Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: DiaAzul on November 17, 2008, 05:44:04 pm
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Excuse the numptiness of the question.
I recently installed CS4. On opening a new Colour Balancer layer CS4 does not provide a colour picker tool, this now has to be selected manually. Also, if a pixel is selected in the image using the colour picker tool then the colour palette no longer updates the selected colours value in real time as the settings for colour balance adjustment panel are changed. This renders the colour balance adjustment layer somewhat useless.
Question : How can I get the CS3 behaviour - colour picker automatically available when adjustment layer is opened and values in colour palette change whilst adjusting sliders in the adjustment layer?
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Excuse the numptiness of the question.
I recently installed CS4. On opening a new Colour Balancer layer CS4 does not provide a colour picker tool, this now has to be selected manually. Also, if a pixel is selected in the image using the colour picker tool then the colour palette no longer updates the selected colours value in real time as the settings for colour balance adjustment panel are changed. This renders the colour balance adjustment layer somewhat useless.
Question : How can I get the CS3 behaviour - colour picker automatically available when adjustment layer is opened and values in colour palette change whilst adjusting sliders in the adjustment layer?
Could it be that you are not activating the image layer? When an adjustment layer is opened Photoshop automatically selects that layer. The color picker won't work on that layer, only on the image layer...like most of the other tools.
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Could it be that you are not activating the image layer? When an adjustment layer is opened Photoshop automatically selects that layer. The color picker won't work on that layer, only on the image layer...like most of the other tools.
Thanks for the suggestion, though it doesn't seem to help much. CS4 is fundamentally broken - the more I use the new interface the more I hanker after the familiarity of CS3. I know that John Nack is pushing all the new features, but this is beginning to feel more and more like Adobe's Vista -- lots of flash not much real substance.
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Thanks for the suggestion, though it doesn't seem to help much. CS4 is fundamentally broken - the more I use the new interface the more I hanker after the familiarity of CS3. I know that John Nack is pushing all the new features, but this is beginning to feel more and more like Adobe's Vista -- lots of flash not much real substance.
Exactly the way I feel. The supposed functionality tweaks are not. They feel like steps backward to me to the point I would ask for my money back if I could. First time I've felt this way about a Photoshop release.
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The new Zoom way of doing things is a real pain. The setting in the Zoom tool for resizing window changes the setting in the preferences. Not the way CS3 did it. Major pain in the ass for quickly working around in a image.
I wonder if they don't have people in the real world testing this stuff.
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The new Zoom way of doing things is a real pain. The setting in the Zoom tool for resizing window changes the setting in the preferences. Not the way CS3 did it. Major pain in the ass for quickly working around in a image.
I wonder if they don't have people in the real world testing this stuff.
I was one of those testing it. Guess what? I like the new tweaks, they seemed a bit odd at first, but once you learnt the differences, then the old familiar way seems a bit clumsy all of a sudden. A lot of complaints I've seen regarding the new UI tend to be because the user hasn't quite grasped the changes yet.
I didn't like the adjustment pallette to start with, but then I tried the old way in CS3 and realised CS4 was better.
The easiest way to zoom is 'Cntrl/Cmd + spacebar' or [new in CS4] hold 'z' to temporarily access zoom tool and use 'alt' with either makes it zoom out and either. Cntrl/Cmd+0 fills screen. I can zoom in and out to anywhere very quickly that way.
Also if you have a new graphics card, you can do gradual zooms in or out by holding button down , rather than just clicking.
I hadn't realised the zoom tool preferences change, but then I've never used the zoom tool other than temporarily, as I described above, so I've never seen the zoom tool bar before! I had a play and see nothing wrong with having the setting on the tool changing the default as it makes sense. The other way as in CS3 would be more confusing. If you want the zoom windows resize a certain way, simply do it with the zoom tool bar and ignore the Prefs.
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Thanks for the suggestion, though it doesn't seem to help much. CS4 is fundamentally broken - the more I use the new interface the more I hanker after the familiarity of CS3. I know that John Nack is pushing all the new features, but this is beginning to feel more and more like Adobe's Vista -- lots of flash not much real substance.
Funny, I work faster in CS4 as the interface is much better, especially on the Mac version. 'Broken', yeah right!
I think there's more substance and less flash as most of the improvements are quite subtle and not whizz bang.
And that is part of the issue, subtle changes can be harder to adapt to than big changes. People need to read and understand how and why some things have changed and not try and use it like it was CS3.
Also quite a bit of stuff has been removed from PS, extract filter, web galleries...in order to trim the fat.
Though on a more literal basis, there really is more 'Flash' in the programme as that's part of the interface design now. IIRC.
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I recently installed CS4. On opening a new Colour Balancer layer CS4 does not provide a colour picker tool, this now has to be selected manually.
Also, if a pixel is selected in the image using the colour picker tool then the colour palette no longer updates the selected colours value in real time as the settings for colour balance adjustment panel are changed. This renders the colour balance adjustment layer somewhat useless.
Question : How can I get the CS3 behaviour - colour picker automatically available when adjustment layer is opened and values in colour palette change whilst adjusting sliders in the adjustment layer?
Still confused by exactly what you are trying to do? As if I use the colour balance adj layer in CS3 and click on various parts of the image to alter FG colour, it seems to have no effect on Colour balance. Did the same correction on an image and changed the colour to white on one and orange on the other CB layer. The end result, exactly the same image. So not being able to do something that has no effect, isn't the biggest problem around!
I've not used colour balance for some years now as I correct that in RAW, so maybe I'm mising something
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I'm also not pleased with some of the UI "enhancements" in PS CS4. The adjustments palette is a solution in search of a problem; I prefer the modal dialogs and wish they were at least there as an option.
But the worst has got to be the stupid tabbed windows. I routinely drag/drop between document windows and CS4 makes this very annoying. And turning off the tabbed windows in preferences is not the answer because the "floating" windows in CS4 do not behave the same as the MDI child windows in CS3. Big thumbs down on that one.
The only real saving grace in CS4 for me is the enhancements to Bridge and ACR.
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Still confused by exactly what you are trying to do? As if I use the colour balance adj layer in CS3 and click on various parts of the image to alter FG colour, it seems to have no effect on Colour balance. Did the same correction on an image and changed the colour to white on one and orange on the other CB layer. The end result, exactly the same image. So not being able to do something that has no effect, isn't the biggest problem around!
I've not used colour balance for some years now as I correct that in RAW, so maybe I'm mising something
Clicking on the image with the colour balance palette open in CS3 selects a measurement point for the colour palette (three horizontal bars). If you select what should be a neutral colour in the image (e.g. on a colour checker chart) then when you move the sliders in the colour balance dialogue you can line up the markers on the bars in the colour palette to see when you have adjusted to a neutral tone.
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CS4 is fundamentally broken - ..................this is beginning to feel more and more like Adobe's Vista -- lots of flash not much real substance.
Is it broken, or is it more to the point that you haven't really learned yet how to use it and don't like it? I ask, because lots of experienced and intelligent people HAVE been involved testing this product and the Adobe engineers are very responsive to the views of the testers. If that's not enough for you, order a copy of Ben Willmore's "Up to SPeed Photoshop CS4". It's not expensive, and he goes through ALL the new stuff feature by feature, explaining the logic of the changes and how to use them in detail. PSCS4 is one of the first steps in the implementation of new directions for Photoshop, as Ben explains in the early pages of the book. It's really a good idea to wrap your mind around this stuff before comparing the program to Vista, which is a completely different talk-show.
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I'm also not pleased with some of the UI "enhancements" in PS CS4. The adjustments palette is a solution in search of a problem; I prefer the modal dialogs and wish they were at least there as an option.
[snip]
The only real saving grace in CS4 for me is the enhancements to Bridge and ACR.
Phew. I thought I was the only one. Frankly - CS4 is a bit of a disappointment. And I'd never in a million years thought I'd say that about an Adobe product - I've purchased each and every version/upgrade since PS6 and each time I did, found something useful about the upgrade and never had a single complaint and have been nothing but extremely positive about all of their products. (And being I've been in software development for 23 years, I've unfortunately seen my fair share of crap out there).
After working with CS4 for a while, I've come to the conclusion that I'll be switching back to CS3 for most things.
Briefly:
1) I also can't stand the damned adjustments palette - what a disaster that is, particularly the curves dialog.
2) The speed of simple things like moving the window around to get to the edges of the image is slower than CS3.
3) And to top it off, I have random printing crashes that I've never experienced in any of the other versions of photoshop. Joyous.
It's a shame, because the work done on bridge and particularly to ACR are extremely nice and very well thought out. So that's probably all I'll use CS4 for...
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Is it broken, or is it more to the point that you haven't really learned yet how to use it and don't like it?
The question I gotta ask is what the heck are you using the Color Balance tool to do cast color correction? I mean, really, COLOR BALANCE? Not Curves? As far as your original complaint, the ONLY thing that CS4 doesn't do is update the colors in the Color panel when the Color Balance adjustments are made. The default tool when the Color Balance panel is active is indeed the Eye Dropper and the Color panel DOES update when you click on the image. But if you really want to do color correction you would be better off working in curves where you can adjust color AND tone at the same time (oh, and it has a live TAT eyedropper as well).
Really folks, ya might just want to learn how to your your tools before condemning them out of hand...
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Really folks, ya might just want to learn how to your your tools before condemning them out of hand...
If that is the case, then perhaps Adobe might consider a user manual included with the sale of the product, or is that too much to ask for these days. With no, or limited guidance, as users we must be just too stupid to use the product.
This is not so much condemnation out of hand as you suggest. The new style panels do not work in the same way as CS3, there is also a big difference in the way the color palatte works in CS4.
1/ CS3 method and also Image->Adjustment working directly on a layer the Color palatte reflects changes in the controls in the adjustments layer
2/ CS4 Adjustments layer and the new Adjustments Palatte the color palatte does not update with changes in the controls.
Doesn't matter if it is curves, colour balance or whatever. You might want to call it a new feature, I would call it broken. However, if you can post a tutorial showing how to make it work that would be appreciated.
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David,
User manuals was never priority number one at Adobe. They develop the software, they provide some documentation ("some" actually being quite a bit - they did produce a brick for CS3 - perhaps the same is there or coming for CS4, and there is quite an extensive Adobe on-line Help), and they trust the whole industry of Photoshop authors out there to really dig in and give us the goods in detail. I already suggested Willmore's book to you. It's the best value and most efficient way to find out most of what you'll want to know about the specific changes for this up-grade.
Mark
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David,
User manuals was never priority number one at Adobe. They develop the software, they provide some documentation ("some" actually being quite a bit - they did produce a brick for CS3 - perhaps the same is there or coming for CS4, and there is quite an extensive Adobe on-line Help), and they trust the whole industry of Photoshop authors out there to really dig in and give us the goods in detail. I already suggested Willmore's book to you. It's the best value and most efficient way to find out most of what you'll want to know about the specific changes for this up-grade.
Mark
Thanks for the info. I don't have a problem using photoshop as I use it extensively every day. However, I still need to find out how to get the Color palatte and Color Balance Adjustment layer to work properly - at the moment it appears to be broken in the CS4 implementation.
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David - I have no doubt you are an experienced hand at PS, but where I'm coming from is that if those functions really were broken there would have been a flood of complaints and that hasn't happened as far as I know, so it may be that there is an issue with your installation.
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David -
You can still do (pretty much) what you want to do by changing your process slightly as follows:
Use the Color Sampler tool instead of the Eye-Dropper.
Use the Info Palette to see the RGB (or LAB or CMYK) color balance for that point.
The above works with Color Balance applied as a layer. It is a little less "visual" than your original method since it gives you just the numbers - not the sliders - but it works pretty much the same.
As has already been pointed out, you can continue to use your old method if you are applying Color Balance directly instead of as a layer.
I think part of your problem is that you became accustomed to using a secondary function (some may even call it a "quirk") of the color panel. Depending on this type of functionality in Photoshop is always somewhat risky since it is more likely that Adobe will change it, either accidentally or on purpose, with future updates. The primary function of the color panel is to select colors for the foreground and background swatches. It is really not intended as a feedback mechanism. Some users might actually be bothered by the fact that your original method changes the foreground color. It is not necessarily an intuitive outcome although other users might find it handy.
Don't ignore the alternatives to Color Balance mentioned by the other posters either. Sometimes when Adobe closes a door, it opens a window.
P.S. - You can download full PDF manuals for CS4 PS and Bridge from the main online help page. The PS one is 701 pages.
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... User manuals was never priority number one at Adobe. They develop the software, they provide some documentation ("some" actually being quite a bit - they did produce a brick for CS3 - perhaps the same is there or coming for CS4, ...
Mark
The user manual is available now, $50. It is larger than the CS3 manual, just under letter size, and 689 pages. Adobe told me that the same content is available in the help file, and on line. I think the printed version will only appeal to those who like to sit and browse through a book.
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But the worst has got to be the stupid tabbed windows. I routinely drag/drop between document windows and CS4 makes this very annoying. And turning off the tabbed windows in preferences is not the answer because the "floating" windows in CS4 do not behave the same as the MDI child windows in CS3. Big thumbs down on that one.
Again I think it's not knowing how to use new interface as opposed to interface not working.
You can drag layers to other documents in tabbed mode mode. You drag from the image [not the layers pallete] to the tab wait for it to change and drag to new document. And if you hold shift, it centres layer in new document and if you select multiple layers [in Layers Pallette], you can move them all in one go too.
Though it would be better if you could drag directly from the layers pallete, but it's still better than the mess of windows you previously had, particularly in OSX.
Also have you tried tiling? Also a good way of arranging multiple documents.
I thought the clumsy old way is still there if you didn't tabs. Just tried it on my PC and old windows are there and if I turn off the application frame on the Mac it goes back to the old messy interface.
I'd highly recommend fully learning the subtleties of new interface before criticizing it.
A video of how to use the new UI wpould be a very helpful addtion to any new editions of programmes, as these things are not always obvious and affect the processes many of us do stuff without concious thinking.
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Clicking on the image with the colour balance palette open in CS3 selects a measurement point for the colour palette (three horizontal bars). If you select what should be a neutral colour in the image (e.g. on a colour checker chart) then when you move the sliders in the colour balance dialogue you can line up the markers on the bars in the colour palette to see when you have adjusted to a neutral tone.
Fair enough, not the way I'd colour correct, as I do that before even getting into PS.
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Again I think it's not knowing how to use new interface as opposed to interface not working.
You can drag layers to other documents in tabbed mode mode. You drag from the image [not the layers pallete] to the tab wait for it to change and drag to new document. And if you hold shift, it centres layer in new document and if you select multiple layers [in Layers Pallette], you can move them all in one go too.
Though it would be better if you could drag directly from the layers pallete, but it's still better than the mess of windows you previously had, particularly in OSX.
What mess? MDI child windows are not complicated to use on the PC. The tabbed interface is just a dumbed down version of MDI. Not being able to drag from the layers palette in tabbed mode is stupid. I have to click on layers palette anyway to make sure correct layer(s) are selected, why wouldn't I want to drag from there?
I thought the clumsy old way is still there if you didn't tabs. Just tried it on my PC and old windows are there and if I turn off the application frame on the Mac it goes back to the old messy interface.
It is not the same on the PC. The 'floating' windows in CS4 cover the entire screen when you maximize them, where as the windows in CS3 would maximize to fill the client area without covering up the menu or docked palettes. That's a pretty signficant difference.
I'd highly recommend fully learning the subtleties of new interface before criticizing it.
A video of how to use the new UI wpould be a very helpful addtion to any new editions of programmes, as these things are not always obvious and affect the processes many of us do stuff without concious thinking.
The new UI is not "subtler". It's dumbed down, and in some cases favors style over substance. I've been using CS4 regularly, in fact almost daily, since I originally wrote that post a month ago. My opinions about the tabbed windows and the adjustment palettes have not changed. Then there are the little things, such as the fact that you can no longer select-all and then modify the selection (say by contracting or feathering it). What UI subtlety am I missing that makes that a good thing?