Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: davewolfs on November 11, 2008, 07:10:56 pm
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I'm sure that this has been asked before and it seems like these are both fantastic printers. I have space for both in my office and the prices of the two are currently very similar with the rebates. Any recommendations for either one of these printers?
Thanks,
Dave
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If the price is close, what is the argument for the 3800? The 4880 lets you use roll paper and 220ml cartridges — more flexibility with lower operating cost.
Oh yeah... switching out the matte and glossy blacks. That's the trade-off.
Nill
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Oh yeah... switching out the matte and glossy blacks. That's the trade-off.
The 3800 will also do full-bleed on cut sheets and print on 4x6 sheets.
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When I was in the market for a printer; I too was deciding between the 3800 and the 4880. I decided on the 4880 due to the fact that the ink alone that comes with the printer is almost worth the price difference; plus at the time I got a deal on some roll paper. The ability of the 4880 to use roll paper is pretty big to some folks but YMMV. It is a big beast though. One bad design thing about the 4880; whoever made the plastic covers for the inkwells need to have their head examined as anyone who will most likely buy a printer like the 4880 will be switching to 220ml carts as soon as the defaults run out. You can't have the plastic covers on with the 220 carts installed.....what bad design!
BTW....the 4880 TOTALLY ROCKS for print quality!! I've been completely amazed.
Cheers....
Todd in Chicago
The 3800 will also do full-bleed on cut sheets and print on 4x6 sheets.
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Are you an advanced amateur or a pro that needs to mass-produce huge numbers of prints per week? If the latter, you already know what you need.
If you are an advanced amateur, you should get the 3800. It's much more practical for a typical fine art photographer, etc. The ink cartridges are nicely sized - economical yet not so big that the ink will go stale before you use it up. The ink swapping is *vastly* more economical, too. Over-all, for a home user it's likely to be as cheap or at least much less wasteful as a 4880. No roll capability (and no curl issues), but greater flexibility in other ways such as handling small sheets, which are nice for album snapshots or basic proofing. The size is much more compatible with a home office regardless of whether you have the space or not, and it's very easy to move. It's quiet and fast. The output is amazing (substantially the same as the 4880 except the 3800 supposedly does better dithering). Essentially no clogging, too.
You won't regret it. I love mine.
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Are you an advanced amateur or a pro that needs to mass-produce huge numbers of prints per week? If the latter, you already know what you need.
If you are an advanced amateur, you should get the 3800. It's much more practical for a typical fine art photographer, etc. The ink cartridges are nicely sized - economical yet not so big that the ink will go stale before you use it up. The ink swapping is *vastly* more economical, too. Over-all, for a home user it's likely to be as cheap or at least much less wasteful as a 4880. No roll capability (and no curl issues), but greater flexibility in other ways such as handling small sheets, which are nice for album snapshots or basic proofing. The size is much more compatible with a home office regardless of whether you have the space or not, and it's very easy to move. It's quiet and fast. The output is amazing (substantially the same as the 4880 except the 3800 supposedly does better dithering). Essentially no clogging, too.
You won't regret it. I love mine.
Thank you for the replies everyone. How long can the ink in these printers last before having to be replaced? Also, how do either of these printers cope being turned off then back on? I could easily see myself only printing with one of these printers max say 2-3 instances every couple of weeks.
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Thank you for the replies everyone. How long can the ink in these printers last before having to be replaced? Also, how do either of these printers cope being turned off then back on? I could easily see myself only printing with one of these printers max say 2-3 instances every couple of weeks.
Once they are installed the life is supposedly 6 months, but I think that's pretty conservative. I have a 3800 in a second location that hasn't been turned on for over 6 months. I removed the cartridges and agitated them gently for a few minutes, ran and auto head clean, which took 4 cycles to eliminate a few clogged nozzles. Up and running perfect prints on Epson Exhibition Fiber in short order.
The 3800 I have at home still has several of the original cartridges, and is over a year old. It is often off for a week or more at a time, and has never had a clog.
I'm not sure what the symptoms are when the ink is too old. Seems like agitating them every month or so to keep the pigments from settling out should work for quite some time.
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Thank you for the replies everyone. How long can the ink in these printers last before having to be replaced? Also, how do either of these printers cope being turned off then back on? I could easily see myself only printing with one of these printers max say 2-3 instances every couple of weeks.
Your expected usage is probably light to typical for the 3800. You should expect to replace the lighter colored inks in 6-9 months, and the darker ones in about a year or so. Despite the "6 month" expiration date, I've seen no problems at all with inks lasting much longer. I've never bothered agitating them, even.
The printer (3800) is very tolerant of being left on all the time - no problem with drying heads at all in my experience. There is no fan, though a quiet pump (to pressurize the ink tanks) stays on a little while after your last print. You can also leave it off if you like. Also no problem.
It's a very easy printer to live with - perhaps the best available for typical home users who want to print a little larger.
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Your expected usage is probably light to typical for the 3800. You should expect to replace the lighter colored inks in 6-9 months, and the darker ones in about a year or so. Despite the "6 month" expiration date, I've seen no problems at all with inks lasting much longer. I've never bothered agitating them, even.
The printer (3800) is very tolerant of being left on all the time - no problem with drying heads at all in my experience. There is no fan, though a quiet pump (to pressurize the ink tanks) stays on a little while after your last print. You can also leave it off if you like. Also no problem.
It's a very easy printer to live with - perhaps the best available for typical home users who want to print a little larger.
How is the quality of the 3800 compared to the 4880 or Canon IPF5100, to the average eye do the prints they produce all look very similar?
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How is the quality of the 3800 compared to the 4880 or Canon IPF5100, to the average eye do the prints they produce all look very similar?
Comparing the 3800 to the 4880, the prints will be virtually identical. If you examined the prints at high magnification, some might say that the 3800 would be better due to more advanced dithering. Other than that, the inks, etc., are the same. I'd be in favor of the vastly more home-friendly form-factor of the 3800.
I have no direct experience with the Canon printers save for playing with them at my friendly store. Sorry. But the Canon is an absurd beast that would not be welcome in my home, at least unless it had a 24" carriage (which it doesn't) plus if I printed in far higher volumes.
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Just a few small quibbles....not sure now important they are; the 4880 comes with the very VERY special (wink wink) "Vivid Magenta" inkset while the 3800 does not. Unless the 3800 can accept those inks as well (I don't really know...I don't have one.). Also...here is the info from Epsons website:
*****************************************************************
Epson 3800
MicroPiezo® AMC™ Print Head Technology
One-inch wide, high performance print head offers a maximum resolution of 2880 x 1440
Produces variable sized droplets as small as 3.5 picoliters to greatly decrease print times, while optimizing photographic quality
Extremely sharp and accurate placement of ink droplets consistently delivers outstanding photographic print quality print to print
Learn More >
Accuphoto™ HD Screening Technology
Highly precise screening technology uses a radical new algorithm to determine dot placement, resulting in an extreme level of photographic image quality
Produces extremely fine photographic prints, even in bi-directional and lower resolution print modes
Compensates for various ink densities between resolutions, allowing for a single ICC™ profile to be used per media type
Epson 4880
Eight-Channel MicroPiezo® AMC™ Print Head with Ink Repelling Coating Technology
Print head design capable of handling eight separate ink channels
One-inch wide high-performance print head with 180 nozzles per channel
New ink repelling coating to dramatically reduce nozzle clogging
Epson AccuPhoto™ HD Screening Technology
Advanced screening algorithm resulting in prints with superior color and clarity
Maximum resolution of 2880 x 1440 dpi for incredibly sharp text and line art
Extremely accurate fine blends and photographic transitions
*****************************************************************
What I can tell you is that when I was buying my printer I went to my local Calumet photo and they printed out samples from each. I couldn't really tell the difference in the samples that I received; but they were different papers, different photos, etc. But what I can say is that the prints from my 4880 TOTALLY ROCK!!
:-)
Cheers....
Todd in Chicago
Comparing the 3800 to the 4880, the prints will be virtually identical. If you examined the prints at high magnification, some might say that the 3800 would be better due to more advanced dithering. Other than that, the inks, etc., are the same. I'd be in favor of the vastly more home-friendly form-factor of the 3800.
I have no direct experience with the Canon printers save for playing with them at my friendly store. Sorry. But the Canon is an absurd beast that would not be welcome in my home, at least unless it had a 24" carriage (which it doesn't) plus if I printed in far higher volumes.
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How do you deal with switching inks on your 4880?
Just a few small quibbles....not sure now important they are; the 4880 comes with the very VERY special (wink wink) "Vivid Magenta" inkset while the 3800 does not. Unless the 3800 can accept those inks as well (I don't really know...I don't have one.). Also...here is the info from Epsons website:
*****************************************************************
Epson 3800
MicroPiezo® AMC™ Print Head Technology
One-inch wide, high performance print head offers a maximum resolution of 2880 x 1440
Produces variable sized droplets as small as 3.5 picoliters to greatly decrease print times, while optimizing photographic quality
Extremely sharp and accurate placement of ink droplets consistently delivers outstanding photographic print quality print to print
Learn More >
Accuphoto™ HD Screening Technology
Highly precise screening technology uses a radical new algorithm to determine dot placement, resulting in an extreme level of photographic image quality
Produces extremely fine photographic prints, even in bi-directional and lower resolution print modes
Compensates for various ink densities between resolutions, allowing for a single ICC™ profile to be used per media type
Epson 4880
Eight-Channel MicroPiezo® AMC™ Print Head with Ink Repelling Coating Technology
Print head design capable of handling eight separate ink channels
One-inch wide high-performance print head with 180 nozzles per channel
New ink repelling coating to dramatically reduce nozzle clogging
Epson AccuPhoto™ HD Screening Technology
Advanced screening algorithm resulting in prints with superior color and clarity
Maximum resolution of 2880 x 1440 dpi for incredibly sharp text and line art
Extremely accurate fine blends and photographic transitions
*****************************************************************
What I can tell you is that when I was buying my printer I went to my local Calumet photo and they printed out samples from each. I couldn't really tell the difference in the samples that I received; but they were different papers, different photos, etc. But what I can say is that the prints from my 4880 TOTALLY ROCK!!
:-)
Cheers....
Todd in Chicago
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"Thank you for the replies everyone. How long can the ink in these printers last before having to be replaced? Also, how do either of these printers cope being turned off then back on? I could easily see myself only printing with one of these printers max say 2-3 instances every couple of weeks."
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3800...
Steve
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"Thank you for the replies everyone. How long can the ink in these printers last before having to be replaced? Also, how do either of these printers cope being turned off then back on? I could easily see myself only printing with one of these printers max say 2-3 instances every couple of weeks."
*************
3800...
Steve
I can't claim very extensive experience, but I've had no problems with my 3800 over the last 9 months even when it's not been used for as much as three weeks. Quick nozzle check, once a cleaning cycle, then it's up and running. I switch it off when it's not going to be used for 24 hours, as advised by Eric Chan.
Jeremy
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"Thank you for the replies everyone. How long can the ink in these printers last before having to be replaced? Also, how do either of these printers cope being turned off then back on? I could easily see myself only printing with one of these printers max say 2-3 instances every couple of weeks."
*************
3800...
Steve
I am also interested in purchasing a 3800 but am reluctant to buy a printer that was introduced in 2006! Does anyone have an idea if Epson is going to replace it?
thanks
Barbie
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I am also interested in purchasing a 3800 but am reluctant to buy a printer that was introduced in 2006! Does anyone have an idea if Epson is going to replace it?
thanks
Barbie
I wouldn't let that bother you. Everything I have read says this printer is great.
For those who have worked with the Canon IPF 5100 and 6100, if you are printing smaller then 8x10 what are your options? Do the photos have to be manually cut?
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I'm sure that this has been asked before and it seems like these are both fantastic printers. I have space for both in my office and the prices of the two are currently very similar with the rebates. Any recommendations for either one of these printers?
Thanks,
Dave
I have the 4800 and the 3800. If I could only have one, it would have to be the 3800. My printing is probably 50/50 matte/gloss and I'd go broke in a hurry switching between the two with the 4800. Turn the 4800 off for any period of time and I'll guarantee you'll cringe at the sound of the ink pump running while it does its startup routine.... OTOH, if you want a printer you can turn on at dawn, run prints through all day and turn off at dark day in and day out, the 4800/4880 is your best bet. The vacuum platen is a real plus, I get almost no blotches on leading/trailing edges of thick papers compared to the 3800. Ink is cheaper in the larger carts but the printer uses more in routine maintenance than the 3800, so I figure it's a wash. If you switch blacks frequently, I'd have to give the 3800 the thumbs up.
If you want to print 4x6/5x7, the 3800 is your only choice. If you want to print off rolls, it's the 4880.
Like I said, if I could only have one, the 3800 wins for casual usage. For high duty-cycle printing on either matte or gloss(but not both), it's the 4880.
I'm just glad I don't have to choose.....
Bill
P.S. If it comes to absolute IQ, I'd have to give the edge to the 3800 because of the dithering. But you're picking at nits between the two...
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I have the 4800 and the 3800. If I could only have one, it would have to be the 3800. My printing is probably 50/50 matte/gloss and I'd go broke in a hurry switching between the two with the 4800. Turn the 4800 off for any period of time and I'll guarantee you'll cringe at the sound of the ink pump running while it does its startup routine.... OTOH, if you want a printer you can turn on at dawn, run prints through all day and turn off at dark day in and day out, the 4800/4880 is your best bet. The vacuum platen is a real plus, I get almost no blotches on leading/trailing edges of thick papers compared to the 3800. Ink is cheaper in the larger carts but the printer uses more in routine maintenance than the 3800, so I figure it's a wash. If you switch blacks frequently, I'd have to give the 3800 the thumbs up.
If you want to print 4x6/5x7, the 3800 is your only choice. If you want to print off rolls, it's the 4880.
Like I said, if I could only have one, the 3800 wins for casual usage. For high duty-cycle printing on either matte or gloss(but not both), it's the 4880.
I'm just glad I don't have to choose.....
Bill
P.S. If it comes to absolute IQ, I'd have to give the edge to the 3800 because of the dithering. But you're picking at nits between the two...
Thanks for the insight, anyone have any comments on the Canons?
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Hi Dave...
LOL.....I have a unique solution.....I haven't really printed on matte yet!! I do have a roll of Epson UltraSmooth Fine Art 50 ft but haven't used it yet. So far very happy with the Premium Luster I've been using. I also have two boxes of the 17x22 Epson Exhibition Fiber that I'll need to try one of these days. The ink switch is a consideration for some, but for now I've seemed to manage around it.
Also, I never turn my printer off. I believe that is what pretty much everyone recommends and I have yet to have a problem with it (I've not had the printer 1 whole year yet) and my understanding is that is uses very little power so I'm not sure what anyone is gaining by turning it off when it is not in use.
Just my .01......(I'm not really qualified to give a full .02.... ;-) )
I understand the the 3800 is also an awesome printer, but at the time I was looking; I figured in the extra ink I was getting with the 4880 (can the 3800 use 220 carts?), the ability to eventually use 220 carts (I'm still on my starter set), the ability to use roll paper, and at the time I bought my 4880; 3 free rolls of paper! The price difference between the two was not that great after those considerations.
Cheers....
Todd in Chicago
How do you deal with switching inks on your 4880?
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"Also, I never turn my printer off. I believe that is what pretty much everyone recommends and I have yet to have a problem with it (I've not had the printer 1 whole year yet) and my understanding is that is uses very little power so I'm not sure what anyone is gaining by turning it off when it is not in use."
*********
(snip)
The frequency of this special cleaning mode is controlled by the printer itself. It will be done occasionally even if the printer is left on; however, it is not done frequently enough if the printer is simply left idling while powered on and not being used. Hence, the Epson engineer's recommendation is to turn the printer off when the time between two successive print runs is longer than a day.
(Taken from Eric Chan's FAQs)
Steve
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"Also, I never turn my printer off. I believe that is what pretty much everyone recommends and I have yet to have a problem with it (I've not had the printer 1 whole year yet) and my understanding is that is uses very little power so I'm not sure what anyone is gaining by turning it off when it is not in use."
*********
(snip)
The frequency of this special cleaning mode is controlled by the printer itself. It will be done occasionally even if the printer is left on; however, it is not done frequently enough if the printer is simply left idling while powered on and not being used. Hence, the Epson engineer's recommendation is to turn the printer off when the time between two successive print runs is longer than a day.
(Taken from Eric Chan's FAQs)
Steve
Do any companies out there offer sample printed images on both matte and luster paper? I'm sure that would help out a lot.
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I have the 3800 and have had a 4000, and done tests of the 4880.
At the moment I'm finding that the 3800 has some unexpected advantages that counterbalance the lack of roll paper.
1) You can feed thick media through the front loading slot. I've managed to put some quite unconventional media through, saving me money.
2) As said, the ability to print small sheets is great, as I print 5"x7" promos, and this printer does these well.
3) Sheet paper feeding so far has been very reliable.
4) Easy switching from matt to gloss media is really useful.
In terms of print quality I can't see any real difference between the 3800 and 4800. Upgrading from a 2400 was essentially free. When I took into account rebates, the price I got on Ebay for the 2400 and the extra ink that comes with the 3800 I think the upgrade only cost me about £100. (But its a business purchase so I can claim VAT sales tax back, it would be more expensive if one had to pay the VAT).
I'm very happy with this printer.
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Do any companies out there offer sample printed images on both matte and luster paper? I'm sure that would help out a lot.
We do offer the printing of sample images on the Epson 7880, Canon iPF6100, and the Z3100.
Sorry, I don't have the 3800 in our demo facility.
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The biggest print quality issue I have with the 3800 is the infamous "pizza wheel marks" caused by the ejection rollers spoked wheels. Any pro model above the 3800 uses a vacuum system instead of wheels. Eric Chan's FAQ shows a workaround to eliminate the marks at the expense of borderless printing. Unfortunately, the process is difficult to execute well and is a hack - no offense to how awesome he and his FAQ is though.
My opinion is if the 3800 didn't create these marks, it would be the most phenomenal deal for a pro printer on the market; but amidst them it's the best (and most expensive) prosumer printer on the market. I can only imagine how embarrassing it must be for an artist to get called out on these marks by a gallery or customer. Probably just as embarrassing as getting an Exhibition Fiber print returned for developing micro cracks over a short period of time.
I know I sound critical but it's such a shame to shortfall incredible technology with ignorant design flaws. Epson has the best printers in terms of value and they've really done wonders for the photo market, but jeez... fix the stupid issues!
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I've had the 3800 for just over a year. It gets very occasional use, maybe once or twice a month. I've never seen the pizza wheel marks (and I do know what to look for -- I had constant problems with these marks on my 1200 Photo printer.) I've had to do a nozzle clean twice in 14 months, and each time a single cleaning cycle did the trick.
Recalling my darkroom days, I'm still amazed every time I go downstairs and print a beautiful 16x20 with very little effort.
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Thanks for the insight, anyone have any comments on the Canons?
I read most of the posts and it sounds like you should be armed for a decision. btw: Canons have a lot of negative press on their user interface to the driver. Canon is the gorilla for DLSRs, Epson is it for printers. Epson was my first printer (on that old 8086) not counting the thermal of the TI700....whoops flashback..... and an Epson 3800 now turns out to be my best printer ever.
I had a REALLY difficult time when considering between the 3800 and the 4880 because using the best price from B&H including shipping after rebates the price difference was only $110.oo ....but I still chose the 3800 for all the same reasons you see above. I print 3 - 5 a week and leave it on connected to the network. btw: If using network be sure to download the new drivers and don't install the software from the CD... there's some SNMP issues with the CD version.
I seriously doubt you'll find yourself second guessing the decision of the 3800 over the 4880 even if you would double your pound per dollar ratio for only $110.oo I doubt there are many casual users wanting to have a ~100lb printer and be forced to load rolls of paper, cross cut their pictures and swap cartridges when changing media? not me anyway.
pull that trigger! I hope you enjoy it as much as I am!
->N
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All...
I also just checked B&H (12/1/08) and found this pricing:
B&H
Epson 4880 ($480 rebate)
$1664 - 480 = $1184
You pay for shipping
Epson 3800
$1104
Free shipping
So for about $80 more (plus shipping) you can have the 4880 vs. the 3800.
I would go so far as to say that really takes "cost" out of the equation for deciding which of these two FABULOUS printers to get.
For myself, the 4880 has:
Vivid Magenta inkset
Ability to use roll paper
More ink comes with the printer (more ink is used in startup though)
Ink repelling coating to (theoretically) provide less clogging
Ability to use 220ml ink carts
LOL! Sounds like you can't miss with either of the two printers. Obviously the 4880 fairly large printer, so that consideration must be made.
What a fun problem to have!
Best of luck...
Todd in Chicago
I read most of the posts and it sounds like you should be armed for a decision. btw: Canons have a lot of negative press on their user interface to the driver. Canon is the gorilla for DLSRs, Epson is it for printers. Epson was my first printer (on that old 8086) not counting the thermal of the TI700....whoops flashback..... and an Epson 3800 now turns out to be my best printer ever.
I had a REALLY difficult time when considering between the 3800 and the 4880 because using the best price from B&H including shipping after rebates the price difference was only $110.oo ....but I still chose the 3800 for all the same reasons you see above. I print 3 - 5 a week and leave it on connected to the network. btw: If using network be sure to download the new drivers and don't install the software from the CD... there's some SNMP issues with the CD version.
I seriously doubt you'll find yourself second guessing the decision of the 3800 over the 4880 even if you would double your pound per dollar ratio for only $110.oo I doubt there are many casual users wanting to have a ~100lb printer and be forced to load rolls of paper, cross cut their pictures and swap cartridges when changing media? not me anyway.
pull that trigger! I hope you enjoy it as much as I am!
->N
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Do some more research. A friend in town bought the 4800 last year and loves it. BUT, it did only come with starter cartridges of about 30ml each to get the printer charged and start using. He then had to buy over $600 of ink in a short time to get up to full production. That is how Epson shipped it. If the same is true for the 4880, then that should be factored into the cost. Can anyone with a 4880 verify?
The 3800 does come with a full set of 9 - 80ml cartridges. That's about $450+ of ink included.
The 4880 as well as the 4800, and 4000 before it all ship with 110 ml cartridges (so does the 7880 and 9880). AFAIK there's never been an epson starter cartridge. Somewhat more than half the cart is left after charging/purging. The matte black is not included but the kit to switch blacks is. For the amount of printing the original poster describes the ink included with the printer will last a very long time, especially the darker colors. I use 1.5ml/foot as a rough guideline when calculating costs.
For the comment about the 3800 being from 2006 I think this is completely irrelevant. The 4880 is virtually identical mechanically to the 4800 and the 4000 and the small changes are incremental. Take the badges off and it's nearly impossible to tell them apart. But I would take this as ---> If it ain't broke don't fix it. The only real changes are the printhead, inkset, and OS software between the 4xxx models.
For the choice between the 3800 and 4880 I think it depends on how you envision using it in the future. Personally I haven't noticed a real-world difference with the VM ink and think it's a red herring to encourage upgrading. The three big differences I see are 1) roll paper, 2) cost of black swaps, and 3) expected lifespan. If the usage will remain relatively low and you have no need for roll media then you might be better off with the 3800 and the relatively inexpensive switches between matte and gloss blacks. If there is a plan or hope to ramp up printing in the near future, particularly for professional printing you might be best served with the 4880. If occasional experimenting and personal printing are the only planned usage then the 3800 might be the more economical choice in the long run.
For the ink switching I'll make a blatant generalization and say that most people seem to go through a stage where they try many different types of papers and then settle on a few that they prefer and will use a single paper for almost all of the finished photo prints. I'll go further out on a limb and say that most people's preference will boil down to gloss or matte and not a lot of both. Different story if you are printing professionally of course, but even then it's a pain in the butt to deal with more than 3 or 4 types of media. As a photographer that does my own printing I use 2 papers and one canvas almost exclusively.
Personally I have a 4880 that replaced a 4000, gloss ink only. I have a 9880 on matte ink only. I've never switched blacks in either printer. The epson printers are extremely well built, a proven design, and can be expected to run for several years printing all day long. The 4000 printed the equivalent of 18,000 8x10's over almost 4 years without a service call. It is big and bulky though and if you intend to switch back and forth between black inks frequently the 3800 could be much cheaper in the long run. Though I use Canon equipment for photography the reliability and support problems with the ipf scared me off. I don't think HP has a model in this league.
Take all of the above for what it's worth, YMMV.
Good luck and happy printing!
Doug
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Doug...
Your points are well stated (I cannot comment on the HP or Canon products).
My 4880 also came with 110ml carts; which equate to roughly $656 worth of ink.
Like I said....this actually is a fun problem to have; deciding on the 3800 vs. 4880; I agonized over this very same decision myself in March of this year. Epson had a roll paper offer (buy 2 get one free) which also played into my decision.
Once I got the 4880, I never once thought I should have gotten the 3800 instead because the 4880 rocks (as does the 3800). I also had to buy a piece of furniture to hold the 4880, but would have had to do the same for the 3800 anyway (in my case).
I really do agree with your comments regarding the ink switching.
As far as not making that many prints, if you buy roll paper, why not simply make sure you make a print every other week? Keeps your printer from clogging up, creates some nice small prints for testing and potentially giving away or selling. I have a roll of 10 inch Premium Luster specifically for this task.
Have fun, shoot well, and make really cool prints!
Todd in Chicago
The 4880 as well as the 4800, and 4000 before it all ship with 110 ml cartridges (so does the 7880 and 9880). AFAIK there's never been an epson starter cartridge. Somewhat more than half the cart is left after charging/purging. The matte black is not included but the kit to switch blacks is. For the amount of printing the original poster describes the ink included with the printer will last a very long time, especially the darker colors. I use 1.5ml/foot as a rough guideline when calculating costs.
For the comment about the 3800 being from 2006 I think this is completely irrelevant. The 4880 is virtually identical mechanically to the 4800 and the 4000 and the small changes are incremental. Take the badges off and it's nearly impossible to tell them apart. But I would take this as ---> If it ain't broke don't fix it. The only real changes are the printhead, inkset, and OS software between the 4xxx models.
For the choice between the 3800 and 4880 I think it depends on how you envision using it in the future. Personally I haven't noticed a real-world difference with the VM ink and think it's a red herring to encourage upgrading. The three big differences I see are 1) roll paper, 2) cost of black swaps, and 3) expected lifespan. If the usage will remain relatively low and you have no need for roll media then you might be better off with the 3800 and the relatively inexpensive switches between matte and gloss blacks. If there is a plan or hope to ramp up printing in the near future, particularly for professional printing you might be best served with the 4880. If occasional experimenting and personal printing are the only planned usage then the 3800 might be the more economical choice in the long run.
For the ink switching I'll make a blatant generalization and say that most people seem to go through a stage where they try many different types of papers and then settle on a few that they prefer and will use a single paper for almost all of the finished photo prints. I'll go further out on a limb and say that most people's preference will boil down to gloss or matte and not a lot of both. Different story if you are printing professionally of course, but even then it's a pain in the butt to deal with more than 3 or 4 types of media. As a photographer that does my own printing I use 2 papers and one canvas almost exclusively.
Personally I have a 4880 that replaced a 4000, used exclusively with gloss ink. I have a 9880 on matte ink only. I've never switched blacks in either printer. The epson printers are extremely well built, a proven design, and can be expected to run for several years printing all day long. The 4000 printed the equivalent of 18,000 8x10's over almost 4 years without a service call. It is big and bulky though and if you intend to switch back and forth between black inks frequently the 3800 could be much cheaper in the long run. Though I use Canon equipment for photography the reliability and support problems with the ipf scared me off. I don't think HP has a model in this league.
Take all of the above for what it's worth, YMMV.
Good luck and happy printing!
Doug
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I have yet to see the pizza wheel marks. I am just printing on luster and matte papers. Do you have a 3800, and have you experienced the marks first hand or just spreading the "word"? I read about the pizza wheel marks but still bought the printer. I have yet to see any imperfections in the prints the 3800 produces.
The 3800 has been on the market for several years. Perhaps the issue was more evident early on and not so much now, I don't know for sure. The printer seems pro enough for this pro.
Pizza Wheel marks are a known issue with the 3800, there's tons of documentation on it, yes I own a 3800 and I'm not spreading the "word" (or gospel as you might say in Nashville); you can read more about it at...
http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...eels_workaround (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/faq.html#pizza_wheels_workaround)
... I mostly notice the issue on Photo Rag Pearl and Gold Fiber Silk stocks. If you have a 3800 and one of these stocks, print a solid black square at least 8 square inches large using either the manual rear or top feed slots. Go out into bright sunlight and hold the print out half a foot in front of your chest. Look down toward the surface. See the pizza wheel marks glinting as pairs of vertical, dotted rows about 4 inches between sets. Say "well I'll be darned", go back inside, start pulling all your prints out and run your pizza-trained eyes across them without going back outside. I'm sure you can find the issue on other stocks however I'd start with the one's I'll guarantee will do it so you know what to scan for on others.
You can eliminate the marks using the front feed, but you need a backing sheet to maintain print quality on your typical stock weights. Problem is this technique exposes you to head strikes; in short because you're using the front feed in a unconventional manner.
The rest of Epson's pro line uses a vacuum system to handle the job those ejection rollers do in the 3800, thus there are no marks from other models. I'm guessing the lack of this system lowered Epson's manufacturing costs enough to offer entry-level pricing on the line. Or maybe there wasn't enough room for it in the 3800. Who knows. It's the one drawback that I think officially puts "sumer" at the end of pro.
Now I see the 3800 and 4800 are almost the same price. Doesn't that burn us up amidst the issue.
If you don't mind losing borderless printing and are out of warranty, you can also physically remove the rollers. Here's the link covering that technique...
http://www.inkjetart.com/pizza/ (http://www.inkjetart.com/pizza/)
Good Luck.