'm happy. Again, I've used a glossy powerbook for a long time (my new 15" MacBook Pro is my 4th MacBook with a glossy screen) and I prefer them over the matt screen, but that means I'm also used to dealing with reflections.
I've never used a really high end monitor ... perhaps "ignorance is bliss". I do know I've been more than satisfied with the 30" ACD for what I do, and I don't regret trading it for the Apple 24" LED display at the office. One of these days I'll try an Eizo just to see what I might be missing.
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Out on a limb indeed!
Seriously, thanks for your detailed reply. This is really helpful. I'll head-out to the Apple store this week and take a closer look.
Anyone else...please free to add your thoughts/considerations/experiences.
Jerb
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Hello Wayne,
Thank you for your detailed thoughts. I have a new 15" MBP with glossy screen. I observe rougher transitions and a bit of a red tint compared to my 20" iMac. I am contemplating the 24" gloss ACD, and wonder if you have seen any red tinting vs your 30" ACD? I understand the 24" gloss will not perform like an Eizo et. al. (and ought to do better than the MBP monitor!), but am hoping that it will provide reasonably smooth transitions, and good neutrality. . .
Thank you,
Michael Morrison
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Hello All,
I went down to the local Apple store with my Spyder3 and CEDPro on my MacBook Pro where they let me profile one of their 24" glossy monitors. On a variety of test images (Atkinson, Onsight, Digital Dog, etc.) plus a few of my own images. I found very clean neutrals and a reasonably smooth gray ramp both in terms of color and luminosity. I was able to compare to a 20" ACD right next to it. Unprofiled, I checked mostly for gray ramp smoothness. While it was smooth, the 24" LED was significantly smoother. Viewing angle on the 24" was very good. Under the lights at the store, the 24's mirror capabilities were excellent . Between Wayne's report, my observation, and not being of Eizo stature (!), I bought it.
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I have an older mac book pro and I'm looking for a monitor to pair with it, I was thinking of buying the non led cinema displays, a few people have suggested the new dells as well. I dont have the money to spend on an eizo or nec, maybe once I get my mac pro, but for now I'm just looking for something middle of the road that'll represent color nicely and I need something bigger then this little laptop screen.