Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: PatrikR on November 19, 2008, 03:40:50 am
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Hi!
This is purely for fun and hobby but does anybody know what is needed for making Sinarcam 1 and Leaf DCB 2 live work? Is it even possible?
I have the following equipment:
Sinarcam, the only numbers on the body are 8051
Leaf DCB II Live digital back
Expolux power supply RS-232 (522.21.046)
Digital DB mount lenses with chips
Aperture motor and cable
Sinar P2
What I don't have:
RS 232 cable
Expolux Connecting Cable (522.21.021)
Questions:
1) What is the cable that hook's up to the rear of Leaf DCB II Live? Looks like SCSI cable but does it need a special card? I don't have the card or the cable but I do have a Atto SCSI in my Mac Pro...
2) What version of software is required for the setup?
Like said this is for hobby and fun but I would appreciate any help.
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Hi Patrick,
From memory the Leaf DCBII has a power supply which plugged in to the connector you describe.
...and I think then the Power Supply connected to the Mac, but it wasn't SCSI... I think an earlier technology?
Does that Leaf back need the filter wheel as well?
Here we go....
http://www.promarketinc.com/pdf/scitexleafdcbiilive.pdf (http://www.promarketinc.com/pdf/scitexleafdcbiilive.pdf)
Yes, you need a NuBus! Not sure where you would find one of them, unless on a really old Mac!
Good luck! It was the first digital camera I used on a Fuji GX680.
Best,
David
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Hi Patrick,
From memory the Leaf DCBII has a power supply which plugged in to the connector you describe.
...and I think then the Power Supply connected to the Mac, but it wasn't SCSI... I think an earlier technology?
Does that Leaf back need the filter wheel as well?
Here we go....
http://www.promarketinc.com/pdf/scitexleafdcbiilive.pdf (http://www.promarketinc.com/pdf/scitexleafdcbiilive.pdf)
Yes, you need a NuBus! Not sure where you would find one of them, unless on a really old Mac!
Good luck! It was the first digital camera I used on a Fuji GX680.
Best,
David
I actually have a Nubus PowerMac in my garage. And the filter wheel is inside Sinarcam.
Usually I'm not a terrible pack rat but this got me going... I tried to Google it up but I haven't been able to find any valuable information. I even found some old Sinar brochures but Sinar "conveniently" displays all their setups without the cables. But if anybody remembers it would be great.
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Patrick,
I will try to find some old documentation, but not sure if still available.
Let me some time.
Best regards,
Thierry
I actually have a Nubus PowerMac in my garage. And the filter wheel is inside Sinarcam.
Usually I'm not a terrible pack rat but this got me going... I tried to Google it up but I haven't been able to find any valuable information. I even found some old Sinar brochures but Sinar "conveniently" displays all their setups without the cables. But if anybody remembers it would be great.
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Patrick,
I will try to find some old documentation, but not sure if still available.
Let me some time.
Best regards,
Thierry
Very kind of you Thierry. Hopefully you'll find something...
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our product manager will look what he can find, but asked me to be patient until friday, being much busy today and tomorrow.
Thierry
Very kind of you Thierry. Hopefully you'll find something...
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Patrick, I still have my old DCBII (previous model to the live) on a shelf. I imagine the set up with the power supply is the same. The cable connects the back with the mac and the power supply. You need a PCI card in the mac, it is made by Leaf. The cable is also special by Leaf. The card needs to match the vintage of Mac you have, ie an early model card may not go with a G3 or G4.
David
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Patrick, I still have my old DCBII (previous model to the live) on a shelf. I imagine the set up with the power supply is the same. The cable connects the back with the mac and the power supply. You need a PCI card in the mac, it is made by Leaf. The cable is also special by Leaf. The card needs to match the vintage of Mac you have, ie an early model card may not go with a G3 or G4.
David
The card that will need to go in the Mac is a Differential SCSI card. ATTO was the supplier of these.
Ah this is bringing back memories!
L
Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration (http://www.captureintegration.com)
()
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The card that will need to go in the Mac is a Differential SCSI card. ATTO was the supplier of these.
Ah this is bringing back memories!
L
Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration (http://www.captureintegration.com)
()
We have a few old bits in a draw if your missing anything specific let me know details by email and I'll check
Edwin
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We have a few old bits in a draw if your missing anything specific let me know details by email and I'll check
Edwin
Wonderful Edwin!
Lance, I have a Attotech UltraSCSI 320 UL5D card in my MacPro. It's a low voltage differential card (whatever that may mean). If I can find the correct cable from the Leaf DCB 2 Live to my SCSI card I can proceed to the next step. Maybe they are downward compatible... but who knows...
Edwin if you have that cable let me know the dollars. Keep in mind there's the financial crisis taking place now.
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Lance, I have a Attotech UltraSCSI 320 UL5D card in my MacPro. It's a low voltage differential card (whatever that may mean). If I can find the correct cable from the Leaf DCB 2 Live to my SCSI card I can proceed to the next step. Maybe they are downward compatible... but who knows...
The DCB2/DCB2 Live are definitely not SCSI devices. Only the original DCB used SCSI, and it was what's now known as High Voltage Differential. Don't try connecting the DCB2 to your Atto card; you will damage something, and I am not sure which part that would be. Atto has not made the appropriate SCSI card in years, and never in PCI-Express.
The DCB2 used a proprietary "Taxi" board from Leaf and was never available for even the Power Mac G5. You won't be able to use this back with a Mac Pro at all.
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I used to use a Dicomed Big Shot with a sinar shutter and filter wheel, kind of ahead of it's time at 16mg pixels. But with the scsi cable you had to move the camera two feet and then roll the computer behind it. It had a lot of flaws but took nice pictures in the studio. Like a lot of those old cameras, you needed a serial port for the shutter control and was OS9 only.
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Partik,
The card you are after is a PCI-I type part No. 503C2L074S and shoud work in in old Grey or Blue G3 Macs and OS 9 or a NuBus Interface board part No. 612B10015
Your ATTO card won't fit in an old Mac.
You'll also need the main power+communication cable that connects the back to the PS unit: 510K51164 (that's the one that looks like SCSI)
Then there's the PS unit for the back: 209A00010
The last version that supported the DCBII LIVE was LeafCapture 7.0 (http://senduit.com/001d42) but I think this only worked with the Leaf FilterWheel and the SinarCam I but I'm not sure about the Expolux ontroller.
Some of our dealers may still carry bits and pieces and maybe Thierry and Edwin can help with the Sinar bits.
You can try Photo Universal in Stuttgart, Germany ask for Peter Kleiber p.kleiber@photouniversal.de +49.711.957.6012
Enjoy (or just trade it in for a new Aptus or whatever....)
Yair
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The DCB2/DCB2 Live are definitely not SCSI devices. Only the original DCB used SCSI, and it was what's now known as High Voltage Differential. Don't try connecting the DCB2 to your Atto card; you will damage something, and I am not sure which part that would be. Atto has not made the appropriate SCSI card in years, and never in PCI-Express.
The DCB2 used a proprietary "Taxi" board from Leaf and was never available for even the Power Mac G5. You won't be able to use this back with a Mac Pro at all.
Great... TAXI, I read a little more... The TAXI Direct-to-Disk interface was developed for original use in capturing data from instrumentation on a test stand in a NASA rocket-testing facility. http://www.techbriefs.com/content/view/3042/32/ (http://www.techbriefs.com/content/view/3042/32/)
So you mean that if I can't find a special Leaf card and cable I'm out of luck... I have a PowerMac 9500/132 from 1996 or so with PCI boards. But usually the PCI cards work with newer machines too. It's kind of sad to realize that camera technology from just a decade ago can be so obsolete. Where is this gonna take me to?
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Partik,
The card you are after is a PCI-I type part No. 503C2L074S and shoud work in in old Grey or Blue G3 Macs and OS 9 or a NuBus Interface board part No. 612B10015
Your ATTO card won't fit in an old Mac.
You'll also need the main power+communication cable that connects the back to the PS unit: 510K51164 (that's the one that looks like SCSI)
Then there's the PS unit for the back: 209A00010
The last version that supported the DCBII LIVE was LeafCapture 7.0 (http://senduit.com/001d42) but I think this only worked with the Leaf FilterWheel and the SinarCam I but I'm not sure about the Expolux ontroller.
Some of our dealers may still carry bits and pieces and maybe Thierry and Edwin can help with the Sinar bits.
You can try Photo Universal in Stuttgart, Germany ask for Peter Kleiber p.kleiber@photouniversal.de +49.711.957.6012
Enjoy (or just trade it in for a new Aptus or whatever....)
Yair
Thanks Yair,
This is how I believe it works.
Expolux RS 232 power supply powers the Sinarcam 1 which gives power to the back and DB mount lenses via an aperture motor (a special Sinar part).
The system is controlled by an RS 232 cable from the Expolux RS power supply, which also triggers the flash units. This system has nothing to do with the Expolux shutter system that was also a Sinar product and looked similar.
So the DCB 2 Live back attaches to the Sinarcam which is mounted on the Sinar P2 rear std. The digital lens is on front std and controlled by the aperture motor which is controlled by the Sinarcam.
The system is controlled by the serial cable from the computer (Mac). The data is delivered from the back to the computer thru another cable. The only suitable connector left is the SCSI lookalike cable.
A big thanks for everybody helping! Please keep up the info coming maybe somebody else can benefit from this someday.
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Great... TAXI, I read a little more... The TAXI Direct-to-Disk interface was developed for original use in capturing data from instrumentation on a test stand in a NASA rocket-testing facility. http://www.techbriefs.com/content/view/3042/32/ (http://www.techbriefs.com/content/view/3042/32/)
No, that isn't the same taxi system at all.
So you mean that if I can't find a special Leaf card and cable I'm out of luck... I have a PowerMac 9500/132 from 1996 or so with PCI boards. But usually the PCI cards work with newer machines too. It's kind of sad to realize that camera technology from just a decade ago can be so obsolete. Where is this gonna take me to?
Well, consider that this is a 2048x2048 digital back from pretty much the earliest days of digital imaging. The DCB2 card would work fine in the 9500. We once had boxes of these things around here but have long since disposed of them.
Frankly, I don't think it's worth the effort to make it work at this point.
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Frankly, I don't think it's worth the effort to make it work at this point.
You are so right but it's kind of fun. Besides this is a perfect gear head pass time... I haven't really spend much money for any of these parts. Got the DCB 2 Live from the ex Sinar dealer here in Finland and the rest came from friends and some parts are still very much in use like the lenses and my P2s. Besides all these parts are like new.
I just think that Sinar makes/has made the nicest cameras ever with all their ultra exotic and cool systems. It's like the rockets but less dangerous and like said for a hobby this can be very interesting. If you come by any of these cards please let me know.
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You are so right but it's kind of fun. Besides this is a perfect gear head pass time... I haven't really spend much money for any of these parts. Got the DCB 2 Live from the ex Sinar dealer here in Finland and the rest came from friends and some parts are still very much in use like the lenses and my P2s. Besides all these parts are like new.
I just think that Sinar makes/has made the nicest cameras ever with all their ultra exotic and cool systems. It's like the rockets but less dangerous and like said for a hobby this can be very interesting. If you come by any of these cards please let me know.
Patrik,
It looks like from this point on you will have to start spending money on bits and pieces and this still won't insure that the system is OK as you may have faulty items there...
To the point: We now have a special "end of year" promotion for users of old Leaf backs who are on a budget but would like to bring their setup forward so that it works with all the new software, operating systems, cameras etc.
To trade the old DCBII in for a refurbished Aptus 22 is just under 6,500 EURO and you get 1 year warranty. You can keep the P2 and sell all the other, irrelevant items. You will then need a Graflok adapter or a sliding back for mounting the Aptus on the P2 and also an original rear frame. The lenses can be mounted into copal shutters.
For more information contact Fimeko (http://www.fimeko.fi/shop/contact.php) and ask to speak to Jorma Teittenen or Sampo Valtonen
good luck
Yair
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Well I have made some progress with my project... And thanks to this forum I have made it so far...
I can take pictures with the DCB 2 Live. It shoots and focus really nicely.
My setup is as follows:
-G4 800 Mhz Mac with System 9.2.2
-Leaf PCI Taxi board
-Leaf power supply
-Leaf DCB II Live/Sinarcam mounted on rear carrier of my Sinar P2
-Cable from DCB to Taxi board to the Leaf power supply
-Cable from Sinarcam to Aperture motor on Sinar P2 front standard
-Cable from Sinarcam to the Expolux RS-232 power supply
-RS232 USB adapter with driver from Expolux to G4
-LeafCapture 7.0 software on Mac
-Flash sync from the Expolux power supply (working perfectly)
I have one slight problem. I do not have software for the Sinarcam 1 and therefore cannot control the Sinarcam 1.
According to this document found on Sinar web site it seems that the Sinarcam needs it own software in order to change apperture or shutterspeed. Now I have only one shutterspeed and f/stop at my disposal.
Please can you help Thierry or Yaya or Edwin or anybody. I'm so close to getting the kit fully work.
I attached a screen shot of the problem LeafCapture states while connecting to the Sinarcam.
And thanks for all the help already provided.
Patrik
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I have one slight problem. I do not have software for the Sinarcam 1 and therefore cannot control the Sinarcam 1.
Leaf Capture should control the Sinarcam without the need for additional software. This may be an issue with the USB-Serial port not being configured as it should. See what configuration options you have with that. What is the camera setup you have set in Leaf Capture?
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I have an old os 9 copy of "Epolux Shutter 1.3" it is a small application for controlling the epolux shutter only. It might be what you need. Let me know I could send it.
Well I have made some progress with my project... And thanks to this forum I have made it so far...
I can take pictures with the DCB 2 Live. It shoots and focus really nicely.
My setup is as follows:
-G4 800 Mhz Mac with System 9.2.2
-Leaf PCI Taxi board
-Leaf power supply
-Leaf DCB II Live/Sinarcam mounted on rear carrier of my Sinar P2
-Cable from DCB to Taxi board to the Leaf power supply
-Cable from Sinarcam to Aperture motor on Sinar P2 front standard
-Cable from Sinarcam to the Expolux RS-232 power supply
-RS232 USB adapter with driver from Expolux to G4
-LeafCapture 7.0 software on Mac
-Flash sync from the Expolux power supply (working perfectly)
I have one slight problem. I do not have software for the Sinarcam 1 and therefore cannot control the Sinarcam 1.
According to this document found on Sinar web site it seems that the Sinarcam needs it own software in order to change apperture or shutterspeed. Now I have only one shutterspeed and f/stop at my disposal.
Please can you help Thierry or Yaya or Edwin or anybody. I'm so close to getting the kit fully work.
I attached a screen shot of the problem LeafCapture states while connecting to the Sinarcam.
And thanks for all the help already provided.
Patrik
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Leaf Capture should control the Sinarcam without the need for additional software. This may be an issue with the USB-Serial port not being configured as it should. See what configuration options you have with that. What is the camera setup you have set in Leaf Capture?
Hi and thanks... The serial cabling could well be the problem. I couldn't find a keyspan so I used a prolific serial to usb adapter. I have now ordered one online. Is the serial cable special? I have rs232 (DB9 to DB9) cables but do I need to buy a special Sinar cable?
The setup in Leaf Capture is Sinarcam DCBIILive, another screen shot.
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I have an old os 9 copy of "Epolux Shutter 1.3" it is a small application for controlling the epolux shutter only. It might be what you need. Let me know I could send it.
Thanks David and sure... you could just mail it to me: PatrikR at kuvatekniikka dot com
See if you have this Sinarcam Software version 1.4.3 on that disk http://www.sinar.ch/file_uploads/bibliothe...7_0_scam143.pdf (http://www.sinar.ch/file_uploads/bibliothek/k_80_Software/k_105_EingestellteProdukte/257_0_scam143.pdf)
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I also wonder why on current Sinar software there is support for the Sinarcam 1S?
What is it used for and which backs mount on Sinarcam 1S?
Also what is the difference between Sinarcam and Sinarcam 1S?
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Patrick,
I can confirm that it does not need any Cam software. As stated by Chris, this seems a wrong setting in the "Hardware Settings" or a faulty cable/connection.
Best regards,
Thierry
Leaf Capture should control the Sinarcam without the need for additional software. This may be an issue with the USB-Serial port not being configured as it should. See what configuration options you have with that. What is the camera setup you have set in Leaf Capture?
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We have a few old bits in a draw if your missing anything specific let me know details by email and I'll check
Edwin
Oh no! Not again... Some may say but I figured that over 1000 views on this thread and I should report if I make any progress with this.
As of now, it's up and running. My friend Edwin has helped me so much that a super big thanks goes to him. He has provided generously bits and pieces and his expertise more than one could ever imagine. He has digged old boxes for me. And that's beyond amazing. Thierry and other Sinar employees have provided me with software and invaluable help. And Yair thank you very very much setting me on the right track with the correct LeafCapture from the very beginning. And of course thank you for everybody who contributed.
Maybe one of the heal of achilles was the RS232 serial cable. It just needed to be the right kind even many remembered that the serial cable is a standard serial cable. The cable is a Sinar 522.21.047 Mac Interface Cable RS232 that I was able to order thru Edwin.
Quick note on my setup:
PowerMac G3 350 Mhz with 576 MB RAM (bought online for 5 eur)
-System 9.2.2
-LeafCapture 7.0
-Leaf PCI Taxi board installed (Scitex 503C2L074S)
-Leaf DCB II Live/Sinarcam on Sinar P2
-Leaf power supply (Power General model FLU8-35-1-6829)
-Leaf Power/Communication cable (Scitex 504L3L135A) from DCB to Taxi board to the Leaf power supply
-Sinar 551.33.030 Sinarcam 1 Aperture Control Unit
-Sinar 551.33.035 Sinarcam 1 Aperture Control Cable from Sinarcam to Aperture Control Unit on Sinar P2 front standard
-Sinar 522.21.021 Long Expolux connecting cable from Sinarcam to the Expolux RS-232 power supply
-Sinar 522.21.047 Mac Interface Cable RS232 in modem port
-Sinar DB mount 105mm digital lens
-Flash sync from the Expolux power supply
First I turn on the computer (G3). Once the system is up I switch on the Leaf power supply which powers the DCB-II Live back. Then I turn on the Sinar Expolux RS232 power supply which powers the Sinarcam.
Then I start the Leaf Capture 7.0 and set the correct camera settings and click LeafCapture's connect icon. At this point I still get the alert that LeafCapture didn't recognize the Sinarcam but I just ignore that and click ok. Then I disconnect the camera and reconnect and now voila! Leaf software connects with my Sinarcam and provides all the camera controls.
The camera is really nice and beautifully made. It's very easy to focus and work. Scheimpfluging has never been this easy on any camera I have ever tried and very fast. Live view works great!
Patrik
P.s. I read that Loral Fairchild who made the chip in Leaf DCB-II Live makes now an 9 micron pixel pitch 85 MP 8x8cm chip. So how about it?
http://www.fairchildimaging.com/products/f...rea/ccd_595.htm (http://www.fairchildimaging.com/products/fpa/ccd/area/ccd_595.htm)